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Beto O’Rourke Enters the 2020 Presidential Campaign
- Thread starter ThisThingIsUseful
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It polls well only when presented without any details. When you mention higher taxes to pay for it, support plummets across the board. (There's more nuance than that, of course, but that's where the political fight would end up.)
I believe Bernie's tax is 8%, 2% which is already for medicare? Been a while since I looked at it.
Really, all you have to say is "your taxes go up 6% but you don't have monthly premiums, deductibles, co-pays.... all the bullshit. A vast majority of the country benefits from it big time.
BIG OIL
Fucking lol this is some fox news level propaganda shit. Some people here are just as susceptible as there brainwashed parents.
Fucking lol this is some fox news level propaganda shit. Some people here are just as susceptible as there brainwashed parents.
And once you get it in, it becomes like any other developed nation where it becomes incredibly popular and conservatives fear doing anything to fuck with it.
From NYT:
It doesn't sound like he's commited to the concept. I can buy that he dodged talking about MFA to help himself win against Ted Cruz in 2018, but now that he's running for president he needs to explicitly confirm what his position is.
And he should also spell out exactly what he means by MFA, because that term is getting a little muddy.
I think the pragmatists also under estimate how much people hate the middle man that is the insurance companies.
Medicare is the real pragmatic solution. Free market bullshit didn't work. It's the insurance companies fault, and what is going to happen to them is on THEM.
So does common sense gun control legislation, but that hasn't stopped both Republicans (both politicians and voters) from fighting that tooth and nail. Just because something polls well doesn't mean they'll actually support it when the time comes.
Seriously. Right-wing groups have villified taxes and made it hard for left-wing groups to increase them. Taxes should be presented in terms of how much people will end up saving as a result - at least with cuts digging into key supports and services.
This needs to be done again and again, as straightforwardly as possible because people are so near-sighted that they will sacrifice an indirect $200 in benefits for $20 in simple and direct tax cuts.
You also have the fake Medicare for All advocates that are running for president right now, who will shift the minute they are in office. It's all a front to keep the insurance middleman profiting.
this would be a solid burn if you actually thought there was some kind of equivalency in creativeness between the socialist running on an 'us' message and 'were all in this together'
I agree, man. It would be a net benefit.
But Republicans and Fox News would aggressively fight it, as they do all common sense solutions that would benefit everyone. All they have to say it "your taxes will go through the roof!" and you've cut off like 40% of the Medicare-for-all support, according to the polling. (Of course, they would go much further, hugely mischaracterizing the details, and using "dangerous socialist takeover" rhetoric.)
Getting people to understand the benefits is a big time generational fight. It took seven years for voters to realize Obamacare wasn't going to kill their grandparents with death panels, and it only barely survived a GOP Congress.
To stay on topic: I don't know yet if Beto is the candidate to lead a massive sweeping wave to take back the Senate. That's what we truly need to get anything done.
I understand the plight of it all.... ultimately it would help if the Dem party leadership/"establishment" was actually behind it in defending the metrics. They arn't, because the really don't want it. They just know it polls well in general so they are using it to try and get the nomination. Not gunna work though.
I like Beto but enough with the White Savior complex people attribute to him.
Harris-O'Rourke ticket would be drool worthy though.
Harris-O'Rourke ticket would be drool worthy though.
Nothing about that implies he was bought out by the oil industry?
The US isn't going to stop using oil cold turkey. I don't see why acknowledging that is a problem.
Do you think the US could completely eliminate oil and gas power right away? one year? two years? three? He is absolutely right that they will play a role in US power generation. Even the green new deal thinks it will take at least a decade to move off oil and gas so we really should think about how they can contribute in a sustainable way while on that path whether it is carbon taxes or another method.
"Bernie Sanders wants to take away your health care plan that you worked hard to earn, replace it with the same government plan that everybody has to use, and increase your taxes to pay for everybody elses health care. Vote Republican and we'll protect your health care plan, instead of trying to toss it in the trash like Bernie Sanders wants too."
Responsible oil manufacturing lol
Almost as bad as clean coal. I get saying that we need to stop our reliance on oil asap is gonna be a hard sell for a campaign and not practically feasible with the iron triangle but man you shouldnt be promoting it either
You forgot the part where they say "We want patients and doctors, not a bureaucrat in Washington, to decide what treatment you get."
I think oil dependence ending in my lifetime is overly optimistic.
Right - "Bernie wants to put overpaid union government workers who can't be fired in charge of your health care, saying whether you can get a surgery or not. Do you want to wait for months for a surgery like they do in Canada or do you want freedom and control over your own care?"
You're right, I'd rather have some insurance guy get that honor.
You're right. Let's give up. Better things aren't possible.
See that is the common response and it is a terrible one. It sets you up for one of two responses:
1. Well if an insurance guy makes a mistake at least we can fire him!
or
2. I agree that isn't good either. But lets talk about how we can REFORM the system instead of REPLACING it with a government takeover.
dems have gotten a lot better at this debate since 2010 and the ACA but i still expect 2020 to be brutal
I guess people do still like voting a conservative democrat solely for being charismatic and electable...... even though 2018 and 2019 shows that way way better candidates being elected is very very possible but well....... people act like it's still the 2000s.
