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TerminusFox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,851
On the 50th anniversary of the death of Martin Luther King Jr., Bernie Sanders was in Jackson, Mississippi, to talk about economic justice. It was here, in a state with the highest percentage of black residents in the country, where Sanders registered one of the worst performances of his presidential campaign, losing all 82 counties, by a total of 66 points.

Two years later, on Wednesday night, there were cheers of "Feel the Bern!" in the hall as Sanders and the city's mayor, Chokwe Lumumba, discussed King's legacy.

But midway through the event in downtown Jackson, an uncertain silence fell over the audience.

"The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure," Sanders started, responding to a question about the young voters who supported his campaign. "People sometimes don't see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama, who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012.

"He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But behind that reality, over the last 10 years, Democrats have lost about 1,000 seats in state legislatures all across this country."

It's a criticism of President Obama's tenure that Sanders and plenty of others have made before. But the time and place for the remark — 50 years to the day after King's assassination, at an event to discuss that legacy — quickly shook loose old frustrations among Democrats who watched the senator struggle in 2016 to connect with black voters and speak to issues of racial justice.

Jeff Weaver, Sanders' longtime top strategist, said that people were misreading the senator's comment. "What Bernie was doing last night was praising the power and significance of the Barack Obama presidency, while at the same time pointing out that the national Democratic Party has had a lot of failures over the last 15 years, as evidenced by our loss of state legislative and congressional seats."

"One is not the cause of the other," Weaver said.

On a trip to Seattle in August 2015, Black Lives Matter activists interrupted two events in one day. The next day, in a meeting with Don't Shoot PDX, a Portland group loosely affiliated with Black Lives Matter, Sanders repeatedly answered questions by referring the activists to his campaign website. ("He said: 'I don't know you and u don't me, so you have to read my website, you can go on [there] and see my work and judge me from that,'" one attendee recalled in a Facebook post about the meeting.)

Around that time, the candidate brought on Symone Sanders to serve as his national press secretary and one of the first black faces of his campaign. During her first week on the job, she said, she told Sanders that he had to treat racial inequality and economic inequality as "parallel issues" — a suggestion she said he ran with. "I [told him], you know, economic equality is an issue. It's something we need to address. But for some people it doesn't matter how much money you make, it doesn't matter where you went to school, it doesn't matter what your parents do. It doesn't matter that Sandra Bland had a job and was on her way to teach for her alma mater. It doesn't matter. None of that matters."

By the time his campaign aides scrambled to release a detailed criminal justice platform on Aug. 9, Sanders was still struggling. In a September meeting with Campaign Zero, a movement formed out of the Ferguson protests, activists asked Sanders why, in his opinion, there were a disproportionate amount of people of color in jail for nonviolent drug offenses. Sanders, seated across the table, a yellow legal pad at hand, responded with a question of his own, according to two people present: "Aren't most of the people who sell the drugs African American?" The candidate, whose aides froze in the moment, was quickly rebuffed: The answer, the activists told him, was no. Even confronted with figures and data to the contrary, Sanders appeared to have still struggled to grasp that he had made an error, the two people present said.


https://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer...to-win-but-can?utm_term=.lgYLZBaBP#.hboAVyRy9

Article goes into much more detail about his past relationship with race and class.

[MOD EDIT: This thread has clearly derailed from actual discussion regarding the statements in the OP and continues to be yet another thread where the 2016 primaries (specifically, Hillary vs Bernie) are the main discussion. Either get back on topic or I'm locking this thread/taking action on offending posts.]

See: https://www.resetera.com/posts/6418480/
 
Last edited by a moderator:

T'Challa Shakur

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,487
Toronto
If America is ever going to heal, change and improve. White People need to do right by Black People.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
I'll quote myself from PoliERA:

Bernie's biggest problem is his stubbornness. If he would just apologize and go "hey, I was wrong and ignorant and I've learned and want to keep learning. I may be an old white guy who is out of touch but I want to correct that and here's how I'm going to do that" and then tie in his economic message to civil rights, it would smoothe things over a lot. But he won't do that. He always ends up on the attack.

