Bernie Sanders endorsed TYT founder and carpetbagger Cenk Uygur in CA 25 Congressional Race (UP: Sanders retracts endorsement) [SEE STAFF POST]

Big Baybee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,732
I really don’t understand why folks bend over backwards to support terrible people like Cenk or Tulsi, simply because they endorsed your guy. Bernie is better than endorsing someone like this. Not gonna cut him slack for doing a bad thing simply because I like the guy.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,125
Makes sense, he's a progressive candidate and will likely go against someone that's not progressive.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,738
Um?


Pretty sure Cenk Ugyur has made statements on his show in 2017 and 2019 respectively.
that’s a non-apology. There’s no direct I’m sorry, and he says he wasnt respectful of others’ opinions. That’s like saying “I didn’t realize others would be offended”. Furthermore, he continues to volunteer and financially support the TCA who strongly denies the Armenian genocide so...
 

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
25,600
Man, I totally think that people can say absolutely inexcusably shitty things, and then still be redeemed for them. Hell, I know I've voted for people who have said and did and supported absolutely terrible things because they were the best option available, and their politics were most aligned with mine.

But given the series of events that transpired that has lead to this election even happening, given how Katie Hill was forced out of Congress, I think it's unusually important to try and get a woman to win the seat, rather than someone who has said some terrible things about women. Even if he's changed for the better.
yeah it's probably the worst possible district he could have run for

also Hill never should have resigned
 

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
that’s a non-apology. There’s no direct I’m sorry, and he says he wasnt respectful of others’ opinions. That’s like saying “I didn’t realize others would be offended”. Furthermore, he continues to volunteer and financially support the TCA who strongly denies the Armenian genocide so...
Honest question, who are the TCA?
 

Poodlestrike

It's salt.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,890
You really shouldn't have included this. It makes you guys look like you have no idea how to handle the Michelle Obama issue and are just winging it. It makes the lock just look more kneejerk.
I'm not going to pretend we're all-knowing and perfect 100% of the time. This came up in the end of year thread - we're working on improving our communication so we can better handle stuff like this. No shame in admitting we're looking to improve, IMO.
 

BrutalInsane

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,080
Absolutely shocking that Bernard, the man who doesn't vet the people he surrounds himself with, would do something like this. Shocking!
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Um?


Pretty sure Cenk Ugyur has made statements on his show in 2017 and 2019 respectively.
I'll ask the same question I asked before: what has he actually done to show he recognizes the problem and make restitution for it?

It's easy to apologize. It's so easy he's done it like three times, apparently! But I'm not really sure why we should believe he really means it. What has he done to show how he has changed?
 

Deleted member 2426

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
Because he´s not gonna support someone who´s going to be against his policies. I think it would be different if two progressives were in the race. And i believe he wouldn´t want to have TYT turn on him.
No need to endorse someone at all. Specially when the race Cenk is in will be voted the same day as the California primary and the stink of misogyny is already present in the very reason why the race is happening. Sanders is asking for adversaries to tie him in with Cenk.

I feel like this endorsement is a disrespect to the biggest demographic support Bernie has behind him (young women).
 

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
25,600
I'll ask the same question I asked before: what has he actually done to show he recognizes the problem and make restitution for it?

It's easy to apologize. It's so easy he's done it like three times, apparently! But I'm not really sure why we should believe he really means it. What has he done to show how he has changed?
also that was a weak apology lol
 

SerAardvark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
499
Or check out this page: https://www.tc-america.org/issues-information/armenian-issue/no-armenian-genocide-358.htm

Very first article is titled: "THE ARMENIAN FORCED RELOCATION: PUTTING AN END TO MISLEADING SIMPLIFICATIONS "

All this on top of his other statements (including multiple hard r usages per the video on the last page)...you can do better.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,331
Seattle
I really don’t understand why folks bend over backwards to support terrible people like Cenk or Tulsi, simply because they endorsed your guy. Bernie is better than endorsing someone like this. Not gonna cut him slack for doing a bad thing simply because I like the guy.
Yeah I don’t get it either, it’s okay to disagree with your guy on somethings, like it somehow invalidates your support of Bernie If you dislike his endorsement
 

Seattle6418

Member
Oct 25, 2017
462
Brasília Brazil
When he announced i saw his video apologizing for some stupid shit he said and it got me thinking, i also said some very dumb things without knowing any better in the past. Wasn´t until my first girlfriend that i understood some things about feminism and misogyny. I believe i changed for the better.

