Beto O’Rourke Enters the 2020 Presidential Campaign

SnakeXs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
547
Quick reminder that "liberalism" in the United States is centrism in every other developed nation.

Bernie & co. are left of center.
Most Dems are slightly right of center, with Pelosi, Hillary, and most establishment Dems being further right.

The only reason our overton window is so fucked is because a) Republicans exist and b) our nation is one built on supporting the status quo.

Oh, and before somebody complains about Pelosi being called a centrist again...
I love you and your words.
 

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
Quick reminder that "liberalism" in the United States is centrism in every other developed nation.

Bernie & co. are left of center.
Most Dems are slightly right of center, with Pelosi, Hillary, and most establishment Dems being further right.

The only reason our overton window is so fucked is because a) Republicans exist and b) our nation is one built on supporting the status quo.

Oh, and before somebody complains about Pelosi being called a centrist again...
Yup, precisely.
People, I'm sorry if your definition of progressive isn't actually that progressive relatively speaking.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
The non-stop "PeLoSi IsN't A cEnTrIsT" clapback when she votes moderately at best and opposes extremely popular socdem policies made me write that up, and while it isn't too relevant in the locality of the US and was more of a kneejerk, I just find it funny that she's so quick to be defended as a leftist when even in America that's hardly true.
Hmmm. We could acknowledge this OR....we can just pretend this never happened. I know my pick.
Eyuuuuup.
 

Schlep

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,071
Did you read the article? Can you really refute... well... any of it? Beto was a great Senate candidate for Texas. He has no real solutions or plans as of yet, and seems to actively be staying away from the more popular policies that the Democrats are suggesting. His verbiage is reminiscent of Obama, but not in a good way because it evokes... nothing. He can't really answer the question of why he's running and why he thinks he's "the guy" that we need to get the country on track. This is going to be the most important elections in American history, and he really thinks that what we need is another "both sides" and "compromise" kind of guy? FOH with that noise.
I mean, I just watched a town hall where he said we need to do something as soon as possible about climate change, because we're already kinda partially screwed. We need to provide guaranteed healthcare to everyone. We need to provide mental care to everyone, especially drug addicts and decriminalize marijuana. We need to pay educators and proxy workers (administrators, janitors, food services, etc) a living wage and get the minimum wage to $15 by the end of the first term of the new President. Women have the right to choose, period. We need to be strong on trade and make sure we're not getting a bad deal, but at the same time we need to work with our allies instead of going it alone and hurting our farmers, ranchers, etc.

Calling it a campaign for vapid morons is not helping Bernie. "Vapid morons" will continue to move to Beto if that's the road his fans want to go down.
 

Icemonk191

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,395
I don't know how you can see what happened with Ilhan Omar and think to yourself "Yeah, Nancy Pelosi is totally progressive!".
 

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
No, my line of thinking is actually to hone your candidates to fit your district. I just happen to think that Beto has the bet chances of beating Trump in the current climate. You beat Trump at his own game of sucking the media oxygen out of the room. You don't put up a policy wonk against him as that gives him the best chances of winning a second term.
You can also beat Trump at the game of Populism, which really seems to be trending around the world for better or worse.

Lotsa people resonate with "the system sucks" kind of messaging.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,145
I don't know how you can see what happened with Ilhan Omar and think to yourself "Yeah, Nancy Pelosi is totally progressive!".
You can accept that no one is perfect? Pelosi can be progressive in many ways while being terribly shitty in other ways but overall can still be considered progressive.
 

Apharmd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,783
Quick reminder that "liberalism" in the United States is centrism in every other developed nation.

Bernie & co. are left of center.
Most Dems are slightly right of center, with Pelosi, Hillary, and most establishment Dems being further right.

The only reason our overton window is so fucked is because a) Republicans exist and b) our nation is one built on supporting the status quo.

Oh, and before somebody complains about Pelosi being called a centrist again...
Thank you for this. It needed to be pointed out.
 

Dartastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,325
Calling it a campaign for vapid morons is not helping Bernie. "Vapid morons" will continue to move to Beto if that's the road his fans want to go down.
See, this is a bit irritating because nowhere in my comments did I mention who I support, if anyone. I merely mentioned that I agree with the article for the reasons stated inside. The author supports Sanders (and Warren, but you fail to mention that) and you automatically assumed that I'm calling it a "campaign for vapid morons" because I'm trying to help Bernie. Maybe calling it a "campaign for vapid morons" is a bit too far, Beto absolutely is a candidate for people who don't pay nearly enough attention to the issues we are facing as a nation. Perhaps "willfully ignorant" is better? Maybe he's a candidate for people who don't give a fuck normally and are attracted by Obama speak 2.0. I don't know. In order for him to be a viable candidate in my mind, he's got to answer the question of why he's running. As far as can tell so far, the only reason he's running is because "he's gotta be in there." He doesn't have an answer to that question. Other candidates do.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,543
This is basically my entire Twitter timeline right now:


I fucking hate him so much

every movement he makes, every intonation of his voice, every gesture by every finger has been put through a thousand focus-groups before it ended up in his repertoire. he's an actor playing the role of an edgy politician ready to be pres. "I was born for this" was in the script

It's all a bit much.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,528
Quick reminder that "liberalism" in the United States is centrism in every other developed nation.

Bernie & co. are left of center.
Most Dems are slightly right of center, with Pelosi, Hillary, and most establishment Dems being further right.

The only reason our overton window is so fucked is because a) Republicans exist and b) our nation is one built on supporting the status quo.

Oh, and before somebody complains about Pelosi being called a centrist again...
It's almost like words such as "left" "right" or "center" are fairly useless as an absolute metric and are only decently useful for comparison within the specific political environment of the place and time, or comparing between two specific countries, time periods, etc...
...or something.
 

Schlep

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,071
Yeah, I was referring to the title and tenor of the article, not to you. But, this is my impression of Bernie stans...

Beto absolutely is a candidate for people who don't pay nearly enough attention to the issues we are facing as a nation.
Perhaps "willfully ignorant" is better?
Maybe he's a candidate for people who don't give a fuck normally and are attracted by Obama speak 2.0.
 

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
It's almost like words such as "left" "right" or "center" are fairly useless as an absolute metric and are only decently useful for comparison within the specific political environment of the place and time, or comparing between two specific countries, time periods, etc...
...or something.
It's almost like using the "it's almost like" tactic of messaging can be a BS way to deflect the issues and problems of the US...... or something
 

Dartastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,325
Yeah, I was referring to the title and tenor of the article, not to you. But, this is my impression of Bernie stans...
If you see the rampant corruption of the GOP, historic income inequality, the dangers of climate change, etc. and really look at the crowd of Democratic candidates at this time, I just don't see how you can look at Beto and go "yeah, he's the guy to tackle this." No fucking way. Definitely not right now. Who knows, maybe that'll change over time. But as of right now? Hell no.
 

Tracygill

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,268
Outside

Adam H. Johnson ✔
@adamjohnsonNYC

Norm Solomon has a good neoliberalism red flag which is rhetoric w/ victims but no victimizers. Bad things just happen, or are a lack of ‘smart’ policy rather than malice. Politicians who don’t have class bad guys are suspect, Beto has no bad guys. Sanders, Warren have bad guys.
 

Schlep

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,071
If you see the rampant corruption of the GOP, historic income inequality, the dangers of climate change, etc. and really look at the crowd of Democratic candidates at this time, I just don't see how you can look at Beto and go "yeah, he's the guy to tackle this." No fucking way. Definitely not right now. Who knows, maybe that'll change over time. But as of right now? Hell no.
Personally, I think he's the exact guy. He talks to income inequality, climate change, etc. He's likely to get out the vote more than any of the other candidates, which translates to more House and Senate seats. He also has a style that is almost the antithesis of Trump, and will be in the news almost as much, if not more if he's the nominee. He has Cornyn scared and he's not even running for TX Senate.

