A friend is going to let me game share so I'll play it tonight. Since it's a long game I dunno if I'll finish it but we'll see.
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Best Combat system this gen, best Combat system of all time
- Thread starter RennerSage
- Start date
A friend is going to let me game share so I'll play it tonight. Since it's a long game I dunno if I'll finish it but we'll see.
A friend is going to let me game share so I'll play it tonight. Since it's a long game I dunno if I'll finish it but we'll see.
Based on previous posts of his, he quit the game very early, before receiving a single trophy and you get a trophy after the first few hours. What that means is he's speaking largely from ignorance on the game. I'm not saying his initial impressions aren't valid and he can quit whatever he wants but it's pretty difficult to have a firm grasp on Witcher's combat at that point especially when a lot of things haven't been unlocked yet. I will say some things about it are obtuse in their explanation and understanding how they work. For example, it would seem that animations are completely random but they are actually based on the proximity your character is from your target. I think a lot of people avoid using things like bombs, sword oils, potions, Signs when they first start out and that tarnishes their perceptions even though it's better to use all of those things.
If I for example started God of War on Give Me a God of War difficulty and quit after the first couple hours that would have really soured me on the game and there's a lot of stuff I wouldn't know about the combat system. Now in no way am I comparing the quality of Witcher 3 and God of War's combat systems but simply saying how an initial experience may not be so representative of what the game provides in combat.
Again, not saying the combat is great by any means but I think it's absurd to say it's the worst also.
Hmm ...i wouldnt say witchers combat evolves too much by itself but i also think one can do a lot worse than w3's combat. while its probably the worst thing in the game , theres turds like elex or technomancer thats way worse.
I like Elex, no doubt the combat is jank though and worse than Witcher 3. There isn't a ton of evolution but some of it is as I said, if you've only played for a few hours you're probably not utilizing things available from the start either like bombs, Signs to their fullest extent etc.
You know whats even worse than combat in witcher 3?
Walking! Try go up a stair inside a building. Harder than my bloodborne platinum.
Walking! Try go up a stair inside a building. Harder than my bloodborne platinum.
Monster Hunter World changed the game
Wins handily in my book
Though Bloodborne is so slick I have to give it an honorable mention
Wins handily in my book
Though Bloodborne is so slick I have to give it an honorable mention
IMO no other character controls as well as Bayonetta, it's a joy playing that game.
Devil May Cry 4 SE is also really good. Haven't played Ninja Gaiden ;_;
Bloodborne is incredible in its own way too. It's not about having an insane moveset or chaining combos, but more importantly paying attention to the enemies patterns and punish them without getting too greedy. Also I love how you can stagger and do increased damage to the bigger bosses by focusing on the same limbs before they regenerate them. It easily has the best bosses I've faced in a game so far, avoiding enemies attacks and proceed to counter them immediately has a really fantastic feeling to it.
Still haven't played Nioh too, though tbh the betas did nothing for me. But I'm buying the game for sure sooner or later.
lmao you're not wrong. Before they patched the alternate movement in and gave us the option to turn off auto-center camera the game felt extremely clunky to just move around, especially in close spaces. It's much better now thankfully, though the combat still sucks.
Devil May Cry 4 SE is also really good. Haven't played Ninja Gaiden ;_;
Bloodborne is incredible in its own way too. It's not about having an insane moveset or chaining combos, but more importantly paying attention to the enemies patterns and punish them without getting too greedy. Also I love how you can stagger and do increased damage to the bigger bosses by focusing on the same limbs before they regenerate them. It easily has the best bosses I've faced in a game so far, avoiding enemies attacks and proceed to counter them immediately has a really fantastic feeling to it.
Still haven't played Nioh too, though tbh the betas did nothing for me. But I'm buying the game for sure sooner or later.
lmao you're not wrong. Before they patched the alternate movement in and gave us the option to turn off auto-center camera the game felt extremely clunky to just move around, especially in close spaces. It's much better now thankfully, though the combat still sucks.
There are quite a few games this gen alone with straight up fun combat.
Bloodborne
Horizon
Nioh
God of War
Uncharted 4
Dark Souls 3
Loved them all. But the pinnacle of combat this generation (and maybe all time) would be Bloodborne and God of War. I can see myself going back to these games years after release (which I already do with Bloodborne).
Bloodborne
Horizon
Nioh
God of War
Uncharted 4
Dark Souls 3
Loved them all. But the pinnacle of combat this generation (and maybe all time) would be Bloodborne and God of War. I can see myself going back to these games years after release (which I already do with Bloodborne).
Just so I have this clear, you've played the new God of War extensively as to have an informed opinion and your conclusion is that it's a joke to compare its combat system to Dark souls 3? Why don't you explain what it is about the new God of War that makes it fall woefully short of games like Noih, Bloodborne or Dark Souls 3.
A week ago, in a thread asking "Will you be buying God of War or Yakuza?"
