Bernie Sanders: White People Uncomfortable About Voting for Black Candidates Not Necessarily Racist

[Deleted member 2254]

If you're not voting for someone because of the colour of the skin, that's racism. There is no other way of putting it. I'll never understand the boner half the Internet had for Bernie these past years, he's only marginally better than some of the politicians almost universally regarded as trash.

 

[Kinsei]

This board loves context so much. Lets do some context.



- American colonists commit one of the greatest sins in American Slavery

- Founding Fathers took part in owing slaves no matter how deplorable they thought the practice was.... still owned people, never freed them

- Pimp Daddy George takes a knee to franchising African Slaves in the Constitution because parts of Congress refused to sign to a Union with Africans being represented. The compromise is 3/5ths representation.

- Americans win independence and continue an era of absolute evil, torture and desecration towards the Africans who harvest the crops and built the country infrastructure

- Willie Lynch writes a letter stating he found the secret to fucking up those black people, sends it off to virtually all the slave owners. (the letter details issues that still plague the Black Community today)

- Dred Scott sues for his freedom on the grounds that he was kept as a slave in a free state..... He loses

- Slavery continues until the rise of Abolitionists which some even claim may have been for fiscal reasons rather than moral

- Confederacy rises as the South wants to maintain its economics and continue practicing Slavery

- The North goes to war with the Southern Traitors, and beats them. But poor Abraham doesn't want to rock the boat too much so he spares the lives of racists traitors allowing them to continue breathing. Not only that, he felt really bad they lost their breadwinner, so the Govt grants the traitors tax breaks and grants so they can continue enjoying their lives.

- Confederate crybabies get salty and butthurt and decide to stick to those Blacks during the Reconstruction Era. These practices evolve into Jim Crow

- Confederate Wives say "Don't leave us out!", they band and create the Daughters of the Confederacy. Their main mission is to embed the Confederate mission into schools and the education system known as the 'Lost Cause'

- Jim Crow comes in full effect, Segregation starts happening

- Lynchings become house parties, bring your kids! They'll be fine killers when they get older

- Black people are able to build a wealthy and beautiful community in Tulsa, only to be destroyed by evil jealous white racists who burned the town

- White people get bored and start to dress in blackface. Help create stereotypes that plague us today.

- KKK starts riding around killing black kids, black folk.... well anyone black...

- Black soldiers go fight WW2, US Army tells the British they need to treat em like shit so they don't get any ideas... Some Black soldiers end up staying in France because fuckkkkkk that

- Black People start to ask for representation, White People think they crazy as shit for even asking...

- Civil Rights Movements begin to form, KKKPolice start killing and beating everyones ass (they were doing this before, just upped it)
Mississippi Killings

- White Supremacists bomb a church in Alabama killing young black girls

- FBI starts spying and infiltrating Black Movements like Black Panthers and Civil Rights

- MLK gets killed, Malcolm gets killed

- Black People get fed up and burn everything..... oh! Civil Rights!

- Damn near nothing changes, Black people still get their ass beat and killed.... but they can vote now!! Oh wait.... Voter Laws and bullshit..... plus the poll operators who's just like "fuck no, law or not, you aint voting shit"

- Housing discrimination takes effect, Black people can't get grants nor any assistance

- The government drops a whole ass bomb on black people in Philly (MOVE)

- Crack becomes an epidemic when the CIA starts feeding the shit to low level dealers, they end up circling back and arresting the same dealers they supplied

- The response to Crack is a War on Drugs by Reagan, with strict jail time sentences. This begins Mass Incarceration. (The response to Opiods is love)

- Clinton continues Reagan's War on Drugs. FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT WHOO

- Rodney King gets his ass BEAT on camera..... All officers innocent, I mean he deserved it.

- GW Bush essentially cuts and limits funding for Black Education and the NAACP

- GW Bush and the State allows countless black lives to die in Katrina due to lackluster response

- Obama becomes president, meanwhile a portion of the country gets really pissed...

- A POS wannabe cop murders a young black boy going to the store. White America celebrates him.

- President tears up about the thought of a lost black youth..... The country GETS PISSED.

- Unarmed killings by Cops become national news, Black Lives Matters is formed. The country responds by demonizing the movement as terrorists.

- Bony hateful white kid runs into a black church and kills people. Find FB pics and posts of his hateful racist ass but the killing is about "religion" tho

- As a response to the President.... existing.... White People form the hateful Tea Party to primary Republicans and steer the party to its current form

- Republicans give the President the finger on virtually...... everything....

- A Clown, denied by his homeland... puts his bid in for President. Runs his platform off Racism. White America Cheers!

- The Clown wins* (Foreign Interference, Voter Suppresion) and proceeds to essentially fuck shit up. White Supremacists begin to feel validated. They take off the hoods and replace it with a Red Cap

- Supremacists march in Charlottesville and kill a white woman. The Clown refers to them as fine people.

- Clown makes an attack on Black NFL players for bringing attention to unarmed police killings. He uses language worse than what he used for Nazis and ISIS

- Clown begins to target immigration coming from "shithole countries". Why can't we have more people form Norway?

- White Supremacist activity and hate crimes make a huge increase statically. Clown ignores this. Also he defunds the FBI from investigating those crimes.

- Clown threatens to bring back Stop and Frisk nationally, a program that targets Black Americans for..... existing

- Clown tightens his rhetoric which motivates more people to act in violence. Train Attack, Parkland, Bombs, Synagogue shooting.

