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Beto O’Rourke Enters the 2020 Presidential Campaign

May 10, 2018
1,075
I am not a huge Beto fan (at least for his presidential bid) and think his campaign is pretty self-indulgent so far, but for christ's sake, why does everyone have to make a statement "taking ownership of their words" that were spoken when they were teenagers 30 years ago? Have some fortitude and call that shit what it is: not fucking relevant anymore.

Comments like this make me absolutely not want him on the debate stage. Trump would rip him to shreds.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,339
He shows more understanding of 2016 than Hillary "What Happened" Clinton did as far as I'm concerned. It's not just about his predictive prowess, but that he sees beyond "we're the good guys, they're the bad guys, we're going to win cause we're good and good eventually wins".

I like to post this a lot because it was an eye-opener for me: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/on-safari-in-trumps-america/543288/
Moore's take is that the Democrats lost because they couldn't connect with the white working class that was looking for an outlet for their anger. Which isn't a particularly unique take, nor one that I respect.

I feel like this part of the article you linked to is pertinent.

On the long drives between stops, I asked the researchers about their views and what they had been hearing around the country. They admitted that some of the things they had heard had shocked them. In South Florida, Hale told me, a local chamber of commerce official had calmly asserted, “We don’t have any Muslims here, and that’s a good thing, because Muslims are trouble.”

Hale, a tall woman with a breathy voice and a mop of curly red hair, had come to Wisconsin fresh off a silent Zen meditation retreat in California. She had spent her career building organizations and training activists to work for social change. Instinctively warm and curious, she easily struck up conversations with strangers and often ended interactions with hugs. Hers was a politics of empathy, she told me. “Whether you’re talking about nonviolence or feminism, it’s really the same idea: Everybody matters,” she said.

When she heard views that challenged her sense of empathy—Muslims were bad, welfare recipients were leeches, women should not have careers outside the home—Hale reminded herself that she was there to listen, not to judge. “People have said stuff I was surprised to hear them say out loud,” Hale told me. “But we have to learn from that, too. Whatever they believe is true, because it’s true for them.”
Both Moore and the Third Way don't give a shit about actually changing these people before catering to them. The only difference is the method they use to placate the beast. And as an immigrant, the idea that these people should direct the future of the Democratic Party worries me.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
4,823
Both Moore and the Third Way don't give a shit about actually changing these people before catering to them. The only difference is the method they use to placate the beast.
Oh I decided they wouldn't be changed regardless, I've given up on them entirely.

And you're right, Moore's take is not "new", what's special about his take is that Moore said it BEFORE Trump won the presidency, and it took mass media 1-2 years of "here's yet another article about Trump's America " before they thought "hey maybe these people are just fucking nuts".

The party of technocracy and means-tested, data-driven policy wonks should've told me this. The liberal media that champions journalistic integrity and "democracy" should've told this.

I shouldn't have to learn it in hindsight from a documentary maker.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,339
Oh I decided they wouldn't be changed regardless, I've given up on them entirely.

And you're right, Moore's take is not "new", what's special about his take is that Moore said it BEFORE Trump won the presidency, and it took mass media 1-2 years of "here's yet another article about Trump's America " before they thought "hey maybe these people are just fucking nuts".
I agree they're fucking nuts.

I'm just wondering why the solution to that is "Give them what they want".
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,823
I agree they're fucking nuts.

I'm just wondering why the solution to that is "Give them what they want".
The solution is give them what they want in such a way that it doesn't harm disenfranchised peoples. Pacify them without compromising your moral values.

There's a great ideology I've been learning about that seeks to empowers the working class against moneyed interests like corporations, billionaires and landlords without all the racist shit.

They call it "socialism".

As for "why socialism instead of capitalism". It's because capitalism is part of why these people are so unhappy (on top of the racism) and they don't even know it because they've been brainwashed into thinking capitalism is patriotic even as it robs the roof from their heads and the medicine from their hands.

It's also really important for the left to claim socialism FIRST because once right wingers figure it out, once they develop their ideology into "Medicare 4 All (white people)", they're going to crush the Democrats. What are you going to offer them once Fox News offers free healthcare and racism? More means-tested accessible healthcare? People like Tucker "Millionaire funded by Billionaires" Carlson are already starting to beat the anti-wealth drum. We need to beat them to it and we only have a few decades to do it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,942
Oh wow. Im just now seeing the posts taking shots at Beto in this thread for not revealing his campaign raising numbers...

Same damn posters mad asf in the main thread when his numbers came out and were impressive.

Do better people. Do better....
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,525
People need to realize that Beto is on the same damn team. Maybe you don't like him for his beliefs and would prefer someone else, I like Buttigieg the most myself, but at the end of the day he may just become the captain of the team. It is better off being indifferent to him instead of hating him if only for your own sake.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,526
People need to realize that Beto is on the same damn team. Maybe you don't like him for his beliefs and would prefer someone else, I like Buttigieg the most myself, but at the end of the day he may just become the captain of the team. It is better off being indifferent to him instead of hating him if only for your own sake.
Everyone is going to vote for the dem candidate. The primaries is when we hash things out and push for what we want, not when we settle
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,339
The solution is give them what they want in such a way that it doesn't harm disenfranchised peoples. Pacify them without capitulating your moral values.

