[BBC] In China, Uighurs 'moved into factory forced labour' for foreign brands Apple, Google, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony

[m.i.s.]

Friendly reminder that Nintendo is moving some Switch production to Vietnam. I'm not sure if Sony or MS said anything on their part, but Nintendo is one comapny doing SOMETHING at least.

Nintendo moves some Switch production to Vietnam

Nintendo is moving some production of the Switch to Vietnam, to decrease its dependence on China for manufacturing.The …

www.gamesindustry.biz

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Umm, NSW production in Vietnam predates reports of China's abuses of the Uighurs and others. And it was done to diversify and and mitigate risk of Trump imposing tarrifs on Chinese goods.

I'm a little perplexed on why individuals would think a publicly-listed corporation like Nintendo would behave differently just because they're... Nintendo. They're just as ruthless as any other multi national company.

Gone are the days when Yamauchi resurrected the video game console industry and S/NES were manufactured in Japan. And so to is my custom or any other dealings with this company.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

New horrific news

China forcing birth control on Uighurs to suppress population, report says

China is forcing women to be sterilised or fitted with contraceptive devices in Xinjiang in an apparent attempt to limit the population of Muslim Uighurs, according to new research.

The report, by China scholar Adrian Zenz, has prompted international calls for the United Nations to investigate.

China denies the allegations in the report, calling them "baseless".

The state is already facing widespread criticism for holding Uighurs in detention camps.

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China forcing birth control on Uighurs to suppress population, report says

A report says China is carrying out a campaign of forced birth control to limit the minority group.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Mass_Pincup]

I guess it's hard to know what to do. You can't really pressure your government because all governments around the world are complicit in this*. And as a consumer, it feels like you don't really have a choice. Want a new PC? Good luck finding one with an ethical supply chain.

Things change when people are shown practical things they can do to enact that change.

*Heres a digression : I was in Sri Lanka recently (strongly recommend it. Lovely place) and I got off a train. The trains were built in the days of British colonialism.When I got off the train I drove down a new $1 billion highway built by a Chinese consortium. China is colonising the world economically. These things don't come free.

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You can, you just need to elect better people.

Raphael Glucksmann, a French EU deputy has been working for awhile in regards to China's treatment of Uighurs and managed to get Adidas and Lacoste (now working on getting Nike and will proceed with the 81 other companies left) to pull out of any working partnership involving the exploitation of Uighurs and to publicly release their measures.

They all will have to cave, it's just a shame that we have to pester them to care for human life.

 

[Scottoest]

A problem like this has more to do with the structure of the global economy, than the actions of any specific company involved with it. The way you fix it is to create changes that remove the perverse incentives for corporations to shave every last fraction of a penny off the cost of something in the first place. Otherwise you're just playing whack-a-mole with trying to shame companies forever.

The worst thing that ever happened to capitalism was the stock market, and the accompanying "need" of perpetual financial growth for publicly traded companies.

 

[Deleted member 2595]

New horrific news

China forcing birth control on Uighurs to suppress population, report says

A report says China is carrying out a campaign of forced birth control to limit the minority group.

www.bbc.co.uk

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Jesus Christ.

This year I was going to create substantial, ongoing donations to multiple charities in an attempt to offset all my technology's significant ethical footprint... but is there anywhere you can donate to help with this shit?

Short of completely retraining in a completely different career and going back to square one, I can't get rid of all this tech.

 

[SmashN'Grab]

New horrific news

China forcing birth control on Uighurs to suppress population, report says

A report says China is carrying out a campaign of forced birth control to limit the minority group.

www.bbc.co.uk

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I strongly suggest you look into Adrian Zenz, the author of this report. He is a fundamentalist Christian who believes that godless, communist China is the Antichrist that will bring the rapture, which in his view is the fall of capitalism. This is extreme neoconservative thinking, and not at all credible.

The BBC are just relaying this information, it does not come from them and the source is extremely dubious.

 

[datschge]

I strongly suggest you look into Adrian Zenz, the author of this report. He is a fundamentalist Christian who believes that godless, communist China is the Antichrist that will bring the rapture, which in his view is the fall of capitalism. This is extreme neoconservative thinking, and not at all credible.

