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Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Neoliberals are all YOU GOTTA APPEAL ACROSS THE AISLE but only on their terms.
Many of the people criticizing him here aren't neoliberals. I'm sure not.

But I have done a lot of work with the democratic party in the south and while it's far from perfect especially in regards to foreign affairs, Bernie throwing all the work Mississippi democrats put in to appeal to the white working class along with closing the partisan gap due to energizing non-voters and minorities under the bus because racist white people keep flocking to other racist liars is pretty fucking dumb if he wants to be president or even win a primary in those states.

Again he's calling the most effective presidential campaign in Mississippi since the 70's a failure because 90% of the white voters are racists and flocked to the racist candidate. He's completely ignoring the democratic base and all the people that put in work day after day to close that gap.

In short, this:

Welp. He probably only closed the gap because of black voters. They don't count, gotta coddle some racists.

I like Bernie and he's my 2nd choice but he does a really bad job at talking to/about democrats in the South. And whatever the dude is an old white guy who's lived in Vermont the past 30 years, I don't expect him to be perfect. But he's also running for president again so I expected him to be better than he was before on this issue, and he's not.

And yes it is funny that self proclaimed progressives are all behind Bernie courting the racist whites 100% while ignoring that democrats have been putting forth programs that Bernie also advocates for, and they just... don't vote for them. Bernie and his hardcore base can delude themselves into thinking that white Missippians will all of a sudden vote for Obamacare expansions and better education when it's coming from his mouth but they've rejected it from all the other democratic candidates before. Kansas had to bankrupt itself on an insane scale before they finally stopped electing Republicans and that was still only temporarily.

And yet the people who defend Bernie in this thread and advocate him courting the white vote also throw a hissy fit when John Bel Edward's, Joe Manchin et. al open their mouths because while they're not leftists and pretty shitty people they're still Democrats who appeal to white people enough in their state to vote for them and they're a helluva lot better than the alternative.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
I don't know how you can say this whilst ignoring the fact that people in Mississippi vote for their own representatives who contribute to the effort of stopping any progressive legislation from passing, and who also do their best to limit the effects of positive legislation which does pass. The rejection of Medicaid expansion in that state is a pretty big example of this.

We can't keep talking for voters in places like this and ignoring what they actually want.
Yep.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,495
Miami
Who would be better for this job?

The field is and was FILLED with qualified candidates.
I'm not suggesting that anyone is unqualified (well... maybe Buttigieg) but I do think that none of the candidates who are left have the kind of appeal that I'm used to seeing on the Democratic side.

2016 was an anomaly I thought because everyone but Sanders tried to clear the way for Clinton but I expected to be really excited to vote in 2020 and it looks like another election where I'll be voting more against Trump than for anyone in particular. Maybe it's just me.
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,827
Disappointing, but not surprising given his similar statements in the recent past. Was hoping he would learn from those.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Sadly, it will never stop happening, because the reason it persists is that people actively want to believe things like "class is the root of everything" and "if the dems only TRIED harder they'd be able to win in places like this" as they are simply unwilling to acknowledge the fundamental reality in which they live as it's a wildly less pleasant narrative.
Also yes. The idea that white Mississippi voters have rejected the expansion of Obamacare, increased education funding, automation based job training, climate change initiatives and more all because the democrat running wasn't Bernie Sanders and Bernie will convince all those people that everything they've been voting for is bad and everything they've been voting against is good by just... talking to them is patently absurd and peak savior complex.

This isn't about writing them all off or calling them deplorables, it's about acknowledging the reality of the situation of states like Mississippi.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Also yes. The idea that white Mississippi voters have rejected the expansion of Obamacare, increased education funding, automation based job training, climate change initiatives and more all because the democrat running wasn't Bernie Sanders and Bernie will convince all those people that everything they've been voting for is bad and everything they've been voting against is good by just... talking to them is patently absurd and peak savior complex.

This isn't about writing them all off or calling them deplorables, it's about acknowledging the reality of the situation of states like Mississippi.
Especially when Jim Hood actually did figure out how to win in Mississippi. He won four terms as their Attorney General! Even in 2015 (a year before Trump) he won re-election by double digits. And wouldn't you know it, he's a pro-life, pro-gun Democrat who kept things nice and nonpartisan when he ran for office.

His gubernatorial campaign last year is basically everything people in this thread seem to want Democrats do to compete. He ran on expanding Medicaid, making college and preschool free, and reversing corporate tax cuts. Anything that could be remotely construed as identity politics? Fuck that. Still lost by five points. Don't tell me for a second this would have changed if you just swapped in Bernie Sanders' platform.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Marianne was the best candidate on race but y'all aren't ready for that conversation
I'm afraid healing crystals kind of undermined any credibility she might have had as a candidate, but her views on race are kind of a "the worst person you know just made a great point" moment.