But this is what primaries are for. I really like Beto, but I also like Pete, Kamala, and Warren. There's a lot of time for things to change.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
8,234
On the NPR weekly roundup Mara Liasson said Beto is the "phenomenon cadidate" who has a "viral lifestyle" because he skateboards at midnight.
 

Lv99 Slacker

Member
Oct 27, 2017
168
This is basically my entire Twitter timeline right now:


I fucking hate him so much

every movement he makes, every intonation of his voice, every gesture by every finger has been put through a thousand focus-groups before it ended up in his repertoire. he's an actor playing the role of an edgy politician ready to be pres. "I was born for this" was in the script

It's all a bit much.
I follow a lot of rose Twitter accounts, and while most people aren't really feeling him, the commentary hasn't been THIS bad.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,617
I guess people do still like voting a conservative democrat solely for being charismatic and electable...... even though 2018 and 2019 shows that way way better candidates being elected is very very possible but well....... people act like it's still the 2000s.

Or maybe people that support Beto are actually closet Conservatives who vote democrat.
You know how it’s really disingenuous and wrong to pretend everyone on the left that has an issue with Democrats is actually a Russian bot? This shit is just as unhelpful
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,145
Nancy Pelosi is not your ally
Like I said...we can acknowledge that Pelosi can be disappointing in a few regards. The equation for being a progressive should not be one not being progressive in one aspect automatically kills your chances of being a progressive. Just because she isn't an ally in one situation/aspect doesn't mean that she can't be an ally in other situations/aspects.

We should strive for better but you must acknowledge that not everyone will agree with your viewpoint and hold stances different from you.
 

Hokahey

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,925
This is basically my entire Twitter timeline right now:


I fucking hate him so much

every movement he makes, every intonation of his voice, every gesture by every finger has been put through a thousand focus-groups before it ended up in his repertoire. he's an actor playing the role of an edgy politician ready to be pres. "I was born for this" was in the script

It's all a bit much.
I remember when I was edgy. Most people mature out of it.
 

UltraGunner

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,931
Los Angeles, CA
Like I said...we can acknowledge that Pelosi can be disappointing in a few regards. The equation for being a progressive should not be one not being progressive in one aspect automatically kills your chances of being a progressive. Just because she isn't an ally in one situation/aspect doesn't mean that she can't be an ally in other situations/aspects.

We should strive for better but you must acknowledge that not everyone will agree with your viewpoint and hold stances different from you.
I don't know how taking money from a fascist ethnostate makes you a progressive in any way
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
474

Adam H. Johnson ✔
@adamjohnsonNYC

Norm Solomon has a good neoliberalism red flag which is rhetoric w/ victims but no victimizers. Bad things just happen, or are a lack of ‘smart’ policy rather than malice. Politicians who don’t have class bad guys are suspect, Beto has no bad guys. Sanders, Warren have bad guys.
This is such a great point and something for people to always look out for. Neoliberals adore politics where there are not defined enemies - bad things just happen, just an unfortunate thing that falls from the sky that we need to remedy but never fundamentally alter the structural reasons why those things happen or identify who has an interest in continuing to have those things happen. Bernie and Warren are effective (and not to mention, more importantly, correct) about identifying enemies that need to be mobilized against because they correctly see politics as a struggle of irreconcilable conflicting interests. So far nothing I've seen of Beto indicates that he does. He just says he sees people hurting - but not the people who do the hurting, which should be a major red flag for anyone who thinks he would get anything substantive done.
 

OtherWorldly

Member
Dec 3, 2018
2,054
The fact that Beto has triggere all extreme leftist and alt right fringe elements tells me he is the leader America needs
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,617
I honestly feel like he has the best chance to win

Having really no record is actually a good thing and can’t be blamed for a lot of stuff.
 

OtherWorldly

Member
Dec 3, 2018
2,054
Told you..