- White Americans start to get comfortable with Black Face again... I mean, its just Halloween, right?

- Voter Suppression happens nationally in the latest election with the worst being GA and parts of FL. Openly Racist candidates are re-elected into office again.....



So yeah, You're absolutely right Bernie. In the context of America, being afraid to vote for someone who's black because they are black isn't racism.... Its.... uh.... well..... what do we call it then?

Click to shrink...

Fantastic post.

 

[massoluk]

I'll never forget Sanders excuse of skipping the Deep South. Dude doesn't deserve any of the praise

 

[Syder]

White People Uncomfortable About Voting for Black Candidates...

Click to shrink...

...Not Necessarily Racist

Click to shrink...

Really disappointing, Bernie.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Really disappointing, Bernie.

Click to shrink...

It's just Bernie.

Occam's Razor: Bernie is just an old racist.

I mean, he's not *just* an old racist.

He's an old racist with pretty lies that he doesn't know how to fund.

Shit, that's like Trump, the only difference is who the lies appeal to.

</Homer walking backwards into hedges>

 

[excelsiorlef]

But he isn't actually saying that these people don't have racial bias -- he's explicitly stating that they do. And we can get hung up on whether or not racial prejudice and racism are the same thing, but doing that clearly misses the substance of what he's trying to say. He isn't letting them off the hook, he's just trying to say that there are people that are reachable, but not there yet. It's a distinction between ideologically racist, and someone who is subject to racial bias.

And I know a lot of people want to say those are inherently the same thing, and I get that impulse, but it can be useful to talk about them separately for a few reasons.

First, racial bias is really prevalent among white people, even the educated liberal set. If we're talking about implicit bias, it's a vast majority. And even the more overt sort, it's a pretty sizable minority. And labeling every one of these people in the same way we do, say, a David Duke or a Richard Spencer, for whom this is more ideology than tendency, is not terribly useful if your goal is to rally the vote to move past that bias.

Second, it can be really politically toxic to talk that way. Even when it might be factually correct. Calling people racist is never persuasive, and if we want to reach people, sometimes we have to take a softer approach. Bernie has always been a big proponent of populist messaging, and populist messaging can be controversial among the elites and the ideologues, but it's a powerful tool as well. And to his credit, I think the substance of what he's trying to say here is fair.

Click to shrink...

Stop trying to make excuses, and I don't care if i's not politically expedient to call them racist, it's also not politically expedient to say they're not racist.

And fucking hell calling someone racist is not labeling them David Duke, this is such an absurd, and frankly insulting, argument and assumption. Stop.

And there is no to his credit, he gets no credit here, he has demonstrated that he is more afraid of offending white people than Black people and seems to forget who he needs on his side in the 2020 Primary if he doesn't want to get blown out again.

 

[Jpop]

Stop trying to make excuses, and I don't care if i's not politically expedient to call them racist, it's also not politically expedient to say they're not racist.

And fucking hell calling someone racist is not labeling them David Duke, this is such an absurd, and frankly insulting, argument and assumption. Stop.

And there is no to his credit, he gets no credit here, he has demonstrated that he is more afraid of offending white people than Black people and seems to forget who he needs on his side in the 2020 Primary if he doesn't want to get blown out again.

Click to shrink...

Well said.

 

[Deleted member 41271]

Second, it can be really politically toxic to talk that way

Click to shrink...

Why is it only politically toxic to call a racist a racist, but not politically toxic to coddle racists while the minorities affected by the racist watch in horror?

 

[Beer Monkey]

And there is no to his credit, he gets no credit here, he has demonstrated that he is more afraid of offending white people than Black people and seems to forget who he needs on his side in the 2020 Primary if he doesn't want to get blown out again.

Click to shrink...

Bernie will get his ass beat very badly in 2020 and trolls will claim it is a DNC conspiracy and vote third party or stay home. Time is a flat circle.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Bernie will get his ass beat very badly in 2020 and trolls will claim it is a DNC conspiracy and vote third party or stay home. Time is a flat circle.

Click to shrink...

Pretty much, and someone white lefties will say Black People are voting against their best interest and other offensive garbage.

 

[Deleted member 3093]

Turns out that the guy who opposed same-sex marriage also defends racist white people

dang

 

[TechnicPuppet]

This board loves context so much. Lets do some context.



- American colonists commit one of the greatest sins in American Slavery

- Founding Fathers took part in owing slaves no matter how deplorable they thought the practice was.... still owned people, never freed them

- Pimp Daddy George takes a knee to franchising African Slaves in the Constitution because parts of Congress refused to sign to a Union with Africans being represented. The compromise is 3/5ths representation.

- Americans win independence and continue an era of absolute evil, torture and desecration towards the Africans who harvest the crops and built the country infrastructure

- Willie Lynch writes a letter stating he found the secret to fucking up those black people, sends it off to virtually all the slave owners. (the letter details issues that still plague the Black Community today)

- Dred Scott sues for his freedom on the grounds that he was kept as a slave in a free state..... He loses

- Slavery continues until the rise of Abolitionists which some even claim may have been for fiscal reasons rather than moral

- Confederacy rises as the South wants to maintain its economics and continue practicing Slavery

- The North goes to war with the Southern Traitors, and beats them. But poor Abraham doesn't want to rock the boat too much so he spares the lives of racists traitors allowing them to continue breathing. Not only that, he felt really bad they lost their breadwinner, so the Govt grants the traitors tax breaks and grants so they can continue enjoying their lives.