Helps when you're insulated by a lack of expectation to do well, I suppose.
 

Kreed

The Negro Historian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,109
Lmao 12 page thread on this quote.

"90% of whites in Mississippi are not racist"
-Bernie

What a controversial opinion, this means Bernie is racist.
- resetera

what a joke.

Generalized defensive nonsense like in this post about the entire thread and every post in it is why it's difficult at times to have genuine discussions about discrimination on this forum. Bernie is not being "canceled"/isn't going to lose the election because posters in this thread are expressing their opinions about his statement.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,435
São Paulo, Brazil
Bernie treats historical materialism as bedrock, as he should. The idea that having said worldview is somehow "unwoke" is borderline anachronistic.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,227
Seems like a pretty straightforward statement. Most white people in Miss didnt reject Obama because he was black, it was mostly due to them being Republican because of "tradition" and "muh guns" and voting against their own interests. Miss is the poorest state in the USA, the majority of white voters (and black voters) would benefit from more liberal policies and the Democratic party hasnt been able to get that message across, that is the failing
 

DJwest

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,152
hedging their bets, I for one would not bet against slavery making a come back in America. Hell it never really left, it put on a fake mustache and became "Prison"
I'm not American so when I saw date in the article I literally yelled WHAT? I can't. Please tell me there are no other states that are yet to ratify that amendment. Also note to self : if I ever go to the US, never go to Mississippi
Not a typo. VA and AZ both also had bullshit re: MLK day they only recently got unfucked.
Shit
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
Seems like a pretty straightforward statement. Most white people in Miss didnt reject Obama because he was black, it was mostly due to them being Republican because of "tradition" and "muh guns" and voting against their own interests. Miss is the poorest state in the USA, the majority of white voters (and black voters) would benefit from more liberal policies and the Democratic party hasnt been able to get that message across, that is the failing

And why are they Republican in the first place.

I wonder why so many white folks from WV rejected Obama in the face of Clinton losing the 08 primary?
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Bernie treats historical materialism as bedrock, as he should. The idea that having said worldview is somehow "unwoke" is borderline anachronistic.
The view that economics/class are the actual root of all other issues is a point of view that actively perpetuates harm towards minority groups by deliberately ignoring and not addressing the concerns of minority groups in favor of a "rising tide" philosophy.

This old-school 50s socialist view should have died off given the past 100 years - economic anxiety isn't why millions of Jews were murdered and there was massive white backlash to civil rights over the past 50 years leading to GOP dominance at the national level. But it's just too appealing a worldview for so many to give up.
 

Big Baybee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,783
What he said was dumb. Instead of defending this shitty statement, why not point out how bad of a take it was and push him and his campaign to do better in the future? This blind loyalty no matter what shit is getting old.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
"Because that's what my daddy was"

"Small gov'ment"

"Dont touch my guns"

I didnt say it comes from any thought-out or reasoned place, but it's a bit ridiculous to just flatly say that 90% of white people are racist in Miss like some in here are

You're doing a really bad job trying to dodge the obvious reason why a southern state has such a major GOP stronghold while trying to blame the opposing party that courts minority coalitions.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,979
Seems like a pretty straightforward statement. Most white people in Miss didnt reject Obama because he was black, it was mostly due to them being Republican because of "tradition" and "muh guns" and voting against their own interests. Miss is the poorest state in the USA, the majority of white voters (and black voters) would benefit from more liberal policies and the Democratic party hasnt been able to get that message across, that is the failing
Again, and this isn't a hard concept to grasp, the reason why white voters don't vote for politicians who who enact policies that would benefit them is because THEY. ARE. RACIST.

They vote against their own self interests in order to spite the other who would also benefit from those policies.

Thinking that Obama wasn't rejected because he was a black man is some hilarious shit too.

But you're on that copping for racist whites in the South shit so you do you.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
z4tr0yZ.png


CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT HAPPENED AFTER 1960. HOW DID THE DEMOCRATS ABANDON ALL THESE FOLKS?????
 

faceless

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,198
What he said was dumb. Instead of defending this shitty statement, why not point out how bad of a take it was and push him and his campaign to do better in the future? This blind loyalty no matter what shit is getting old.
Bernie supporters don't actually want him to get to the finals.

They just want to be able to say that he could have won if he did.
 

