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Best Combat system this gen, best Combat system of all time
- Thread starter RennerSage
- Start date
Most underrated sleeper contender goes to Exanima for the very unique physics based isometric melee combat. Because of the unconventional control scheme that takes a lot of practice to master, I don't see it ever breaking into popularity sadly. Once you get good at the game and are in proper control of your character however, combat is very satisfying while staying challenging.
Damn, that looks amazing.
That's an isometric game????
Are those real time hits and swings or are they predetermined animations?
It's an isometric game yes, though you can rotate the camera 360 degrees, pan it up and down a good 75 degrees and zoom in extensively. That gif is in slow-motion by the way, as the game is real time and can progress quite quickly.
The game doesn't use predetermined animations and is instead primarily controlled by Physics (there's a few limitations in some cases to avoid tangling and the like). As a result of this though the player has a lot of control for how balanced the character is and how smooth the animations flow. The combat can look very messy, and even silly in the hands of an inexperienced player. It also means it can make for very cool moments though.
It's an isometric game yes, though you can rotate the camera 360 degrees, pan it up and down a good 75 degrees and zoom in extensively. That gif is in slow-motion by the way, as the game is real time and can progress quite quickly.
The game doesn't use predetermined animations and is instead primarily controlled by Physics (there's a few limitations in some cases to avoid tangling and the like). As a result of this though the player has a lot of control for how balanced the character is and how smooth the animations flow. The combat can look very messy, and even silly in the hands of an inexperienced player. It also means it can make for very cool moments though.
I had seen this game on ERA before and totally forgot about it. Looks fucking cool to say the least. I assume the learning curve has to be quite steep...not a problem but wondering.
Some people disliked it but i loved the combat in the witcher 3, so many options and tools, it was very elegant and fluid once you mastered it fully.
As for the all time greatest the correct answer is ninja gaiden black.
As for the all time greatest the correct answer is ninja gaiden black.
Yeah...right the fuck now if you like it top tier.
PS: Be prepared for a bit of a learning curve to start looking like a real badass and also make sure to integrate camera adjustment into your movement essentially. The camera was always shit. I just constantly hit the R trigger to place it behind me.
Exanima is certainly interesting, I haven't played it in awhile. It's a bit of a mixed bag because it's very hard for your character to not look like a drunk marionette. The one thing it captures from real swordfighting that is so god damn satisfying is both the difficulty of landing a clean shot at someones head and then the hit feedback from doing so. You have to do work in spacing and misdirection to land it and if you step into the swing it will do more damage too. When it lands you'll see blood spatter, then their body rag doll as its just been made a corpse.
I really wanted to say MH World for best, but I think monster fight design is worse in world than Gen 3/4. Monster fight design has always been what sets monster hunter apart. Sure the weapon movesets are fairly diverse, but if you compare any 1 weapon to something like a weapon in Nioh or a character action game like Bayo or DMC then you can see that your options are much more limited. This leaves the monster fight to carry the weight. You can tell how each monster fight was carefully crafted to have the perfect openings for each weapon to punish the monster's attacks. Watching a GS or hammer user completely dominate a monster by perfectly predicting the monster's movements. Influencing monster behavior by standing in a certain spot after a certain move in order to set up a punish 10 seconds in the future. This to me is what made monster hunter special.
Something changed in MH World. Monsters no longer have these predictable patterns and (more importantly) many of the ways players could influence monster patterns are gone. The number instances where you can bait a monster into a certain pattern are extremely small compared to previous games. Monster design seems to have been done with little thought put into how the weapons would play against them. I'll use deviljho as an example in world. In previous games using charge blade, there were a number of attacks you could exploit using a guard point > AED. Stomps, breaths, hip checks, etc. The recovery time of the monster after these moves left just enough time to get this attack off on a weak spot. Now in world, all of these openings are too short to do this move. So what options does the player have to punish attacks, well they just do the attack anyway and pray that deviljho just lingers in the spot just long enough to land the attack. It's no longer knowing exactly what you can do in after x attack to do maximum damage while remaining safe and ready for the next attack. Now it's OK just throw out the attack and pray it hits because the truly safe openings for this attack are so few that if you wait for them you will just be wasting time. It's now better and faster to just throw out the attack and get lucky. Sometimes you will miss and eat shit for it, but if you compare your clear times with an optimized run but using the safe approach, you will be much faster just throwing out your super moves and hope they hit. This was almost never the case in previous games. It's like the devs forgot to design the monster FOR the weapons. I won't get into the god awful maps here, but again it seems like a similar case where they forgot to design the maps FOR the weapons.
This is speculation on my part, but I think this is the reason that Greatsword plays nothing like it did in previous titles. This weapon more than any other relied on prediction and influencing monster patterns. When they took that away, they took away the weapon's core and it needed a redesign.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but this felt like a decent enough place to post my thoughts on MHWorld's combat.
So while the movesets for weapons are more fluid and interesting on average, I think that the game has lost an important part of what I think of when I think of monster hunter's combat.
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This topic has been on my mind all week ever since I saw it pop up on Era.
Thought long and hard, my answer.....
Zone of the Enders 2 (for all time)
I've never felt such fluidity and power ever since. The speed, the precision , the pressure sensitive buttons. The unique control scheme. The full 3d flight , the lock on lasers, the mixed in melee, dodging and blocking into counters. Plus that zero shift is God like. I've seriously never played any other game that I felt in complete control at this level of combat. It's so special.
