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Bernie Sanders shown on video supporting 1994 crime bill "US needs more jails"
- Thread starter BoboBrazil
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Why do the misdeeds of fanatic supporters have any influence on what should or shouldnt be done?
Biden was the only one in the Senate at the time it passed, and he's acknowledged it had major flaws but thinks elements like the VAWA and Sex Offender Registry were net positives. Hell, Hillary was expected to defend the bill, even though she wasn't in Congress when it passed, but because her husband signed it. Bill Clinton himself apologized for it though and it made no difference, Hillary was still attacked for him supporting it in 94.
Bernie Sanders is OVER
Congratulations to Pete Buttigieg, the 46th President of the United States.
Congratulations to Pete Buttigieg, the 46th President of the United States.
Bernie is surging and daily smear threads won't stop a mass movement.
Would you like some pepper with that salt?
Would you like some pepper with that salt?
Funny how its always the 'bad seeds' when its about the asymetrical nature of the response to Criticism of Bernie vs other canidates.
I guess it was just the bad supporters that shit up multiple threads about the Bernie vs Warren argument? Seems like then that Bernie has alot of bad supporters on this forum because those threads all together had thousands upon thousands of posts.
There are two camps on this board that are anti Bernie. Warren stans that believe Bernie should be replaced with their candidate and are desperate because she's dropping like a rock, and Hillary stans secretly backing Warren because they don't want to be wrong about 2016. They know if Bernie wins here, everything they did in 2016 was wrong because Bernie should've had the nomination back then.
That's my take.
Well, despite the fact we agree on never trusting a politician too much, I would say that despite his occassional bad takes that he probably is the most consistent left leaning politician in the US. It's not irreconcilable unless you run into one of the crazies who says he has never done anything wrong, but I think those people are just attached to celebrity at that point.
Out of curiosity, what separates a smear from a legitimate criticism? Because nobody seems to think any criticism is legitimate.
Those really aren't irreconcilable. Bernie has been very consistent, but not 100% consistent, and he's got a record that he can stand behind, with some points of contention that he generally acknowledges as compromises he took. This differs from Biden outright lying about his record on social security or the effects of this crime bill; in both cases the context and the consistency is what tells us how to seriously to take any change of heart or regret on a specific vote.
People arguing against Bernie by making the conversation only about his most annoying fanboys undermine their own argument because those of us who've decided Bernie's the one, flaws and all, aren't going to change our minds just because there's some a-holes who love him; there's been plenty of a-holes endorsing every candidate I've ever voted for.
Smear threads take quotes out of context or even fabricate them, hype up the claim beyond its merits, ignore context, act as a "gotcha!"
There have been a lot of them aimed at Bernie recently, at least one of which was locked for lack of truth to the claims being made.
That's a terrible take. You are just fabricating things. As someone who see politicians for what they are, there is definitely a fanaticism associated with Bernie. I like Bernie, quite a bit, but he is not infalible.
This is a great opportunity for people to start applying a consistent standard across all candidates with regard to their past mistakes.
This is a non-story. He has explained why he supported the bill at the time and has since repudiated it.
When Obama wore that tan colored coat you would've thought he declared that he was heading the Nazi party
Oh I'm not arguing that he's the most left leaning mainstream politician in America. That's indisputable IMO. For me I just want other Bernie supporters to be able to mount a better defense than 'purity tests are bad', because I don't feel like that gels with how many purity tests they administer to other candidates. It does come off as hypocritical.
Mind you, I'm also fully willing to argue that, for instance, Warren has an obnoxious cult of personality surrounding her that makes many hypocritical arguments, but they ain't ready for that.
These past few weeks remind me of when people try to get evangelicals to vote Democrat because Trump got a divorce, even though he's installing judges with lifelong terms that want to repeal abortion every month, and then are shocked when they don't care too much
but instead of horrible shit it's a guy who wants to prevent people from dying because they can't afford insulin
but instead of horrible shit it's a guy who wants to prevent people from dying because they can't afford insulin
I have no idea. You didnt see me saying anything. Either way I couldnt care less who didnt or did support it. I care about the policies the candidates are presenting today.
This is my stance as well. This vote isn't a new development and was also known back during the 2016 primary and was later brought up earlier in the year in July by CNN again. https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/28/politics/bernie-sanders-not-happy-terrible-1994-crime-bill/index.html
In what way is this a smear? He no longer supports his position here and it won't change my support of him, but it's does a disservice to Sanders and the rest of the country to not recognize legit criticisms, even if they're older.
He's still by far the best candidate in the race, but we shouldn't approach criticisms as with or against.
Ok. If you're tripping on the title ask a mod to move the quotation to US needs "more jail."
Bernie has always been a "tough on crime" guy and he was proud of that too until he started eyeing a run for President.
Gee, I wonder what the other candidates stances were at this time.
Cool, maybe at some point people will hold Warren accountable for her racist 'interfaith' council fuck-up from a couple of days ago where she forgot PoC other than black folks existed and even managed to forget about the Catholic church.
But you know trying to launch an interfaith council only featuring Protestant pastors, a Rabi, and a white sensai clearly isn't even thread-worthy here.
Cool, maybe at some point people will hold Warren accountable for her racist 'interfaith' council fuck-up from a couple of days ago where she forgot PoC other than black folks existed and even managed to forget about the Catholic church.
But you know trying to launch an interfaith council only featuring Protestant pastors, a Rabi, and a white sensai clearly isn't even thread-worthy here.
Then dont try to minimize the vitriol on this side of the forum to 'just a few bad seeds' when that's anything but true. it exists, its real and it has happened repeatedly.
This OP is really disingenuous as several people on the first page managed to point out.
Don't do it if he decides to follow you on twitter.
Why is it so difficult to admit that people aren't infallible? Bernie is still an amazing person and a great candidate with a legitimate opportunity at being President, it's okay, you can admit that he has his faults. Clutching your pearls, plugging your ears, and labeling any criticism as baseless attacks by the status quo to prevent a true change candidate from taking the White House by storm sounds very familiar - and it truly needs to stop. Unrelenting blind fanaticism is never a good thing.
Well the only one with a relevant stance is Joe Biden, and he has since acknowledged the bill had major flaws, but defends his vote.
You mean the incomplete list published by her campaign and immediately retracted once they realized it was a mistake?
Was something stopping you from creating a thread about your concerns on this?
This is a great article thanks for sharing. It's super disingenuous how people equate Biden's vote for this legislation to Sanders'.
To be a hypocrite it has to be the same person. Why are some of you trying to paint broad strokes for past grudges?
I'm not having the same conversation with you again given how it went last time and it's almost like the fact they tried to release it in the form they did was concerning in the first place? Also it clearly wasn't a mistake as much as they didn't foresee the backlash and immediately tried to nuke it.
Then
"Bernie isn't a viable condidate because he had a heart attack"
Now
"Bernie isn't a viable condidate because he lied about having a heart attack"
We've finally unlocked the level beyond Galaxy Brain
I really don't want the attention of a political OT here. Especially given what topics has been deleted for being hostile and what haven't over the last week.
I hate to copy/paste from those previous locked threads, but it still applies here, as this is a very misleading non-story:
If we're seriously going to go into overdrive spinning tiny stuff into huge fights, we will never survive this election cycle. Stop it.
If we're seriously going to go into overdrive spinning tiny stuff into huge fights, we will never survive this election cycle. Stop it.
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