Bethesda banning Fallout 76 cheaters, modders caught in crossfire, appeal system in place

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,515
Eastern US
They don't care about cheating, they care about the mods. They're trying to sell people $15 power armor paint jobs. If you can just mod your power armor to look however you want, nobody is going to buy their overpriced crap.
Mods cannot make other people see your changes. Also, banning for ultra wide fix or reshape is crazy talk considering this is essentially Fallout 4 engine...with all the associated bugs. For example, My mod list for Fallout 4 is about 150 items to make that game tolerable.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,045
Fallout 76 has become CS:GO apparently with all this worrying about cheating.
I could've sworn there is next to no competitive interest in this game but ok maybe there's been a big PvP scene building I've never heard of
You don’t need Pvp for cheating to ruin the game for others. Does the game have an economy, cheaters can ruin it. Are there one-of-a-kind drops or timed enemies that only one show up at a time, cheaters can keep others from getting them. Are there things that can affect the world at large for everybody (nukes), of course that can make the game worse for others to get access to early.

These are the things publishers care about, and one of the reasons they ban people who are running third party tools that affect the game while playing it.
 

NaturalHigh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
I am using two mods. Better Inventory which helps me keep track of my inventory weight. And the one that makes recipes/plans glow.

I dont see them banning for mods like that but I'm thinking of deactivating them. I'm still having fun in the game and would hate to be stuck writing a paper about it.
 

GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
*Makes games whose biggest selling point is an easily customizable and exploitable sandbox for two decades. Is surprised when players want to customize and exploit in their new game.*
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,139
What kind of power tripping goofballs ask people to write essays as punishment outside of a school setting?

Do they also rap employees' knuckles with a ruler when they misbehave?
 

mas8705

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,127
*Writes Essay*

I am deeply sorry that I turned The Macho Man Randy Savage into a fire breathing dragon... I thought it would be hilarious for him to say, "Oh Yeah!" every time he breathed fire, but I can now see that I was deeply mistaken... I also know that it was not right to turn Thomas the Tank Engine into a dragon too... /s

Seriously... The Fallout of Fallout 76 is ongoing and I'm actually starting to think that we will get to the game's one year release and we will still find ourselves falling down the rabbit hole that is this game.
 

GoaThief

Member
Oct 25, 2017
274
Haha, that's brilliant. Wonder how many cheaters have written to them? Hope Bethesda make public any essays after being redacted.

Its well known shader injection techniques and the like shouldn't be used in multiplayer games, so very little sympathy if people are crying foul over it (cynic/realist in me also says cheaters would say they were only doing that also). Brightening dark areas or highlighting objects/enemies is definitely cheating as it gives you an unfair advantage, I'm sure there are plenty more similar instances and that's before all the wallhacks/transparency, aimbots, counters, etc.
 

GibdoInferno

Member
May 24, 2018
812
You don’t need Pvp for cheating to ruin the game for others. Does the game have an economy, cheaters can ruin it. Are there one-of-a-kind drops or timed enemies that only one show up at a time, cheaters can keep others from getting them. Are there things that can affect the world at large for everybody (nukes), of course that can make the game worse for others to get access to early.
None of that seems meaningful in the context of Fallout 76, a game where you're dropped onto a server with a random set of players who might be level 10 or level 100. Like, you mention getting access to nukes "early" but "early" means nothing here. Is it somehow more game-ruining if you're early on and cheaters drop a nuke, than if you're early on and players who've played longer drop a nuke legitimately? Is it worse for the functionally non-existent player economy for a cheater to drop high-level items on new players than if it's someone who's played enough that they've got high-level items falling out of their pockets? If someone one-shots an event boss because they cheated themselves the best sniper rifle, is that worse for the other players on the server than if the cheater had earned that rifle legitimately? In other words: if it ruins the game to be in a space with more-powerful players, Fallout 76 is ruined to begin with.
 