- Confederate crybabies get salty and butthurt and decide to stick to those Blacks during the Reconstruction Era. These practices evolve into Jim Crow

- Confederate Wives say "Don't leave us out!", they band and create the Daughters of the Confederacy. Their main mission is to embed the Confederate mission into schools and the education system known as the 'Lost Cause'

- Jim Crow comes in full effect, Segregation starts happening

- Lynchings become house parties, bring your kids! They'll be fine killers when they get older

- Black people are able to build a wealthy and beautiful community in Tulsa, only to be destroyed by evil jealous white racists who burned the town

- White people get bored and start to dress in blackface. Help create stereotypes that plague us today.

- KKK starts riding around killing black kids, black folk.... well anyone black...

- Black soldiers go fight WW2, US Army tells the British they need to treat em like shit so they don't get any ideas... Some Black soldiers end up staying in France because fuckkkkkk that

- Black People start to ask for representation, White People think they crazy as shit for even asking...

- Civil Rights Movements begin to form, KKKPolice start killing and beating everyones ass (they were doing this before, just upped it)
Mississippi Killings

- White Supremacists bomb a church in Alabama killing young black girls

- FBI starts spying and infiltrating Black Movements like Black Panthers and Civil Rights

- MLK gets killed, Malcolm gets killed

- Black People get fed up and burn everything..... oh! Civil Rights!

- Damn near nothing changes, Black people still get their ass beat and killed.... but they can vote now!! Oh wait.... Voter Laws and bullshit..... plus the poll operators who's just like "fuck no, law or not, you aint voting shit"

- Housing discrimination takes effect, Black people can't get grants nor any assistance

- The government drops a whole ass bomb on black people in Philly (MOVE)

- Crack becomes an epidemic when the CIA starts feeding the shit to low level dealers, they end up circling back and arresting the same dealers they supplied

- The response to Crack is a War on Drugs by Reagan, with strict jail time sentences. This begins Mass Incarceration. (The response to Opiods is love)

- Clinton continues Reagan's War on Drugs. FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT WHOO

- Rodney King gets his ass BEAT on camera..... All officers innocent, I mean he deserved it.

- GW Bush essentially cuts and limits funding for Black Education and the NAACP

- GW Bush and the State allows countless black lives to die in Katrina due to lackluster response

- Obama becomes president, meanwhile a portion of the country gets really pissed...

- A POS wannabe cop murders a young black boy going to the store. White America celebrates him.

- President tears up about the thought of a lost black youth..... The country GETS PISSED.

- Unarmed killings by Cops become national news, Black Lives Matters is formed. The country responds by demonizing the movement as terrorists.

- Bony hateful white kid runs into a black church and kills people. Find FB pics and posts of his hateful racist ass but the killing is about "religion" tho

- As a response to the President.... existing.... White People form the hateful Tea Party to primary Republicans and steer the party to its current form

- Republicans give the President the finger on virtually...... everything....

- A Clown, denied by his homeland... puts his bid in for President. Runs his platform off Racism. White America Cheers!

- The Clown wins* (Foreign Interference, Voter Suppresion) and proceeds to essentially fuck shit up. White Supremacists begin to feel validated. They take off the hoods and replace it with a Red Cap

- Supremacists march in Charlottesville and kill a white woman. The Clown refers to them as fine people.

- Clown makes an attack on Black NFL players for bringing attention to unarmed police killings. He uses language worse than what he used for Nazis and ISIS

- Clown begins to target immigration coming from "shithole countries". Why can't we have more people form Norway?

- White Supremacist activity and hate crimes make a huge increase statically. Clown ignores this. Also he defunds the FBI from investigating those crimes.

- Clown threatens to bring back Stop and Frisk nationally, a program that targets Black Americans for..... existing

- Clown tightens his rhetoric which motivates more people to act in violence. Train Attack, Parkland, Bombs, Synagogue shooting.

- White Americans start to get comfortable with Black Face again... I mean, its just Halloween, right?

- Voter Suppression happens nationally in the latest election with the worst being GA and parts of FL. Openly Racist candidates are re-elected into office again.....



So yeah, You're absolutely right Bernie. In the context of America, being afraid to vote for someone who's black because they are black isn't racism.... Its.... uh.... well..... what do we call it then?

Click to shrink...

I feel I got more educated reading this. Can anyone recommend a good book that covers this similarly in more detail?

 

[HotTakeCakes]

I'm sure there are a lot more points between these but it makes you wonder how the hell you go from

- GW Bush and the State allows countless black lives to die in Katrina due to lackluster response

Click to shrink...

to

- Obama becomes president, meanwhile a portion of the country gets really pissed...

Click to shrink...

then back to

- The Clown wins* (Foreign Interference, Voter Suppresion) and proceeds to essentially fuck shit up. White Supremacists begin to feel validated. They take off the hoods and replace it with a Red Cap

Click to shrink...

It's like 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

 

[Crimson-Death]

This board loves context so much. Lets do some context.



- American colonists commit one of the greatest sins in American Slavery

- Founding Fathers took part in owing slaves no matter how deplorable they thought the practice was.... still owned people, never freed them

- Pimp Daddy George takes a knee to franchising African Slaves in the Constitution because parts of Congress refused to sign to a Union with Africans being represented. The compromise is 3/5ths representation.

