1. gutter_trash

    gutter_trash
    Member

    Black women are the most loyal voting block of the Democratic party, but loyalty has its limits when an outsider independent form Vermont swoops into the nomination race and starts saying this shit overlooking real Democrats.
     
  2. Clusterdreams

    Clusterdreams
    Member

    A reminder that Bernie sanders is an old white guy
     
  3. Fascism works in general for electoral politics. Its easy.
     
  4. gigantor21

    gigantor21
    Member

    So all 3 of the major contenders in 2016 were only fairweather friends at best, got it.
     
  5. Slayven

    Slayven
    You probably post about me on another board. Moderator

    You are handwaving alot of stuff
     
  6. The Adder

    The Adder
    Member

    My oh my look how easy it is to get 'progressives' on board with racism. Just have their savior speak the words and they're ready to worship at his altar again knowing good and god damn well if this had come out of a Republican's mouth they wouldn't be doing all this hand wringing equivocation.

    Not a surprise.
     
  7. German Lopez took a closer look at that specific point (including a comparison of Sanders' record/rhetoric at the time with Clinton's), over at Vox: link. "...While the Clintons have defended the 1994 crime law until quite recently, Sanders was always careful to point out that he saw the law as a compromise — and regularly stated his concerns with mass incarceration..." But Sanders clearly could have voted against the 1994 crime bill (as he did in the case of 1991 crime bill) and simply added that he approved of some of the specific provisions in the 1994 bill (the Violence Against Women Act and the 10-year assault weapons ban). Instead, he voted for the 1994 bill, while saying that he disapproved of everything outside of those provisions (i.e., the Violence Against Women Act and a 10-year assault weapons ban). His 1994 vote remains highly problematic, whatever "clarifications" he may have issued, both before and after his vote.

    Likewise, coming back to the topic, as noted earlier in the thread, even if we acknowledge the "nuance" Bernie was apparently attempting to capture, one of his specific statements was very clearly mistaken, and his "clarification" did not actually correct that mistake.
     
  8. Clipjoint

    Clipjoint
    Banned Member

    It was clumsily stated, but it's pretty clear what Bernie was saying - that there was an extremely racist campaign run against Gillum and Abrams, and it cost them some votes from winnable white voters. The continuation of his point was that it will be easier for those people to vote for a POC next time around. I didn't take it as an excuse for racism - he's just saying those voters aren't lost and we shouldn't assume they'll never vote for a POC if they fell for the racist campaign this time around.

    Now whether that's true or not is debatable, but he's essentially trying not to label them as "deplorables" the way Hillary did, which clearly alienated voters.
     
  9. Opto

    Opto
    Member

    You can thread the needle of trying to win over diet racists without also alienating black voters.

    Bernie has not taken this lesson
     
  10. Veggen

    Veggen
    Member

    That's still handwaving their responsibility for their racist coverage built on fear.
     
  11. Slayven

    Slayven
    You probably post about me on another board. Moderator

    Beto talked about issue and not threw anyone under the bus
     
  12. Ukraine

    Ukraine
    Banned Member

    He literally said that people who don’t vote for someone because of skin color are not necessarily racist. He fucked up and no amount of word twisting will fix it.
     
  13. Slayven

    Slayven
    You probably post about me on another board. Moderator

    I am not, they do it because they know racists love it. Folks are trying to turn this into a chicken or the egg debate situation. When we absolutely know where it starts.
     
  14. Opto

    Opto
    Member

    Yes but Beto lost so he should have been more racist i guess
     
  15. El Bombastico

    El Bombastico
    Member

    Just stop. We've already had one person banned trying to defend this bullshit.
     
  16. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member OP

    The really funny thing, about his supporters saying this is showing that the's smart and shrewd, and that he's politicking for the 2020 showdown with Trump by trying to get some white folk on his side, is that his supporters are totally ignoring that you know to get to face Trump you kind have to win the primary, so even if this was the right thing to do (and it's bloody fucking not) doing it now shows how much this isn't any of that because only a total fucking moron would say shit to piss of the Black party base that has a huge say in who wins the Primary.... Trying to win over racist white people while insulting black folk is a pretty good away to get blown the fuck out... again.


    Dude is horrendous at actually being a politician.