Avinash117

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,602
Seems like a pretty straightforward statement. Most white people in Miss didnt reject Obama because he was black, it was mostly due to them being Republican because of "tradition" and "muh guns" and voting against their own interests. Miss is the poorest state in the USA, the majority of white voters (and black voters) would benefit from more liberal policies and the Democratic party hasnt been able to get that message across, that is the failing

Their interest is not anything to do with class or economics, it is mostly cultural. With all the talk of class in America, Americans generally, don't identify with class the same way other people do in other countries. Some of the whites in Mississippi my be poor, but they care more about maintain racial and cultural supremacy. They don't want minorities to get the benefits of liberal policies that benefit everyone there. A candidate can go down there and explain in detail how some liberal policies will help their lives immensely, but a Republican can swoop in to say that those policies will help people that do not deserve it and more power will go to the government that is trying to take your guns.
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,433
I do think the 2020 Bernie campaign has been far better at addressing intersectional issues than the 2016 one, but comments like this make me question if it's any real change on Bernie's part or him simply being pulled that way by the younger progressive base, many who are people of color, that now fuel his grassroots efforts.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
I just can't fucking believe the Democratic Elite abandoned the people of Mississippi like that. 50+ years of leaving the working class behind, and for what???
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,227
Again, and this isn't a hard concept to grasp, the reason why white voters don't vote for politicians who who enact policies that would benefit them is because THEY. ARE. RACIST.

They vote against their own self interests in order to spite the other who would also benefit from those policies.

Obama did better in Miss in 08 than Bill Clinton did in 92
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
The view that economics/class are the actual root of all other issues is a point of view that actively perpetuates harm towards minority groups by deliberately ignoring and not addressing the concerns of minority groups in favor of a "rising tide" philosophy.

This old-school 50s socialist view should have died off given the past 100 years - economic anxiety isn't why millions of Jews were murdered and there was massive white backlash to civil rights over the past 50 years leading to GOP dominance at the national level. But it's just too appealing a worldview for so many to give up.
Johnson passed the biggest expansion of federal healthcare in US history, but did so in conjunction with the Civil Rights Act and thus 1964 was the last time a number of states ever voted Democratic at a presidential level.

Totally unrelated, I'm sure.

The fact that the Southern Fucking Strategy is an actual thing that exists, and that Republicans don't even try to pretend didn't exist, and you still have folks trying to chime in that all you have to do to win Mississippi is try and sell them on socialism is patently absurd.

If someone is 65 or older, they are right-leaning (not as much as boomers, but still), the most reliable voting bloc by far, and was at their youngest nine years old when the CRA was passed in 1964. Certain leftists talk about this like it's fucking ancient history and has nothing to do with the challenges Democrats face in the South and elsewhere.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
I do think the 2020 Bernie campaign has been far better at addressing intersectional issues than the 2016 one, but comments like this make me question if it's any real change on Bernie's part or him simply being pulled that way by the younger progressive base, many who are people of color, that now fuel his grassroots efforts.

that's politics, Bernie also figured out sometime in the last four years that immigration was good despite his previous positions, thankfully I don't expect politicians to be birthed as perfect forms from zeus's forehead and I accept that they follow the base as well as lead it
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
she's not but thanks for playing.
Oh god you were serious.

Literally the first result on Google

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/15/politics/kfile-marianne-williamson-anti-vaxxer-theories/index.html

Democratic presidential candidate and author Marianne Williamson once gave a platform to the unfounded theory that vaccines are linked to autism and called on her audience to "be awake" and "do your due diligence" before making the decision to vaccinate their children.

In a January 2012 episode of her radio show, "Living Miracuously," reviewed by CNN's KFile, Williamson said she "agonized" as a mother over the decision to vaccinate her children and that she could see "both sides" of the issue. Her guest, author Gwen Olsen, said on the program that she knew a number of people who were vaccinated and were later diagnosed with autism, to which Williamson responded, "Yes, absolutely."
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
leave orb mommy alone she's busy thinking really hard about love to stop the astroids that are trying to destroy us with negative energy
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,177
Seems like a pretty straightforward statement. Most white people in Miss didnt reject Obama because he was black, it was mostly due to them being Republican because of "tradition" and "muh guns" and voting against their own interests. Miss is the poorest state in the USA, the majority of white voters (and black voters) would benefit from more liberal policies and the Democratic party hasnt been able to get that message across, that is the failing
That's not what Bernie said either. He said not all of that 90% are racist, or will vote racist 100% of the time. He's basically saying there needs to be an effort to win over a small portion. Majority are racists and Bernie admits as much. Similarly he's also stated that those people can't be won over.

However this thread likes to deal in absolutes as if demagoguery isn't a thing.

I also find it confusing how evidence of demagoguery is somehow meaning that some of them can't be won over. Like "oh look they're voting against their own economic interests, that's evidence they can't be won over." That's literally the entire point. A small portion are tricked into directing their hate elsewhere from the ruling class. That's not to say that all of them or even a majority of them will jump sides and start voting against their racist interests. It's only to say that a portion does exist, who can be swayed to vote against their racist interests in favor of their class interests.

One interesting example is Kentucky. I'm not going to say "that's a great example proving this point recently." I'm only going to point out that it's an interesting development compared to Texas, which is more likely due to an increase of minorities, and left wing population moving there.

 
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