The BBC are just relaying this information, it does not come from them and the source is extremely dubious.

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Looking at his report itself helps as well, he mostly (claims to) quotes official Chinese numbers which should be neutral per se (if not misleading by China instead). Not sure why BBC doesn't include any links, The Guardian at least linked his twitter which includes a summary.

 

[Gen X]

This is shocking news although I was under the impression it had been going on for ages, it's just when you read that people were moved from a camp to a sweat shop, I had no idea. Shame people and corporations aren't as passionate at this as they are to pulling down statues and censoring TV shows.

 

[AldabraRail]

is this just a "let's report anti-chinese propaganda" thread now?

 

[Khanimus]

is this just a "let's report anti-chinese propaganda" thread now?

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So it shouldn't be discussed how an oppressed population being used for factory labor is being treated?

 

[AldabraRail]

So it shouldn't be discussed how an oppressed population being used for factory labor is being treated?

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talking about the bogus sterilization story that OP posted, not the story that started the thread

 

[datschge]

talking about the bogus sterilization story that OP posted, not the story that started the thread

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What parts of the statistics are bogus and in what way? A quick check of the listed sources seem to back up the numbers.

 

[Menx64]

The CCP is so powerful and people care so little I don't see how this if ever will change...

That has more or less been China's strategy in several African countries, too. I know there are several developmental projects being funded in Kenya. Usually, that means a Chinese manager supervising low-wage Kenyan workers, a reflection of the racism and discrimination also being imported.

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You think they don't know? Those countries do know what the Chinese intensions are, but developing countries are taking them anyways since the Chinese are at least doing something. There is no free lunch, but don't paint developing countries are ignorants. African and Latin American countries know Europe and the USA look at us like third rate citizens.
The Chinese propaganda was working flawlessly until Covid19.

 

[EagleClaw]

New horrific news

China forcing birth control on Uighurs to suppress population, report says

A report says China is carrying out a campaign of forced birth control to limit the minority group.

www.bbc.co.uk

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China has a two-child-policy for every citizen, just saying...

two-child policy (wikipedia)

 

[AldabraRail]

What parts of the statistics are bogus and in what way? A quick check of the listed sources seem to back up the numbers.

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the statistics themselves aren't bogus, it's the conclusions drawn from them. the jamestown foundation is a pretty big conservative thinktank, whose work focuses on inflaming western skepticism towards nation states it considers dangerous, namely China and Russia. not to say the governments of these states don't deserve skepticism, but the jamestown foundation's goal, as I see it, is to exaggerate claims of their human rights abuses in an attempt to continue western dominance/imperialism the world over. in this case uighurs are used in much the same way the kurds in iraq are, to justify western intervention in the region.

zenz is a truly out there dude, and it's hard to take him seriously. these two tweet threads do a good job of explaining why the way this is being reported is suspect:

https://twitter.com/Louis_Allday/status/1277674495373979651

https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1277796499750105090

to be clear, I am not trying to take away from the chinese government's treatment of the uighar population, just the way the information is being framed (and in some cases, manipulated)

 

[datschge]

the statistics themselves aren't bogus, it's the conclusions drawn from them. the jamestown foundation is a pretty big conservative thinktank, whose work focuses on inflaming western skepticism towards nation states it considers dangerous, namely China and Russia. not to say the governments of these states don't deserve skepticism, but the jamestown foundation's goal, as I see it, is to exaggerate claims of their human rights abuses in an attempt to continue western dominance/imperialism the world over. in this case uighurs are used in much the same way the kurds in iraq are, to justify western intervention in the region.

zenz is a truly out there dude, and it's hard to take him seriously. these two tweet threads do a good job of explaining why the way this is being reported is suspect:

https://twitter.com/Louis_Allday/status/1277674495373979651

https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1277796499750105090

to be clear, I am not trying to take away from the chinese government's treatment of the uighar population, just the way the information is being framed (and in some cases, manipulated)

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Thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

[GameBytes]

China has a two-child-policy for every citizen, just saying...

two-child policy (wikipedia)

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And they used to have a one child policy. And this genius idea of the almighty know all CCP, along with some other great policies, has resulted in them having a lot more men than women. Thus a lot of men endup not getting married and a lot less children being born...

