I said 'major candidate'.
I said 'major candidate'.
You could just give the funding to the FBI instead. Who will use it to combat more serious problems.There needs to be just as much space given to discussing what is going to replace ICE as there is to abolishing it. It's necessary to do so because if you don't it's easy for the opposition to run with the narrative that you embrace illegal immigration. That's not a winning position. If you just say "Ice was started in 2003 let's just go to the time before that, you will lose a lot of votes".
You literally just give the funding to the FBI instead. Who will use it to combat more serious problems.
Cot damnit. See that is what I'm afraid Bernie's answer would be when he gets on stage with Trump. If he said that Trump would steamroll him. Perception is reality and if you travel this country and listen to people you would pick up very quickly that illegal immigration is viewed as a serious problem. Saying you would give the money to the FBI to combat more serious problems is essentially saying illegal immigration isn't a serious problem to you.
Bernie currently has an issue connecting with African American voters, he gets up there and says that shit during a primary and he is fucked.
Bernie said in a recent interview with Mehdi Hasan in a question about Warren as VP, "Obviously If I'm fortunate enough to become the democratic nominee and President of the United States, I would look absolutely to Elizabeth Warren as somebody who would play a very, very important role in everything we're doing."Yeah, if you vote for Bernie you better really, really like his choice for VP. If it's Yang, I'm not going to be happy (I mean, I would still choose him over you know who, of course)
It's not a serious problem. People only think it is due to racism. Also no idea why you are bringing up black voters, I'm almost positive immigration is low on their list of concerns.Cot damnit. See that is what I'm afraid Bernie's answer would be when he gets on stage with Trump. If he said that Trump would steamroll him. Perception is reality and if you travel this country and listen to people you would pick up very quickly that illegal immigration is viewed as a serious problem. Saying you would give the money to the FBI to combat more serious problems is essentially saying illegal immigration isn't a serious problem to you.
Bernie currently has an issue connecting with African American voters, he gets up there and says that shit during a primary and he is fucked.
Always interesting to see non-US folks siding with Bernie. Trust me, I'm trying to do my part! Just another plan to push him even further to lead the pack.
So if we stop trying to tackle the major drug problem in the United States and improve our foreign policy gang crime will be fixed? There has always been gang crime in America, especially at the border. In addition, there are numerous examples of illegal immigrants who do cause harm in local communities and aren't simply used as a "scapegoat for capital inequalities."When lefties say 'abolish ice' they (usually) are leaving out the second part which is 'replace it with something better'. Those roles you listed are important but can be done by a far more sympathetically designed organisation.
edit: ofc the range of opinions on the left can also span over too 'immigrants shouldn't be deported because they are just a scapegoat for capital inequalities created domestically' and that gang crime is exacerbated by the war on drugs and awful foreign policy. In which case if those things are fixed then ICE would have no purpose
The mass deportation of illegal immigrants is not done on general principle. There is a fully legal way to enter our country, and if you genuinely do need to seek asylum there is a valid method to do that as well. I cannot sympathize with people who get detained whilst trying to cross our borders in an illegitimate way.Here's the thing about ICE: all of those positive things you just named that ICE does? Those are all under the purview of the FBI. If ICE were abolished, FBI could just take over all of ICE's funding to fight those very issues. The problem with ICE is that their mandate is specifically tied to immigration. Meaning they are incentivized to go after all forms of undocumented immigrants as a directive, not just undocumented immigrants who are committing serious crimes (crimes that, again, are already under the purview of the FBI). They are a completely unnecessary organization unless you think the mass deportation of undocumented immigrants purely for being undocumented is a good thing. If you do think that, then I can't help you because you have a fucked up worldview.
There's quite a bit of research to say that illegal immigration is a net gain for an economy. This is predicated predominantly on two things.
1) They are paid under the value of the labour they provide.
2) While they pay VAT, they cannot get any returns on that tax that they pay.
If you think something like ICE is necessary, you've been hoodwinked. Please consider how much wealth and resources that the US has hoarded and tell me its justified.
The asylum system is complete bullshit, it does not come even remotely close to addressing the need that exists. It needs significant reforms, but the people fleeing violence, disease, and starvation don't have the luxury of waiting for those reforms. So they cross the border.So if we stop trying to tackle the major drug problem in the United States and improve our foreign policy gang crime will be fixed? There has always been gang crime in America, especially at the border. In addition, there are numerous examples of illegal immigrants who do cause harm in local communities and aren't simply used as a "scapegoat for capital inequalities."
What kind of "sympathetically designed organization" do you have in mind?
The mass deportation of illegal immigrants is not done on general principle. There is a fully legal way to enter our country, and if you genuinely do need to seek asylum there is a valid method to do that as well. I cannot sympathize with people who get detained whilst trying to cross our borders in an illegitimate way.