Or maybe people that support Beto are actually closet Conservatives who vote democrat.
Or maybe people that support Beto are actually closet Conservatives who vote democrat.
If they really wanted to defend it, they would. Problem is.... they don't want to. If one of the centrists gets the nom and is elected, most we will get is lowering medicare age to 55.
Ah, the purity tests begin.
I see we are on the "we must cease all energy sources that have climate changing effects right fucking now" as a criticism to prudent energy policy to incentivize renewables and innovation to cost reduce them to the point where market forces do all of the migration work.
This isn't a game of civilization where you can select wildcard policies and migrate all cities to solar/wind power in 1 year.
I see we are on the "we must cease all energy sources that have climate changing effects right fucking now" as a criticism to prudent energy policy to incentivize renewables and innovation to cost reduce them to the point where market forces do all of the migration work.
This isn't a game of civilization where you can select wildcard policies and migrate all cities to solar/wind power in 1 year.
Is it your earnest estimation this will not be said regardless of who the Democrats run?
Beto's total voting record averages almost exactly in line with the average Democrat. He's about as perfect of an example of a Democrat as you can get, and an optimistic one at that. Just because he isn't a democratic socialist doesn't mean he's a Republican, lol. He wouldn't even come close to passing as an old school HW Bush Republican, let alone a Trump one. But you live in your false reality and feel good about yourself.
If we've moved the bar far enough left that a "conservative democrat" on the national stage is one who supports universal health care, restricting gun ownership, and saying the GND is technically and logically possible.
If that is what makes a centrist today we're already ahead of where we were in 2000s.
I'm sure it will, but the difference is, Bernie's response will be the same as Walter Mondale's, "of course I'm going to do this."
Look at this in the context of the post I was actually responding to... is this a good reason a presidential candidate shouldn't back a position? A majority of Americans support it but the lobbyists don't so a good "centrist" candidate should side with the lobbyists rather than the will of the people?
So the present the nuance? My god some of you have such low expectations for a candidate. "An issue will be minorly difficult to explain so I'd rather support a candidate who doesn't fight at all for the right thing"
I just can't shake the gut feeling that he's an extremely charismatic empty shirt. That was great when he was going up against an extremely uncharismatic empty shirt in Cruz for a senate seat.
I am just not vibing on him for the presidency. It's like the debating club captain at school who absolutely nails his opening remarks opposing the question "is America truly the land of opportunity" but deep down it just feels inauthentic because you feel like he isn't speaking from lived experience. It all just feels a bit too slick and rehearsed to me.
Again, it's not an analysis of his platform. Just my gut reaction, which is often a bigger factor in presidential elections that it should be. If I was running the GOP campaign, I would feel a lot more confident of devising a strategy to take him down than I would with Kamala.
I am just not vibing on him for the presidency. It's like the debating club captain at school who absolutely nails his opening remarks opposing the question "is America truly the land of opportunity" but deep down it just feels inauthentic because you feel like he isn't speaking from lived experience. It all just feels a bit too slick and rehearsed to me.
Again, it's not an analysis of his platform. Just my gut reaction, which is often a bigger factor in presidential elections that it should be. If I was running the GOP campaign, I would feel a lot more confident of devising a strategy to take him down than I would with Kamala.
A majority of Americans will only support it until the multi-billion dollar insurance companies band together to run attack ads nonstop and change their minds about the whole thing.
He'll reject the entire framing of the question, as he always has.
This is the problem with obsessing how Republicans frame the narrative. They'll always do the same thing regardless (they called the ACA, a Heritage Foundation plan, rank Communism and said it would institute panels to kill old people).
You have to create your own framing in a way that resonates with people.
That's not what he was saying and you know it.
We can agree that Medicare for All is the best way to go while also acknowledging the political realities of pursuing such legislation.
Acting like a tax increase on every American will be an easy sell, even if the benefits are carefully and rationally explained, is laughably naive.
Does that mean we shouldn't do it? Of course not. The ACA was very unpopular and probably lost us the House in 2010, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do.
However any candidate should be weighing the options carefully. Transitioning to a single-payer bill overnight is hardly the only way to get universal healthcare.
You are replying to people who insist Pelosi is also a centrist.
It's a losing battle.
Here's the thing - I don't think Bernie's framing won't work with median voters. People are incredibly averse to change and here's the thing, as much as people don't want to believe it, a lot of people actually do like their health care plan and like the fact they've earned it. Now, personally, I think that's stupid, but I think attempting to rewire basic American beliefs about earning certain things during a Presidential election is probably a bad plan.
Which we really are thank goodness, democrcrats have moved lefter.
Sorry he's not as electable as the other dem candidates when viewed under the standards of 2019.
but don't you see, anyone with a (D) next to their name is a centrist if they aren't simply using it as a costume while you're actually participating as an (I)
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