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Beto O’Rourke Enters the 2020 Presidential Campaign

Oct 26, 2017
4,871
I'm not as optimistic as JohnOfMars but fetishization of polls is how we got blindsided in 2016.

I'm not throwing it out entirely but the poll is not some almighty predictor of the future, and indeed, polling numbers can be changed with committed action.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,555
poll numbers isn't an argument guys
Polling offers an insight, of uncertain accuracy, into the thoughts of Americans. They paint a picture of single-player not being popular at all. If that is accurate then who do you pass a M4ALL when it is presented as single player? A President can’t magically make it happen.

Polling is subject to change of course as things develop but right now they paint a less than good picture.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,537
Polling offers an insight, of uncertain accuracy, into the thoughts of Americans. They paint a picture of single-player not being popular at all. If that is accurate then who do you pass a M4ALL when it is presented as single player? A President can’t magically make it happen.

Polling is subject to change of course as things develop but right now they paint a less than good picture.
Single payer.
 
Oct 29, 2017
927
I havent heard beto say any of this himself and that's a problem.
He's said all of that, almost word for word, yesterday and today. Where people get caught up is they want him to use buzzwords like Medicare for All, Green New Deal, UBI, etc and he's not going to do that. At least not until he gets more of a feel for the campaign. He's not a Joe Biden 'oh Republicans are good guys at heart, give em a chance!' kinda guy, but he's not a Justice Dem either.

He's going to try to be as progressive as possible while not alienating moderates from both parties. You saw how quickly Kamala demurred away from her comments on healthcare. He doesn't want to be in that position, or having to double down on something he's not certain of.

As (MSNBC?) put it yesterday, he's trying to thread the needle between Biden and Bernie.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,871
If that is accurate then who do you pass a M4ALL when it is presented as single player? A President can’t magically make it happen.
Do the political work of explaining what it is and why it's good for people and why they should vote for it and why the detractors are spreading bunk.

Basically doing the work of leading expected of a president, or any political campaign.
 

JohnOfMars

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
947
Mars
I havent heard beto say any of this himself and that's a problem. The opening salvo for his campaign is him gesturing a bunch of vagueness at me
He’s Bobby Newport from Parks and Rec


Polling offers an insight, of uncertain accuracy, into the thoughts of Americans. They paint a picture of single-player not being popular at all. If that is accurate then who do you pass a M4ALL when it is presented as single player? A President can’t magically make it happen.

Polling is subject to change of course as things develop but right now they paint a less than good picture.
If you looked at the polls 2 years ago they’d be even worse. Things are improving.

As samoyed said, I’m optimistic. But I’m not naive though. We’re going to nationalize an industry that constitutes like 1/6 of the US economy. It will be an ugly fight. ACA was the most milquetoast of neoliberal reforms and it was still undermined and fought against. It will be worse.

less is right we should look at polls, but only so we can build a movement, not to just give up entirely. Especially when there isn’t even a bill on the floor.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,537
My dude won’t even commit on that (from December):

Beto O’Rourke ‘doesn’t know’ if he’s progressive: ‘I’m not big on labels’
(Edit, on mobile sorry for font issues)​
That’s because if he gets the nomination he doesn’t want a trump to be able to quote him saying he’s a progressive. The right vilifies that term. Don’t worry about what he calls himself and listen to his policies instead as time goes on. There’s not enough info today to make a decision.
 

JohnOfMars

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
947
Mars
That’s because if he gets the nomination he doesn’t want a trump to be able to quote him saying he’s a progressive. The right vilifies that term. Don’t worry about what he calls himself and listen to his policies instead as time goes on. There’s not enough info today to make a decision.
Lmao, the Right called Obamacare socialism and Nancy Pelosi a communist. They won’t be honest in their criticism.

Being afraid of Right wing messaging as if it was at all based on reality is laughable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,520
He’s Bobby Newport from Parks and Rec




If you looked at the polls 2 years ago they’d be even worse. Things are improving.

As samoyed said, I’m optimistic. But I’m not naive though. We’re going to nationalize an industry that constitutes like 1/6 of the US economy. It will be an ugly fight. ACA was the most milquetoast of neoliberal reforms and it was still undermined and fought against. It will be worse.

less is right we should look at polls, but only so we can build a movement, not to just give up entirely. Especially when there isn’t even a bill on the floor.
and this is why I say poll numbers arent an argument. Looking a poll isn't telling you if something is or isn't going to work or if it's something is the morally correct thing we should be striving for or not. It just tells us how much work we have to do in order to get the public on board.
 