Point is, i think it´s a good thing that people can improve and get better, so the hate on him is it because people believe he´s still the same person despite the apologies or because they think he never really changed his mind and the apologies are just a PR stunt?

There´s a good change AOC endorses him, because TYT was one of the only places that gave her a space to make her case for her election. In real life people do things in retribution, i´m sure people will go nuts if/when this happens.
 
Jun 20, 2019
1,374
I would like to know the difference in conditions between the case of James Gunn’s past tweets and statements and Cenk Uygur’s past teeets and statements. Era had many discussions spanning a term of months and through dozens of threads referencing the Gunn situation. The majority opinion here seemed to be that Gunn’s comments were forgivable because they were sufficiently long ago, they did not seem to reflect his current views, and he apologized. That was a perfectly acceptable position on this site and I rarely or never saw bans stemming from that position, even when insults were hurled very loudly at people who disagreed or at the people at Disney who made the decision to fire him. Gunn continues to enjoy very broad support here.

I look at the Gunn situation and at the Uygur situation side-by-side and I truly have no idea what is bannable and what is not in these kinds of cases.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
I would like to know the difference in conditions between the case of James Gunn’s past tweets and statements and Cenk Uygur’s past teeets and statements. Era had many discussions spanning a term of months and through dozens of threads referencing the Gunn situation. The majority opinion here seemed to be that Gunn’s comments were forgivable because they were sufficiently long ago, they did not seem to reflect his current views, and he apologized. That was a perfectly acceptable position on this site and I rarely or never saw bans stemming from that position, even when insults were hurled very loudly at people who disagreed or at the people at Disney who made the decision to fire him. Gunn continues to enjoy very broad support here.
James gunn isn't still supporting and posing for pictures with transphobic organiztations. Like Cenk is with political groups that still deny the aremnian genocide.
 

Joker Code

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
1,145
You dont see the problem with a myognist and a genocide denier?

And why would AoC endorse anyone in this race?
He is not a genocide denier. He made a video about it.
When Bernie campaigns in Cali AOC is probably going to be with him and they are friends.




Vote for Cenk!

(endorsed by Bernie Sanders 2020)
He made stupid comments that he has apologized for. If you think he is a misogynist and don’t want to vote for him that’s fine.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,834
When he announced i saw his video apologizing for some stupid shit he said and it got me thinking, i also said some very dumb things without knowing any better in the past. Wasn´t until my first girlfriend that i understood some things about feminism and misogyny. I believe i changed for the better.
Were you 40 years old and already a supposed progressive when you were saying misogynistc things to a large internet following, and now running for Congress? Because if you weren't, some might suggest there is a difference!
 

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
It's such a difficult balance to strike though, because we've got people over in the UK election thread backslapping the Scots for embracing their nationalism, yet we hang shit on Cenk for doing the same by associating with the TCA. I have no doubt they are the origin of his genocide denial to begin with, and continuing to stand beside them after supposedly retracting his comments isn't a good look either. He needed to repudiate that element of his Turkish identity completely.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
He is not a genocide denier. He made a video about it.
When Bernie campaigns in Cali AOC is probably going to be with him and they are friends.




