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BBC: Israeli Supreme Court upholds ruling to raze Palestinian Village to the ground.

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rstzkpf

Self-Requested Ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,072
Mods and admins are discussing it.
You can't be serious. This is beyond parody.

Seriously. Where does this end? Huh? Will you get banned if you say Trump and his family are Nazis because that includes Kusher? If you said the Trump administration, does the same thing happen? There are a lot of Jewish Republicans, for that matter. Is it going to become a bannable offense to say Republicans are Nazis?
 
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Oct 25, 2017
213
So for clarification. If I were to make an attributed quote of an holocaust survivor comparing modern Israel with Nazis is that bannable?

Or can I just continue to use Nazi analogues from anime?
 
Oct 28, 2017
12,905
I usually am against the constant Nazi comparisons posted here (at least more than most users) since from neogaf experience it seemed like any thread about Israel or someone Jewish doing anything was a race to see who could make a Nazi / Hitler comparison the fastest, no matter how innocuous the story was.

The total blanket ban (or the bans themselves) on any comparisons in these threads is getting a bit absurd though. While I understand wanting to prevent every Israel thread to descend into pure Nazi analogies, you get the sense that a news story could come out tomorrow showing Israel runs covert gas chambers and the staff would still not allow any Nazi comparisons. I get there's a balance between wanting to prevent drive by "huh...fourth reich..." posts and allowing for more understandable comparisons that a given news story would make many people think about, but staff has to admit there's a point at which some level of comparison beyond 'south african apartheid' might be apt for these weekly stories.
 

BronsonLee

Don't worry I'm on the case
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
10,501
Bottom line, guys, is you are welcome to have a nice long discussion about how Netanyahu is a far right genocidal piece of shit, or you can complain about not being able to use the specific term "Nazi" until threads get closed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,899
Bottom line, guys, is you are welcome to have a nice long discussion about how Netanyahu is a far right genocidal piece of shit, or you can complain about not being able to use the specific term "Nazi" until threads get closed.
Everything we do begins and ends with the community. A community that decided with one voice, without any direction from above, what it believed in and what it would stand for.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/674781/
 
Oct 27, 2017
942
Bottom line, guys, is you are welcome to have a nice long discussion about how Netanyahu is a far right genocidal piece of shit, or you can complain about not being able to use the specific term "Nazi" until threads get closed.
Moderation has still not addressed why there are exceptions to the rule (you can't call any Jewish person a Nazi but it's okay to call Milo and Miller, both Jewish, as Nazis). And if there are exceptions, why can't that exception be extended to a "genocidal piece of shit" like Netanyahu?
 

Deleted member 11093

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,095
Bottom line, guys, is you are welcome to have a nice long discussion about how Netanyahu is a far right genocidal piece of shit, or you can complain about not being able to use the specific term "Nazi" until threads get closed.
Just so we're clear, does this rule apply to cops, republicans and Trump voters? Because oftentimes people tend to lump all of those people into the Nazis category, or is it just Israel?
Genuinely wondering here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,533
Bottom line, guys, is you are welcome to have a nice long discussion about how Netanyahu is a far right genocidal piece of shit, or you can complain about not being able to use the specific term "Nazi" until threads get closed.
They said this place would be different.
 

BronsonLee

Don't worry I'm on the case
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
10,501
Hey, if you guys want to throw something my way that I can bring up and discuss with staff when I can, I’m all ears, or the circle can just keep going on and on. I’m more than happy to try and cut through the chaff to put something together.
 
Oct 27, 2017
942
Hey, if you guys want to throw something my way that I can bring up and discuss with staff when I can, I’m all ears, or the circle can just keep going on and on. I’m more than happy to try and cut through the chaff to put something together.
Moderation has still not addressed why there are exceptions to the rule (you can't call any Jewish person a Nazi but it's okay to call Milo and Miller, both Jewish, as Nazis). And if there are exceptions, why can't that exception be extended to a "genocidal piece of shit" like Netanyahu?
 
Just let it go, people. It's useless. Especially since we are given the threat that if we keep questioning it then the Israel-Palestinians threads will be closed again and again and again and again and again. It's basically, stop complaining, stop questioning us, stop criticizing our decision, or else.

Just... let it go.
 