    It's also really funny that Sanders is more comfortable putting Planned Parenthood and the HRC (not Clinton) on blast, or rich progrssives on blast, than racist white people
     
  17. Tfritz

    Tfritz
    Member

    Racist campaigns are evidently very successful for Republicans, so I'm not sure why they won't continue to run them in future elections or why these Nice White People Who Aren't Racist won't continue to fall for those campaigns in the future
     
  18. Racist media creates more racists a makes existing racists even more racist than they were before.
     
  19. Braaier

    Braaier
    Member

    Bernie has said some questionable things about race. Add this to the list.
     
  20. Slayven

    Slayven
    You probably post about me on another board. Moderator

    He was in texas, if he was in any other red state I bet he would have won and won early. He lose by 2.6%, folks were expecting a way bigger blowout
     
  21. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member OP

    Also I'm pretty sure this is not the very first time all these white people have ever felt uncomfortable with the idea of a black politician wanting their vote, so that line was also stupid.

    Florida and Georgia in 2018 didn't invent the anti-black racist political ad.
     
  22. Veggen

    Veggen
    Member

    Yeah, it's the same reason they can't/couldn't stop covering Trump.

    It's still a feedback loop and should be mitigated. Media accountability should be a thing.
     
  23. Slayven

    Slayven
    You probably post about me on another board. Moderator

    Kemp was racist, lied, cheated and stole AND still barely beat Abrams.
     
  24. Beto would have been such a top tier candidate if he didn't have to runnin a state that hadn't elected a democratic senator in 25 years. Like Ohio, I think he would have done better in Florida then Nelson I think. Like most places other Texas would have been a slam dunk. Pearls before swine as they say.
     
  25. Clipjoint

    Clipjoint
    Banned Member

    In their minds, they don't think they are racists. They don't see themselves that way - that's what he's referring to. Everyone knows people like this. They exist in every culture and among minorities. Writing them off as a racist monolith helps win you internet points, but I don't fault him for wanting to engage them and help them improve.
     
  26. Clipjoint

    Clipjoint
    Banned Member

    My fault, I thought this was a discussion board where people were encouraged to debate thoughts and ideas. I didn't realize I'd get banned for trying to contextualize a quote that is clearly being misconstrued. I guess I'll just have to take my ban then.
     
  27. astro

    astro
    Member

    No, he literally said “I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,”

    This is the very definition of racism. What he said was very clear.

    It has not been misconstrued.
     
  28. Cyanity

    Cyanity
    Member

    Welp, Sanders is cancelled
     
  29. Clipjoint

    Clipjoint
    Banned Member

    It's not just white people. In Florida you can have Hispanics, Asians, Jews, and even other black people who think this way. These people don't see themselves as racists, but they are swayed by some inherent cultural or latent racism. Writing them off as being lost to the Republican party isn't the smart way to go. Engaging with them and helping them understand the world better is what's needed.
     
  30. Ukraine

    Ukraine
    Banned Member

    First of all you can say this about literally any type of racism. Even people wearing blackface sometimes don’t know what the fuck they are doing. Second of all I didn’t say anything about not engaging them. They should be engaged. In fact I would say that 90% of population have biases but most people know right from wrong and this is clearly wrong. It can be explained. And last of all Bernie is a dumbass because how fucking damaging his statement is. He basically said that it’s OK to be racist instead of engaging those racists.
     
  31. Sanjuro

    Sanjuro
    Member

    I blame Vermont.
     
  32. Clipjoint

    Clipjoint
    Banned Member

    You left out the next part of the line, which is that next time they will be more willing to vote for an African-American. He is not excusing racism - he's saying we shouldn't give up on those people because they can be better.
     
  33. astro

    astro
    Member

    No, there is no part left out of that sentence. It literally says what it says.

    He's passing something off as not being racist, when it is.
     
  34. Clipjoint

    Clipjoint
    Banned Member

    Point out to me where he said it's OK to be racist? That's exactly what I mean when I say you're purposely misconstruing what he said.
     
  35. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member OP

    Actually what he said was it's not necessarily racist to not want to vote for a black person because of their skin colour.
     
  36. stupei

    stupei
    Member

    He could have said "racist people can learn to be less racist," but he didn't because he didn't want to acknowledge that they are in fact currently racist. Because he knows how much white people don't like even the specter of applying that awful R word to any white person and he fears losing the milquetoast white vote more than anything else since he caters to them not only as a senator of an incredibly white state but as his apparent primary strategy for Presidential campaigns.
     
  37. Ukraine

    Ukraine
    Banned Member

    Dude. It’s LITERALLY IN THREAD TITLE. HE IS SAYING THAT RACISTS ARE NOT NECESSARILY RACIST. They are fucking racist. It’s not ok!
     
