Bernie Sanders: White People Uncomfortable About Voting for Black Candidates Not Necessarily Racist

[ThisThingIsUseful]

Ehh, this doesn't really change what he said. He's only saying the campaigns against them were racist, but still fails to explain how the people, who were affected and didn't vote for those candidates because they were non-white, aren't

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It does in the sense that he's well aware that racism was used against them; he doesn't think he should call these racially-charged campaigns. They're racist campaigns. For the people, replace "aren't necessarily racist" to "don't feel they are" (which, again, doesn't actually mean they aren't) and that's the point. It's badly worded, but the main point he's making is that many white people do harbor racist views due to discomfort with black Americans, and the campaigns prey on that and affected the races on the margins. He's also saying that those who ran progressive campaigns in these redder states like Florida and Texas did a better job than the ones in Indiana and Tennessee because they excited progressives.

 

[Deleted member 14459]

Congrats Bernie, you done shot your own rhetoic in the foot.

Several of the candidates of color were pretty progressive. So either...

A) They weren't voted in because the voters didn't like their policies. Which means America are not secret liberals

B) They weren't voted in due to the color of their skin, so they are in fact racist.

OOPS!

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This is in fact the question he is addressing thriughout the text. He is literally saying B) the progressive candidates did not fold because of being progressive but due to racist propaganda... but then he does a really moronic thing and says the people with racist motives are not racist but under a veil of ignorance produced by racist structures.

It is a classic structure /agency argument gone awry... not the first time for him...

 

[OrangeNova]

Fuck that Bernie, I don't even want to see what the candidates I'm voting for anything look like. Leave any prejudice at the door and let your deeds and platform speak for you.

 

[BGA]

There goes his 2020 chances to run as a Democrat.

 

[Commedieu]

I don't understand why this is sprawling into a debate like this.

Bernie made a tone-deaf, pretty stupid comment that derailed his own point and people are calling him out for it.

His overall point is beside the point, even if it's completely valid.

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I don't know, I'm just trying to focus on what can be done with the fact that yes, even bernie sanders is a tone deaf white man. Many are, its a problem. So I was just asking what do you do with that. Do you try to steer them into not being uncomfortable, do you give up on them, what do you do. We need that demographic. While this is words from Bernie, they resonate with a lot of people that would call themselves liberal.


I'm not trying to start anything.

 

[Tfritz]

A good message in terms of reaching those who are racist but don't believe they're being racist. Can't imagine anyone else in the party backing this, though.

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Gotta reach all those peolep who can't decide between Black Progressives and Trump-loving Republicans.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I think, as said before, the point is that people don't see themselves as racist (that's immaterial to the fact that many are), and the efforts to play on those discomforts were shown in the racist campaigns of "monkey it up," "thief," and the like. It would have made more sense had he said it that way, but now it's this.

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For like the 60th time... but but he called the campaigns racist is not a defense for it's not necessarily racist to feel uncomfortable about voting for a black person cause they're black.

These piss ass attempts to make this a journalism problem and not a Bernie problem are pathetic, he's not the victim here

 

[brainchild]

Yes, manipulated by racist campaigns into not voting for someone because of the color of their skin.

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You do see an irony in you post. You are saying that not racist people were manipulated into being racist by using RACISM? What? They were either racist to begin with or not. Are they currently racist? Or just temporarily?

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The campaigns did not state : "Do not vote for this person because they are black". They simply made up bullshit about the candidates (like most negative campaigns do) and it was motivated by racism. The voters simply believed the false accusations. It's just that simple.

Anyway, I'm out. As a black person, it's incredibly frustrating to me that it's being implied that I'm making racist statements just because there's some nuance to consider. It really undermines actual racism. But whatever. I've given my 2 cents.

 

[Deleted member 7082]

It does in the sense that he's well aware that racism was used against them; he doesn't think he should call these racially-charged campaigns. They're racist campaigns. For the people, replace "aren't necessarily racist" to "don't feel they are" (which, again, doesn't actually mean they aren't) and that's the point. It's badly worded, but the main point he's making is that many white people do harbor racist views due to discomfort with black Americans, and the campaigns prey on that and affected the races on the margins. He's also saying that those who ran progressive campaigns in these redder states like Florida and Texas did a better job than the ones in Indiana and Tennessee because they excited progressives.

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Ya'll keep trying to turn attention to the racist campaigns bit, like it changes the other thing he said that this topic is about.

