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Bernie Sanders: White People Uncomfortable About Voting for Black Candidates Not Necessarily Racist
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
- Start date
One of the many reasons why I won't vote for Bernie Sanders.
Don't call racists racists, people. You may hurt their feelings.
He marched with Dr. King, negros. Kiss the ring.
Don't call racists racists, people. You may hurt their feelings.
He marched with Dr. King, negros. Kiss the ring.
Medicare For All, free tuition, and higher minimum wage don't affect only white progressives. Talk shit about him, but not about those. Those things will help everyone.
Bernie ain't shit.
But the bigger problem is how a lot of white folks just can't fathom the idea that racism doesn't start and stop at the n word.
But the bigger problem is how a lot of white folks just can't fathom the idea that racism doesn't start and stop at the n word.
The biggest problem with implicit racism is that it's ingrained and pervasive, making it hard to stamp out since the person is even more likely to bunker down like a snapping turtle and can be used as a means of 'SJWs/PC culture gone too far' if it's something that looks innocuous from a distance but is more disturbing upon closer inspection.
I've seen some of your other posts in other topics so I don't want to leap to you're being disingenuous but I really don't understand what your point is here.
Affirmative action isn't about the belief that one's own race is superior. Not voting for someone solely because of their skin color, which Bernie is saying here, is.
I got to say, that's some mental gymnastics there. Well you see, they are not racists they just don't like the colored folks....... :????
He's doing the casual racism thing of excusing their racism. He should've just not said anything.
He is also all about discarding "identity politics" whatever that means.
He does know how to use dog whistles.
this was his definition:
for the record, i don't think that appealing to racists is a good enough reason to be hesitant to vote for a black president, but i don't think it's racist to acknowledge that white politicians are generally a safer choice because racism is still a very real thing.
if i was chief of a police force looking to do an undercover operation on the KKK, i would elect the white cop as the undercover agent because it would probably be way easier for him. blackkklansman was a great movie though.
Thank you. This needed to be said. A lot of it comes across as downplaying and very reductive. Jews in America today do have privilege- they are often white-passing, and they are a "model minority"- more educated on average and their per-capita income trends higher, so they are rarely under fire directly as blacks and Latinos are. However, handwaving away someone's Jewishness as "oh, he's a white man" or "Jews aren't a race" is absurd and offensive, too. Jews are still targeted by hate groups on the right. We are a week removed from a dozen Jews being gunned down in their place of worship.
All this doesn't mean that Sanders can't be racially insensitive, or that Jews can't be racist- of course they can be! Just, it's important to approach issues with sensitivity and consideration and, in a topic where we are complaining about a Jewish politician being insensitive of our issues in America with racism, to not handwave away his minority ethnicity either.
It's a political calculation, is what it is. There is a reality, which is that to win important states you have to win over a white majority in those states. And alienating that majority will cost you the presidency.
Note that no one is saying that Sanders is racist, in this thread. I don't think anyone genuinely believes that he is. But I think this isn't an example of, "well he misspoke" or that he has a more positive outlook. Sanders consistently alternates between being blind on racial issues, where he should be sensitive, and dismissive of racial issues, when he should be attentive.
I honestly think he has good intentions but he's too naive/disengaged on racial issues to run as a Democrat in today's America. Just relax and enjoy 2020 from the sofa like the rest of us.
And yes, being 'uncomfortable' giving a black person a job means you hold some very racist beliefs.
And yes, being 'uncomfortable' giving a black person a job means you hold some very racist beliefs.
Bernie going with the "if we don't call the racists racists, maybe they'll be more likely to vote dem in 2020" strat, I see
Nah, the black would be even better.
He could pose as "one of the good ones" and serve as the excuse black guy.
If we're talking right now of course, in the 60's it would probably be too dangerous for the black guy to interact with the kkk.
Now you've done it. Pointing out the turncoat mofo's in the crowd is going to drag this entire thing out.
A lot of older leftists tend to reject identity politics, seeing it as a 'distraction' from the class struggle. You see this position with Marxists, Leninists and Trots a lot.
Leftist can be racist and/or sexist.
