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Belgian gambling commission is investigating Battlefront II and Overwatch

Creamium

Creamium

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,701
Belgium
Belgian TV channel VTM reported this, only have a source in Dutch right now: https://nieuws.vtm.be/binnenland/onderzoek-naar-nieuw-star-wars-spel

I will translate the most important parts of the article.

The gambling commission is investigating the new video game SW: Battlefront II. In this game, you can pay money for upgrades, only you don't know what you're getting beforehand. Overwatch, another popular game, is also being investigated.

[...]

The game features loot crates, which offer items but the contents are random. "Therein lies the problem", says director of the gambling commission Peter Naessens to VTM news. "It depends on luck and at that point you're gambling."

The commission says this game poses a danger to minors, who are under (social) pressure to spend a lot of money on the game.That's why they're starting an investigation. "If we are dealing with a game of chance, they need to have a permit."

In the worst case scenario, this could lead to fines of hundreds of thousands of euros. The game could also be removed from stores. EA, developer of the game, declined to comment.
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Update: this is also happening in The Netherlands: https://www.nu.nl/games/5009924/nederlandse-kansspelautoriteit-onderzoekt-lootboxen-in-games.html

The Gambling Authority in the Netherlands is going to research if games containing lootboxes can be considered gambling games. Online gambling games are at the moment still highly illegal in the Netherlands.
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Isee

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Please Belgium (and EU) classify lootboxes as gambling.
I think I should write a letter to my delegate, because I'm concerned father.
 
djshauny1

djshauny1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
887
Where you are at it, investigate cod with all the lootboxes too. The sooner they go, the better.
 
Roytheone

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,156
Hopefully we will follow our southern neighbors example and also take a hard look at this stuff.
 
Arcus Felis

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
Good.

Frankly, games with loot boxes are getting out of hand. It is gambling once real money is involved. I really dislike this system, and I wish for it to vanish entirely. Video games shouldn't be about how lucky you can get with the lottery/gacha/etc, and there is a real danger for minors.

This whole thing is unscrupulous companies preying on people with addictive personalities. It has to stop.
 
sleepInsom

sleepInsom

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,569
Bakercat

Bakercat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,154
'merica
Hopefully other countries see this and maybe start to rethink the wording of the current laws on gambling and maybe do something about this shit.

who am I kidding, lootboxes for all!
 

Deleted member 24550

Ac
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,398
I doubt it's fully random, probably spaces out or frontloads epic loot depending on how much you buy, for how long you've been buying it and how badly you need it. I wonder if that makes it better or worse for a gambling commission.
 
Nightbird

Nightbird

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,780
Germany
Very good.

Just because you don't gain any money (or other valuables) from it doesn't mean that all the stuff that makes gambling so dangerous doesn't exist anymore in those games.
 
Cocamantis

Cocamantis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
922
I've never actually stopped to think about loot boxes and now I kinda feel silly for not recognizing that yeah, you're basically gambling with them.
This whole thing is really weird.
 
Cloud Strife

Cloud Strife

Member
Nov 13, 2017
36
Glad to read this. Maybe it's unrelated, but didn't China introduce a law which forced companies behind titles such as DOTA, LoL to reveal drop rates of loot? Something similar could happen here?
 
OP
OP
Creamium

Creamium

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,701
Belgium
sleepInsom said:
Yep, I said as much in an earlier thread on this topic. This is 100% gambling. When you're selling your game to children and exploiting addictive behavior patterns to make money, there needs to be strict regulation.
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Yeah that was a point I hadn't considered in a while. When this is attached to huge franchises like SW, kids want the best stuff and they want it fast to brag to their friends. It's all so disgusting.
 
Illusion

Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
o k said:
One of those things is not like the other.
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One is a better self-regulated version of loot boxes, the other is not.
Seeing both reviewed helps committees figure things out and understands the difference between ideas.
However, Overwatch may be seen guilty in some departments alongside Battlefront.
 
