Okay, hear me out, we start a GoFundMe for approx. 8.8 billion dollars, then use that money to make a donation to bernie on behalf of every American citizen, thereby transmogrifying them all into middle class white dudes and solving wealth inequality once and for all.
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Bernie Sanders will Run Again in 2020
- Thread starter RDreamer
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I agree that should not happen under any circumstance to those leftists. Strangely, whenever I bring up this happening to centrists I may as well have sent the post to another dimension because every leftist ignores it as if it was never written - and I'm not the only person this occurs to. So, is this truly about the very real problem with erasure, or about which team you belong to?
What's disappointing is how true this ends up being. Look what happened to Beto and he wasn't even running, because the pro-Bernie squad thought he was a threat to stealing his votes in '20.
They don't have to, all they need is to make a thread in OT and they'll flock to it to get their digs in at the establishment at the slightest glance of them doing something they don't like. Yes, the centrists do this leftists, which they shouldn't - but let's be consistent, rather than only being ok when it's your side doing that.
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It wasn't just you, though.
There was a ton of posters with this mindset on GAF back in 2016, and the behavior was supported by the old mod/admin staff.
That's called criticizing and having standards. Say what you want, but Aoc and Bernie supportera are quite capable of criticizing them.
There are Centrist/liberals on twitter that HATE AOC. That was a sight to behold (And at least once I've seen a tweet from them be posted on Poliera, though to be fair it was one of the milder accounts)
There are Centrist/liberals on twitter that HATE AOC. That was a sight to behold (And at least once I've seen a tweet from them be posted on Poliera, though to be fair it was one of the milder accounts)
Yep, it was stupid toxic. Almost anything you said about Hillary that wasn't positive got you Bandwagon'd.
*looks at the leftists immediately cancelling AOC.
That's very true.
But to paint their supporters as being blind and not being critical of Bernie and AOC is disingenuous (this ain't you though, but people that say this exist)
It certainly swayed the way i viewed things (which is stupid of me)
Pointing out the existence of a subset of toxic white male racist/misogynistic supporters is not "erasing" people who don't fit into that mold, nor is pointing out demographic data "erasing" people who don't fall into the minority. Most black people vote for Democrats and pointing that out doesn't mean that black Republicans aren't a thing. There are plenty of female and/or nonwhite Bernie supporters, and some of them are toxic too! It's just that the worst ones tend to be the white bros because there's a Trump/Sanders overlap that's amplified by the nature of the internet. Hit me up via PM if you want an example of what I'm talking about.
When people say things like "I can't wait till I see how OT reacts" it's sarcasm, because you had people racing to post any sort of David "Aren't Hugo Chavez and AIPAC great!" Sirota hit piece a month or two ago with the intent of deliberately keeping them bumped to the front page because their goal is to attack and tear down any candidate that threatens their favorite. That behavior pretty much led to the creation of the 2020 thread to try and quarantine the toxicity along with front page spam in general over minutiae.
There are places other than hangouts and there are very much people eager to post any hit piece on AOC or Pelosi they can get.
No, that's not what that is. It's toxic fandom behavior. It is viewing any opposing politician as a threat and attempting to "Cancel" them, much in the way console wars or Pop star fandom wars occur. It's the exact same crap, just with politicians. Which yes, gets "normie" Democrats who recognize that politics is a team sport really fucking mad because winning the primary does not guarantee winning the general election. Launching attack after attack on a candidate during the primaries after your preferred candidate has been all but eliminated is super shitty behavior. As is launching attack after attack at any of your billion challengers when no one knows who's actually going to be the final nominee.
Like, if you got overly invested in 2016 even though you can't ever vote or donate? Maybe the lesson is to back off and stop getting so invested in a foreign election that you can't actively participate in to the degree where you're attacking people!
Good place to start on that -https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publications/2016-elections/political-divisions-in-2016-and-beyond
By far the best rundown of US political dynamics and why those "WWC" types have been the swing voters for so long.
I'm not a neolib
Not yet a socialist.
All I need is time,
A moment that is mine,
While I'm in between.
I'm not a neolib
(I'm not a neolib don't tell me what to believe).
Not Yet a socialist
(I'm just trying to find the socialist in me, yeah).
All I need is time (All I need),
A moment that is mine (That is mine),
While I'm in between.
It's been a tradition for all major candidates to give a speech at AIPAC. He deliberately snubbed AIPAC in 2016. He's been vocally critical of Israel and generally supportive of Palestinians. He's against BDS, but also against anti-BDS legislation.
Bernie has an antagonistic relationship with Saudi Arabia.
There's no question that he'll be harsher on both than Trump, and at least as complicit as Obama. There's only so much you can do with the other levers of Government having their own agenda.
Toxic behavior exists very much, and the people who cancelled AOC as far back as Autumn 2018 are laughable but, I find it funny how there are people who act as though AOC or Bernie supporters don't criticize them when they do. Not all of it's in a non-toxic manner, but they do
and not that it justifies toxicity (God no), but there's a difference in weight between anger and criticism towards a politician vs a Pop culture thing simply because politicians can directly affect lives in a way that's way more significant than the latter.