Some of the things written in the early XXth by marxists people were not that far from what you could on the other side of the horshoe from that theory.
Some leftist are all about leaving the girls at home to raise kids for bigger workforce or whatever shit idea they had.
This idea that a leftist can't be sexist or racist is lunacy.
That was during a speech in which he echoed what Obama said about identity politics, that the identity of a candidate doesn't matter if they do not have progressive ideals. In his example, he said that we shouldn't vote for a woman just because they are a woman, but because they are a woman and want to regulate banks more. It was more intersectional.
Being uncomfortable with voting for a person because of their race is racist.
Recognizing that you might feel that way and fighting that impulse is great, but that doesn't mean you can pretend racism isn't affecting your judgement.
Fucking everybody is subconsciously racist to an extent. It's just how we're conditioned. You can't just pretend it doesn't exist because it's not your fault or intent; refusing to acknowledge it MAKES IT YOUR FAULT.
Recognizing that you might feel that way and fighting that impulse is great, but that doesn't mean you can pretend racism isn't affecting your judgement.
Fucking everybody is subconsciously racist to an extent. It's just how we're conditioned. You can't just pretend it doesn't exist because it's not your fault or intent; refusing to acknowledge it MAKES IT YOUR FAULT.
The "unique challenges" are white people who are totally not racist giving black people a hard time because of the color of their skin.
:/
You'll excuse me if I don't trust his vision of intersectionality.
Let's agree to disagree here or agree that I shouldn't have raised that point if I didn't want to argue it further.
At no point in time did I not say Sanders wasn't progressive. Being a progressive requires you to support a lot of those items, so what is your point? OMG a man claiming to be progressive support those things, that is special.
Here is my point and I hope you follow it before reacting. The problem is Sanders progressive views do not extend to issues that affect significantly impact minorities. He can go on and on about issues, but whenever issues relating to racial inequality and racism in this country he tries to avoid the topic or makes a racism comment like this topic.
Bernie Sanders is like Portland, OR liberal or an average Bostonian. They will vote vote for liberals but treat minorities like shit or doesn't stop them from being completely racist.
Banned, but you'll still get this work because your thread performance is trash.
Uh.... yeah he's oblivious as fuck to bigotry if he's going to defend people from the LITERAL definition of Racism. Like what are you smoking?
You were in here saying Jews aren't white? Can I have some of that weed?
Black People and Jews have had a long symbiotic relationship in America. We wouldn't have the prominence we have in n the entertainment industry if it wasn't for Jewish executives giving black talent chances and opportunities. Do you know why that happened?
Because Jewish executives were the interface between Black talent and White Network Executives. Why did those White Executives work and make deals with Jewish Producers?
BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE.
He was criticizing a specific liberal permutation of identity politics that places more emphasis on diversifying our elites than anything else, but it was still very tone-deaf of him to use that phrase in any sort of negative context. The subsequent attacks were predictable and could easily have been avoided.
It's funny that we have to keep saying this.
Minorities are treated poorly but we better not say anything because white people might feel bad.
We're not talking about an undercover sting though. Racism is only a very real thing because a major factor among many is the people Bernie is trying to excuse who use flawed logic to keep black and brown people from positions of power and visibility where they can make and be the required changes to the landscape of American politics. You can't claim you're for equality then say that you don't want to vote for the progressive black candidate just because his skin color isn't appealing to the racists in your city/state and that progressive white people are just "more appealing" socially. The only reason that bias exists at all is because of continuing the racist paradigm of denying black people opportunities under the guise of good-natured ignorance.
I didn't say that you accused him of not being progressive. I'm reacting more to your claim that he focused on issues that affects white progressives when his issues affect more than just those groups. I ascribed malicious intent to your statement because I interact with a lot of people who think Medicare For All is inherently racist. My apologies.
Hate him or love him, the mainstream Democratic Party is moving Left thanks to Bernie Sanders. He is White Moses as we head for the Progressive Promised Land. He may not get there with us but I thank my brother for his service.