Bloody ridiculous.
I think first impressions on the core mechanic are very important. A combat system can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be, but the core has to be good IMO. There are games that I start and before more movesets come into play or complexities, it feels great. For example, the first time I fired up Demon's Souls and Dragon's Dogma, I said to myself, this feels just right. Same with Breath of The Wild, and same with Dark Souls and God of War (any of the four main line games).
It's not so much the signs or oils and bombs, etc. I know my buddy played the game not even caring about much of that stuff except oils. The problem with the combat comes with the way it controls and as you said, the proximity from target, which when playing a game, I don't think makes a great experience. To me playing an action rpg, the story and world is as important as the combat, but I give the combat much more value since it is a game. Of course if the world bores me, I will also put it down. Like I did with Kingdom of Amalur. I really enjoyed the combat and the skill tree, but man, I got to a point where I felt I was falling asleep at the wheel because everything else about the game around me felt so generic.
So I do think it is fair. I go back every so often back to the game to continue on, but I end up stopping again. So if he does not like the controls now, he won't like them later. I only go back to it because I try to force myself through it because I love everything else about it.
Pretty amusing that you were lol'ing at mentions of a game that you've never even played.
This gen:
1. Horizon Zero Dawn
2. God of War
3. Bloodborne
4. Nioh
All time:
1. Horizon Zero Dawn
2. God of War
3. Bloodborne
4. Dark Souls
5. Nioh
1. Horizon Zero Dawn
2. God of War
3. Bloodborne
4. Nioh
All time:
1. Horizon Zero Dawn
2. God of War
3. Bloodborne
4. Dark Souls
5. Nioh
I don't see how this can even be close...
This gif is always so satisfying.
The best of all time?
I will be pleasantly surprised. But it has to be because of the honeymoon period. Thinking.jpg
I'd love to eat crow tonight.
I consider both DMC4 and Bayonetta to be last gen, when they were first released.
The best of all time?
I will be pleasantly surprised. But it has to be because of the honeymoon period. Thinking.jpg
I'd love to eat crow tonight.
It's like a 30-40 hour game. The more you play, the more the combat opens up. You're barely going to be scratching the surface of the game or the combat in a single share play session. Why not just buy the game?
I can use my friend's completed save.
But honestly if it takes 30 hours for a game to get good... Then it isn't the best of all time.
Ninja Gaiden Black takes 4-5 hours before you unlock certain weapons or scrolls, but it's core combat is amazing.
If I play for 3 hours and the combat is jank...
The core combat of GoW is amazing. The problem is that in the beginning you don't have a lot of moves so you end up repeating a lot. As the game progresses you unlock many, many new skills and the combat really opens up.
I mean, if the core combat of a game sucks then nothing could make it better anyway.
I can easily imagine it being better than Souls. Nioh would be very impressive, but better than DMC4SE and NGB. I'll type in all caps.
The combat is great from the offset but it is comparatively bare bones compared to late game movesets, there's also a steep learning curve. The amount of stuff you unlock over time is gargantuan and constantly opens up the combat in new and exciting ways. It's the kind of combat that is so systems and mechanics heavy you can play for hours and still not have come close to mastering it. 30 hours in and I was still experimenting with new moves, plays, combos etc.
And lol at game sharing, and then game sharing a late save just for the purpose of presumably unfairly critiquing the games combat. What is even the point of ruining the game for yourself like that? Clearly you have little actual interest in it, or at the very least no interest in properly immersing yourself in it.
What?
I'm not ruining the game for myself, the person just won't use their account. It doesn't matter if I do it on mine or not.
If I really like the game I'll buy it and play on mine. People are claiming the combat is somehow better than NGB. This is have to see, that's all.
No one is really breaking down what the combat feels like or why it's good.
If you load up a late save, you'll be potentially ruining the game for yourself. Not just in terms of major spoilers, but having access to a massive breadth of combat options that you'll neither have had the long time investment and muscle memory to properly use, have learned or developed, but also the joy and fun of constantly unlocking new and exciting combat elements.
If thst spoils the game for me, GoW would be extremely unique. I largely don't care about being spoiled. Whatever the final boss is or whatever doesn't matter. Besides, I'm approaching this entirely on the game's combat. That's all I'm interested in.
I'll load up a late save if early on sucks and I want to see what it's like with stuff unlocked.
Honestly, if it takes a game 30 hours to have good combat that would suck. If it takes 30 hours to appreciate the combat, that would also suck. I doubt GoW has this issue and I'm not investing that much time to give it a go. I can barely finish an 8 hour game as it is lol. It's been a year since... Nioh
No one has really done that for any of the games mentioned. It's not necessarily even a quantifiable thing. It's about how things feel. God of Wars combat is extremely weighty and powerful, but also fluid, precise and ultimately super satisfying.
But to try to answer your question about why it's so good, I guess it's the above things coupled with the sheer breadth of strategic, mechanics and combat options available to the player at any one time, and how effortlessly you can switch between them dynamically in combat engagements.