 

[MegaXZero]

the statistics themselves aren't bogus, it's the conclusions drawn from them. the jamestown foundation is a pretty big conservative thinktank, whose work focuses on inflaming western skepticism towards nation states it considers dangerous, namely China and Russia. not to say the governments of these states don't deserve skepticism, but the jamestown foundation's goal, as I see it, is to exaggerate claims of their human rights abuses in an attempt to continue western dominance/imperialism the world over. in this case uighurs are used in much the same way the kurds in iraq are, to justify western intervention in the region.

zenz is a truly out there dude, and it's hard to take him seriously. these two tweet threads do a good job of explaining why the way this is being reported is suspect:

https://twitter.com/Louis_Allday/status/1277674495373979651

https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1277796499750105090

to be clear, I am not trying to take away from the chinese government's treatment of the uighar population, just the way the information is being framed (and in some cases, manipulated)

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The first twitter account you are quoting as doing a good job is doing it's best to downplay the entirety of crisis with the Uighurs. Concerning China, he says that " it's NOT aggressive, it's NOT imperialist & it's NOT running "concentration camps".

Also he posits that it is part of a USA conspiracy to make China look bad, the AP is collaborating, and that the CIA is part of this. They also support the idea that's China's response is somewhat responsible due to "terrorism" from Uighurs.

So nah, I don't think we should trust someone like this to tell us if the reporting is bad. China is trying to commit genocide, period.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

China has a two-child-policy for every citizen, just saying...

two-child policy (wikipedia)

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Thats unrelated to what's happening with this human rights violation

 

[AldabraRail]

The first twitter account you are quoting as doing a good job is doing it's best to downplay the entirety of crisis with the Uighurs. Concerning China, he says that " it's NOT aggressive, it's NOT imperialist & it's NOT running "concentration camps".

Also he posits that it is part of a USA conspiracy to make China look bad, the AP is collaborating, and that the CIA is part of this. They also support the idea that's China's response is somewhat responsible due to "terrorism" from Uighurs.

So nah, I don't think we should trust someone like this to tell us the real story.

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that first quote you mentioned is far too lenient towards the Chinese government, particularly in terms of its imperialist history and their reeducation camps (though in terms of aggression I find it hard to argue that it rivals the power grabs of western nations, particularly the US) imo

I think it's important not to think of the efforts of big conservative think-tanks as "conspiracies". there is material/political gain to be had from cold war with China. it's irresponsible of US press outlets to report this info in the way it has, but par for the course. the CIA is involved, as is in all things involving US foreign policy. I also don't think "but unfortunate truth is pan-Turkic, separatist and Islamist groups e.g. Turkistan Islamic Movement have committed major terror attacks and supported by western intelligence. Many Uyghurs also fighting for IS in Syria" is the same as saying "the ccp is completely justified in their treatment of these ethnic minorities in their country".

honestly, I don't feel as though I know enough to draw any super strong conclusions about this issue other than zenz is an idiot and journalists reporting his finding without criticism/research are irresponsible

 

[MegaXZero]

I think it's important not to think of the efforts of big conservative think-tanks as "conspiracies". there is material/political gain to be had from cold war with China. it's irresponsible of US press outlets to report this info in the way it has, but par for the course. the CIA is involved, as is in all things involving US foreign policy. I also don't think "but unfortunate truth is pan-Turkic, separatist and Islamist groups e.g. Turkistan Islamic Movement have committed major terror attacks and supported by western intelligence. Many Uyghurs also fighting for IS in Syria" is the same as saying "the ccp is completely justified in their treatment of these ethnic minorities in their country".

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If the response to "China is committing genocide" is "but those minorities are fighting for ISIS" it's already too far.

honestly, I don't feel as though I know enough to draw any super strong conclusions about this issue other than zenz is an idiot and journalists reporting his finding without criticism/research are irresponsible

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I'd like to trust the AP's reporting given they say they did an "AP investigation" and also interviewed people and victims. Don't assume AP's story was just a plug and chug of someone else's work.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

It continues. We doing forced sterilizations now.