Also, just throwing in my vote for Monster Hunter World for this gen.
Thought long and hard, my answer.....
Zone of the Enders 2 (for all time)
I've never felt such fluidity and power ever since. The speed, the precision , the pressure sensitive buttons. The unique control scheme. The full 3d flight , the lock on lasers, the mixed in melee, dodging and blocking into counters. Plus that zero shift is God like. I've seriously never played any other game that I felt in complete control at this level of combat. It's so special.
Also, just throwing in my vote for Monster Hunter World for this gen.
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This gen? Either Ni-Oh or Bloodborne
All time? The Tales series consistently have the best battle systems - with the exception of Legendia - with every new installment, so those.
All time? The Tales series consistently have the best battle systems - with the exception of Legendia - with every new installment, so those.
As much as I love Horizon:ZD (it was my GOTY last year), I can't say it had the best overall combat system. Best Bow combat? Yes, GOD yes. But the melee combat left a lot to be desired, and outside of a few fun canned animations, was a drag on the overall combat. It's something I hope they really look at and refine for the inevitable sequel. Traps were also a bit weak compared to the utility of on-the-move weapons like the tripcaster and bowcaster. It's SOOOO close to a GOAT combat system, it just needs some more iteration to get there.
For this gen, God of War (2018) , Bloodborne and Monster Hunter would be my picks. All-time? That's a really hard one, there have been so many good ones over the years.
For this gen, God of War (2018) , Bloodborne and Monster Hunter would be my picks. All-time? That's a really hard one, there have been so many good ones over the years.
After messing around with some of the more difficult optional encounters, it really exposes some of the limitations of that combat system. It really doesn't handle faster moving aerial enemies that well, or encounters with bigger mobs. The threat indicator isn't a good enough compromise to stand in for the tighter camera.
Also someone else mentioned this, but the lack of a stinger-type distance closing move becomes apparent too.
Oh man you guys I'm so dumb I was thinking Nier
My favorites are MGS V and FF X despite the aeon meat shield focus on end game.
I think I'll put God of War among them, but I need some time to let it sink.
I think I'll put God of War among them, but I need some time to let it sink.
God of War's combat is pretty good.
I was a fan of the old gow combat too.
DMC combat was something else when I first played it. I mean I've never played it since because I know it won't feel fluid and shit but my god, when I first played that I just felt like a fucking champion. Too fucking cool
Maybe I'm missing something about the new GOW because people say the combat is deep and the styles and such but right now I've just done alfheim and whilst the combat is good I'm not like bowled over, am I missing something?
I was a fan of the old gow combat too.
DMC combat was something else when I first played it. I mean I've never played it since because I know it won't feel fluid and shit but my god, when I first played that I just felt like a fucking champion. Too fucking cool
Maybe I'm missing something about the new GOW because people say the combat is deep and the styles and such but right now I've just done alfheim and whilst the combat is good I'm not like bowled over, am I missing something?
English is not my first language but you resume pretty much what I was thinking.
Not at all, you are right, people just get hyped for no reason, maybe they just want the game to succeed that they can't see the flaws in the system
Nioh v Bloodborne v Dragons Dogma. Very hard to tell which is better between the 3 because they are all fantastic.DD really nails the "fantasy team" aspect which many have tried and failed at. Nioh having the fighting game style movesets allows for a lot more skillful display. Bloodborne has a great variety of unique weapons which when mixed with the fast paced play make it extremely exciting.
Going to go with ninja Gaiden black.
Dmc4 was also great
Could never really become good at Vanquish. The game is a bit of a Sonic the Hedgehog in my hands, flows fast and smooth for three seconds, then I faceplant into some wall and the flown is broken.
Also, Max Payne 3
Dmc4 was also great
Could never really become good at Vanquish. The game is a bit of a Sonic the Hedgehog in my hands, flows fast and smooth for three seconds, then I faceplant into some wall and the flown is broken.
Also, Max Payne 3
Man, this thread. Next thing I see is probably going to be Batman has better combat than DMC and NG combined.
This generation:
All time:
Both are so freaking satisfying!!
I don't think this makes sense.
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My personal favorite combat systems of all time are probably Lightning returns, FFX-2, Baten Kaitos & Xenoblade 2's
I'm sorry? What does your comment have to do in relation to mine?
Because they are both from the same generation?
Well, one I consider to be the best of all time, and one to be in this generation.
It just happened that they were both released in this generation.
This gen is Monster Hunter World I suppose.
All time is indefinitely Bayonetta. I argue that anyone who says otherwise hasn't seen the ridiculous depth and sheer insanity pushed by the combat in the game. Something like the recent God of War doesn't even touch DmC let alone Bayonetta.
All time is indefinitely Bayonetta. I argue that anyone who says otherwise hasn't seen the ridiculous depth and sheer insanity pushed by the combat in the game. Something like the recent God of War doesn't even touch DmC let alone Bayonetta.
I could never pick a combat system where you don't even block as a core function of the game. The attack ferocity is so much more intense from enemies in Ninja Gaiden because you can block, and often if you ever let go of it at the wrong time for a second or two, you are getting hit.
If one was better than the other for that generation, wouldn't that make it not possible for the other to be better as a whole. Bah, this is a stupid conversation.
Yes, I agree Bloodborne is the best ever. I hit enemy and get health back and it makes me happy.