There's a great ideology I've been learning about that seeks to empowers the working class against moneyed interests like corporations, billionaires and landlords without all the racist shit.

They call it "socialism".

As for "why socialism instead of capitalism". It's because capitalism is part of why these people are so unhappy (on top of the racism) and they don't even know it because they've been brainwashed into thinking capitalism is patriotic even as it robs the roof from their heads and the medicine from their hands.

It's also really important for the left to establish socialism FIRST because once right wingers figure it out, once they develop their ideology into "Medicare 4 All (white people)", they're going to crush the Democrats. What are you going to offer them once Fox News offers free healthcare and racism? More means-tested accessible healthcare? People like Tucker "Millionaire funded by Billionaires" Carlson are already starting to beat the anti-wealth drum. We need to beat them to it and we only have a few decades to do it.
I wonder how long that would last with shaping policy primarily around satisfying them. A cursory look at Europe shows all the free health care in the world won't satisfy the folks who want brown people out of the country.

I think socialism is a good direction to push for. Appealing to the sort of people who don't want Muslims in America in the interest of "pragmatism" though is going to rightfully come with a backlash.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
788
It's also really important for the left to claim socialism FIRST because once right wingers figure it out, once they develop their ideology into "Medicare 4 All (white people)", they're going to crush the Democrats. What are you going to offer them once Fox News offers free healthcare and racism? More means-tested accessible healthcare? People like Tucker "Millionaire funded by Billionaires" Carlson are already starting to beat the anti-wealth drum. We need to beat them to it and we only have a few decades to do it.
I am already seeing far right memes in support of Andrew Yang for basic income. The GOP fully morphing into the National Socialist Party is a horrifying thought, especially since it is so easy to picture.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,525
Everyone is going to vote for the dem candidate. The primaries is when we hash things out and push for what we want, not when we settle
I'm not saying to settle now. Push the candidate you want but some people are going too far in trying to "take-down" Beto. Sometimes it feels as if they are intentionally being disingenuous.

The less said about those that go doom and gloom over Beto the better.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,823
I wonder how long that would last with shaping policy primarily around satisfying them. A cursory look at Europe shows all the free health care in the world won't satisfy the people who want brown people out of the country.
This is because they spent the last three centuries being nearly-ethnostates and now they're finally seeing brown people on the regular as a consequence of our interventions in the Middle East that turned it into a warzone its birth residents want to leave. And it's just going to get worse with climate change. Apples and Oranges, I feel. Our white supremacy and oppression is a lot older and deep-seated than the kind gripping Europe.

Anyway their public industries are also under attack by private interests IIRC, we have the same problem (capitalists trying to make a buck off of human lives) and the same symptoms (far right is taking advantage of this to build up migrants as 'the enemy'), but whereas they're starting to see holes in their safety net, we barely have a safety net to speak of.

I am already seeing far right memes in support of Andrew Yang for basic income. The GOP fully morphing into the National Socialist Party is a horrifying thought, especially since it is so easy to picture.
Yeah I heard about that. Yang is quite annoyed he attracted the 4chan libertarian pepe crowd, supposedly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,526
Yang attracted that crowd because they don't actually stand for anything. They're in it for the memes and the irony, and once trump actually won, most of them lost interest or moved onto QAnon conspiracies because it's not fun or iconoclastic to support the guy who's actually in power and being incompetent. They're just edgelords, at the end of the day
 
Jan 15, 2019
1,415
Yang attracted that crowd because they don't actually stand for anything. They're in it for the memes and the irony, and once trump actually won, most of them lost interest or moved onto QAnon conspiracies because it's not fun or iconoclastic to support the guy who's actually in power and being incompetent. They're just edgelords, at the end of the day
I think this is about right. In general, they're edgelords more interested in killing boredom than anything else.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,823
Yang attracted that crowd because they don't actually stand for anything. They're in it for the memes and the irony, and once trump actually won, most of them lost interest or moved onto QAnon conspiracies because it's not fun or iconoclastic to support the guy who's actually in power and being incompetent. They're just edgelords, at the end of the day
This may be true but I don't feel comfortable just ignoring them even if I'm far from respecting them as can be. I've hated this group since around 2014, and now they're the kind of community turning out people who shoot up mosques and synagogues.

Be wary of edgelord pepes who're bored and have too much time their hands.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,526
This may be true but I don't feel comfortable just ignoring them even if I'm far from respecting them as can be. I've hated this group since around 2014, and now they're the kind of community turning out people who shoot up mosques and synagogues.

Be wary of edgelord pepes who're bored with too much time their hands.
Of course.

My point is just that I wouldn't attribute their beliefs onto Yang as much as they are supporting him precisely because they don't think he will win, and find him to be the funniest candidate to support. Also, they just want a $12,000 a year UBI so they can spend more of their time posting.