Step the fuck off.
Don't try this shit with me. Most of my West African family are Muslim.
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Bernie really out here cutting ads with Joe Rogan's endorsement (SEE STAFF POST)
- Thread starter GrapeApes
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Don't try this shit with me. Most of my West African family are Muslim.
Everyone who follows politics knows that. This thread isn't about those people.
This thread is about taking as many votes from Trump as possible. Mind you I was also replying to the person who thought it should be super simple to replicate the Obama success with out acknowledging a major part of that was personality
Im not smart enough to know if this helps him or not. Like I kinda get it but Rogan can also eat shit.
The election doesn't restart after the primaries. Bernie (and other candidates) should do well to campaign as if it's the general.
I get that Rogan is a bigot and a controversial figure here, but I mean come on people. Do Bernie supporters actually want him to win, or are they just looking for someone "pure" to champion because they are not at risk if someone like Trump wins second term?
it almost assuredly doesn't effect him in any meaningful way
The general is the only thing that matters in the long run. I think a lot of people realise this and therefore it would not go down well for them to attack Biden too vocally.
Honestly Rogan is just about on the precipice of that line for me precisely because it's so fuzzy with him predominately just being known as a dudebro comedian with a huge podcast. The funny thing is I don't actually think this ad helps Rogan all that much in the end with all the ignorant and hateful shit he's said being dragged back up and Bernie's inclusive platform being a direct counter to all that. All this does in the end is make right wingers, centrists and apathetic apolitical dudes consider democratic socialism. Plus I don't think there's anybody else who wouldn't take this endorsement and run with it.
So my brother is a big time leftist and we've talked about this stuff a lot. I'm gonna attempt to explain where I think leftists are coming from, or at least how my brother sees it:
To leftists, centrists are the biggest road block when it comes to progress because they're the keepers of the status quo. A lot of leftists believe in accelerationism, so, they believe, if right wingers got their way things would change so drastically that people would be up in arms and fight for progress. As it is, things are just good enough for a number of people to keep the populace pacified, but still terrible for a huge number of people. This system is propped up by moderates and centrists and "neolibs". At best, these people are for incremental changes but these changes are so small as to be negligible; add to that increasing wealth disparity and climate change and it's clear things need to change quickly. So moderates, to leftists, are at best cowards too afraid to embrace progress or, at worst, terrible people that refuse to see how bad things are for their fellow countrymen because they personally don't have it so rough.
Not a great summary of leftist thought, not to mention it paints a pretty big brush, but this is what I've gleaned from my discussions with my brother.
Oh boy, I don't want to see how everyone will be disappointed of Sanders if he wins the general election. Clinton was right of one thing: he is a politician. And you shouldn't trust politicians; they are scum. They will do whatever they can to win, and when they are in a position of power, they forget all the promises they made in the campaign.
Anyways, between Sanders and Biden, Sander is the better option. And of course, if he wins the Dem primaries, everyone should vote for him in the general election. But don't expect too much of him.
Anyways, between Sanders and Biden, Sander is the better option. And of course, if he wins the Dem primaries, everyone should vote for him in the general election. But don't expect too much of him.
I have seen people on Twitter talking about checking out Joe Rogan as a result of this, so I don't buy this idea that it will do absolutely nothing for him. And the reason I asked that is because there's this pervasive idea throughout this thread that all that matters is beating Trump, and that Bernie should use anything that he can to win. If Bernie brought up how happy he was with an endorsement from the KKK, literally no one worth caring about would be happy about it despite it possibly making a few KKK members vote for him.
People have a limit to what they find acceptable, and part of what is so frustrating to me about this is that all of the things that Joe Rogan has said are acceptable losses to people who are desperate to win this election. I mean, I get it. I'm trans so I'm not exactly ignorant to the impact that Trump has had on my rights, and I'll most likely vote for Bernie even after all of this, but it just bothers me to see people act like Joe Rogan's no big deal.
Should you not be trying to get a better class of candidate through the primaries?
If it's Bernie vs Trump in November, then sure being on Rogans army and anyone else that can swing it away from Trump....but right now it's January and those barrels shouldn't be getting scraped.
It's the time to show you're the best Democrat, not the lesser evil to Trump.
Are you about to come in here and defend Joe Rogan after everything that's been posted in this thread?
If Bernie Sanders is not progressive enough, no one is.
It's a good thing Bernie has already proven that he's the best candidate of the field then :)
He's not, but all things considered, he's better than the rest of the Dems.
Don't excuse people who praise Islamophobic comments.
The exit polls between 2012 and 2016 show that you don't need a single Trump voter at all to beat Trump. Hillary's vote totals were down from Obama's amongst minorities, and a large number of white voters . Why not focus on those democratic aligned groups who voted 3rd party, did not vote, or could not vote?