- Americans win independence and continue an era of absolute evil, torture and desecration towards the Africans who harvest the crops and built the country infrastructure

- Willie Lynch writes a letter stating he found the secret to fucking up those black people, sends it off to virtually all the slave owners. (the letter details issues that still plague the Black Community today)

- Dred Scott sues for his freedom on the grounds that he was kept as a slave in a free state..... He loses

- Slavery continues until the rise of Abolitionists which some even claim may have been for fiscal reasons rather than moral

- Confederacy rises as the South wants to maintain its economics and continue practicing Slavery

- The North goes to war with the Southern Traitors, and beats them. But poor Abraham doesn't want to rock the boat too much so he spares the lives of racists traitors allowing them to continue breathing. Not only that, he felt really bad they lost their breadwinner, so the Govt grants the traitors tax breaks and grants so they can continue enjoying their lives.

- Confederate crybabies get salty and butthurt and decide to stick to those Blacks during the Reconstruction Era. These practices evolve into Jim Crow

- Confederate Wives say "Don't leave us out!", they band and create the Daughters of the Confederacy. Their main mission is to embed the Confederate mission into schools and the education system known as the 'Lost Cause'

- Jim Crow comes in full effect, Segregation starts happening

- Lynchings become house parties, bring your kids! They'll be fine killers when they get older

- Black people are able to build a wealthy and beautiful community in Tulsa, only to be destroyed by evil jealous white racists who burned the town

- White people get bored and start to dress in blackface. Help create stereotypes that plague us today.

- KKK starts riding around killing black kids, black folk.... well anyone black...

- Black soldiers go fight WW2, US Army tells the British they need to treat em like shit so they don't get any ideas... Some Black soldiers end up staying in France because fuckkkkkk that

- Black People start to ask for representation, White People think they crazy as shit for even asking...

- Civil Rights Movements begin to form, KKKPolice start killing and beating everyones ass (they were doing this before, just upped it)
Mississippi Killings

- White Supremacists bomb a church in Alabama killing young black girls

- FBI starts spying and infiltrating Black Movements like Black Panthers and Civil Rights

- MLK gets killed, Malcolm gets killed

- Black People get fed up and burn everything..... oh! Civil Rights!

- Damn near nothing changes, Black people still get their ass beat and killed.... but they can vote now!! Oh wait.... Voter Laws and bullshit..... plus the poll operators who's just like "fuck no, law or not, you aint voting shit"

- Housing discrimination takes effect, Black people can't get grants nor any assistance

- The government drops a whole ass bomb on black people in Philly (MOVE)

- Crack becomes an epidemic when the CIA starts feeding the shit to low level dealers, they end up circling back and arresting the same dealers they supplied

- The response to Crack is a War on Drugs by Reagan, with strict jail time sentences. This begins Mass Incarceration. (The response to Opiods is love)

- Clinton continues Reagan's War on Drugs. FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT WHOO

- Rodney King gets his ass BEAT on camera..... All officers innocent, I mean he deserved it.

- GW Bush essentially cuts and limits funding for Black Education and the NAACP

- GW Bush and the State allows countless black lives to die in Katrina due to lackluster response

- Obama becomes president, meanwhile a portion of the country gets really pissed...

- A POS wannabe cop murders a young black boy going to the store. White America celebrates him.

- President tears up about the thought of a lost black youth..... The country GETS PISSED.

- Unarmed killings by Cops become national news, Black Lives Matters is formed. The country responds by demonizing the movement as terrorists.

- Bony hateful white kid runs into a black church and kills people. Find FB pics and posts of his hateful racist ass but the killing is about "religion" tho

- As a response to the President.... existing.... White People form the hateful Tea Party to primary Republicans and steer the party to its current form

- Republicans give the President the finger on virtually...... everything....

- A Clown, denied by his homeland... puts his bid in for President. Runs his platform off Racism. White America Cheers!

- The Clown wins* (Foreign Interference, Voter Suppresion) and proceeds to essentially fuck shit up. White Supremacists begin to feel validated. They take off the hoods and replace it with a Red Cap

- Supremacists march in Charlottesville and kill a white woman. The Clown refers to them as fine people.

- Clown makes an attack on Black NFL players for bringing attention to unarmed police killings. He uses language worse than what he used for Nazis and ISIS

- Clown begins to target immigration coming from "shithole countries". Why can't we have more people form Norway?

- White Supremacist activity and hate crimes make a huge increase statically. Clown ignores this. Also he defunds the FBI from investigating those crimes.

- Clown threatens to bring back Stop and Frisk nationally, a program that targets Black Americans for..... existing

- Clown tightens his rhetoric which motivates more people to act in violence. Train Attack, Parkland, Bombs, Synagogue shooting.

- White Americans start to get comfortable with Black Face again... I mean, its just Halloween, right?

- Voter Suppression happens nationally in the latest election with the worst being GA and parts of FL. Openly Racist candidates are re-elected into office again.....



So yeah, You're absolutely right Bernie. In the context of America, being afraid to vote for someone who's black because they are black isn't racism.... Its.... uh.... well..... what do we call it then?

Click to shrink...

Thank you for this and bringing it all together.
Bernie needs to go away and take a nap for awhile.

 

[TokyoJoe]

They were so afraid of Malcolm they had to kill him. Yet he lives on.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

Stop trying to make excuses, and I don't care if i's not politically expedient to call them racist, it's also not politically expedient to say they're not racist.

And fucking hell calling someone racist is not labeling them David Duke, this is such an absurd, and frankly insulting, argument and assumption. Stop.