He said the racist voters aren't necessarily racist. He's pandering to the racist white "working class" again. Which is a separate point from the racist campaigns that the GOP ran to pander to these same people.

"Hey look at this other thing he said that I think is more important!" Fucking please.

 

[ThisThingIsUseful]

Marching with Dr King doesn't give you a free pass for everything. You can be against the big injustices, but still not see the smaller ones for what they are.

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He does (he understood the injustices in the 90s crime bill, which affected disproportionately more blacks due to the crack/cocaine difference, a difference many people don't understand); people are too focused on the wording and not the larger point he's making. The campaigns in the south played on people's insecurities on people who don't look like them, but the races were close because the candidates were better than the candidates who ran in the redder states (Beto being an exception since he ran as a liberal).

 

[okayfrog]

Gotta reach all those peolep who can't decide between Black Progressives and Trump-loving Republicans.

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Not everyone looks at it that way. I know people who voted on Democrat backed policies, but still voted Republican.

 

[B-Dubs]

He does (he understood the injustices in the 90s crime bill, which affected disproportionately more blacks due to the crack/cocaine difference, a difference many people don't understand); people are too focused on the wording and not the larger point he's making. The campaigns in the south played on people's insecurities on people who don't look like them, but the races were close because the candidates were better than the candidates who ran in the redder states (Beto being an exception since he ran as a liberal).

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He voted for the crime bill then ran on that vote later.

The campaigns did not state : "Do not vote for this person because they are black". They simply made up bullshit about the candidates (like most negative campaigns do) and it was motivated by racism. The voters simply believed the false accusations. It's just that simple.

Anyway, I'm out. As a black person, it's incredibly frustrating to me that it's being implied that I'm making racist statements just because there's some nuance to consider. It really undermines actual racism. But whatever. I've given my 2 cents.

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Nobody's saying that, I'm just disagreeing with your point.

 

[RSTEIN]

This has literally always been his position and why I never supported this fool. He thinks racism is because "economic anxiety" basically.

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Well one evolutionary-based theory for racism is coalition formation/clustering due to finite resources.

I often wonder if there would be racism if we had infinite resources.

 

[rokkerkory]

Come on Bernie

 

[ThisThingIsUseful]

Ya'll keep trying to turn attention to the racist campaigns bit

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Because that's the larger point he's making; he's talking about how the campaigns played to that.

The campaigns did not state : "Do not vote for this person because they are black". They simply made up bullshit about the candidates (like most negative campaigns do) and it was motivated by racism. The voters simply believed the false accusations. It's just that simple.

Anyway, I'm out. As a black person, it's incredibly frustrating to me that it's being implied that I'm making racist statements just because there's some nuance to consider. It really undermines actual racism. But whatever. I've given my 2 cents.

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I feel you. You're 100% right and I appreciated your contributions, especially as a person of color.

 

[NewDonkStrong]

Shut the fuck up, Bernie.

 

[stillwrapped]

Ooof.
Not like this, Bernie. Come on

 

[astro]

I don't know, I'm just trying to focus on what can be done with the fact that yes, even bernie sanders is a tone deaf white man. Many are, its a problem. So I was just asking what do you do with that. Do you try to steer them into not being uncomfortable, do you give up on them, what do you do. We need that demographic. While this is words from Bernie, they resonate with a lot of people that would call themselves liberal.


I'm not trying to start anything.

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This thread exists because he made a stupid tone-deaf statement while making a valid overall point.

People are calling him out/upset with his stupid statement.

That was the reason people were saying he's not 100% right, as your initial comment ignored the stupid statement and moved right to his overall argument (which was never under fire).

Of course his ultimate argument is worth discussing, but it's also good to call out statements that hand wave systemic racism.

 

[Deleted member 835]

Fair point, I guess it depends if everyone who displays racism should be considered a racist. It gets into semantics, but calling a person a racist is probably counter productive to changing their behavior, thoughts, and voting practices. You aren't wrong to call them racists, but it probably won't help your cause (which is the greater good of slowly eliminating racism).

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Don't really care

 

[astro]

Don't really care

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And we have no fucking choice at this point. We NEED to fight it.

 

[ThisThingIsUseful]

He voted for the crime bill then ran on that vote later.

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He ran on the assault weapons ban portion of that bill unless I'm missing (honest inquiry) that he ran on the crack/cocaine punishment portion.

 

[Deleted member 7082]

Because that's the larger point he's making; he's talking about how the campaigns played to that.