The reactions are hilarious. Most liberals and left folks like Beto. Some dislike him legitimately for his policies. Then there are the fringe left who act like the alt right when it comes to reason. That’s what I was referring to
 

TheLucasLite

Member
Aug 27, 2018
946
Told you..

The reactions are hilarious. Most liberals and left folks like Beto. Some dislike him legitimately for his policies. Then there are the fringe left who act like the alt right when it comes to reason. That’s what I was referring to
What is "reason" is going to be contingent on whatever ideology you subscribe to. If you come out swinging at leftists, calling them the same as alt-right, you're going to have to actually offer up an explanation as to how, or you're going to be laughed at.
 

OtherWorldly

Member
Dec 3, 2018
2,054
What is "reason" is going to be contingent on whatever ideology you subscribe to. If you come out swinging at leftists, calling them the same as alt-right, you're going to have to actually offer up an explanation as to how, or you're going to be laughed at.
Are you referring to yourself as an extreme leftist ? I wasn’t
 

Armadilo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,356
Jesus Christ Beto sure brings out something out of people, seriously, this is some scary stuff in this thread
 

flexicon

Member
Nov 5, 2018
50
The only policy he seems to be firm on is immigration. Otherwise he seems easy to backstab, I wouldn’t be afraid if I was a Republican senator
 

Cymbal Head

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,484

Adam H. Johnson ✔
@adamjohnsonNYC

Norm Solomon has a good neoliberalism red flag which is rhetoric w/ victims but no victimizers. Bad things just happen, or are a lack of ‘smart’ policy rather than malice. Politicians who don’t have class bad guys are suspect, Beto has no bad guys. Sanders, Warren have bad guys.
This is pretty perfect. You don't beat Trump by being better at going on TV, you beat him by offering a credible alternative narrative that explains people's suffering and how to overcome it. You can't do that without identifying a tangible source for the problem. Bernie is still the strongest candidate in this respect, and Beto, from what I've seen, is quite weak.
 

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,107
I've gotta be honest, "I was born to be in it" still has me laughing. I don't think Beto realized how perfectly that sums him up. A white guy with few firm stances who has done nothing important, literally given a Mexican nickname by his father in part to help him win elections in Texas if he ever chose to become a politician.
 

Hexa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,804
Question, why was everyone explicitly denying they were going to run before running? That's strange to me. Like if you're not sure, then don't make any explicit statement one way or another, but a bunch of candidates this time around said very clearly they would not under any circumstance run in 2020. That's just bizarre to me.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,707
Jesus Christ Beto sure brings out something out of people, seriously, this is some scary stuff in this thread
What are you scared of?
Question, why was everyone explicitly denying they were going to run before running? That's strange to me. Like if you're not sure, then don't make any explicit statement one way or another, but a bunch of candidates this time around said very clearly they would not under any circumstance run in 2020. That's just bizarre to me.
Honing their ability to lie with a straight face to the American public about what they intend to do and then do a 180 a few months later.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,538
Question, why was everyone explicitly denying they were going to run before running? That's strange to me. Like if you're not sure, then don't make any explicit statement one way or another, but a bunch of candidates this time around said very clearly they would not under any circumstance run in 2020. That's just bizarre to me.
Unlike others, Beto really didn't have any intention of running until after November, he was only running for Senate (and had he won, given the prize of a Dem Texas Senate seat, would have been there for as long as he could hold it basically). Someone like Gillibrand "ruling it out" around then was laughable given she had obviously been preparing for years to run (and what a run it's been so far).
 

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,427
This is basically my entire Twitter timeline right now:


I fucking hate him so much

every movement he makes, every intonation of his voice, every gesture by every finger has been put through a thousand focus-groups before it ended up in his repertoire. he's an actor playing the role of an edgy politician ready to be pres. "I was born for this" was in the script

It's all a bit much.
So he's a "president actor", as opposed to a crisis actor? That's their schtick now?