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Bernie Sanders releases Comprehensive Immigration Plan - Abolishes ICE/CBP and Empowers Workers.

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,576
I don't quite understand one thing. DACA is in place, good. For the other undocumented immigrants, I'm not sure how you prevent them from being exploited seeing as how they're not supposed to be working legally (for the most part) anyway. Of course they're going to have to work to live, so how do you prevent them from being paid under the table and exploited anyway?
 

Draper

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,589
Harrisburg, PA
The weird thing is this thread will get no traction yet these are deeply important things. Is it just because it's not coming from Warren's mouth? Why treat politics like the NFL?
 

John Dunbar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,433
you don't often get a second chance, but when you do you can bet on america fucking it up again.
 

Tharp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,109
"He's a white male" or "He's too old"
I think those are both valid. For me his age is a concern, especially after his recent heart problems.

But he's still my preferred candidate and it just means his VP pick is all the more important, and hopefully would be someone who could run with his ideas if need be.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,866
I always go from "fuck yeah these policies" to "oh wait this has to pass through legislature"

:(
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
527
The weird thing is this thread will get no traction yet these are deeply important things. Is it just because it's not coming from Warren's mouth? Why treat politics like the NFL?
There's not much to argue about so what else people going to say ;) It's a good plan, there's not much else to say in my view.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,243
USA
To be objective if there is a impeachment trial, Bernie would have to stay in DC and not campaign, but Biden can. The man is in a disadvantage if a trial happens
True, but again there's a lot that can happen now and a year. Also it could be a very fast trial due to Republican fuckery
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,381
The weird thing is this thread will get no traction yet these are deeply important things. Is it just because it's not coming from Warren's mouth? Why treat politics like the NFL?

This didn't get traction and it outlines where every candidate stands on major issues. The threads that go on and on are the more controversial ones.
 

NSA

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,838
California
The most sweeping part of the plan: a proposal to use executive action to protect unauthorized immigrants who have lived in the US for more than five years from deportation, which, according to the Pew Research Center’s estimate, would cover almost 9 million people
What about the people here less than 5 years?
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,088
... but why? Bernie consistently has the better policies, I don't know what Warren would add that Bernie is somehow missing.
Yeah it really doesn't make any sense. Nor are the two interchangeable. Bernie is pretty more progressive on most metrics , if on par on some, and has a much more progressive foreign policy stance. They aren't interchangeable.
 

ChaosXVI

Member
Oct 25, 2017
501
Very good plan by Bernie. I keep going back and forth if I want him or Warren to get the nom. I'm down for either of them, but when it comes time to vote in the primary, I'm kind of stuck, and I worry that having both of them may split the progressive vote, leading to a centrist securing the win.
 

obelisk

Banned
Nov 7, 2019
3
User Banned (Permanent): Troll account
Could someone explain to me why there's so much negativity directed towards ICE? There are, of course, some agents within it that are bad, but this is to be expected of practically any organization of its scale, and there are far more agents who mean to do good. They do excellent work in stopping human and drug trafficking, curbing gang crime, and will also provide aid in times of natural disasters. In addition, they deport illegal immigrants in our country, which in my opinion should not be frowned upon.

I genuinely don't want to start any fights or arguments here, but after seeing how everyone had a very similar opinion on the topic I couldn't help from providing my own.
 

Kay

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
429
Could someone explain to me why there's so much negativity directed towards ICE? There are, of course, some agents within it that are bad, but this is to be expected of practically any organization of its scale, and there are far more agents who mean to do good. They do excellent work in stopping human and drug trafficking, curbing gang crime, and will also provide aid in times of natural disasters. In addition, they deport illegal immigrants in our country, which in my opinion should not be frowned upon.

I genuinely don't want to start any fights or arguments here, but after seeing how everyone had a very similar opinion on the topic I couldn't help from providing my own.
When lefties say 'abolish ice' they (usually) are leaving out the second part which is 'replace it with something better'. Those roles you listed are important but can be done by a far more sympathetically designed organisation.

edit: ofc the range of opinions on the left can also span over too 'immigrants shouldn't be deported because they are just a scapegoat for capital inequalities created domestically' and that gang crime is exacerbated by the war on drugs and awful foreign policy. In which case if those things are fixed then ICE would have no purpose
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,576
I think those are both valid. For me his age is a concern, especially after his recent heart problems.

But he's still my preferred candidate and it just means his VP pick is all the more important, and hopefully would be someone who could run with his ideas if need be.
Yeah, if you vote for Bernie you better really, really like his choice for VP. If it's Yang, I'm not going to be happy (I mean, I would still choose him over you know who, of course)
 

SinkFla

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,257
Pensacola, Fl
I swear, if America fucks this up and doesn't elect Bernie or Warren....
I like what I'm reading up there. While not an immigrant I'm going through my own workplace debacle ATM and it's amazing how freely corporations can ream their workers in an at will state. And to think of how much worse it is for immigrants is really sad.

Sadly though I just have little faith in this country anymore, well no faith to be exact. Basic human decency gets labled "socialist extremism".
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,619
Could someone explain to me why there's so much negativity directed towards ICE? There are, of course, some agents within it that are bad, but this is to be expected of practically any organization of its scale, and there are far more agents who mean to do good. They do excellent work in stopping human and drug trafficking, curbing gang crime, and will also provide aid in times of natural disasters. In addition, they deport illegal immigrants in our country, which in my opinion should not be frowned upon.

I genuinely don't want to start any fights or arguments here, but after seeing how everyone had a very similar opinion on the topic I couldn't help from providing my own.
Here's the thing about ICE: all of those positive things you just named that ICE does? Those are all under the purview of the FBI. If ICE were abolished, FBI could just take over all of ICE's funding to fight those very issues. The problem with ICE is that their mandate is specifically tied to immigration. Meaning they are incentivized to go after all forms of undocumented immigrants as a directive, not just undocumented immigrants who are committing serious crimes (crimes that, again, are already under the purview of the FBI). They are a completely unnecessary organization unless you think the mass deportation of undocumented immigrants purely for being undocumented is a good thing. If you do think that, then I can't help you because you have a fucked up worldview.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,003
What about the people here less than 5 years?
They wouldn't be protected because they wouldn't be considered "established" within communities.


This is a great resource for people to understand the current situation regarding the undocumented population in America.



Simply put, the majority of people living in America undocumented have been here for years, the focus needs to be on them in terms of expending political capital to protect them so we don't break families up, and protect them from future right wing administrations that treats their existence as a crime.
 

UA_LVIV

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 7, 2019
3
I mean it’s a logical solution to the problem. But obviously Republicans are not interested in that.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,003
I mean it’s a logical solution to the problem. But obviously Republicans are not interested in that.
Executive agencies are created by the Executive Branch, you wouldn't need anyone from the legislative branch to put the re-distribution of work from ICE into action.


Department of Defense
Department of Homeland Security
Department of Education
Department of Justice
Department of Commerce
Department of State
Department of Labor


All of that falls under Executive Branch. ICE is currently under DoH (Homeland Security), it's duties would be cut up between Justice, State and Treasury
 

JealousKenny

Member
Jul 17, 2018
1,189
There needs to be just as much space given to discussing what is going to replace ICE as there is to abolishing it. It's necessary to do so because if you don't it's easy for the opposition to run with the narrative that you embrace illegal immigration. That's not a winning position. If you just say "Ice was started in 2003 let's just go to the time before that, you will lose a lot of votes".