For example, has any candidate talked about what they plan on doing to fight back against the GOP plan in depressing democratic votes in certain states like Wisconsin?
What does your brother think about the people who are going to suffer (and have suffered) when the right wing get their way? I don't see how throwing your fellow citizens to the wolves to make a point is any better than the cowardice shown by so called moderates. People's lives are ruined and some even die when a right wing government takes power. The mindset whereby someone believes that things must be destroyed for there to be change is disgusting to me when human lives are what's being destroyed. How selfish can someone be?
This.
If this helps Bernie defeat Trump, it's a no fucking brainer.
Seems like some people would rather Trump win than having a dem accept an endorsement from a hugely popular person that indeed does spouts transphobic shit, but could seriously aid Bernie in the election.
Trump is transphobic and is currently the president. Bernie is not transphobic and has a chance to win the presidency.
You must play to win. Especially when Trump will do and say whatever lurid shit legal or not so he can to win. The one who has the most votes get in the WH. Accepting and advertising an incredible popular idiot's endorsement is something I'm fine with. Because it's common fucking sense. Because it increases the chances of Trump losing. As an American, I think that should take priority.
hey your brother is an idiot, and so is every accelerationist, even setting aside the brokebrain concept of "i don't care how many people die because it'll eventually get so bad it'll cause a leftist surge!", we've literally seen what happens when the right wing takes total control of the government, and from those ashes we got Bill Third Way Clinton, Barack Reach Across The Aisle Obama, and based on every indication Joe Literally Just A Republican Biden.
Who says it has to be one or the other? Its not like Bernie Sanders has adjusted his platform one bit to appeal to Joe Rogan.
You guys realize that Bernie has to win the primary first??
So it's true, then? That's unfortunate.
I don't care for the man, but it's very clear that he has a diverse bunch of supporters. I was one of them at one point.
I'm responding to the idea that you need to sway Trump voters to win against him. You don't need Trump voters at all. I'd rather see these candidates put their effort and time into ensuring that democratic voters both come out to vote, and are unobstructed by the GOP when they attempt to exercise their right to vote.
No, because even I admit he's a piece of shit in a lot of areas. It's just you have a bunch of people making assumptions about his listeners without any real numbers to back up the claims
Yeap, accelerationism is a well proven failure at this point with how much the overton window has shifted right and norms have completely eroded over the Trump administration to date. Like for Christ's sake even the Dem frontrunner is still a bigger conservative than our last nominated candidate was and so many people are looking back to Obama dearly with Biden as a return to those "glory" days when things were "normal" before Trump.
Accelerationists never contemplate whether a traumatized population is going to turn to a strongman when their fantasy of massive social upheaval happens. And if they have, they imagine themselves as the warlord.
This may also explain a piece of why PoC voters on the whole aren't looking to kick off some half baked revolution with the Twitter platoon of the 101st Chairborne, when they'll be the obvious targets of violence
Joe Rogan's audience are not dedicated Trump Voters. Also Bernie Sanders had a great performance on a Fox News Town Hall before. I don't recall people saying that was too far.
But that wouldn't be an issue if Biden wouldn't win the primary, and he's winning because nobody is really doing anything to tarnish the image people have of him thanks to nostalgia for Obama's presidency. They're practically letting Biden win at this point.
That's exactly what most of the candidates have been doing by ignoring Biden. It's working great for Biden, not so much for everyone else. They should be running as if it's a primary and chip away at the pragmatic people who are only supporting Biden because they think he has the best chance of winning.
I don't want Biden to be the nominee, but he's going to be if people like Bernie focus on crap like getting Rogan's audience instead of the people who matter.
What about the tens of millions of voters that are neither staunch Trumpians nor democratic voters? Dont need them either?
I suppose his answer to this would be that people are already dying: police forces murdering people in cold blood, humans being locked in cages and dying under ICE custody, people dying from treatable diseases because our healthcare is garbage. Since these people are marginalized it's easy for moderates to ignore it or pretend it doesn't exist and things continue unabated and the marginalized continue to be harmed. The ideal situation would be that real progress be made politically but, barring that, shit has to change one way or another.
Really though, trying to convey his thoughts like this isn't super productive since, you know, I'm not him. I was just answering Armaros' question about why leftist's seem to despise centrists so much and those that try to court them.
My dad is a Trump supporter, but he really likes Joe Rogan. My dad has recently been commenting on how he likes Bernie Sanders.
Joe Rogan might be a piece of shit, but if his endorsement of Bernie Sanders can push people like my dad to support Bernie Sanders, then I'm completely fine with that.
Joe Rogan might be a piece of shit, but if his endorsement of Bernie Sanders can push people like my dad to support Bernie Sanders, then I'm completely fine with that.