China cuts Uighur births with IUDs, abortion, sterilization

The Chinese government is taking draconian measures to slash birth rates among Uighurs and other minorities as part of a sweeping campaign to curb its Muslim population, even as it encourages some of the country’s Han majority to have more children.

apnews.com

The Chinese government is taking draconian measures to slash birth rates among Uighurs and other minorities as part of a sweeping campaign to curb its Muslim population, even as it encourages some of the country's Han majority to have more children.

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[Bear Patrol]

Absolute evil.

I'm absolutely doing my best to limit what items I buy and I certainly am not buying any further consoles or games from any platform holder who has not dis-associated from thIs inhuman practice. Ditto for phones or electronic components, as far as I can possibly ascertain.

It costs more but I sleep better at night.

 

[jeelybeans]

It's been months since the OP. We need statements from all three console manufacturers. It is overdue. Or let the hashtags start spreading that these companies are bringing back slavery.

 

[Uthred]

Why is this no longer pinned?

 

[Sander VF]

And bump.

 

[DFG]

Why is this no longer pinned?

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Because people don't care about them. Social media doesn't care about them either. It barely gets covered. Speaks a lot what this forum considers important.

Modern day genocide and people don't care.

 

[Xpike]

Why is this no longer pinned?

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gotta buy stuff cheap

 

[Puroresu_kid]

It's been months since the OP. We need statements from all three console manufacturers. It is overdue. Or let the hashtags start spreading that these companies are bringing back slavery.

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When PS5 and xbox series are around the corner the sad reality is the majority of gamers would gladly turn a blind eye.

What is inexcusable however is gaming journalists have ignored this completly. They should be the ones pressing this story on all these console manufactures demanding answers.

This story only highlighted just how bad gaming journalism is.

 

[Outrun]

When PS5 and xbox series are around the corner the sad reality is the majority of gamers would gladly turn a blind eye.

What is inexcusable however is gaming journalists have ignored this completly. They should be the ones pressing this story on all these console manufactures demanding answers.

This story only highlighted just how bad gaming journalism is.

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100%

I am in Automation. Automate the shit out of production asap, and leave China.

 

[jeelybeans]

When PS5 and xbox series are around the corner the sad reality is the majority of gamers would gladly turn a blind eye.

What is inexcusable however is gaming journalists have ignored this completly. They should be the ones pressing this story on all these console manufactures demanding answers.

This story only highlighted just how bad gaming journalism is.

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That's a really good point. In any other industry journalists would really be doing the work of journalism. There's a lot of work before we get qualified investigative journalism in this industry.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

100%

I am in Automation. Automate the shit out of production asap, and leave China.

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PlayStation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

Depending on how well Sony transitions to PS5 manufacturing, those nodes well for both price and build quality. And it means any price reduction cam be attributed to reduces productiom costs vice a Sony subsidy, so they cam focus their resources on game development and other Playstation...

www.resetera.com

This is a good look. I still believe Sony are using Foxconn for volume though. They would need to use another partner.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

PlayStation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

Depending on how well Sony transitions to PS5 manufacturing, those nodes well for both price and build quality. And it means any price reduction cam be attributed to reduces productiom costs vice a Sony subsidy, so they cam focus their resources on game development and other Playstation...

www.resetera.com

This is a good look. I still believe Sony are using Foxconn for volume though. They would need to use another partner.

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let's hope they find one asap. and everyone else in the tech industry for that matter.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

let's hope they find one asap. and everyone else in the tech industry for that matter.

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Agreed

 

[Deleted member 16876]

Good to hear about robotic factories.

Hopefully they go all in on it soon.

 

[Master Milk]

Why is this no longer pinned?

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the thought is that people mentally ignore pinned threads, which I think is true. I couldn't tell you what the currently pinned threads are, or how long they've been there

 

[Uthred]

the thought is that people mentally ignore pinned threads, which I think is true. I couldn't tell you what the currently pinned threads are, or how long they've been there

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While it may be true they almost certainly ignore threads they never have the chance to see more.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

U.S. sanctions Chinese officials over Uighur human rights abuses

It marks a significant escalation in the Trump administration's response to human rights abuses in Xinjiang.

www.axios.com

The Treasury Department announcedThursday that the U.S. has sanctioned four Chinese Communist Party officials and the Xinjiang Public Security Bureau for human rights abuses against Uighur Muslims and other ethnic minorities in Xinjiang.