[This was in response to Devine's statement:

Speaking by phone on Thursday, Weaver fired back at Sanders' critics. Sellers, he said, was attempting to sow "racial division" by "deliberately misinterpreting" the senator's remarks. ("My father was shot because of racial [division]," responded Sellers, whose father was shot during what became known as the Orangeburg Massacre in 1968. "[Weaver] should find another line of attack, because I will not dignify that.")]
 

plagiarize

It's not a loop. It's a spiral.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,559
Cape Cod, MA
He's an out of touch old white guy from a lily white state. Not to say his heart isn't in the right place, but that's the truth. Biden isn't that different, although his state isn't *quite* as white, so if anything he's got less of an excuse.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,410
Phoenix
Yeesh. Disappointing to say the least. It seems the guy just stopped thinking about race once he came to the conclusion that the real problem is economic equality and race issues would be solved through that. The problem there is that is puts aside racial inequality and that's the reason he couldn't win the nomination and also the reason he won't win it in 2020. Hopefully he doesn't run.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I'll quote myself from PoliERA:

Bernie's biggest problem is his stubbornness. If he would just apologize and go "hey, I was wrong and ignorant and I've learned and want to keep learning. I may be an old white guy who is out of touch but I want to correct that and here's how I'm going to do that" and then tie in his economic message to civil rights, it would smoothe things over a lot. But he won't do that. He always ends up on the attack.

[This was in response to Devine's statement:

Speaking by phone on Thursday, Weaver fired back at Sanders' critics. Sellers, he said, was attempting to sow "racial division" by "deliberately misinterpreting" the senator's remarks. ("My father was shot because of racial [division]," responded Sellers, whose father was shot during what became known as the Orangeburg Massacre in 1968. "[Weaver] should find another line of attack, because I will not dignify that.")]
Weaver and Devine still being around is an example of the stubbornness/refusal to learn issue
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
His comments weren't wrong, though. Plenty of people just saw Obama and voted for him while ignoring midterms (Obama himself spoke plenty of times about being frustrated by this) and helped enable the Republicans to maintain their dominance. That's not Obama's failing, that's everyone's.

That doesn't mitigate his understandable failure to connect with minorities, and I don't see any reason that observation shields him from warranted criticism, but "now isn't the right time to talk about X" is usually not a great rebuttal to anything.
 

Hindl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,668
His comments weren't wrong, though. Plenty of people just saw Obama and voted for him while ignoring midterms (Obama himself spoke plenty of times about being frustrated by this) and helped enable the Republicans to maintain their dominance. That's not Obama's failing, that's everyone's.

That doesn't mitigate his understandable failure to connect with minorities, and I don't see any reason that observation shields him from warranted criticism, but "now isn't the right time to talk about X" is usually not a great rebuttal to anything.
This isn't about the Obama quote

This is just a racist quote
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Weren't you the guy who posted the last hit peice article in the thread that got locked?
 

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,576
Interestingly enough, I've seen several African-American people on Twitter defending these comments. Basically a, "Well, no other democrats care about the AA community, either, so I don't have a problem with it." Very strange.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
This article is not a hit piece.

Ok. I mean the article takes his obama comments out of context and then deliberately, uncharitably, frames him being ignorant of something and asking a question. You can think what you want, the article is clearly written as red meat to stoke the meaningless democrat divide.
 

Deleted member 3897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,638

tsmoreau

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,440
Cantankerous old white man from Vermont once made horribly racist and inaccurate statement without nuance, subtlety or empathy in attempt to speak truth.

I ain't surprised.

Hard to see shit accurately you've never been down from the ivory tower.
 
OP
OP
TerminusFox

TerminusFox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,851
Thats not even a dog whistle... thats as overt as it gets


I come from a state where there is virtually no gun control. But the people of my state understand, pretty clearly, that guns in Vermont are not the same thing as guns in Chicago or Los Angeles. In our state, guns are used for hunting. In Chicago they are used for kids killing other kids or gang members shooting at police officers, shooting down innocent people. We need a sensible debate about gun control, which overcomes the cultural divide that exists in this country, and I think I can play an important role in this.