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This thread isn't about the larger point. The larger point does not show this point to be taken out of context. This is an attempt at distraction.

Sanders has an ongoing problem with this. There is too much of a pattern to explain away.

 

[DoubleTake]

The campaigns did not state : "Do not vote for this person because they are black". They simply made up bullshit about the candidates (like most negative campaigns do) and it was motivated by racism. The voters simply believed the false accusations. It's just that simple.

Anyway, I'm out. As a black person, it's incredibly frustrating to me that it's being implied that I'm making racist statements just because there's some nuance to consider. It really undermines actual racism. But whatever. I've given my 2 cents.

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So say theres a study run where respondents are all white and are given a choice between two candidates. One black one white. Both with essentially the same credentials. Both have ads decrying their credentials and calling them unfit to run. Do you seriously believe that the majority of respondents will still choose to vote for the white person because of the advertisement or simply because they harbor racist beliefs?

 

[Super Corpse Soldier]

yeah, while I maintain that Bernie gets a lot of unwarranted and bad-faith criticism, this is a legitimately bad thing for him to say

it's not politically astute to call large swaths of white voters racist, fine, but no one forced him to say they're "not necessarily" racist. he could easily have commented on the racism Gillum and Abrams faced without assessing the racist character of the electorate

it's frustrating but having idols never turns out well

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Basically.

 

[Sandstar]

maybe he was uncomfortable voting for Obama?

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He wanted to primary hin in 2012.

 

[Powdered Egg]

Well one evolutionary-based theory for racism is coalition formation/clustering due to finite resources.

I often wonder if there would be racism if we had infinite resources.

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But the ha-Wyatt populace has no problem funneling resources to rich people, I'm not sure how concerned they are with survival and resources. Racism is pretty much a man-made caste system with how it operates in the West.

 

[RailWays]

Ah! Here it is

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It remains true

 

[peppersky]

While the way he said it is obviously wrong and tone-deaf the argument is sound.
People neither decide to to be racist and not vote for racist candidates nor are they born racist. They are just fed racist beliefs all their lives. And while that obviously doesn't excuse their racist views, it's also not wrong to point out that conservative politicians and media actively sets out to make people more racist and try to profit off of that racism.

 

[manchego obfuscator]

He wanted to primary hin in 2012.

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Because Obama wanted to make drastic cuts to Medicare and Social Security and was only stopped from doing so by GOP intransigence, yes.

 

[rashbeep]

The campaigns did not state : "Do not vote for this person because they are black". They simply made up bullshit about the candidates (like most negative campaigns do) and it was motivated by racism. The voters simply believed the false accusations. It's just that simple.

Anyway, I'm out. As a black person, it's incredibly frustrating to me that it's being implied that I'm making racist statements just because there's some nuance to consider. It really undermines actual racism. But whatever. I've given my 2 cents.

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Probable that's what he meant, but that's not what he said. As others pointed out, he is wording his statements carefully enough to not offend white voters even if it means it offends black voters.

 

[DigitalOp]

An old ass white man from VERMONT and a bunch of nerds on a video game forum don't get to redefine the definition of Racism.



These white people call themselves "liberals" but somehow Gillum loses 40K votes and he's the top of ticket....

"Democrats" literally chose DeSantis, a fucking racist.


Some of y'all are truly pathetic with your ownership of your bigotry.

Here's something else you can chew on




No point even discussing this with you cowards. Y'all hide behind any term you can think of to try to convince yourselves that you aren't racist.

But nobodies fooled.... We've been known what America is comprised of.

A bunch of white cowards who fear anybody who doesn't look like them.

 

[ThisThingIsUseful]

This thread isn't about the larger point. The larger point does not show this point to be taken out of context. This is an attempt at distraction.

Sanders has an ongoing problem with this. There is too much of a pattern to explain away.

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That's the problem plenty of posters, including some black posters, have with the thread. The larger point is more important than how something was phrased to get there. The point about the kind of candidates Gillum and Abrams were and the racist dog whistles used against Gillum are what many of us find most important. The implication that he's racist is so far gone.

I think many here agree, and many of us were posting together about, what people like DeSantis were trying to pull here in Florida. I voted for Gillum in the primary and general and saw the attempts, and I know the geography of the state, and I know what DeSantis and Trump were trying to do to him. Similar to how the caravan has now vanished from the conversation now that elections are over. That's the main point, and that's why he's saying the campaigns were racist and tried to play on that.

 

[Koo]

Is... is this it? Can we finally be rid of him?