  38. He does both. Him saying we shouldn't give up on these voters doesn't change the fact that he did excuse racism with the first line, saying something that something that's definitively racist (being uncomfortable with voting for a black candidate) isn't racist. These are not exclusive concepts, and the next part changes nothing, unlike what you're saying here.
     
  39. Mona

    Mona
    Member

    [​IMG]

    you thought wrong
     
  40. Clipjoint

    Clipjoint
    Banned Member

    • User Banned (2 Weeks): Excusing Racism, Account in Junior Phase.
    Here's the quote:

    “I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American. I think next time around, by the way, it will be a lot easier for them to do that.”

    The context changes completely when you leave out the second sentence. And if you read on, here's what he said specifically about Gillum:

    “I think he’s a fantastic politician in the best sense of the word,” Sanders said of Gillum. “He stuck to his guns in terms of a progressive agenda. I think he ran a great campaign. And he had to take on some of the most blatant and ugly racism that we have seen in many, many years. And yet he came within a whisker of winning.”

    If you can read that and claim that Sanders is "excusing" racism, then I don't know what else to say. You may have already come into this with a negative perception of him. You're not really leaving him much benefit of the doubt, when he's someone who has worked his whole life to defend POC.
     
  41. grannvale

    grannvale
    Member

    There are even massive racists who would vote for a black candidate if they followed their political agenda. If you won't vote for someone for their race, then you're definitely racist, there's no way around it.
     
  42. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member OP

    He said it;s not necessarily racist to not want to vote for black people cause they;re black.

    He said that.
     
  43. Ukraine

    Ukraine
    Banned Member

    But he literally is. He literally said that it’s not necessary racist not to vote for someone because of their SKIN COLOR. There’s nothing ambiguous in his statement.
     
  44. DigitalOp

    DigitalOp
    Member

    This board loves context so much. Lets do some context.



    - American colonists commit one of the greatest sins in American Slavery

    - Founding Fathers took part in owing slaves no matter how deplorable they thought the practice was.... still owned people, never freed them

    - Pimp Daddy George takes a knee to franchising African Slaves in the Constitution because parts of Congress refused to sign to a Union with Africans being represented. The compromise is 3/5ths representation.

    - Americans win independence and continue an era of absolute evil, torture and desecration towards the Africans who harvest the crops and built the country infrastructure

    - Willie Lynch writes a letter stating he found the secret to fucking up those black people, sends it off to virtually all the slave owners. (the letter details issues that still plague the Black Community today)

    - Dred Scott sues for his freedom on the grounds that he was kept as a slave in a free state..... He loses

    - Slavery continues until the rise of Abolitionists which some even claim may have been for fiscal reasons rather than moral

    - Confederacy rises as the South wants to maintain its economics and continue practicing Slavery

    - The North goes to war with the Southern Traitors, and beats them. But poor Abraham doesn't want to rock the boat too much so he spares the lives of racists traitors allowing them to continue breathing. Not only that, he felt really bad they lost their breadwinner, so the Govt grants the traitors tax breaks and grants so they can continue enjoying their lives.

    - Confederate crybabies get salty and butthurt and decide to stick to those Blacks during the Reconstruction Era. These practices evolve into Jim Crow

    - Confederate Wives say "Don't leave us out!", they band and create the Daughters of the Confederacy. Their main mission is to embed the Confederate mission into schools and the education system known as the 'Lost Cause'

    - Jim Crow comes in full effect, Segregation starts happening

    - Lynchings become house parties, bring your kids! They'll be fine killers when they get older

    - Black people are able to build a wealthy and beautiful community in Tulsa, only to be destroyed by evil jealous white racists who burned the town

    - White people get bored and start to dress in blackface. Help create stereotypes that plague us today.

    - KKK starts riding around killing black kids, black folk.... well anyone black...

    - Black soldiers go fight WW2, US Army tells the British they need to treat em like shit so they don't get any ideas... Some Black soldiers end up staying in France because fuckkkkkk that

    - Black People start to ask for representation, White People think they crazy as shit for even asking...

    - Civil Rights Movements begin to form, KKKPolice start killing and beating everyones ass (they were doing this before, just upped it)
    Mississippi Killings

    - White Supremacists bomb a church in Alabama killing young black girls

    - FBI starts spying and infiltrating Black Movements like Black Panthers and Civil Rights

    - MLK gets killed, Malcolm gets killed

    - Black People get fed up and burn everything..... oh! Civil Rights!