And there is no to his credit, he gets no credit here, he has demonstrated that he is more afraid of offending white people than Black people and seems to forget who he needs on his side in the 2020 Primary if he doesn't want to get blown out again.

Click to shrink...

Good succinctly stated point in light of all the realpolitik justifications of this dumb statement by Bernie.

 

[uncelestial]

Update: NPR followed up with Bernie.

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/08/6658...omments-about-racism-hurting-black-candidates

Sanders' spokesman insists those remarks were taken out of context. Speaking to NPR, Sanders said any votes Gillum or Abrams lost over their race were entirely due to what he called "racist" campaigns run by their Republican opponents.

"There's no question that in Georgia and in Florida racism has reared its ugly head. And you have candidates who ran against Gillum and ran against Stacey Abrams who were racist and were doing everything they could to try to play whites against blacks," he said. "And that is an outrage, and we have got to continue doing everything that we can to fight all forms of racism."

Click to shrink...

Sounds like he is saying that black candidates were facing racist campaigns that tried to play white people against black people. There isn't much difference in my mind between a voter who was convinced by a campaign to be "uncomfortable" vs. the simple description of that voter's feelings as racism, but I guess in Bernie's mind there is daylight between the concept of "good person who was taken in by divisive race baiting campaign" and "racist." Essentially, trying to cast the Republican campaigns as the primary bad actors here.

 

[Kitsunelaine]

I'm sure there are a lot more points between these but it makes you wonder how the hell you go from



to


then back to


It's like 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

Click to shrink...

"well golly gee willickers, if you take out the surrounding context of a thing the thing no longer makes sense!"

EDIT: Oh you were agreeing with the point. Ignore this post.

 

[Ivanovic]

Beto also lost so I'm not really sure what point he's trying to make here.

 

[DigitalOp]

Update: NPR followed up with Bernie.

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/08/6658...omments-about-racism-hurting-black-candidates



Sounds like he is saying that black candidates were facing racist campaigns that tried to play white people against black people. There isn't much difference in my mind between a voter who was convinced by a campaign to be "uncomfortable" vs. the simple description of that voter's feelings as racism, but I guess in Bernie's mind there is daylight between the concept of "good person who was taken in by divisive race baiting campaign" and "racist." Essentially, trying to cast the Republican campaigns as the primary bad actors here.

Click to shrink...

lol bernie

fuck are we suppose to call you if you got duped into being racist?

Is this the argument that MAGATS are going to use in 2 years?

 

[uncelestial]

lol bernie

fuck are we suppose to call you if you got duped into being racist?

Click to shrink...

An Ambien-taker?

 

[Palette Swap]

Coates has touched many times on how colorblind economic approaches to inequality aren't as intersectional as they should be or think they are, because they simply ignore deep seated prejudices and worldviews. I think this speaks directly to the issue at hand :

Nevertheless, the argument that America's original sin was not deep-seated white supremacy but rather the exploitation of white labor by white capitalists—"white slavery"—proved durable. Indeed, the panic of white slavery lives on in our politics today. Black workers suffer because it was and is our lot. But when white workers suffer, something in nature has gone awry. And so an opioid epidemic among mostly white people is greeted with calls for compassion and treatment, as all epidemics should be, while a crack epidemic among mostly black people is greeted with scorn and mandatory minimums. Sympathetic op‑ed columns and articles are devoted to the plight of working-class whites when their life expectancy plummets to levels that, for blacks, society has simply accepted as normal. White slavery is sin. Nigger slavery is natural. This dynamic serves a very real purpose: the consistent awarding of grievance and moral high ground to that class of workers which, by the bonds of whiteness, stands closest to America's aristocratic class.

Click to shrink...

 

[Deleted member 13364]

Update: NPR followed up with Bernie.

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/08/6658...omments-about-racism-hurting-black-candidates



Sounds like he is saying that black candidates were facing racist campaigns that tried to play white people against black people. There isn't much difference in my mind between a voter who was convinced by a campaign to be "uncomfortable" vs. the simple description of that voter's feelings as racism, but I guess in Bernie's mind there is daylight between the concept of "good person who was taken in by divisive race baiting campaign" and "racist." Essentially, trying to cast the Republican campaigns as the primary bad actors here.

Click to shrink...

The "uncomfortable for the first time in their lives" part seems to have been glossed over a lot. Even from the initial interview I took it as meaning these are people who would have no issue voting for a black candidate in past circumstances, but the racist campaigns are what made them "uncomfortable". They're a different class of racists from the dyed in the wool racists who would never dream of voting for a black candidate regardless of the campaigns run against them, but they have voted for racist reasons in this instance. If these people are being bombarded with racist lies and not seeing the other side of it, this is going to be an ongoing issue for non-white candidates, and is something that needs to be tackled.
The principle of what Bernie is getting should be fine to highlight and discuss, but he phrased it incredibly poorly.

 

[SmarmySmurf]

The clarification doesn't improve the statement at all. Am I missing something?

 

[Deleted member 13364]

Coates has touched many times on how colorblind economic approaches to inequality aren't as intersectional as they should be or think they are, because they simply ignore deep seated prejudices and worldviews. I think this speaks directly to the issue at hand :

Click to shrink...

Are there progressive candidates who have run on platforms of tackling racial inequality only through "colorblind economic approaches" and ignored the specific racial issues?

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

 

[uncelestial]

The clarification doesn't improve the statement at all. Am I missing something?

Click to shrink...

Yes.