Numb

Numb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,246
I don't mind lootboxes as long as they are not in singleplayer games
And not in non FTP games
 
PandaShake

PandaShake

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,464
If the government pass laws that require loot boxes to reveal percentages, it might not solve the problem, but it's a very pro-consumer first step like some countries have done.
 
Terra Firma

Terra Firma

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,235
TheWickedSoul said:
Government can say we can't regulate ourselves and then censor games, do things with drm, used games and other things.
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Well, yeah. The market cannot regulate itself. Libertarianism doesn't work.

DRM was something introduced by the market. Limiting used games sales was introduced by the market. If anything, government intervention would have stopped something like the market preventing used games sales.

Even these loot boxes were introduced by the market and they're such a cash grab that most developers won't back down from them unless such practices become illegal. Anti-consumer practices by the market have only been worsening, ever since the concept of DLC appeared in the early 2000s. People with gambling addictions, especially a younger demographic that plays video games, are being exploited to hell by lootboxes and if the government doesn't do something (because the market certainly won't), there will be a lot of lives destroyed.
 
J-Tier

J-Tier

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,737
Southern California
Please keep the current US government out of gaming. I know everyone is up in arms about it, but the games are being developed here in the US. This should be the job of the ratings board.

I guess it's inevitable though...if other countries like Belgium are starting to investigate, won' be long before ours does too.
 
Kor of Memory

Kor of Memory

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,669
I feel like I am missing something regarding the outrage at Overwatch lootboxes. Like, earlier this year, they had terrible drop rates for special holiday items, but Blizzard fixed that. It's one of the healthiest lootbox systems in games I feel, especially considering all DLC since launch has been free.
 
GodofWine

GodofWine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,775
It never dawned on my how scummy loot boxes were (I never bought a 'key' for one) until Rocket League allowed you to earn a few free keys recently. You can see all the potential things in the box, then you 'spend' a key ($$) and it spins a wheel, and I got two crappy stickers for cars I didn't even own (that are in OTHER loot boxes lol yea srs), I did get one good item from the last one. But If I spent money I'd have felt robbed.

Then my son (6) earned 2 keys, and was hoping for at least new wheels or a cool paint job, got shafted with stickers for cars he didn't have. I literally told him (remember he is 6) "These things suck and I'm never spending another dime on this game so don't ask" (I have bought a car pack - I got the game free, and play it constantly for 2 years now - so I wanted to put something in their tip jar).


Putting 'P2W' stuff in them, WOW...game over.
 

Kismet

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
1,432
Very interesting.

But I'm sure loot box games will only get a gamble label after this.
 
Tu101uk

Tu101uk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
380
London, UK
I still don't understand why the big AAA companies can't just post the odds/percentages, plenty of F2P games already do it (voluntarily or otherwise) and arguably their microtransaction loops are more exploitative than loot boxes in full-priced games.

If we take a more tangible physical analogous product like trading and collectable card games, these still post the odds of getting certain card rarities in each booster pack, it shouldn't be any different or any more difficult for loot boxes, and it would be a very pro-consumer step towards what everyone wants - transparency when it comes to microtransactions like these.
 
Dyle

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,944
Glad to see someone taking action. I wish the industry had had the dignity to stop this practice before government regulatory bodies had to step in. Hopefully this will spur changes to these systems everywhere
 
Keym

Keym

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
9,197
I don't get it, why are these games being investigated but not the thousands of mobile games with in app purchases? Because they're popular brands?
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
J-Tier said:
Please keep the current US government out of gaming. I know everyone is up in arms about it, but the games are being developed here in the US. This should be the job of the ratings board.
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The ESRB is owned and operated by a trade association of video game publishers, the ESA. They have a gigantic conflict of interest when it comes to microtransactions and lootboxes.

Only the threat of legislation will make them regulate it.
 
jwk94

jwk94

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,422
Do these games let you buy loot boxes with real money? And how are loot boxes different from buying packs of trading cards?
 
Altera

Altera

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,963
Perfect. Any game with paid loot boxes should have this happen. Too bad it'll never happen in the US.
 
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