    - Damn near nothing changes, Black people still get their ass beat and killed.... but they can vote now!! Oh wait.... Voter Laws and bullshit..... plus the poll operators who's just like "fuck no, law or not, you aint voting shit"

    - Housing discrimination takes effect, Black people can't get grants nor any assistance

    - The government drops a whole ass bomb on black people in Philly (MOVE)

    - Crack becomes an epidemic when the CIA starts feeding the shit to low level dealers, they end up circling back and arresting the same dealers they supplied

    - The response to Crack is a War on Drugs by Reagan, with strict jail time sentences. This begins Mass Incarceration. (The response to Opiods is love)

    - Clinton continues Reagan's War on Drugs. FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT WHOO

    - Rodney King gets his ass BEAT on camera..... All officers innocent, I mean he deserved it.

    - GW Bush essentially cuts and limits funding for Black Education and the NAACP

    - GW Bush and the State allows countless black lives to die in Katrina due to lackluster response

    - Obama becomes president, meanwhile a portion of the country gets really pissed...

    - A POS wannabe cop murders a young black boy going to the store. White America celebrates him.

    - President tears up about the thought of a lost black youth..... The country GETS PISSED.

    - Unarmed killings by Cops become national news, Black Lives Matters is formed. The country responds by demonizing the movement as terrorists.

    - Bony hateful white kid runs into a black church and kills people. Find FB pics and posts of his hateful racist ass but the killing is about "religion" tho

    - As a response to the President.... existing.... White People form the hateful Tea Party to primary Republicans and steer the party to its current form

    - Republicans give the President the finger on virtually...... everything....

    - A Clown, denied by his homeland... puts his bid in for President. Runs his platform off Racism. White America Cheers!

    - The Clown wins* (Foreign Interference, Voter Suppresion) and proceeds to essentially fuck shit up. White Supremacists begin to feel validated. They take off the hoods and replace it with a Red Cap

    - Supremacists march in Charlottesville and kill a white woman. The Clown refers to them as fine people.

    - Clown makes an attack on Black NFL players for bringing attention to unarmed police killings. He uses language worse than what he used for Nazis and ISIS

    - Clown begins to target immigration coming from "shithole countries". Why can't we have more people form Norway?

    - White Supremacist activity and hate crimes make a huge increase statically. Clown ignores this. Also he defunds the FBI from investigating those crimes.

    - Clown threatens to bring back Stop and Frisk nationally, a program that targets Black Americans for..... existing

    - Clown tightens his rhetoric which motivates more people to act in violence. Train Attack, Parkland, Bombs, Synagogue shooting.

    - White Americans start to get comfortable with Black Face again... I mean, its just Halloween, right?

    - Voter Suppression happens nationally in the latest election with the worst being GA and parts of FL. Openly Racist candidates are re-elected into office again.....



    So yeah, You're absolutely right Bernie. In the context of America, being afraid to vote for someone who's black because they are black isn't racism.... Its.... uh.... well..... what do we call it then?
     
  45. It's literally what he's doing. He excuses it, then says we can win people over. The fact that he thinks we can win them over doesn't change the fact that he gave them a pass for their racism, and said something that clearly is racist isn't, in the preceding statement.

    I don't get what's so complicated about that, at all. The fact he thinks we can win them over is completely immaterial to him giving them a pass on their racism. The former doesn't magically make the latter go away.
     
  46. Puroresu_kid

    Puroresu_kid
    Member

    What a ridiculous thing to say
     
  47. El Bombastico

    El Bombastico
    Member

    Yeah, play the victim, that always works.

    NeoGaf is that way, friendo
     
  48. The Adder

    The Adder
    Member

    It doesn't matter what a populist actually says. Their base will interpret it to mean whatever they're most comfortable with. We've seen this time and again with both this populist and the Tangerine Scream.
     
  49. Puroresu_kid

    Puroresu_kid
    Member

    Amen to all of that
     
  50. Clipjoint

    Clipjoint
    Banned Member

    If you want to stick to a literal interpretation of what's clearly a transcription of a verbal conversation with absolutely no room for context or reason, then yes that phrase would look like he's excusing racism. If you apply the slightest bit of contextualization to the phrase as one would do in a scenario like this one, it's clear he's saying they don't view themselves as racists and not that their actions themselves are not racist.

    Again, if a person is looking for a reason to "cancel" Bernie or engage in some performative virtue signaling, then by all means they should pile on. But this looks like nothing more to me than concern trolling from those who were already hostile to Bernie for past sins against the Democratic party.