 

[travisbickle]

Stop trying to make excuses, and I don't care if i's not politically expedient to call them racist, it's also not politically expedient to say they're not racist.

Click to shrink...

Is it not?

British PM Gordon Brown called a woman a bigot, and that was picked out as one of the points leading to his demise in british politics. He wasn't mega popular but making a woman cry for what she thought was a legitimate comcern about immigration didn't help.

For better or worse (mainly worse), politicians still gotta be politicians. That's why these purity tests are really tearing apart any political progression in left movements.

 

[uncelestial]

Stop trying to make excuses, and I don't care if i's not politically expedient to call them racist, it's also not politically expedient to say they're not racist.

And fucking hell calling someone racist is not labeling them David Duke, this is such an absurd, and frankly insulting, argument and assumption. Stop.

And there is no to his credit, he gets no credit here, he has demonstrated that he is more afraid of offending white people than Black people and seems to forget who he needs on his side in the 2020 Primary if he doesn't want to get blown out again.

Click to shrink...

I get the indignation, excelsior, but I think the difference between unconscious racial biases that most people have vs. consciously holding political beliefs that enforce oppression is a real thing. The attempt to cultivate the former into the latter is being done actively by Republican candidates today. Where I'd disagree with Bernie is the idea that once you've crossed into the latter, you can credibly be excused as "not necessarily racist." Once you're there, you're there.

 

[Kitsunelaine]

I get the indignation, excelsior, but I think the difference between unconscious racial biases that most people have vs. consciously holding political beliefs that enforce oppression is a real thing. The attempt to cultivate the former into the latter is being done actively by Republican candidates today.

Click to shrink...

Hint: Nobody's saying there's no difference. Everyone's saying they're both racist. Those are not the same statements.

 

[uncelestial]

Hint: Nobody's saying there's no difference. Everyone's saying they're both racist. Those are not the same statements.

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I don't really need any "hints" about anything, but thanks? Calling out the fact that no attempt was made by excelsior to address any of the poster's ideas, which were all summarily dismissed as "excuses." The poster was offering something thoughtful in good faith. There is more to dissect when it comes to unconscious racial bias vs actively supporting oppression than putting "they're both racist" in bold, and you can discuss this difference without "excusing" anything. Major political parties are spending a lot of money and energy prying into unconscious biases to advance political agendas of oppression right now. We should talk about how to put that genie back in the bottle for voters with our own messaging -- freely, and openly.

 

[Terror-Billy]

I hope he runs in 2020 so Beto (if he decides to run) can kick his fucking ass on the primaries.

 

[Deleted member 13364]

Is it not?

British PM Gordon Brown called a woman a bigot, and that was picked out as one of the points leading to his demise in british politics. He wasn't mega popular but making a woman cry for what she thought was a legitimate comcern about immigration didn't help.

For better or worse (mainly worse), politicians still gotta be politicians. That's why these purity tests are really tearing apart any political progression in left movements.

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My main issue with what he has said is that he could have made the point he was trying to make (people who otherwise would have been fine with voting for a black candidate were ultimately swayed by racist campaigns against them) could have been made without the "not necessarily racist" part. It's not that he should have called them racist.

 

[Deleted member 2254]

"When I said that not voting for someone just because he's black is not racist, it was taken out of context."

 

[Jeffolation]

I have Sanders fatigue.

 

[Soundscream]

Yes.

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Um he still isnt saying he was wrong to say not voting for someone because of their skin color is racist.

 

[Kitsunelaine]

I don't really need any "hints" about anything, but thanks? Calling out the fact that no attempt was made by excelsior to address any of the poster's ideas, which were all summarily dismissed as "excuses." The poster was offering something thoughtful in good faith. There is more to dissect when it comes to unconscious racial bias vs actively supporting oppression than putting "they're both racist" in bold, and you can discuss this difference without "excusing" anything. Major political parties are spending a lot of money and energy prying into unconscious biases to advance political agendas of oppression right now. We should talk about how to put that genie back in the bottle for voters with our own messaging -- freely, and openly.

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The difference is meaningless when both persons in question promote the same things and have the same impact on minorities across the globe no matter what their purported reasonings may be. That's why they're both racist.

If you care more about the reasons behind why a person is doing something than what the effect that person is having on the world is you've got some backward thinking.

 

[uncelestial]

Um he still isnt saying he was wrong to say not voting for someone because of their skin color is racist.

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No, but he has now explained that he feels that what has happened is that Republican campaigns are preying on unconscious racial bias that most people have and cultivating it to a level where targeted voters feel that bias more consciously, and that is true, and that is a better statement than the original. I agree that what they are feeling is best described, simply, as "racism," but Sanders is talking about a real phenomenon of cultivation that is turning people who might not have been described that way before the new, white supremacist-baiting Republican party got a hold of them.

The difference is meaningless when both persons in question promote the same things and have the same impact on minorities across the globe no matter what their purported reasonings may be. That's why they're both racist.

If you care more about the reasons behind why a person is doing something than what the effect that person is having on the world is you've got some backward thinking.

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I don't think that. You really don't have anything to teach me here, by the way.

Some advice I have for you, though, would be that we ignore the active cultivation of racism by the modern Republican party at our own political peril. We have to counteract what these campaigns are doing, and that is Sanders' point.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

The more time passed the more I am happy he never became president.

Hopefully Trump goes away and a new better president takes his place.

 

[massoluk]

I'm not quite sure how his follow up response addressed the statement he made prior.