Jan 15, 2018
1,282
Just let it go, people. It's useless. Especially since we are given the threat that if we keep questioning it then the Israel-Palestinians threads will be closed again and again and again and again and again. It's basically, stop complaining, stop questioning us, stop criticizing our decision, or else.

Just... let it go.
Yeah credibility was tanked the second BronsonLee made that post they just haven't realised it yet.
 
Oct 27, 2017
189
The Netherlands
In hindsight you can only laugh about it. Apparently with power weird things will happen to you that changes your believes.

OT: I still remember being positive somewhere in the mid nineties that peace would happen.
What happen Israel(don't mean everyone), that you came to believe in becoming evil.

"You don't make peace with friends. You make it with very unsavory enemies."

"We must think differently, look at things in a different way. Peace requires a world of new concepts, new definitions."

"We do not celebrate the death of our enemies"


Hey, if you guys want to throw something my way that I can bring up and discuss with staff when I can, I’m all ears, or the circle can just keep going on and on. I’m more than happy to try and cut through the chaff to put something together.
How about opening a thread were we can have a open discussion with the mod team? Where everyone can get his or her piece out?
 
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Oct 25, 2017
6,018
Singapore
Hey, if you guys want to throw something my way that I can bring up and discuss with staff when I can, I’m all ears, or the circle can just keep going on and on. I’m more than happy to try and cut through the chaff to put something together.
I feel pretty strongly about the situation in Israel and want to have more open discussion on news that happens in the region on this forum without it getting derailed/locked and I don't like seeing our community killing each other over debate over the usage of words getting people banned - especially when ultimately many of the people involved AGREE on the actual matter, just not on what words should be used. The situation is bad and this thread is another example why it is hard to have a discussion on Israel. I think there needs to be serious discussion on how moderators and admins feel about the issue and for a better solution to be found than just banning people or telling people to shut up. That would be very much appreciated.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,085
People, this is a far cry from GAF. Mods are being clear on what the policy is and aren't censoring/removing posts and banning anybody merely questioning the status quo.

Yes, there's obvious controversy here. I disagree with Matt, based on my observations, on how the generalization policy has been enforced up to this point. There is a question to how to handle figures individuals who, while Jewish, support anti-Semitic views and haven't been exempt up to now.

Granted, I agree that there's more apt comparisons. I recognize the history of the comparisons. Hell, I even feel that this board is way too eager to brand everything and anything they disagree with the Nazi label.

However, as points brought up earlier there are ripples to other subjects on this board that are now going to have to be addressed and/or clarified, as well as better enforced if things are going to be so tight here.

Again, probably may want to consider an FAQ or similar forum for reference, even if it's just a single OP post of a locked thread that can be updated if any clarifications are needed from a new case addressment or something.

That all said, this isn't some horrible affront and conspiracy.
 

Chikor

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
OT: I still remember being positive somewhere in the mid nineties that peace would happen.
What happen Israel(don't mean everyone), that you came to believe in becoming evil.

"You don't make peace with friends. You make it with very unsavory enemies."

"We must think differently, look at things in a different way. Peace requires a world of new concepts, new definitions."

"We do not celebrate the death of our enemies"
"Break their arms and legs".
 
Oct 27, 2017
176
How big are the chances that the Israeli population vote for a peaceful Knesset/Gouverment next time? Because for as long as the israeli population votes these people in power nothing will change. And no board rage, name calling, bans or whatever will change that.
 

Chikor

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
..........yeah, i should stop believing in people in power and that they got any decency.
Don't get me wrong, he was way better than Netanyahu, but like, all the shit that was going on right now was going on back then, and it was going on for decades before that.
 

Chikor

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
How big are the chances that the Israeli population vote for a peaceful Knesset/Gouverment next time? Because for as long as the israeli population votes these people in power nothing will change. And no board rage, name calling, bans or whatever will change that.
Zero.
There's a small chance that due to some scandals the Likud will not be in power and you get some centrist coalition (it's till not super likely, but possible), but ain't no one giving the plaestinians in the west bank basic human rights.
 