Immigration into the United States is something everyone should embrace, as it is what built our country and is what makes our country what it is today. By allowing people to stay here illegally, the immigrants that have taken time, money, and effort to migrate here are overshadowed by those who simply disregard and disrespect our laws.
You give them legal status.So following this, if they are paid at the value of the labour they provide, which is what Bernie wants and presumably what most supporters want, doesn't that net gain become a negative? I still don't get how you can guarantee wages to a group of people who legally aren't supposed to be working.
So if we stop trying to tackle the major drug problem in the United States
Weird that the usual suspects derailing Bernie threads haven't made an appearance in this one.
You started quite a few threads here to disparage Bernie Sanders on here. I'm glad you are being less negative toward his platform these days. Is it this plan that has changed your mind?
You started quite a few threads here to disparage Bernie Sanders on here. I'm glad you are being less negative toward his platform these days. Is it this plan that has changed your mind?
Kirblar is banned rn.Weird that the usual suspects derailing Bernie threads haven't made an appearance in this one.
You prolly just summoned them. This tends to happen.
lol what did he do
Then these people should be Mexico's problem, not ours. We already have a hard time as it is providing for our poor, so how should we care for Mexico's impoverished as well? I'm all for sending aid, but we simply cannot take in every person who wants to flee their country, especially considering there have been multiple instances where they have brought over drugs and crime.The asylum system is complete bullshit, it does not come even remotely close to addressing the need that exists. It needs significant reforms, but the people fleeing violence, disease, and starvation don't have the luxury of waiting for those reforms. So they cross the border.
If the laws are leaving people to die then guess what? They are immoral and should be disobeyed. Legality is not morality. These people just want to be able to live their lives, provide for their children. The immigration system as it stands now is a wealth/priviledge barrier.
So then there would be no benefit to entering the country legally? If we're just going to give everyone who jumps the border legal status, why don't we go ahead and open the flood gates already? You have to enter the country legally or you get deported. That's how it always has been and how it always will be. We've already seen what taking in thousands of refugees has done to countries in Europe and I'd rather not that happen here.
Could you tell me what possible benefit could arise from disenfranchising black people and democrats? Anyhow, this quote is completely unverified and not confirmed by any source except the interviewer who just somehow remembered it after Ehrlichman had died.You can't tackle the drug problem in the US by trying to throw cops at it. The war on drugs wasn't even meant to curtail drug use, it was just trying to disenfranchise people who did use drugs, i.e., poor black people and leftists.
Time to post it again
So then there would be no benefit to entering the country legally? If we're just going to give everyone who jumps the border legal status, why don't we go ahead and open the flood gates already?
Tell the fucked up stories about what ICE does and say "we're not doing that, but we will still have border security"This all sounds great, but how do you convince all the people who see illegal immigration as a serious problem that this a good idea? I don't want to hear those people don't matter, because those people vote in droves and got us Trump, ignoring them will only get Trump re-elected. I'm constantly trying to think how one shifts the view of those voters just enough to get some out of the crazy bin into the "I'll listen with an open mind" bin.
So I ask, what is the realistic way to communicate this in a way to voters who can be swayed to help him win? I fear the right will have a very easy time tearing this apart.
This all sounds great, but how do you convince all the people who see illegal immigration as a serious problem that this a good idea?
Because that's what they've been brainwashed to believe by certain parties of the media, the far right, Trump and some need a scape goat to blame. That's what we're all fighting, brain washing and false information. I don't know the answer to solve it, I'm just posing the question.
Derailed a thread about Glen Greenwald getting attacked in Brazil by a Bolsonaro supporter.
This thread isn't about this.Derailed a thread about Glen Greenwald getting attacked in Brazil by a Bolsonaro supporter.
Sorry, they asked.
Could you tell me what possible benefit could arise from disenfranchising black people and democrats?
Customs? Sure. Boarder patrol? Maybe, but they could use some serious reform (like most law enforcement in this country). Sanders' proposal has nothing to do with CBP thoughI am all for getting rid of ICE, but I believe you still need some form of Customs Border Patrol
Don't bother, seems like they were just trolling.You need me to explain the fundamentals of election rigging and political imprisonment? The quote may be manufactured but even so the statistics of enforcement of drug crimes speak for itself (stuff like marijuana is used in equal levels by most ethnic groups, but it's minorities who actually get arrested on felony charges)
Customs? Sure. Boarder patrol? Maybe, but they could use some serious reform (like most law enforcement in this country). Sanders' proposal has nothing to do with CBP though
To break up ICE and CBP, under Sanders's platform, their functions would be redistributed to other federal agencies.
CBP is in the title of the thread and in the OP
I'm all for reform. Maybe you split them up. But they do serve a necessity.