 

[Deleted member 4346]

I also want to add that Sanders, and good many of the DSA/far left, have a major blind spot when it comes to addressing race. Society is not "one size fits all" and while socializing large swaths of society is a fantastic idea, it's not a magic bullet to fix inequalities caused by centuries of racist oppression here in America. You need tailored solutions in addition to broad socialist solutions. That's why back in 2016 I was so disappointed when Sanders rejected the idea of black reparations out of hand. That would go a long way to addressing our issues.

For like the 60th time... but but he called the campaigns racist is not a defense for it's not necessarily racist to feel uncomfortable about voting for a black person cause they're black.

These piss ass attempts to make this a journalism problem and not a Bernie problem are pathetic, he's not the victim here

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It's definitely a Bernie problem and it's consistent with him, issues with messaging on race and social issues. But it's not limited just to Bernie. There are a ton of Democratic politicians on the national stage who have given "soft" racism from both voters and other politicians a pass (or even some encouragement!). Obama's presidency was essentially a study in that! So if this is disqualifying for voting for Sanders in 2020, who is the alternative? It's not Biden and I think Warren's own DNA controversy would also disqualify her.

Which Dem candidate is willing to point to the white swing voter and say "you're racist, you've been racist a long time, and you need to stop!"?

70% of white men and over 50% of white women voted for Trump in 2016. These people should be called out for their racism, absolutely, but which presidential candidate has the courage to do it?

 

[Deleted member 48897]

 

[Jombie]

Have some warm milk and take a nap, Bernie.

 

[Super Corpse Soldier]

He wanted to primary hin in 2012.

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Obama had spent two years of his presidency with his top agenda being cutting social security and medicare with the republican house by that point. He was also directly responsible for the systematic rot of the party electoral apparatus for everything that wasn't the presidency.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

An old ass white man from VERMONT and a bunch of nerds on a video game forum don't get to redefine the definition of Racism.

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That's not what Bernie was trying to do.

He fucked up the message but he most assuredly wasn't attempting to redefine racism.

Also, he's Jewish, something people love to ignore when attacking his whiteness.

 

[Vire]

In the ensuing years, the random shit this man has spouted has made me thankful he isn't in a seat of power.

 

[wisdom0wl]

Theres a defense force for this isn't there

White people really have some balls to tell colored folk what is and isn't racist. The temerity white people have will never cease to amaze me. I frankly could not give a shit about making y'all "uncomfortable." Grow a spine.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

Is... is this it? Can we finally be rid of him?

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Do you even begin to grasp how much good this man has done for the progressive movement in this country?

He clearly misspoke here, let's not blow this out of proportion.

 

[Gleethor]

Ah! Here it is

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I think about this post a lot

 

[Deleted member 25709]

oh man, don't do this Bernie.

 

[Cranster]

That's not what Bernie was trying to do.

He fucked up the message but he most assuredly wasn't attempting to redefine racism.

Also, he's Jewish, something people love to ignore when attacking his whiteness.

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I wouldn't call him racist but he is definitely making an excuse for racist behavior. Also, being Jewish does not mean you can't be racist or hold racist beliefs.

 

[Soundscream]

That's not what Bernie was trying to do.

He fucked up the message but he most assuredly wasn't attempting to redefine racism.

Also, he's Jewish, something people love to ignore when attacking his whiteness.

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So Jews can't be racist?

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

In the ensuing years, the random shit this man has spouted has made me thankful he isn't in a seat of power.

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Such as?

 

[Tfritz]

Do you even begin to grasp how much good this man has done for the progressive movement in this country?

He clearly misspoke here, let's not blow this out of proportion.

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Part of the issue is that it isn't an isolated incident.

 

[DigitalOp]

That's not what Bernie was trying to do.

He fucked up the message but he most assuredly wasn't attempting to redefine racism.

Also, he's Jewish, something people love to ignore when attacking his whiteness.

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Being Jewish means nothing in context to this....

If anything it makes him even more clueless and off the mark since he don't understand a damn thing about bias and bigotry right here.

That's the whiteness talking

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Do you even begin to grasp how much good this man has done for the progressive movement in this country?

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There are a lot of times when I think the best thing Sanders could have ever done for the movement was to do exactly what he did -- lose.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

I wouldn't call him racist but he is definitely making an excuse for racist behavior. Also, being Jewish does not mean you can't be racist or hold racist beliefs.

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My point is people love to ignore his ethnicity when calling him an old white man.