 

[Kitsunelaine]

I don't think that. You really don't have anything to teach me here, by the way.

Some advice I have for you, though, would be that we ignore the active cultivation of racism by the modern Republican party at our own political peril. We have to counteract what these campaigns are doing, and that is Sanders' point.

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You say you don't think that they're more important, but you're arguing that "We have to counteract what these campaigns are doing" which says that you do, because that's what you're promoting our order of things should be: Care more about the people expressing racism than the racism expressed.

 

[Deleted member 13364]

The difference is meaningless when both persons in question promote the same things and have the same impact on minorities across the globe no matter what their purported reasonings may be. That's why they're both racist.

If you care more about the reasons behind why a person is doing something than what the effect that person is having on the world is you've got some backward thinking.

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The difference is not meaningless. His entire point is that there are people who may have considered voting for a black candidate that did not because the opposition were allowed to run racist campaigns against them. That does not remove accountability from the individual for ultimately voting on the basis of racist arguments, but acknowledging the difference is important because it highlights an issue which should be tackled in order to ensure POC candidates can win elections in the future.

 

[Soundscream]

No, but he has now explained that he feels that what has happened is that Republican campaigns are preying on unconscious racial bias that most people have and cultivating it to a level where targeted voters feel that bias more consciously, and that is true, and that is a better statement than the original. I agree that what they are feeling is best described, simply, as "racism," but Sanders is talking about a real phenomenon of cultivation that is turning people who might not have been described that way before the new, white supremacist-baiting Republican party got a hold of them.


I don't think that. You really don't have anything to teach me here, by the way.

Some advice I have for you, though, would be that we ignore the active cultivation of racism by the modern Republican party at our own political peril. We have to counteract what these campaigns are doing, and that is Sanders' point.

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Then the clarification doesn't mean shit, and shows just how fucking clueless he is when trying to win black support. This isnt the first time and itwont be the last.

 

[StrayDog]

https://newrepublic.com/article/137103/bernie-looks-ahead

I've spoken with longtime supporters of yours who feel that you lost in part because despite your own record in civil rights, you didn't seem comfortable talking about race in a way that—

[Interrupting] OK, see, this is an issue I'm not really—what I don't want to do is get into me.

I'm not raising this to talk about you. I'm interested in hearing your take on racism. Do you see it as primarily a class issue—a by-product of economic injustice? Or is it a separate and distinct problem of its own?

It's a complicated answer. It's a good question, but I prefer not to get into it right now. [Stony glare, followed by silence.]

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[uncelestial]

You say you don't think that they're more important, but you're arguing that "We have to counteract what these campaigns are doing" which says that you do, because that's what you're promoting our order of things should be: Care more about the people expressing racism than the racism expressed.

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That's a ridiculous stretch that I really don't feel much of a need to take seriously. You can care about multiple things at once. The insistence that I have an "order" in which I care about things is a made up thing that you are winging right now. We should care about a) people who fan the flames of hatred, and b) the harm that hatred causes. Reverse the order I just listed those things in if it helps you prioritize them for yourself. I am not placing any such priority.

Then the clarification doesn't mean shit, and shows just how fucking clueless he is when trying to win black support. This isnt the first time and itwont be the last.

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I agree, he really doesn't connect with black voters, and honestly Coates kinda had his number when he called Sanders out for espousing no-racial-context economic solutions and opposing reparations.

 

[Kitsunelaine]

The difference is not meaningless. His entire point is that there are people who may have considered voting for a black candidate that did not because the opposition were allowed to run racist campaigns against them. That does not remove accountability from the individual for ultimately voting on the basis of racist arguments, aknowledging the difference is important because it highlights an issue which should be tackled in order to ensure POC candidates can win elections in the future.

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I pretty clearly said that there is no meaningful difference because the effect these people have on the world is exactly the same. You haven't actually provided a rebuttal to that here.

That's a ridiculous stretch that I really don't feel much of a need to take seriously. You can care about multiple things at once. The insistence that I have an "order" in which I care about things is a made up thing that you are winging right now. We should care about a) people who fan the flames of hatred, and b) the harm that hatred causes. Reverse the order I just listed those things in if it helps you prioritize them for yourself. I am not placing any such priority.

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It's not a stretch because it's the hill you've chosen to die on. If you thought there was no problem in calling a spade a spade with racism you wouldn't be here arguing.

 

[BGA]

This board loves context so much. Lets do some context.



- American colonists commit one of the greatest sins in American Slavery

- Founding Fathers took part in owing slaves no matter how deplorable they thought the practice was.... still owned people, never freed them

- Pimp Daddy George takes a knee to franchising African Slaves in the Constitution because parts of Congress refused to sign to a Union with Africans being represented. The compromise is 3/5ths representation.

- Americans win independence and continue an era of absolute evil, torture and desecration towards the Africans who harvest the crops and built the country infrastructure

- Willie Lynch writes a letter stating he found the secret to fucking up those black people, sends it off to virtually all the slave owners. (the letter details issues that still plague the Black Community today)

- Dred Scott sues for his freedom on the grounds that he was kept as a slave in a free state..... He loses

- Slavery continues until the rise of Abolitionists which some even claim may have been for fiscal reasons rather than moral

- Confederacy rises as the South wants to maintain its economics and continue practicing Slavery

- The North goes to war with the Southern Traitors, and beats them. But poor Abraham doesn't want to rock the boat too much so he spares the lives of racists traitors allowing them to continue breathing. Not only that, he felt really bad they lost their breadwinner, so the Govt grants the traitors tax breaks and grants so they can continue enjoying their lives.