Dog Whistle so loud, it's almost a bullhorn.
 

Joe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
I'll quote myself from PoliERA:

Bernie's biggest problem is his stubbornness. If he would just apologize and go "hey, I was wrong and ignorant and I've learned and want to keep learning. I may be an old white guy who is out of touch but I want to correct that and here's how I'm going to do that" and then tie in his economic message to civil rights, it would smoothe things over a lot. But he won't do that. He always ends up on the attack.

[This was in response to Devine's statement:

Speaking by phone on Thursday, Weaver fired back at Sanders' critics. Sellers, he said, was attempting to sow "racial division" by "deliberately misinterpreting" the senator's remarks. ("My father was shot because of racial [division]," responded Sellers, whose father was shot during what became known as the Orangeburg Massacre in 1968. "[Weaver] should find another line of attack, because I will not dignify that.")]

Weaver and Devine still being around is an example of the stubbornness/refusal to learn issue

Agreed on both.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,410
Phoenix
Weren't you the guy who posted the last hit peice article in the thread that got locked?
No it wasn't the same poster it was jack something. And I also don't necessarily agree with the conclusion the mods came to closing the thread that Bernie's comment was a compliment to Obama. Maybe a backhanded compliment at best.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Thats not even a dog whistle... thats as overt as it gets

It's not a dog whistle, it was his honest thought behind closed doors. A racist thought but not in the "I hate black people" way but in the "I'm ignorant about this and assume a stereotype" way. I would actually expect that he thought most drug dealers were black because there's a lot of poor black people and poor people = drugs, and as we know, Bernie's view of things revolves entirely around an economic axis. So I don't think this was malevolent, just ignorant.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,945
It's pretty easy to say that the Democratic party of the last 15-20 years is a failure when you only formally joined the party in the last 3. Nothing better than standing outside the tent pissing in than the other way around
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,410
Phoenix
No I have not read the article. Now I know he was wrong.



Won't it? At least parts of it?
Maybe? But it's a near impossible situation to solve just as racial inequality is. You can address both at the same time except Bernie doesn't seem to really want to. Hence he seems dismissive of the plight of minorities, to minorities.
 

Deleted member 3897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,638
Yes. I know you're not American, so our media's portrayal of things may have colored your perception, but there are more white drug dealers than black. This is the same fallacy Bernie - who comes from a hugely white state - fell into.

So I and Bernie kinda fell into the same fallacy, does it mean we are both racists? Cause it's apparently a racist thing to say according to some people in this thread.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Wow y'all I think Bernie Sanders might have a pattern of being a mother fucking racist piece of shit crazy considering no one seemed to be saying this all throughout his primary run in 2016 hmmmmmmmmmmmm
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
It's not a dog whistle, it was his honest thought behind closed doors. A racist thought but not in the "I hate black people" way but in the "I'm ignorant about this and assume a stereotype" way. I would actually expect that he thought most drug dealers were black because there's a lot of poor black people and poor people = drugs, and as we know, Bernie's view of things revolves entirely around an economic axis. So I don't think this was malevolent, just ignorant.

Exactly that.

It's pretty easy to say that the Democratic party of the last 15-20 years is a failure when you only formally joined the party in the last 3. Nothing better than standing outside the tent pissing in than the other way around

The obsession with true Scotsman gets people nowhere. Nice informal fallacy.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Didn't Clinton catch flak for being loyal to her friends, even though they were embarrassments? Bernie should reassess who he's surrounding himself with
She attempted to fix that in 16, but it turned out it still would have come out as an issue with that religious advisor who harassed a staffer, since she couldn't cut personal ties w him.

People dont really change who they are. People who lean too tightly on inner circles aren't going to suddenly stop doing that.
 

Ventilation Stick

Alt account
Banned
Apr 2, 2018
283
If America is ever going to heal, change and improve. White People need to do right by Black People.

But that's not going to happen if white progressives keep calling pro-black individuals extremists who only just want black business an economics to return. Or calling blacks brown people, or poc, which just gives an excuse to ignore blacks for others.
 
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