Why it matters: The sanctions designations, pursuant to the Global Magnitsky Act passed by Congress in 2016, mark a significant escalation in the Trump administration's response to the Chinese government's detainment of over 1 million Uighurs in internment camps.

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[VeePs]

Seems like Apple is making a shift, and looking towards production in India.

Apple Plans Move Out of China

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/apple-supplier-foxconn-to-invest-us-1-billion-in-india-sources-12922400 Foxconn plans to invest up to US$1 billion to expand a factory in southern India where the Taiwanese contract manufacturer assembles Apple iPhones, two sources said. The move...

www.resetera.com

 

[Messofanego]

U.S. sanctions Chinese officials over Uighur human rights abuses

It marks a significant escalation in the Trump administration's response to human rights abuses in Xinjiang.

www.axios.com

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Good to hear, at least the Treasury dept and Pompeo are not completely evil.

 

[Hey Please]

Good to hear, at least the Treasury dept and Pompeo are not completely evil.

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This is more about scoring low hanging political points for the upcoming election instead, given the abuse has been happening for well over a year now. Remember that pompeo threatened the employees of ICC and their families a few months ago in retaliation for ICC looking into potential US war crimes in Afghanistan.

I am not discounting the resultant good that it seeks to accomplish (and hopefully will, given CCP's unrepentant hostility towards the minority that now meets the definition of Genocide per UN) but these people themselves are corrupt degenerates.

 

[Thronazuug]

Finally some good updates. It's been months and gaming news still being silent is an unfortunate stain.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

More drone footage shows Uighurs, sitting bound and blindfolded, loaded on train cars

What in the world is the CCP doing? Poor people.

www.resetera.com

Where is the international community?!

 

[Deleted member 5028]

The BBC called out the Chinese Ambassador to the UK on this live on television yesterday who claims this video is misrepresentative of what's happening.

 

[Thronazuug]

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver had a video yesterday.
Volkswagen's Ceo response was utterly disgusting and shameless. Reminder of how gaming industry don't have real journalist like the person who pushes the issue to the CEO without backing off. Shame we have mostly PR people posing as journalist.

Since March, absolute silence.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

Shame we have mostly PR people posing as journalist.

Since March, absolute silence.

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The silence is deafening and people have clearly been made aware of this thread existence.

The money isn't here though, you can't write a book on this topic that people will buy.

Blood, Sweat and Pixels could and should be taken more literally

 

[Thronazuug]

The silence is deafening and people have clearly been made aware of this thread existence.

The money isn't here though, you can't write a book on this topic that people will buy.

Blood, Sweat and Pixels could and should be taken more literally

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It is sad really.

Also interesting all those crunch news cease to exist as well, the perfect excuse and lure to raise the prices. "Give us ten bucks more then we will stop crunching. Pinky Promise" People were smart enough not to buy that BS as an excuse.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

I do wonder what the hell is going on in journalism.

They know this is happeening yet can't spare some hour to write about it? You can say it doesn't bring clicks but should it matter? Just posting an article reporting on it without being a huge piece is fine enough for now.

If more journalists talked about it, it would create a domino effect for sure.

Journalism ccontinues to be a god damned joke.

 

[sirap]

Funny how Valve gets shit on for something as innocuous as company vacations to Hawaii, but literal slave labor gets ignored.

Y'all can't even spare a 5-second tweet for this issue. Disgusting.

 

[Thronazuug]

The ironic part is I think, a journalists job to push the news to inform and make people notice the injustices in the industry, bring the truth out, was brought by Anita Sarkeesian and her team. They're not journalist or reporters by title and focusing on one angle of injustice but they did pretty good damn job and they got harrased for it (by gamergate shitheads)

But people with journalist/reporter title only to bring and help PR and marketing scoops. Then they're celebrated. Like Famitsu and Geoff(he doesnt even pretend though he is more organizer/personality) got in the Kojima game they were supposed to be objective.

Long story short game journalists doesnt really exist.