Beto O’Rourke Enters the 2020 Presidential Campaign

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,707
That he’s just a politician but it feels as people hate him more than trump, so much anger, seriously
No leftist hates him more than trump, that's ridiculous, there's just something to criticizing someone who you can actually find common ground with. Trump, his fans, and the republican party are a lost cause. Why waste breath on them?

Why set up a strawman like "they're just like the alt right" or "they hate him more than Trump"? Just to deflect?

Or this:
So he's a "president actor", as opposed to a crisis actor? That's their schtick now?
People who don't like my candidate must be Parkland Shooting deniers
 

Tomohawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
739
I ain't feeling Beto but he's not that bad.On the other hand if your voting for him because you think he has the best chance of winning I don't think we can pre game the general this far out. At least hold him to a standard greater than milquetoast white guy.
 

chaostrophy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
309
You can also beat Trump at the game of Populism, which really seems to be trending around the world for better or worse.

Lotsa people resonate with "the system sucks" kind of messaging.
I agree because I'm a person and that kind of messaging resonates with me.

I find the idea of supporting a primary candidate based on electability instead of who resonates with you personally to be a little odd, and probably counter-productive. If a candidate resonates with you, and you support them because of that, and enough other people do the same for them to get the nomination, why would they be incapable of resonating and inspiring people to vote for them in the general? Given the recent history of the Democratic Party, the greater danger is too many of the primary voting base supporting candidates that are uninspiring but we think are "electable" then they end up not getting elected because they don't resonate with many people. Judging the mood of the nation and picking a candidate to appeal to it is not at all easy.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,707
That goes a bit beyond not liking the dude right? It's calling him fake basically, that's an accusation.
Saying a politician's personality doesn't seem genuine or you don't believe they are as liberal as others assume they are

vs.

Denying that a school shooting that killed 17 children didn't happen and the survivors are faking it


Yeah, this is a pretty insane comparison, huh? Kind of fucking gross, actually.
Literally called him an actor.
So is all the talk about leftists not understanding nuance just wild projection then? Actor = crisis actor? You know one of those is way more of a loaded phrase right?
 

Pagusas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,193
Frisco, Tx
I love this candidate. Not on the extreme left but still a dem, from my home Texas and has the cariama to bring in voters. Exactly what I want, as opposed to Bernie or Warren
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
The fact that Beto has triggere all extreme leftist and alt right fringe elements tells me he is the leader America needs
Not an era thread without some people endlessly equating the left with the right via horseshoe theory.
Don't forget to add that we're all socialists and therefore get along. *ignoring national socialism is vastly different from actual socialism/democratic socialism*
 

Whompa

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,838
Super Smash Democrat Bros 2020 is getting out of hand.

Beto seems like a good guy. Hope he does well.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
5,665
Quick reminder that "liberalism" in the United States is centrism in every other developed nation.

Bernie & co. are left of center.
Most Dems are slightly right of center, with Pelosi, Hillary, and most establishment Dems being further right.
Not as much as you think. Your mistake is assuming that because we are ok with compromise that it's the option we're all ok with, when it's more complicated than that. Don't confuse strategy with ideology. Many of us would love for more left leaning bills, but we realise that believing so does not make it an easier to get the bills pass congress.

Not in America, they're not. Leftists don't own every inch of the left political spectrum in the US, thus we're using US centric spectrum. Being slightly more conservative to you is not right wing.

Global comparisons are useful, but with this? It's useless because you're not talking about France or the UK.

The only reason our overton window is so fucked is because a) Republicans exist and b) our nation is one built on supporting the status quo.
You're missing a crucial factor in this equation - the system itself. Something which can't be gone around or obliterated, or the left would have done so decades ago. So we're stuck working within the system and adjusting it to our advantage. It's messy and horrible but without it we have nothing.

First off, it's the Intercept. Second, any congress leader worth their salt will be trying to get all the parties necessary on board within their coalition. Which, for now, involves, insurance companies.

This context ignores how Pelosi is more left than you're painting her.

She's for Single Payer and the Public Option, for example.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
5,665
I agree because I'm a person and that kind of messaging resonates with me.

