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BBC: Theresa May wins confidence vote 200 to 117

Boy Wander

Boy Wander

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Oct 29, 2017
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MilesQ said:
Nah. The 25 to 50 figure isn't the entire truth and something leaver trash throws out to muddy the water.

If we look at a breakdown of the figures.



_90089868_eu_ref_uk_regions_leave_remain_gra624_by_age.png


Bonus bit of info, because we're still apparently at the stage where leavers didn't have racist motivations.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36619342
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Fair enough - this is a better breakdown than the one that I was reading up on. And I guess it makes sense - we have an aging population so it stands to reason that those percentages would carry more weight. I stand corrected on this one.
 

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Boy Wander said:
As I said earlier I struggle with the whole concept of having a second vote. I'd need to reconcile that with the mess that has unfolded over the past few years. Right now I think I'd probably vote Remain on balance because whilst I don't like the idea of a second vote, I don't think leaving with no deal is a better alternative and leaving with a decent deal that respects the promises of the manifesto / Leave campaign doesn't seem possible.
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Do you struggle with the concept of addressing the role that misinformation and Russian meddling played in the leave campaign?
 
supremeplatypus

supremeplatypus

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When you have a operation done they tell you what the potential side effects are after you get into the hospital and ask you if you still want to do it. It's kind of the same with brexit.

The Leave campaign was corrupt as hell and serial bullshitters. They said this was the easiest thing ever and that you could leave and have all the benefits.
 
Boy Wander

Boy Wander

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TimeWyrm said:
So, if you had the option of leaving with a decent deal that did do the above ?
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I'm not sure that's even a possible outcome. I'd likely still vote Remain if push came to shove. I'll freely admit I wasn't a staunch remainer and I basically made my mind up on the day because I wasn't sure what would happen if we left. It's difficult for me to come out strongly on either side.
 
JediTimeBoy

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Boy Wander said:
I'm not sure that's even a possible outcome. I'd likely still vote Remain if push came to shove. I'll freely admit I wasn't a staunch remainer and I basically made my mind up on the day because I wasn't sure what would happen if we left. It's difficult for me to come out strongly on either side.
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Fair enough.
 
Boy Wander

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Mercury Fred said:
Do you struggle with the concept of addressing the role that misinformation and Russian meddling played in the leave campaign?
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Misinformation - sure- I already mentioned that the press (Daily Mail and Sun especially) have a lot to do with the result. Russian meddling I don't know enough about to be able to say.
 
Yossarian

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Oct 25, 2017
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Boy Wander said:
If the result of a referendum doesn't mean anything , we shouldn't have them in the first place.
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There are far worse precedents being set here, I think.

That our nation's economic stability is merely the play thing of hedge-fund managers and Etonians.

That we are happy to go to an ill-informed populace and ask them to vote on an important issue, and then deliberately and openly misinform and manipulate them on a massive scale.

That we, as a nation, will follow through with an action even though we know it makes no logical or economic sense.

If these are the precedents set for future referendums, then I agree; we shouldn't have them at all.

Naively, part of me expects the government to have the wherewithal to have oversight on this stuff and make decisions for the good of the nation, hence why I'm always disappointed.
 

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Boy Wander said:
Misinformation - sure- I already mentioned that the press (Daily Mail and Sun especially) have a lot to do with the result. Russian meddling I don't know enough about to be able to say.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...tter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...fluence-brexit-vote-detailed-us-senate-report

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/15/world/europe/russia-brexit-twitter-facebook.html

https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...ing-britain-unless-brexit-meddling-is-handled

For starters.
 
Boy Wander

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Mercury Fred said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...tter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...fluence-brexit-vote-detailed-us-senate-report

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/15/world/europe/russia-brexit-twitter-facebook.html

https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...ing-britain-unless-brexit-meddling-is-handled

For starters.
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I'll have a read. Given that we're saying the Leave vote was in the main made up by older voters, I wonder how much impact this would have had. Regardless, I can see why some people are saying that the vote shouldn't be legal. How would one stop this from happening in future I wonder.
 
JediTimeBoy

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Boy Wander said:
I'll have a read. Given that we're saying the Leave vote was in the main made up by older voters, I wonder how much impact this would have had. Regardless, I can see why some people are saying that the vote shouldn't be legal. How would one stop this from happening in future I wonder.
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Needs a majority of 60% to be passed, otherwise the status quo is maintained.