- Confederate crybabies get salty and butthurt and decide to stick to those Blacks during the Reconstruction Era. These practices evolve into Jim Crow

- Confederate Wives say "Don't leave us out!", they band and create the Daughters of the Confederacy. Their main mission is to embed the Confederate mission into schools and the education system known as the 'Lost Cause'

- Jim Crow comes in full effect, Segregation starts happening

- Lynchings become house parties, bring your kids! They'll be fine killers when they get older

- Black people are able to build a wealthy and beautiful community in Tulsa, only to be destroyed by evil jealous white racists who burned the town

- White people get bored and start to dress in blackface. Help create stereotypes that plague us today.

- KKK starts riding around killing black kids, black folk.... well anyone black...

- Black soldiers go fight WW2, US Army tells the British they need to treat em like shit so they don't get any ideas... Some Black soldiers end up staying in France because fuckkkkkk that

- Black People start to ask for representation, White People think they crazy as shit for even asking...

- Civil Rights Movements begin to form, KKKPolice start killing and beating everyones ass (they were doing this before, just upped it)
Mississippi Killings

- White Supremacists bomb a church in Alabama killing young black girls

- FBI starts spying and infiltrating Black Movements like Black Panthers and Civil Rights

- MLK gets killed, Malcolm gets killed

- Black People get fed up and burn everything..... oh! Civil Rights!

- Damn near nothing changes, Black people still get their ass beat and killed.... but they can vote now!! Oh wait.... Voter Laws and bullshit..... plus the poll operators who's just like "fuck no, law or not, you aint voting shit"

- Housing discrimination takes effect, Black people can't get grants nor any assistance

- The government drops a whole ass bomb on black people in Philly (MOVE)

- Crack becomes an epidemic when the CIA starts feeding the shit to low level dealers, they end up circling back and arresting the same dealers they supplied

- The response to Crack is a War on Drugs by Reagan, with strict jail time sentences. This begins Mass Incarceration. (The response to Opiods is love)

- Clinton continues Reagan's War on Drugs. FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT WHOO

- Rodney King gets his ass BEAT on camera..... All officers innocent, I mean he deserved it.

- GW Bush essentially cuts and limits funding for Black Education and the NAACP

- GW Bush and the State allows countless black lives to die in Katrina due to lackluster response

- Obama becomes president, meanwhile a portion of the country gets really pissed...

- A POS wannabe cop murders a young black boy going to the store. White America celebrates him.

- President tears up about the thought of a lost black youth..... The country GETS PISSED.

- Unarmed killings by Cops become national news, Black Lives Matters is formed. The country responds by demonizing the movement as terrorists.

- Bony hateful white kid runs into a black church and kills people. Find FB pics and posts of his hateful racist ass but the killing is about "religion" tho

- As a response to the President.... existing.... White People form the hateful Tea Party to primary Republicans and steer the party to its current form

- Republicans give the President the finger on virtually...... everything....

- A Clown, denied by his homeland... puts his bid in for President. Runs his platform off Racism. White America Cheers!

- The Clown wins* (Foreign Interference, Voter Suppresion) and proceeds to essentially fuck shit up. White Supremacists begin to feel validated. They take off the hoods and replace it with a Red Cap

- Supremacists march in Charlottesville and kill a white woman. The Clown refers to them as fine people.

- Clown makes an attack on Black NFL players for bringing attention to unarmed police killings. He uses language worse than what he used for Nazis and ISIS

- Clown begins to target immigration coming from "shithole countries". Why can't we have more people form Norway?

- White Supremacist activity and hate crimes make a huge increase statically. Clown ignores this. Also he defunds the FBI from investigating those crimes.

- Clown threatens to bring back Stop and Frisk nationally, a program that targets Black Americans for..... existing

- Clown tightens his rhetoric which motivates more people to act in violence. Train Attack, Parkland, Bombs, Synagogue shooting.

- White Americans start to get comfortable with Black Face again... I mean, its just Halloween, right?

- Voter Suppression happens nationally in the latest election with the worst being GA and parts of FL. Openly Racist candidates are re-elected into office again.....



So yeah, You're absolutely right Bernie. In the context of America, being afraid to vote for someone who's black because they are black isn't racism.... Its.... uh.... well..... what do we call it then?

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I wish I can save this post :(

 

[SmarmySmurf]

https://newrepublic.com/article/137103/bernie-looks-ahead

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Someone should take his shovel away so he can't keep digging. jfc

 

[uncelestial]

I pretty clearly said that there is no meaningful difference because the effect these people have on the world is exactly the same. You haven't actually provided a rebuttal to that here.

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Are you really not reading the part about how the poster is concerned about fighting to help candidates of color win elections when they are facing campaigns like Sanders is describing?

It's not a stretch because it's the hill you've chosen to die on. If you thought there was no problem in calling a spade a spade with racism you wouldn't be here arguing.

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I haven't died on any hill and you're probably not even vaguely aware of what my views are here, judging by your posts so far.

 

[tommy7154]

I hope he runs in 2020 so Beto (if he decides to run) can kick his fucking ass on the primaries.

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It's talk like this that will split us though. I like both. If there's people on the fence and you're talking shit about one it could lead to spite votes. I can clarify further if necessary but right now I'm on mobile at work.

 

[Tukarrs]

Someone should take his shovel away so he can't keep digging. jfc

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Keep digging from a 2016 article?