Anti

Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,176
Australia
Mods are the only thing that make Bethesda games bearable, modders do a better job than Bethesda dev, this is so stupid from them...
 

bonkasaurus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,663
*Writes Essay*

I am deeply sorry that I turned The Macho Man Randy Savage into a fire breathing dragon... I thought it would be hilarious for him to say, "Oh Yeah!" every time he breathed fire, but I can now see that I was deeply mistaken... I also know that it was not right to turn Thomas the Tank Engine into a dragon too... /s

Seriously... The Fallout of Fallout 76 is ongoing and I'm actually starting to think that we will get to the game's one year release and we will still find ourselves falling down the rabbit hole that is this game.
I hope so. The shit surrounding the game is more entertaining than the game itself.
 

Gstaff

Community Lead, Bethesda
Verified
Feb 16, 2018
14
DC
Catching up on all this.

We flag the use of 3rd party applications within Fallout 76 because we do not want players exploiting the game in ways that provide a competitive advantage or negatively impact the servers & gameplay experience of other players. If someone receives a ban for Modded content, for now they should reach out to us through help.bethesda.net and we will review the appeal. We don’t need an essay for this.

As previously noted, we will be looking to add Mod support at some point. When we have new details, we will let everyone know.
 

Eriol

Member
Oct 27, 2017
419
Santiago, Chile
Can this be on the OP, also changing the name of the topic because is quite disingenuous and has lead to a lot of drive by posts.

Catching up on all this.

We flag the use of 3rd party applications within Fallout 76 because we do not want players exploiting the game in ways that provide a competitive advantage or negatively impact the servers & gameplay experience of other players. If someone receives a ban for Modded content, for now they should reach out to us through help.bethesda.net and we will review the appeal. We don’t need an essay for this.

As previously noted, we will be looking to add Mod support at some point. When we have new details, we will let everyone know.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Indonesia
Mods are the only thing that make Bethesda games bearable, modders do a better job than Bethesda dev, this is so stupid from them...
Nah, this is not that kind of mod we're talking about. We're talking about 3rd party app for cheating. You don't need one to for fix/patch mods.

Can this be on the OP, also changing the name of the topic because is quite disingenuous and has lead to a lot of drive by posts.
I've reported the thread and no mod seems bothered enough to fix the title. /shrug
 

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,286
Madrid
Truly the gift that keeps on giving. Sorry Fallout 76 buyers, I feel truly bad for you, but this is among the most hilarious clown shows the industry has ever gaced us with, and that's even though the bar is fucking high.
 

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,286
Madrid
Catching up on all this.

We flag the use of 3rd party applications within Fallout 76 because we do not want players exploiting the game in ways that provide a competitive advantage or negatively impact the servers & gameplay experience of other players. If someone receives a ban for Modded content, for now they should reach out to us through help.bethesda.net and we will review the appeal. We don’t need an essay for this.

As previously noted, we will be looking to add Mod support at some point. When we have new details, we will let everyone know.
So, the guy in the video was lying about the support email requesting a literal essay?

Can this be on the OP, also changing the name of the topic because is quite disingenuous and has lead to a lot of drive by posts.
Nah, this is not that kind of mod we're talking about. We're talking about 3rd party app for cheating. You don't need one to for fix/patch mods.
I've reported the thread and no mod seems bothered enough to fix the title. /shrug
Thank you for showing why the title needs changed.
Personally until the conflicting reports are sorted out, I'm going to assume a stance of cautious general skepticism. You're free to believe Bethesda and the OP is free to believe the original report.
 

daxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,884
Saying you were only running reshade or something else harmless is the "my dog ate my homework" equivalent of cheating.
 

Gstaff

Community Lead, Bethesda
Verified
Feb 16, 2018
14
DC
So, the guy in the video was lying about the support email requesting a literal essay?
No, I'd take him at his word. The essay request happened.