I find the idea of supporting a primary candidate based on electability instead of who resonates with you personally to be a little odd, and probably counter-productive. If a candidate resonates with you, and you support them because of that, and enough other people do the same for them to get the nomination, why would they be incapable of resonating and inspiring people to vote for them in the general? Given the recent history of the Democratic Party, the greater danger is too many of the primary voting base supporting candidates that are uninspiring but we think are "electable" then they end up not getting elected because they don't resonate with many people. Judging the mood of the nation and picking a candidate to appeal to it is not at all easy.
Electabilty shouldn't be the only metric to judge a candidate, but it should be a metric. You can love a politician as much you like but if they don't have the ability to get elected your ideals stay dreams, while the other guy's becomes reality. Beto convinced a lot of people he could do this on the national scale against Cruz.
 

TheLucasLite

Member
Aug 27, 2018
946
You're missing a crucial factor in this equation - the system itself. Something which can't be gone around or obliterated, or the left would have done so decades ago. So we're stuck working within the system and adjusting it to our advantage. It's messy and horrible but without it we have nothing.
The right seems to have figured out how. How else do you explain stolen Supreme Court positions?
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,114
It's bonkers how much Beto is making some people nervous. I'm getting excited to see how the primary plays out :)
 

Jon Carter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,997
Seriously though, he needs to stop with his hands. But I want him to win. Sanders would have been great but he's just too damn old to be president until 2029.
 

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
Electabilty shouldn't be the only metric to judge a candidate, but it should be a metric. You can love a politician as much you like but if they don't have the ability to get elected your ideals stay dreams, while the other guy's becomes reality. Beto convinced a lot of people he could do this on the national scale against Cruz.
TBH, what's "Electability"?
 

weirder

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,692
🇨🇦 🌎 🌌
It's bonkers how much Beto is making some people nervous. I'm getting excited to see how the primary plays out :)
They see how strong Beto is. It's just like with Kamala when she first announced. They feel threatened and are throwing anything and everything in panic without consideration on how it might be perceived by those outside their group. It's funny that they don't understand their behavior is making friends and influencing people for Beto and that they're not creating any goodwill for candidates they may support.
 

TheLucasLite

Member
Aug 27, 2018
946
TBH, what's "Electability"?
A meaningless term that pundits use to describe candidates that line up more favorably with themselves, and help distract people away from candidates they might actual have more common ideological ground with. People literally just smash together w/e frankensteinian bits of their preferred candidate look best, and then claim them to be the most electable. It's a "metric" with no actual objective indictors, and skews heavily against minority candidates.

Trump himself was touted as unelectable all the way up until he won. It's best to ignore any claims of it.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
5,665
A meaningless term that pundits use to describe candidates that line up more favorably with themselves, and help distract people away from candidates they might actual have more common ideological ground with. People literally just smash together w/e frankensteinian bits of their preferred candidate look best,
Nope. It is based on real facts, and while it's not guaranteed (nothing is in soft sciences) it's not like it's impossible to tell who the the weakest candidates are. This is open to change, as well. A weaker candidate who started off obscure can alter their possibilities by having a winning campaign.

and then claim them to be the most electable. It's a "metric" with no actual objective indictors, and skews heavily against minority candidates.
This was, and sometimes still, continues to be a problem, but times have changed. Barack Obama won the presidency, and Kamala Harris has been among the top contenders this year.
 

Raster

Member
Feb 28, 2018
1,813
Don't concern yourself with "who stands the best chance to beat Trump" - chances are the person winning the Dem primary is electable enough to beat him anyway.
 

infinite

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,804
“Electability” is the most bullshit thing ever emerging from political discourse in American politics. It’s does nothing for voters except tell them that they should only care about their “team” winning rather than the values they have and policies they will implement once they do. Anyone who is still overly invested in “””electability””” of candidates after Donald fucking Trump won the presidency all the while the media labeled him “unelectable” since he started his campaign is a fool. Electability is nothing more than gatekeeping
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
5,665
The responses to Beto running seem pretty tame and muted compared to what people posted in the thread about Bernie running.
People have settled down, a few months back it was worse than the Bernie reaction. Bernie didn't have multiple threads attacking him via political operatives within weeks, going all out. He got, like, one - and that was when he announced.