How big are the chances that the Israeli population vote for a peaceful Knesset/Gouverment next time? Because for as long as the israeli population votes these people in power nothing will change. And no board rage, name calling, bans or whatever will change that.
That depends on how much you trust an electorate that allows Netanyahu to become the longest running PM in the history of Israel. Even when Netanyahu steps down, do you really believe they will elect someone who is a total opposite of him in terms of policy and attitude/thinking, especially towards Palestinian people?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,155
People, this is a far cry from GAF. Mods are being clear on what the policy is and aren't censoring/removing posts and banning anybody merely questioning the status quo.
The policy isn't clear at all, when there is a pretty big double standard and other nonsense exceptions to the policy.

There is a question to how to handle figures individuals who, while Jewish, support anti-Semitic views and haven't been exempt up to now.
Start with the common sense that people don't get a natural born immunity to avoid committing past atrocities, even ones done to their ancestors.

Granted, I agree that there's more apt comparisons. I recognize the history of the comparisons. Hell, I even feel that this board is way too eager to brand everything and anything they disagree with the Nazi label.
If this forum wants to make a broad policy against using the word "Nazi" as a colloquialism for violent, racist, inhuman authoritarian regimes, movements, people, etc., then be consistent and make that a broad rule. But it will not go over well.


That all said, this isn't some horrible affront and conspiracy.
Nobody said it was, but it has been a hell of a week for excellence in resetera moderation.
 
Oct 27, 2017
189
The Netherlands
Don't get me wrong, he was way better than Netanyahu, but like, all the shit that was going on right now was going on back then, and it was going on for decades before that.
I get that, but i just don't understand why people have to go to so much horror and brutality, it's pure sadness. This is not only about Israel but in general sense. In my, naive opinion, i don't understand why we humans think it's ok to make other people suffer/hurting them only because of whatever reason.
 

TAJ

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,610
Mods and admins are discussing it.

EDIT: Apologies, I jumped the gun here. There hasn't been any detailed discussion about this across the team. We'll talk it over and figure it out.
Looks like it's almost time to reset again. Hopefully the next owner will be someone I've actually heard of.
 
Oct 27, 2017
176
Zero.
There's a small chance that due to some scandals the Likud will not be in power and you get some centrist coalition (it's till not super likely, but possible), but ain't no one giving the plaestinians in the west bank basic human rights.
So what happens is what the israel population to a large degree voted for, thats how democracy works. The international community won´t bat an eye. So it´s like discussing if water is wet. The palestinians will mostly die, israel will sack their lands end of story. Just another sad chapter in human history, people will at some time look back upon and ask why noone did anything.
 

Chikor

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
So what happens is what the israel population to a large degree voted for, thats how democracy works. The international community won´t bat an eye. So it´s like discussing if water is wet. The palestinians will mostly die, israel will sack their lands end of story. Just another sad chapter in human history, people will at some time look back upon and ask why noone did anything.
The official policy of the current government is "managing the conflict", i.e. try to limit the number of casualties in Israel and slowly build more settlements.
There really isn't an end game, some people say shit like "voluntary ethnic cleansing" (I shit you not, it's the same garbage as in the US, we'll make their life so bad so they'll just pack and l eave) some want to straight up put them on trucks and ship them to Jordan (though that's still a pretty fringe position in Israeli politics), and some think that when we move away from oil to renwables the gulf state will not have their political power and then, ummmm, I donno? Apartheid forever?

The point is that the current Israeli government and all foreseeable future ones don't want to fight with the settlers and don't give a shit about the palestinians and they'll do nothing but maintain the current apartheid regime unless they're forced to.
 

Chikor

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
I get that, but i just don't understand why people have to go to so much horror and brutality, it's pure sadness. This is not only about Israel but in general sense. In my, naive opinion, i don't understand why we humans think it's ok to make other people suffer/hurting them only because of whatever reason.
It's mostly nationalism. I mean yeah, racism and religion play into it, but the way the population is indoctrinated to think like that is mostly the good old nationalist playbook.
It's us vs. them and they are the enemy, and they're not people.
You see it in the way news is reported in Israel - Palestinians never demonstrate, they riot, they don't have kids, they have teenagers, or minors or military aged people, you only talk about them when they die or kill someone and they almost never have name.
And everything is a terror attack, even a combined force battle with the Hezbollah. Sanctions are economic terrorism and a band that cancel a show is cultural terrorism and talking shit about Israel abroad is hasbara terrorism.