If you vaguely summarise just some of the combat options available to the player at any one time, all at once, interchangeably and dynamically;
Atreus
- You can use him to auto fire at enemies
- You can also specifically aim for him.
- You can use him strategically to distract enemies, or to keep enemies suspended in air, on the ground etc.
- You can switch between arrows for DPS, stun, shock, weakening, slowing etc.
- You can use his magic rune specials which also have different qualities, eg damage, keeping enemies in place, stun etc.
Axe Long Range
- You can throw the axe with either a light or heavy throw.
- You can also long charge throws to either add frost damage, explosions or to target multiple enemies.
- You can use the axe to specifically target enemy weak spots, limbs etc to stop specific attacks, stun, do more DPS, trip them over etc.
- You can leave the axe in an enemy to keep them frozen or impaled. You can also kick these enemies in to other enemies to chain freeze.
- You can strategically position yourself to call back the axe so on its return it hits other enemies, or hits certain weak spots, or their legs to trip them up etc.
- You can have it so precision hitting specific weak spots powers any potential return throw.
Close quarters shield and melee
- You can perform light and heavy melee attacks.
- You can perform specific light, heavy, and charged light and heavy attacks, that are only available while evading or dashing.
- Melee builds up a separate stun bar, which you can use to enable to to pull off specific finishers.
- Later you can instant recall your axe to combo in to the middle of a melee flurry.
- You can block certain attacks with the shield.
- On effective block timings or parries, you can do a follow up counter move to stun, DPS etc.
- Follow up moves include light and heavy, and charged light and heavy too.
- You can also do specific light and heavy attacks with the shield itself too, including concussive blasts, slams, knocking enemies over by their feet etc.
- You can perform specific light and heavy sprinting melee attacks.
Close quarters axe combat
- You can perform light and heavy axe attacks, including charged or powered light and heavy attacks too.
- You can juggle enemies, perform specific combos, finishers and so on.
- You can perform specific light, heavy, and charged light and heavy attacks, that are only available while evading or dashing.
- You can perform specific light and heavy sprinting axe attacks.
- You can pause mid combo or mid attack, to switch stances and chain to other specific light and heavy attacks and combos.
- And much more I won't mention because of spoilers.
Magic and specials
- You can do specific light and heavy rune magic attacks, that can be good for dps, aoe, stun, freeze etc.
- You can do specific talisman abilities that have a wide range of effects, from granting temporary health or defence boosts, barriers, slowing down time etc etc.
- You can use Spartan rage, a special power mode which in and of itself has an entire new moveset.
To be able to dynamically, fluidly and constantly interchange between all the above mechanics and more, at any moment, at any given time in the midst and flow of combat, honestly adds for a massive amount of combat depth and complexity for those that care for it, and from a systems perspective, is imo far more comprehensive and deep than Soulsborne and similar comparatives.
Like I said earlier, there's such an abundance of gameplay and combat systems in play that it's not only a bit overwhelming at times, but even 30 hours in I was still constantly experimenting.
Matter of taste it seems. Personally I loved Nioh whereas DMC4 felt stiff and kind of boring to me. Now I know that you can pull off amazing stuff in DMC4 so I acknowledge that it has well thought out system in place. Just not my thing.
Do you think if you loaded up a late game Nioh or Bloodborne save, without any prior experience in the games or their respective combat, you'd fair particularly well or have a good understanding or appreciation of their combat systems?
On a side note, the combat director of God of War states that Nioh is his game of the generation lol.
I totally want to say God of War because of the ridiculous amounts of fighting styles, but I'm going to let myself get out of the honeymoon phase before I say it.
Honorable mention: Metal Gear Survive. It has MGSV's perfect TPS controls and gunplay + a physics based melee system and the enemies are fun to fight, because you can shoot off/ slash off limbs and so on. Gun feedback is also fantastic.
..why are you even comparing something like GOW or Souls to DMC or NG. It's like comparing the driving model of Dirt to Wipeout. Nonsense.
Best combat of all time; DMC3/4, Ninja Gaiden, Nioh and Bayonetta.
Best combat of this gen; Horizon, Bloodborne, Nioh...maybe God of War but for me, something about the enemy hit reactions seems off.
Best combat of this gen; Horizon, Bloodborne, Nioh...maybe God of War but for me, something about the enemy hit reactions seems off.
Because the thread is "best combat of all time" and they're both character action games? This thread is inherently comparing them...
The more I play of GOW, the more I love the combat. The combat is so deep I often forget whole strategies even exist. Bloodborne was my previous favorite this gen but I think GOW outclasses by quite a bit
Yes. Not Bloodborne because I don't rate it, but for sure.
NGB especially.
God of War does not take 30 hours to have good combat, no one is saying that. The combat is amazing from the very first encounter and then continues to get more and more amazing with all the things you unlock and all the new gear you equip.