We've had some conversations about this today. Once we're out of the holiday season, we will talk about it more. In the meantime, if you receive a ban or suspension for 3rd party mods, please reach out to us through help.bethesda.net and we will review the appeal. Definitely no essay going forward.
 
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Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,286
Madrid
Saying you were only running reshade or something else harmless is the "my dog ate my homework" equivalent of cheating.
... what?

But what's the original report? You've read the article, right?
Yes, I read the article, and watched the video. Someone was allegedly banned for using allegedly harmless mods, then were allegedly asked to provide a contrite essay to get their accounts unbanned. We have someone from Bethesda here confirming blanket mod-caused bans are true (and the onus is on the players to prove they weren't cheating), and the essay request was most likely true. Is there anything specific you want to contest or contribute, or are you going to keep alluding, gesturing and dancing around whatever nebulous misinformation you're implying?
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,515
Eastern US
Nah, this is not that kind of mod we're talking about. We're talking about 3rd party app for cheating. You don't need one to for fix/patch mods.
I've reported the thread and no mod seems bothered enough to fix the title. /shrug
You saw the response by Bethesda in this very thread? Any mod will get you banned including reshade and widescreen patches. This is so dumb that it’s not even funny at this point.

This game can’t even support 21x9 properly and they will ban users trying to fix that.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Indonesia
Yes, I read the article, and watched the video. Someone was allegedly banned for using allegedly harmless mods, then were allegedly asked to provide a contrite essay to get their accounts unbanned. We have someone from Bethesda here confirming blanket mod-caused bans are true (and the onus is on the players to prove they weren't cheating), and the essay request was most likely true. Is there anything specific you want to contest or contribute, or are you going to keep alluding, gesturing and dancing around whatever nebulous misinformation you're implying?
You saw the response by Bethesda in this very thread? Any mod will get you banned including reshade and widescreen patches. This is so dumb that it’s not even funny at this point.

This game can’t even support 21x9 properly and they will ban users trying to fix that.
I've covered this a while back. Please refer to the last paragraph, especially the last 2 sentences.

What's the difference between general PC game modding, Bethesda modding, and cheating?

General PC modding
This is modding that can be done in basically every PC game ever. Most of the time, you'll need a 3rd party program to set it up or running in the background in some other cases, modifying the game's executable file. There's very limited use of this kind of modding, people mostly mod their games this way, whether to improve the visuals with Reshade/ENB, autohotkey, Widescreen fix, or cheat with Cheat Engine, trainer, or some other programs. Some games running in certain engines also enable you to 'mod' the game by modifying the files (usually called .ini tweaks). This is NOT what people mean by modding when talking about Bethesda games.

Bethesda modding
Now, this is the real deal. When people say 'modding Bethesda games', they're referring to this. This is generally exclusive to Bethesda games because of their unique engine and modding tools from Bethesda (Creation Kit) and other tools created by the community. Most of the time, this kind of modding doesn't require you to inject something (except script extenders). All you need is to download the mod files and put them in your game's folder, and that's it. The more convenient way is to install them using Mod Manager. Most mods fall into this category, including the most popular ones such as Unofficial Patch, adding/modifying textures (character, weapon, armor, environment), special effects, animation, and more.

So basically, modding is indeed cheating because it can give you various advantages depending on the mods you choose to install. However, past Bethesda games are offline, so there's no problem there. In this Fallout 76 case, the email regarding the ban specifically says "The account was detected to be running a third-party application" which means that the user is being accused of using the first kind of modding. In online games like this, there's usually an anti cheating system which automatically detects any 3rd party program running in the background. In most cases, the anti cheat system would detect any 3rd party program as a cheating tool, so yes, including reshade and autohotkey.
 

HeavenlyOne

The Fallen
Nov 30, 2017
907
Your heart
You saw the response by Bethesda in this very thread? Any mod will get you banned including reshade and widescreen patches. This is so dumb that it’s not even funny at this point.

This game can’t even support 21x9 properly and they will ban users trying to fix that.
This is 100% false.