Yeah I thought it was really weird to see Bernie on his podcast that one time, but the guy does have a lot of influence, so I really don't give a shit if Bernie's Twitter mentions him. Overdramatizing shit like this reminds me of Obama's passive aggressive tweets about how many days their justice went unapproved....instead of actually doing something about it and risking something. Not that this is that level, but Democrats have a serious "high road" mentality that leads them down the road of ineffectualness.
This is where I'm at when it comes to accelerationism. I don't frequent leftist spaces much so I've been wondering if accelerationism is a common theme in those circles or just with certain types? But that's a question for a different thread.
I've had a few military buddies ask me about Bernie too after Rogan had him on his podcast and continues to talk about him
and they're very much Republicans
He hosts anyone, including people like Alex Jones, Jordan Peterson, and Candace Owens. Just let's his guests ramble and peddle whatever they want.
Has made racist remarks(theater full of black people he called "planet of the apes). He has made transphobic remarks as well.
All that being said he has a huge audience and I dont think trying to reach some of them and grab those votes is a bad thing.
T
Don't be surprised if by General Election time he keeps inviting ton of guest to trash Bernie Sanders and keeps silence, while pretending he is endorsing him.
So it seems the consensus is that Rogan is a flaming shit bag with a large audience that Bernie should definitely leverage, because winning is the only goal and this is what savvy politicians do.
I just want to be perfectly clear so when the goal posts are eventually moved the next time someone in his orbit craps on the proverbial rug, we can skip the recriminations and just link back to this post.
I just want to be perfectly clear so when the goal posts are eventually moved the next time someone in his orbit craps on the proverbial rug, we can skip the recriminations and just link back to this post.
Definitely, it's not like Bernie is taking him out to dinner or anything like that. If life gives you lemons you make lemonade.
I'm sure this has been said, but Joe Rogan has one of if not the largest podcast audiences in the world. People of all backgrounds listen to this guy. Personally, I know people of many different ethnicities and political beliefs who listen to him. He has progressives, centrists, conservatives, the anti-political, the disinterested, everyone. If there is a media of the disaffected masses, Joe Rogan is it.
The unfortunate thing about the masses is that they are not woke to everyone's particular liking. They don't see trans issues in the same way most of us do, and they don't understand the likes of someone like, say, Jordan Peterson in the way that we do. But one could argue that they categorically cannot be aware of these things until the left pushes these issues into popular consciousness, which is true of literally every other social relation (with regards to equality and equity), be it gender, race, or economic. This is what Bernie Sanders does, and it is exactly how we have gotten someone like Joe Rogan to actively describe himself as a progressive, in spite of our narrow characterizations of him. On the other hand: demonizing the masses, wishing ill will upon those who vote "wrong", lording your moral superiority over them, and wokescolding does the exact opposite. The HRC-deplorable manuever is a suicide tactic. A robust and effective left must be compassionate and communicative with working people of all tendencies. That is the reality of actual politics.
Going back to his massive platform, he and his audience are the exact target constituencies that every good liberal says we need to make concessions to. I cannot see this as anything other than a win.
The unfortunate thing about the masses is that they are not woke to everyone's particular liking. They don't see trans issues in the same way most of us do, and they don't understand the likes of someone like, say, Jordan Peterson in the way that we do. But one could argue that they categorically cannot be aware of these things until the left pushes these issues into popular consciousness, which is true of literally every other social relation (with regards to equality and equity), be it gender, race, or economic. This is what Bernie Sanders does, and it is exactly how we have gotten someone like Joe Rogan to actively describe himself as a progressive, in spite of our narrow characterizations of him. On the other hand: demonizing the masses, wishing ill will upon those who vote "wrong", lording your moral superiority over them, and wokescolding does the exact opposite. The HRC-deplorable manuever is a suicide tactic. A robust and effective left must be compassionate and communicative with working people of all tendencies. That is the reality of actual politics.
Going back to his massive platform, he and his audience are the exact target constituencies that every good liberal says we need to make concessions to. I cannot see this as anything other than a win.
Because Sanders went to Fox News and challenged them on their regressive views.
With Rogan he gave the tried and true classism stump talking points and then runs the endorsement as an unqualified endorsement.
Fuck, if they'd just responded with the "our economy in cookies" gif they'd have been leagues better than this.
Yes, we've narrowly classified Joe "Plant of the Apes" Rogan and his friends Sam "Islam is a nation of hate" Harris, Jordan "forced monoghamy" Peterson, and Alex "Sandy Hook is a lie" Jones.
We're pretty heartless like that around here.
why aren't they registered as democrats, who do they normally vote for lol
Lol, these are Bernie's champions I guess.
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