Oct 25, 2017
920
Austin, TX
so, it sure doesn’t seem like a great sign that Beto’s campaign hasn’t reported a Day 1 fundraising total

obviously that’s not reason enough to write him off this early, but wasn’t the notion that his small-donor fundraising prowess would carry over from his Senate race one of the main rationales for his candidacy?
My wife bought us some new swag (he finally has car magnets!! the Senate run never had magnets which was absolutely bizarre) from the web store and she was order #9940 from the web store last night. Can't say with certainty that it started from 1 though, but if 10,000 people spent $30-50, he's raised at least $300k so far! Ha.
 
OP
OP
ThisThingIsUseful
Oct 31, 2017
4,115
That’s because if he gets the nomination he doesn’t want a trump to be able to quote him saying he’s a progressive. The right vilifies that term. Don’t worry about what he calls himself and listen to his policies instead as time goes on. There’s not enough info today to make a decision.
The right vilifies anything. Saying you're progressive isn't a death sentence whatsoever. After a Patriot Act vote in 2008, Obama told a crowd of supporters that he was "no doubt progressive."

Liberals need to get away from worrying about what the right will vilify. That you exist is enough for them to vilify.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,555
and this is why I say poll numbers arent an argument. Looking a poll isn't telling you if something is or isn't going to work or if it's something is the morally correct thing we should be striving for or not. It just tells us how much work we have to do in order to get the public on board.
I mean, that is generally how you should view polls. My original comment was semi-joking but pushing Medicare for All as single payer right now is unwise. That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t strive for single payer but that you have to be smart about it and know that you most likely are not going to jump straight to it. So use the relative popularity of Medicare 4 All, as an undefined phrase, as a tool that paves the way to single payer. It will be easier to make ground through such a path.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,763
.
That's actual a myth. His dad gave him the nickname so he could appeal to Hispanics if he ever ran for office. He’s as Hispanic as Mitt Romney with a spray tan.
Very true.

He also got a donation from Mitt Romney during one of Mitt's chocolate milk relapses. Therefore Beto is bought out by big dairy execs. Get woke sheeple.
 
Oct 30, 2017
9,587
London
Quick reminder that "liberalism" in the United States is centrism in every other developed nation.

Bernie & co. are left of center.
Most Dems are slightly right of center, with Pelosi, Hillary, and most establishment Dems being further right.

The only reason our overton window is so fucked is because a) Republicans exist and b) our nation is one built on supporting the status quo.

Oh, and before somebody complains about Pelosi being called a centrist again...
Democrats are socially quite liberal, and vis a vis immigration and racial equality, more so than in quite a few places. Economics isn't the only axis.

Where does the FN (France) and the Tory-led Brexit fall under this?
The FN in France is basically the GOP of today (and isn't the centre-right party, that's Les Republicains), and the Tory party is eating itself over Brexit as we speak - they're not quite as lockstep as the GOP.

There is (was) a centre-right coalition governing my country and they didn't destroy the place. The GOP absolutely would.

Edit: whoops didn't see how old these posts were.
 
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Nov 2, 2017
1,102
Outside
I would like a citation for this if you have any, just to keep my ducks in a row.
Get woke sheeple.
A March O’Rourke profile in the Dallas Morning News said the candidate’s father, the late Pat O’Rourke, who was elected El Paso’s county judge, "once explained why he nicknamed his son Beto: Nicknames are common in Mexico and along the border, and if he ever ran for office in El Paso, the odds of being elected in this mostly Mexican-American city were far greater with a name like Beto than Robert Francis O’Rourke. It was also a way," the story said, "to distinguish him from his maternal grandfather, Robert Williams."
https://www.statesman.com/news/2018...ed-and-robert-orourke-by-beto?template=ampart
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,876
D.C.
If you’re gonna claim to be a part of the Hispanic community, then yes you gotta be born into it. I’m not having Robert O’Rourke if he’s pulling a Dolezal.
Just to be extra clear, I was referencing the conspicuously timed Vanity Fair cover:



edit: s'okay. Also, after all this, I wonder what that dog's thinking.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,876
D.C.
Yeah my bad. I read your post too fast. That cover reminds me of the old Ronald Reagan cover of some magazine.
As someone who was pro-Beto (check my receipts), I'm finding it difficult to see him as anything but "Pete without substance." His saving grace, if there is one, is that -- anecdotally -- he's in enough people's upper echelon that he might emerge a compromise candidate.