In the video that started this all, 2 of the 3 people banned said they had cheat engine running in the background. The last guy didn't but is unable to tell what exactly is the problem. He was running reshade which qualifies as a third party program, but other users are using reshade without being banned. He also said he was using the lockpick mod thinking it might be the reason, but it's the same as with reshade in that others are using it without being banned. The video creator even says a sample size of three doesn't really tell you much, and there is always the possibility that those banned are lying, which is pretty typical.

The guy in the reddit thread claiming to be banned while using only the widescreen fix later admitted he was lying:

 

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,286
Madrid
I've covered this a while back. Please refer to the last paragraph, especially the last 2 sentences.
Yet again, you aren't contesting a single thing from the OP. You can argue that the bans were fair, because legitimate mods (e.g. model swaps, which you yourself say are done via Bethesda mods) are indistinguisible from cheats, but that still doesn't invalidate anything in the OP, especially not the "send us an essay apologizing" bit, which is the specific part that I (and most others) found hilarious.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Indonesia
I've played enough MMOs since early 2000s to say that most "I'm not guilty of cheating!!" claims were mostly lies.

Yet again, you aren't contesting a single thing from the OP. You can argue that the bans were fair, because legitimate mods (e.g. model swaps, which you yourself say are done via Bethesda mods) are indistinguisible from cheats, but that still doesn't invalidate anything in the OP, especially not the "send us an essay apologizing" bit, which is the specific part that I (and most others) found hilarious.
Oh, sure. I wouldn't argue on that part. While Bethesda is not the only publishers that have asked cheaters to post an apology like that, that's still hilarious.

Also, the OP is not wrong, and it has been updated numerous times. My issue was the thread title (and original OP) which led people to drive-by shitpost here. It's all good now.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,515
Eastern US
This is 100% false.

In the video that started this all, 2 of the 3 people banned said they had cheat engine running in the background. The last guy didn't but is unable to tell what exactly is the problem. He was running reshade which qualifies as a third party program, but other users are using reshade without being banned. He also said he was using the lockpick mod thinking it might be the reason, but it's the same as with reshade in that others are using it without being banned. The video creator even says a sample size of three doesn't really tell you much, and there is always the possibility that those banned are lying, which is pretty typical.

The guy in the reddit thread claiming to be banned while using only the widescreen fix later admitted he was lying:

Again, reshade or ultrawidescreen would be covered under 3rd party games. And also, for Bethesda games there are a ton of other items that would qualify like script extender, anti-crash, and many more.
 

dtflip

Member
Oct 29, 2017
585
Seattle,WA
It makes sense to not allow mods for persistent online games, thats why Bethesda shouldn't have made a persistent online game.
 

HeavenlyOne

The Fallen
Nov 30, 2017
907
Your heart
Again, reshade or ultrawidescreen would be covered under 3rd party games.
Reshade is indeed a third party application and Bethesda wouldn't be the only dev to not allow its use in an online game being that it can be used to cheat. So far though, there has been no proof that any of the bans have anything to do with Reshade.

The Imperfect 21:9 mod is not a third party application. It uses the games own files the same way any standard mod does, it doesn't have a seperate dll or exe file. No one has been banned for using this mod. I'm using it right now.





And also, for Bethesda games there are a ton of other items that would qualify like script extender, anti-crash, and many more.
Yes, there are a number of third party applications and injectors that are used in their single player games. That's irrelevant though as no such programs exist for Fallout 76, and the creators of those programs aren't going to port them over to an online game.

Like I said, your claim that "any mod will get you banned" is 100% false.
 

samred

Editor @ Ars Technica
Verified
Nov 4, 2017
900
Seattle, WA
I'm willing to roll some dice for the sake of an article, so I downloaded and set up Reshade, then played roughly an hour of F76 last night. No ban handed out. I'm happy to test other "interface/gfx" mods to see what else might trigger Bethesda's wrath, if anyone has requests.
 