And I agree with the notion that stanning politicians is bad
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Leftists immediately cancelling AOC and people who think RT is a valid news source probably has a significant Venn Diagram given who the prominent "leftists" were on twitter who were very mad. Because you can't spell "The Federalist" without "left"!
This is whataboutism ™
Anyways, leftists who have immediately cancelled AOC are about as significant in size as people like the Hoarse Whisperer on twitter
(Yes, this is also whataboutism™)
Pointing out who the most prominent voices on twitter were who were upset and what they had in common as a connection isn't "whataboutism" lol (Michael Tracey just wrote a piece for the hyper-conservative Federalist which no liberal/leftist actually reads, which well, do the math.)
Whataboutism is "the traffic in DC is really bad" "well I don't see your traffic in Cali getting any better!" as an attack designed to deflect/derail the argument back at the person making the initial claim instead of actually addressing it fairly.
So we're just going to spend the next fucking 18 months of this incessant "leftists" thing? Cause good lord that's going to be obnoxious.
I'm using the quotes because I'm referring specifically to the RT crew who were lashing out at AOC a week ago. Who are not ever operating in good faith on any topic.
This is one of the reason why Bernie should have stayed out, you weren't going to get this reaction from Warren.
It seems like you're trying to insinuate they're russian shills.
*looks at Michael's twitter
Giving criticisms, even harsh criticisms, isn't the same as cancelling. What a concept, right.
But even if he did cancel her, Leftists aren't a hivemind monolith. Like Tracey praised Ro Khanna for working with Tuckerson? Lots of leftists criticized Ro for that.
And a lot of leftists were calling out against the cancelling of AOC.
I don't think that that reason is valid or big enough as a reason for Bernie to not run.
It's not really an insinuation when they work for or with Russia's version of Fox News. (And I'm specifically referring to 4 people in particular, not anyone who was doing this.)
Edit: To Clarify the specific names- Dan Cohen (works for RT), Max Blumenthal (attended that same RT Gala as Flynn/Stein, actively promotes it), Rania Khalek (used to write for them) and Michael Tracey.
You can't just look at the twitter, you have to look at his behavior. Getting paid to write for a conservative propaganda outlet like The Federalist is not a normal thing for people on the left, just like getting paid to show up on Fox News isn't a normal thing for people on the left, just like being a regular guest on RT isn't a normal thing for people on the left.
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Is Noam Chomsky a russian shill? Goes on RT regularly but was against Trump pulling out of Syria.
Funny enough, it just so happens that back in 2016, I was way more elitist and anti-poor. It wasn't the height of my classism, but yeah, I was barely critical of corporations fucking over people, and back then, I had more views that looked down upon blue collar workers like Farmers. I also was less aware on issues of racial justice and women's issues back then, and I was also more homophobic.
Not saying that it was connected, but just a weird self-observation.
He's a massive idiot, but like I said, he doesn't represent all leftists and leftists aren't a single hivemind monolith.
I never said he did, that's why I used the quote marks because he's a LINO.
Being a useful idiot who doesn't treat them like what they are isn't really the same thing.
Do you think that RT is actually a valid news source?
And I never said that you said that he did.
It's inevitable and not just here, but everywhere.
Wow, way to joke about animal cruelty in an attempt to diffuse criticisms against your cop candidate.
George Soros doesn't own and operate the international equivalent of Fox News, doesn't hack foreign governments and launder it via wikileaks, and doesn't coordinate with foreign candidates in order to try and destabilize western democracies.
George Soros isn't that, But Russia isn't the only country that is "that".
Sounds like whataboutism. That we jumped from RT criticism to this says it all
You really don't understand the definition of whataboutism.
I mean you can argue that the Russia thing is way WAY too hyperfocused, but this is Russia we're talking about, they're not that Innocent. In fact, they're the extreme opposite of innocent.
You don't think I'm aware that I used whataboutism in my post?
It's a little strange for you to be complaining about me using "whataboutism" when I'm not and then follow up with an unironic usage of it yes.
The reason it's called out is because it's a trolling debate tactic that's toxic to good discourse. The point is to not be using it if you're trying to argue in good faith!
The Russia stuff is absolutely a real, serious problem but certain people definitely do use it to dismiss anything they don't like politically in a similar way to the Soros thing, often with leftists.
This is seriously one of my favorite Janet Jackson songs at this moment
The Man in the song: "Janet, that's WHATABOUTISM"
Jokes aside, I used whataboutism to point out a hypocrisy (Yes, I'm aware that Multitasking exists and I'm aware the US self-criticizes)
Replying by using the term "Whataboutism" when one brings up the US as a reply to talking about Russia doesn't automatically absolve the US of its wrongdoings.
What you said is very true, Whataboutism is very frequently used in talking in bad faith and as such, using Whataboutism as a reply to a a post talking about Russia doesn't suddenly absolve Russia of its evil and atrocities.
So ultimately, and why it's frowned on in discourse, is that it adds nothing to the conversation. No one claimed US didn't have wrong-doings, so why even try to make that point. The conversation was specifically about Russia and, more specifically, RT, before a bad false equivalence derailed it.
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