But I'm officially swapping Harris/Beto to Harris/Pete.

Give me someone who fucking strongly condemns white nationalism after last night and doesn't dance around the subject.
 
Oct 27, 2017
397
As someone who was pro-Beto (check my receipts), I'm finding it difficult to see him as anything but "Pete without substance." His saving grace, if there is one, is that -- anecdotally -- he's in enough people's upper echelon that he might emerge a compromise candidate.

But I'm officially swapping Harris/Beto to Harris/Pete.

Give me someone who fucking strongly condemns white nationalism after last night and doesn't dance around the subject.
That’s a good ticket combo. I’m leaning towards a Warren/Yang or a Bernie/Warren ticket.
 
Oct 27, 2017
397
(I'd rather see Warren as Fed Chair than President, but I'd vote for her in a heartbeat too.)
Oh that’s actually a neat idea. But Warren shot herself on the foot with the whole indigenous ancestry test affair. Yang is interesting for me cause he’s really tech savvy and is starting to blow up on my insta and snap feeds. Even my conservative friends are leaning towards him.
 
Oct 27, 2017
395
As someone who was pro-Beto (check my receipts), I'm finding it difficult to see him as anything but "Pete without substance." His saving grace, if there is one, is that -- anecdotally -- he's in enough people's upper echelon that he might emerge a compromise candidate.

But I'm officially swapping Harris/Beto to Harris/Pete.

Give me someone who fucking strongly condemns white nationalism after last night and doesn't dance around the subject.
I'm feeling the same.
 
Oct 29, 2017
927
As someone who was pro-Beto (check my receipts), I'm finding it difficult to see him as anything but "Pete without substance." His saving grace, if there is one, is that -- anecdotally -- he's in enough people's upper echelon that he might emerge a compromise candidate.

But I'm officially swapping Harris/Beto to Harris/Pete.

Give me someone who fucking strongly condemns white nationalism after last night and doesn't dance around the subject.
Pete is second on my list, and Kamala third. I see Beto more as "Pete-like, but electable". Pete is willing to commit a bit further left than Beto, and is better at justifying his positions.

Out of those three, I'll go with Beto/Kamala.
 

JohnOfMars

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
947
Mars
To be fair, Bernie Sanders isn't a Democrat. Labels are just that.
The point wasn’t about labels but commitment. Bernie owns his positions and his labels. Beto on the other hand can’t commit to anything. Read that Medicare answer above “he’s not sure” about anything, not even himself. It’s embarrassing.
 
Dec 26, 2018
3,528
“Electability” is the most bullshit thing ever emerging from political discourse in American politics. It’s does nothing for voters except tell them that they should only care about their “team” winning rather than the values they have and policies they will implement once they do.
Unless your team wins your places and implementing them count for nothing. How do plan to execute those if you are unable to win an election? That's what it does for voters.

Anyone who is still overly invested in “””electability””” of candidates after Donald fucking Trump won the presidency all the while the media labeled him “unelectable” since he started his campaign is a fool. Electability is nothing more than gatekeeping
Hillary was the most electable candidate we had in '16. Electability is simply having advantages to increase the odds of winning, it's not a guarantee. Or are you going to tell me with a straight face you thought a candidate like Rocky Da La Fuente, dude ran in multiple states in '16, had the same shot at winning the primary as Bernie Sanders?

edit: This egregiously ignores the factors working for Trump in the election, too. Did you think none of that would have occurred had Bernie won the nomination?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,620
Whoo. Beto and Yang are the only dem candidates I like so far. Yang has got no chance, so as of now I'm hoping Beto comes out the candidate for the general.
 
Dec 26, 2018
3,528
I'm not as optimistic as JohnOfMars but fetishization of polls is how we got blindsided in 2016.
No-one could have seen what was coming in '16, and it had nothing to do with fetishising polling.

I'm not throwing it out entirely but the poll is not some almighty predictor of the future, and indeed, polling numbers can be changed with committed action.
It's a snapshot of the present, to adjust to a better outcome in the future.