StrapOnFetus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
898
TX
When you mod a online game I take issues with it because it can lead to nasty things like having a competitive advantage. Now I have not purchased nor played Fallout 76 nor do I intend to. But I think ERA may be over reacting a small bit. The game auto flags mods, just like CSGO auto flags hacks. No single person can police a entire online game.

HOWEVER. Having to write a essay in my opinion is just plain silly and shouldn't of happened. Seems like Bethesda themselves responded so no more essays is a good thing.

I have no issues with modding a single player game. But when everyone wants to mod online I think it can lead to a slippery slope.
 

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
7,422
I find this hard to believe when it comes reported by a YouTube channel and it’s sources are a brand new Reddit account, a 5 year old account that has made about 4 posts during that time.

Has anybody outside this channel corroborated these claims?
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,605
Finland
When you mod a online game I take issues with it because it can lead to nasty things like having a competitive advantage. Now I have not purchased nor played Fallout 76 nor do I intend to. But I think ERA may be over reacting a small bit. The game auto flags mods, just like CSGO auto flags hacks. No single person can police a entire online game.

HOWEVER. Having to write a essay in my opinion is just plain silly and shouldn't of happened. Seems like Bethesda themselves responded so no more essays is a good thing.

I have no issues with modding a single player game. But when everyone wants to mod online I think it can lead to a slippery slope.
Yeah definitely, on the bolded part. World of Warcraft could work as an example, it allows and supports addons but there's a line to cross. Botting is obviously banned and while countless of addons that make playing the game and especially raiding easier are allowed, not all are. Like in example raiding addon called AVR. From Blizzard: "it removes too much player reaction and decision-making while facing dungeon and raid encounters. While some other mods also work to this end, we find that AVR and the act of visualizing strategy within the game world simply goes beyond what we’re willing to allow". "The invasive nature of a mod altering and/or interacting with the game world (virtually or directly) is not intended and not something we will allow. World of Warcraft UI addons are never intended to interact with the game world itself. " Basically one of it's features was to draw areas on the ground where it would be safe to stand. In example if you had to keep atleast certain range from other players because of a debuff, it visualized the reach for it. Other players also knew not to step on that area, without actually having to keep track of the player who was debuffed and should be avoided.
 

Latpri

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
761
Wow, Ive been sour on Bethesda for a lot longer than most people but this really takes the cake. I cannot BELIEVE this condecending bullshit, this is even worse then Twitter making you post an apology tweet before you can get your account back, at least you didnt pay money to post on twitter.

Just ban people if they did something ban worthy and warn them if it wasnt banworthy. Making someone write an essay about what a bad boy they are is some of the most seeing red enraging things they could have done. I seriously hope every single person offered the option of writing an essay just sent back a 3 page form letter filled with nothing but expletives.

My dad and I got into a fight about Kavanaugh, way back whenever that was in the news. He was doing his usual thing of twisting arguments around and I didnt feel like letting him score the points so I just checked out of the convo completely saying things like "I dont care, screw him" and not really engaging. He got mad enough to hang up on me and said he wouldnt speak to me for 6 months unless I wrote him an essay about why Kavanaugh was qualified to sit on the supreme court. I didnt write shit and we ended up talking again 3 weeks later anyway. I bet these letters are about as important to Bethsoft as the one I refused to write was to my father.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,515
Eastern US
Reshade is indeed a third party application and Bethesda wouldn't be the only dev to not allow its use in an online game being that it can be used to cheat. So far though, there has been no proof that any of the bans have anything to do with Reshade.

The Imperfect 21:9 mod is not a third party application. It uses the games own files the same way any standard mod does, it doesn't have a seperate dll or exe file. No one has been banned for using this mod. I'm using it right now.





Like I said, your claim that "any mod will get you banned" is 100% false.
In this case I am glad to be wrong then. There are enough issues with the game without banning people for innocuous stuff