 
Boy Wander

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I see May is saying she'll go before the next election regardless of the outcome of tonight. Sounds like she'll stand down as soon as Brexit is sorted out.
 
Corky

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Bet she fights the next election, she doesn't have it in her to resign. She is playing them like a fiddle
 
jelly

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Am I right in thinking the silver lining to all of this is if May wins, the lunatics of the Tory party are banished?
 
Xando

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So ERG overplayed their hand and got a no confidence vote she'll likely survive?
 
Boy Wander

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Corky said:
Bet she fights the next election, she doesn't have it in her to resign. She is playing them like a fiddle
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I doubt it. She's already led them into one completely unnecessary election and left them weaker than they were before it. Those that are going to vote for her are likely doing so to get through the leave date (whether March or delayed from then). She's basically got a max 12 month stay of execution.
 
Corky

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Boy Wander said:
I doubt it. She's already led them into one completely unnecessary election and left them weaker than they were before it. Those that are going to vote for her are likely doing so to get through the leave date (whether March or delayed from then). She's basically got a max 12 month stay of execution.
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The election could occur in that time and they couldn't stop her fighting it. I seriously don't think she has the character to resign
 
Boy Wander

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Corky said:
The election could occur in that time and they couldn't stop her fighting it. I seriously don't think she has the character to resign
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It's reasonably likely that there could be an election. Even in winning a vote tonight, her deal will get voted down and she'll basically be governing with no majority and no support from the DUP. At that point, a motion of no confidence could occur and we'll end up with a GE. I can't believe she'd fight such an election as leader. I know she's stubborn but I can't believe she's that stupid.
 
MrKlaw

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TimeWyrm said:


So if Brexit isn't "orderly" then she won't step aside.
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It's an interesting tactic. Who in the Tory party really wants to preside over the brexit deal? Better let May be tarnished and then at least attempt to move forward afterwards


Still fucking annoying how this whole vote has turned into an internal Tory fuckfest for two years now
 
supremeplatypus

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"Reunification and renewal" lol, if any form of Brexit goes through many will be campaigning to rejoin from day 1. And that depends if May can even get her terrible deal through. No Deal is just fringe insanity I hope nobody reasonable will even think about. Though being "reasonable" is quite difficult for our politicians nowadays....
 
Garfield

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As always with May she has gone in giving fake promises to win. Now that means she is here for another 4 years FFS. So annoyed about this. She does it all the time.
 
JediTimeBoy

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May rules out leading Tories into 2022 general election

Piecing together the various accounts of what Theresa May told the 1922 Committee, it is now becoming clear that she said. But it has taken a while. ("Typical May," a colleague says. "She tries to deliver a message, but no one can agree what she said.)

May told MPs clearly that she would not fight the general election in 2022. Because she has repeatedly ruled out calling a snap general election, in her mind this is the next general election.

As for what might happen if there were an election before 2022, on that she was non-committal. An MP in the room said she made the point that she would then be asked to commit to standing down in 2021, or in 2020, or even next year.

So, if there were to be an early election, it is possible she could still seek to lead her party into it.

But the commitment to go before a 2022 election did make an impact, the MP said. "It was much more clear than the briefing you guys were given earlier," he said. "It did make a difference."

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-in-may-amid-brexit-uncertainty-politics-live (timestamp 18:23) (bold emphasis in middle is mine).



 
Daitokuji

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Oct 27, 2017
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What makes her the best at handling Brexit? If she's leaving after Brexit is over, why even bother to stay for Brexit?
 
Number45

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Yeah, for all her many horrible faults I kind of admire her for sticking with this when so many have just up and left (including the cunt that started it).

I'd have more respect if she were to cancel brexit after winning this evening, but that's proper wishful thinking.
 
Faddy

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Boy Wander said:
I see May is saying she'll go before the next election regardless of the outcome of tonight. Sounds like she'll stand down as soon as Brexit is sorted out.
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It is clear she can't deliver her deal and Europe will not renegotiate with her so it seems like a pointless endeavour. She has no other policies.
 
Prattle

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Oct 30, 2017
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Psychotext said:
A provider of opportunities to work, live, study and collaborate.

My wife was able to work and study in Europe and is now in a job that's funded fairly significantly by Europe.
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Exactly. Rescind Article 50. Straight back to what we have now, no need for 'cool down' periods of any kind.

This whole thing is a mess.
 
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