I mean shit, I even slipped into that garbage mindset in this very thread and I have been off that poison for almost 20 years now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
213
In theory are posts like this allowed?

I think these quotes from holocaust survivors sum up best how i fell about this

"......given up everything that has to do with humanity, with empathy, for one thing: the state. The ‘blood and soil,’ just like the Nazis. I learned in school about blood and soil, and that’s exactly their idea, too.” - Hajo Meyer. Born in Bielefeld, Germany, in 1924, Meyer fled Germany for the Netherlands at age 14, where he went into hiding when the Nazis invaded a year later. Captured in 1944, he was sent to Auschwitz. His parents died after being deported from Germany.
“Like the Nazis, the Israel government enforces collective punishment. It aims to kill enough Palestinians, to punish them sufficiently, drive them out of their homeland, so they will disappear as a people. Israel seeks to remove Palestine from the world's family of nations. That too is a form of genocide…. Every case of oppression is unique, but the struggle for justice is indivisible. As we then fought for freedom for European Jews, we now call for freedom for the Palestinians....For me, as a survivor of the Holocaust, the tragic situation in Gaza awakens memories of what I and my family experienced under Hitler – the ghetto walls, the killings, the systematic starvation and deprivation, the daily humiliations.”- Suzanne Weiss. Born in Paris during the Nazi occupation, Weiss was sent by a resistance organization to Auvergne, where she lived in hiding with a peasant family. Her parents did not survive, and after the war, Weiss left France. She now lives in Canada, and is a member of Not In Our Name: Jewish Voices Against Zionism and of the Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid.
what about this:

Remember people this is not a duck.
and again how close to nazis does a fictional comparison need to be before thats too far?

Whats the effective difference between comparing israel to nazis and the bad guys in attack on titan or fucking gundam even? if say in one of these threads i reply with: " whats next death stars and storm troopers?" is that too much?

Banning the most well known example of genocide from ANY thread discussing genocide is utterly ridiculous.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,292
State sponsored terrorism basically. The Palestinians will be systematically eradicated, by which point it will be too late, just like the Native Americans were..

There was something incredibly harrowing about that tweet from BiBi of which he spoke of the strong crushing the weak. Man I hate that guy, he's the very picture of malice in this world.
 
Nov 4, 2017
539
Why is this protection not extended to Milo and Miller?
Exactly.

Especially in the case of Milo; he is gay.

Homosexuals were also a minority group targeted targeted by the Nazis.

Why don't they get this extra special protection that the mod team has bestowed upon the people and/or government of Israel?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,981
Look, all Israel is doing is genocide of a people they already discriminated against under the guise of security and protection while expanding their own borders. It's really both sides who are at fault.
 

Mona

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,035
Is there anyone who did not see this coming?

Israel ain't turning back now, its full steam ahead

Its bullshit that the world turns a blind eye to this

Well in any case, I'm sure the last few remaining Palestinians will take solace in the fact that we succeeded in our mission to not label their oppressors to harshly
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,085
I'm curious, is the US the main gate in condemning Israel, or is the rest of the West just as supportive?

Edit: To expand, why would that be? I get the US reasoning, as it's tied heavily for one parties platform and in our military spending/investment. I don't recall any other nations investing as much of themselves in continuing such support.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,058
Australia
I'm curious, is the US the main gate in condemning Israel, or is the rest of the West just as supportive?

Edit: To expand, why would that be? I get the US reasoning, as it's tied heavily for one parties platform and in our military spending/investment. I don't recall any other nations investing as much of themselves in continuing such support.
Australia was the only other country in the UN to vote with the US against an investigation into the killings in Gaza earlier this year. Our government supports Israel because America supports Israel and as a nation we aspire to nothing more than to being America's little toady (replacing our previous desire to be Britain's little toady before the empire collapsed).
 
UK isn't much better. It seems we're willing to turn a blind eye to Israel's actions and I, for the life of me, can't understand why.
Isn't it obvious? Because the UK, and any other country, doesn't want to risk ruining their relationship with the US.

Which is, although disagreeable, but also understandable, considering bathing the land with Palestinian blood by supporting the Israel carte blanche is something that has unilateral support from the US.
 
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