He made stupid comments that he has apologized for. If you think he is a misogynist and don’t want to vote for him that’s fine.
He supports a political organization taht still denies the genocide and tries to 'revise' its historical nature. This is like someone claming they no longer deny the holocuast but still support people that say all the numbers about the holocuast are wrong and much smaller. (hint: those are still holocaust deniers)
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,738
It's such a difficult balance to strike though, because we've got people over in the UK election thread backslapping the Scots for embracing their nationalism, yet we hang shit on Cenk for doing the same by associating with the TCA. I have no doubt they are the origin of his genocide denial to begin with, and continuing to stand beside them after supposedly retracting his comments isn't a good look either. He needed to repudiate that element of his Turkish identity completely.
this isn’t the only turkish org in the us. There are others that don’t deny the genocide.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
It's such a difficult balance to strike though, because we've got people over in the UK election thread backslapping the Scots for embracing their nationalism, yet we hang shit on Cenk for doing the same by associating with the TCA. I have no doubt they are the origin of his genocide denial to begin with, and continuing to stand beside them after supposedly retracting his comments isn't a good look either. He needed to repudiate that element of his Turkish identity completely.
So denying the armenien genocide is just the 'cost' of supporting Turkish political groups?

But you just said he apologized? But he supports a group that still denies it? Just beacuse they are Turkish?
 

corasaur

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,679
I would like to know the difference in conditions between the case of James Gunn’s past tweets and statements and Cenk Uygur’s past teeets and statements. Era had many discussions spanning a term of months and through dozens of threads referencing the Gunn situation. The majority opinion here seemed to be that Gunn’s comments were forgivable because they were sufficiently long ago, they did not seem to reflect his current views, and he apologized. That was a perfectly acceptable position on this site and I rarely or never saw bans stemming from that position, even when insults were hurled very loudly at people who disagreed or at the people at Disney who made the decision to fire him. Gunn continues to enjoy very broad support here.

I look at the Gunn situation and at the Uygur situation side-by-side and I truly have no idea what is bannable and what is not in these kinds of cases.
we'd probably more carefully dissect Gunn's track record if he were carpetbagging for an elected position in a district vacated by a victim of revenge porn. we will not know if people think it is equivalent to Cenk's mess unless Gunn one day tries to be a politician.

The gunn stuff was also founded upon old twitter shitposts dredged up by alt-right trolls mad at him for publicly expressing progressive positions, and not recordings of him on camera as a grown man after beginning a politics-and-activism-adjacent career.
 

Suiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,916
tbh it doesn't seem like a great situation if folks are endorsing a candidate because they want to continue to receive favorable coverage from that candidate's media empire
Which is the other bit of this that's barely been discussed.
And another VERY GOOD reason Sanders should have stayed the fuck away.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
Alright, y'all. Obviously there's issues with the state of the thread, and comparisons to other threads. I'd like to try talking it out with people, which we can either do here, or via PMs, per preference.

Just to get the stuff a lot of people are talking about out of the way: Most common question seems to be about the bans and the unlock message. Long and short of it is, we feel like the case being made in the OP is fairly convincing re: Cenk's misogyny issues. So if you come into the thread and just post "yeah well I like him", it reads as dismissing all of that. Thus the bans, and the lengths.

The Michelle Obama thread is going to stay locked. The updated lock message goes over why - in short, we feel like that's significantly more complex than we can address right now, due to sitting at the intersection of a lot of sore spots. It's going to be one of the things we're talking about with various communities going forward, trying to figure out how best to handle topics like that.

Like I said, if you'd like to reach out to talk one on one about more specific issues, or if you want more on those ones, you can hit me up via PM or just quote me here.
Thank you for allowing us to have a public discourse on this. I truly appreciate the mod team being open about these issues and giving us the chance to weigh in. It means a lot, honestly.