See, I could imagine a situation where race might play into someone's decision to vote while not being actively hateful. But that's hateful, which is sometimes too 1-to-1 conflated with racism. There are certainly people with racist views who "know" in their hearts that they don't actively hate any particular race. We all know that people are friends with, date, and marry members of race X while still having racist opinions of race X.
But if you are white and you decide not to vote for someone because they are black, then yes, that's racist. What the hell else would you even call it?
And guess what? You can actively fight for civil rights for people while still holding racist views. I have absolutely heard statements such as "They just aren't as intelligent as us, which is why it's our obligation to help them." I guess it's great that people with that opinion want to help, but their view on intelligence is still racist, and as a corollary, the person who is deterred from voting for a candidate due to their race has made a racist decision.
But if you are white and you decide not to vote for someone because they are black, then yes, that's racist. What the hell else would you even call it?
And guess what? You can actively fight for civil rights for people while still holding racist views. I have absolutely heard statements such as "They just aren't as intelligent as us, which is why it's our obligation to help them." I guess it's great that people with that opinion want to help, but their view on intelligence is still racist, and as a corollary, the person who is deterred from voting for a candidate due to their race has made a racist decision.
Y'all get biblical about this dude and don't understand why we think you're fools lmao
Some are, some are just really dogmatic. Either way, it's harmful since it dismisses the way that ethnic minorities, women, LGBTQ+, etc. are discriminated against outside of economic structures .
This is a good piece about the issues with identity politics from a leftist perspective, probably the best summary I've read. It doesn't advocate discarding that perspective entirely, just recognizing it has limits and should be balanced with class-based politics.
Being Jewish doesn't mean you are white. There are Jews from North Africa and would fit general defenition for non white. There are Jews from Ethiopia who are black.
You are propagating stereotypes yourself here. Antisemitism is on the rise in US as seen by the shooting at the Synagogue just last week or by desecration of Jewish cemeteries or by the whole "rich Jews that love money" stereotypes by various Republican candidates or by democratic candidates like the one running for Governor of Florida.
That said, yes, Jews have had long historic association with black communities and leaders and were normally on the forefront for civil rights movement and fight against racism.
Ideas don't pass legislation or run campaigns, and they definitely don't vote.
Ideas are nice. But at some point you have to run them through reality, and there you're going to need to figure out how to leverage people.
I agree but he has done more than March with MLK. https://medium.com/@ShaunKing/you-dont-really-know-who-bernie-sanders-was-in-the-1960s-79628016125f
White folks continue to demonstrate they don't know what racism actually is and how it systematically fucks over PoC. Unsurprising.
It's fairly classic approach from traditional left (Marx, Lenin, etc...) where the focus is on class struggle vs race/identity struggle. Of course as many other aspects of pure communism/socialism, this doesn't quite work in real life.
I get shit from people who vote Republican when I tell them they are supporting racism with their votes.
Now they have this to throw back at me.
Thanks, Bernie.
Now they have this to throw back at me.
Thanks, Bernie.
Things change from the bottom up. I'm not just sitting here declaring for Medicare For All. I canvass and call. Politicians are just a means to achieve that goal, but they get that pressure from below
Beautifully said. Unfortunately alienating white people in rural communities isn't going to win elections. Bernie is trying to speak to them to open up another Avenue for the Democrats.
Among younger socialist though, it's not an either/or proposition. The smarter ones in the movement know that class struggle and minority struggles are interlinked but not entirely overlapped and thus have to be dealt with in tandem. We shouldn't have to sacrifice "identify" for "class" but find a way to make them work together. This whole thread can be summed up with Bernie just being too old and outdated with his understanding of race (he's too afraid of alienating a base of white voters that are frankly nothing more than a specter at this point and should either fall in line or be abandoned). His economic are ideas are good and important for pulling progressives further left, but we need him to play cheerleader to younger socialist options for 2020 who understand the intersection of identity and class.
Naw..fuck this bullshit! Just being black or brown or speaking to Black or blown folk is enough to "alienate" those people! People like me just trying to live our lives is enough to have those same folk running to support Trump and his kind.
Fuck them. And Fuck Bernie for his continuous apeassment of that voting block.