I think its totally fair to come down on people who come into threads like this downplaying problematic comments and behavior as it relates to discrimination of any kind. However I do think its a bit strange to categorize the michelle thread as being an intersection of sore spots. We shouldn't let anyone come in and just cheer past discriminatory comments, but at the same time we should uphold that standard, just as much (if not more) to someone defending rehabilitating comments about a mass murdering war criminal, just because the person making them goes to bat for their team they root for. I understand that this is an incredibly big ask of some people ingrained within American politics to see past their biases for a second in order to not be so quick to defend such ignominious behavior. But we have members on this board, from all over the world, who may have been effected by these topics and actions that are essentially having to read the same types of responses downplaying and speaking past the issues at hand (just like in this thread) merely because the person in question is favorable to them.

If the michelle thread had been someone less liberal and less revered than michelle obama, those comments rehabilitating Bush would have been rightfully called out for what they were. And it would have been completely bipartisan. The issue a lot of us see is that when it comes from someone from the democratic party, we tend to let things slide far more than if it came from someone else. In the case of the latter we rightfully come down hard on them (and we should, we want this to be a welcoming place to everyone), whereas in the former we allow far more leeway and excusing of such behavior. The discrepancy of ban lengths and bans here in this thread for talking past a history of shitty comments vs literally excusing and rehabilitating war crimes is what seems to be the major issue when talking politics here.

Again thank you for giving us the space to talk about this openly with everyone.
 

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
So denying the armenien genocide is just the 'cost' of supporting Turkish political groups?
Not when there are other options like mugurumakensei said. If he has a choice to hang on to his nationalism without insulting the Armenians or denying their suffering, then of course that is what he should have done.

I'm still not sure that is enough to say he's a bad candidate for Congress, not when that shithole is already dominated by so many neoliberals and alt righters already. There are worse results for the Left than Cenk Uygur being elected.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
tbh it doesn't seem like a great situation if folks are endorsing a candidate because they want to continue to receive favorable coverage from that candidate's media empire
Not a horrible conflict of interest of course! especially since Cenk hasen't said how he is going to distance himself from his political network while running for office.
 

rickyson33

Member
Nov 23, 2017
843
this is a good example of the extreme loyalty thing that turns some of us off with Sanders

how hard would it have been for him to just....stay out of this?
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
we'd probably more carefully dissect Gunn's track record if he were carpetbagging for an elected position in a district vacated by a victim of revenge porn. we will not know if people think it is equivalent to Cenk's mess unless Gunn one day tries to be a politician.

The gunn stuff was also founded upon old twitter shitposts dredged up by alt-right trolls mad at him for publicly expressing progressive positions, and not recordings of him on camera as a grown man after beginning a politics-and-activism-adjacent career.
also the james gunn tweets are about pedophilia, and as far as I know, nobody thinks james gunn is a pedophile, while cenk ugyur got started in political journalism as an anti-choice, anti-feminist social conservative and so we literally already know he publicly identified as a misogynist for many years
 

Starmud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
786
i largely grew up in CA-25 and was thrilled to see the district changing enough (this isn't known as a liberal area) to get a democrat to represent us... that said, while the district may lean a bit dem today looking at the demographics, it has a large conservative block of Hispanic voters that could be make or break for a Dem. Katie hills win also came off a ton of energy out here against trump and the fact we had a viable chance to elect a woman to represent the district.

it would be really disappointing to see it flip back to the republicans after finally breaking their hold on it... that said, we already had a circus here when george papadopoulos entered the race. I can't see Cnek out performing the known local representative running for hills seat but the special election being on primary day could always make a mess of things... so, thanks for getting into the local stuff bernie :\
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,265
Houston
User Banned (5 Days): Trolling
a fake democrat supporting another fake one? not shocking
I'm sure people will drag up all his pass of being a conservative
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Not when there are other options like mugurumakensei said. If he has a choice to hang on to his nationalism without insulting the Armenians or denying their suffering, then of course that is what he should have done.

I'm still not sure that is enough to say he's a bad candidate for Congress, not when that shithole is already dominated by so many neoliberals and alt righters already. There are worse results for the Left than Cenk Uygur being elected.
Maybe not worse results for women but hey what’s women to the left right