What's the issue you have with suggesting that a person who favors someone that is relatively more conservative than the other candidates is actually ideologically more conservative themself?
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Beto O’Rourke Enters the 2020 Presidential Campaign
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Yup, precisely.
People, I'm sorry if your definition of progressive isn't actually that progressive relatively speaking.
I mean, I just watched a town hall where he said we need to do something as soon as possible about climate change, because we're already kinda partially screwed. We need to provide guaranteed healthcare to everyone. We need to provide mental care to everyone, especially drug addicts and decriminalize marijuana. We need to pay educators and proxy workers (administrators, janitors, food services, etc) a living wage and get the minimum wage to $15 by the end of the first term of the new President. Women have the right to choose, period. We need to be strong on trade and make sure we're not getting a bad deal, but at the same time we need to work with our allies instead of going it alone and hurting our farmers, ranchers, etc.
Calling it a campaign for vapid morons is not helping Bernie. "Vapid morons" will continue to move to Beto if that's the road his fans want to go down.
I don't know how you can see what happened with Ilhan Omar and think to yourself "Yeah, Nancy Pelosi is totally progressive!".
One or two people got really vitriolic towards Ilhan Omar. It was creepy, but at least it was only one or two people.... or I hope it was....
You can also beat Trump at the game of Populism, which really seems to be trending around the world for better or worse.
Lotsa people resonate with "the system sucks" kind of messaging.
You can accept that no one is perfect? Pelosi can be progressive in many ways while being terribly shitty in other ways but overall can still be considered progressive.
See, this is a bit irritating because nowhere in my comments did I mention who I support, if anyone. I merely mentioned that I agree with the article for the reasons stated inside. The author supports Sanders (and Warren, but you fail to mention that) and you automatically assumed that I'm calling it a "campaign for vapid morons" because I'm trying to help Bernie. Maybe calling it a "campaign for vapid morons" is a bit too far, Beto absolutely is a candidate for people who don't pay nearly enough attention to the issues we are facing as a nation. Perhaps "willfully ignorant" is better? Maybe he's a candidate for people who don't give a fuck normally and are attracted by Obama speak 2.0. I don't know. In order for him to be a viable candidate in my mind, he's got to answer the question of why he's running. As far as can tell so far, the only reason he's running is because "he's gotta be in there." He doesn't have an answer to that question. Other candidates do.
This is basically my entire Twitter timeline right now:
It's all a bit much.
I fucking hate him so much
every movement he makes, every intonation of his voice, every gesture by every finger has been put through a thousand focus-groups before it ended up in his repertoire. he's an actor playing the role of an edgy politician ready to be pres. "I was born for this" was in the script
every movement he makes, every intonation of his voice, every gesture by every finger has been put through a thousand focus-groups before it ended up in his repertoire. he's an actor playing the role of an edgy politician ready to be pres. "I was born for this" was in the script
It's all a bit much.
It's almost like words such as "left" "right" or "center" are fairly useless as an absolute metric and are only decently useful for comparison within the specific political environment of the place and time, or comparing between two specific countries, time periods, etc...
...or something.
Yeah, I was referring to the title and tenor of the article, not to you. But, this is my impression of Bernie stans...
It's almost like using the "it's almost like" tactic of messaging can be a BS way to deflect the issues and problems of the US...... or something
If you see the rampant corruption of the GOP, historic income inequality, the dangers of climate change, etc. and really look at the crowd of Democratic candidates at this time, I just don't see how you can look at Beto and go "yeah, he's the guy to tackle this." No fucking way. Definitely not right now. Who knows, maybe that'll change over time. But as of right now? Hell no.
Adam H. Johnson ✔
@adamjohnsonNYC
Norm Solomon has a good neoliberalism red flag which is rhetoric w/ victims but no victimizers. Bad things just happen, or are a lack of 'smart' policy rather than malice. Politicians who don't have class bad guys are suspect, Beto has no bad guys. Sanders, Warren have bad guys.
@adamjohnsonNYC
Norm Solomon has a good neoliberalism red flag which is rhetoric w/ victims but no victimizers. Bad things just happen, or are a lack of 'smart' policy rather than malice. Politicians who don't have class bad guys are suspect, Beto has no bad guys. Sanders, Warren have bad guys.
Personally, I think he's the exact guy. He talks to income inequality, climate change, etc. He's likely to get out the vote more than any of the other candidates, which translates to more House and Senate seats. He also has a style that is almost the antithesis of Trump, and will be in the news almost as much, if not more if he's the nominee. He has Cornyn scared and he's not even running for TX Senate.
But this is what primaries are for. I really like Beto, but I also like Pete, Kamala, and Warren. There's a lot of time for things to change.
I follow a lot of rose Twitter accounts, and while most people aren't really feeling him, the commentary hasn't been THIS bad.
You know how it's really disingenuous and wrong to pretend everyone on the left that has an issue with Democrats is actually a Russian bot? This shit is just as unhelpful
Something something purity tests something something pragmatic.
Like I said...we can acknowledge that Pelosi can be disappointing in a few regards. The equation for being a progressive should not be one not being progressive in one aspect automatically kills your chances of being a progressive. Just because she isn't an ally in one situation/aspect doesn't mean that she can't be an ally in other situations/aspects.
We should strive for better but you must acknowledge that not everyone will agree with your viewpoint and hold stances different from you.
I don't know how taking money from a fascist ethnostate makes you a progressive in any way
This is such a great point and something for people to always look out for. Neoliberals adore politics where there are not defined enemies - bad things just happen, just an unfortunate thing that falls from the sky that we need to remedy but never fundamentally alter the structural reasons why those things happen or identify who has an interest in continuing to have those things happen. Bernie and Warren are effective (and not to mention, more importantly, correct) about identifying enemies that need to be mobilized against because they correctly see politics as a struggle of irreconcilable conflicting interests. So far nothing I've seen of Beto indicates that he does. He just says he sees people hurting - but not the people who do the hurting, which should be a major red flag for anyone who thinks he would get anything substantive done.
The fact that Beto has triggere all extreme leftist and alt right fringe elements tells me he is the leader America needs
"ＥｘｔｒｅｍｅＬＥＦＴＩＳＴＳ"
When you're so righ-wing that Beto criticisms are seen as "EXTREME"
I honestly feel like he has the best chance to win
Having really no record is actually a good thing and can't be blamed for a lot of stuff.
Having really no record is actually a good thing and can't be blamed for a lot of stuff.
Told you..
The reactions are hilarious. Most liberals and left folks like Beto. Some dislike him legitimately for his policies. Then there are the fringe left who act like the alt right when it comes to reason. That's what I was referring to
The reactions are hilarious. Most liberals and left folks like Beto. Some dislike him legitimately for his policies. Then there are the fringe left who act like the alt right when it comes to reason. That's what I was referring to
What is "reason" is going to be contingent on whatever ideology you subscribe to. If you come out swinging at leftists, calling them the same as alt-right, you're going to have to actually offer up an explanation as to how, or you're going to be laughed at.
Are you referring to yourself as an extreme leftist ? I wasn't
This is pretty perfect. You don't beat Trump by being better at going on TV, you beat him by offering a credible alternative narrative that explains people's suffering and how to overcome it. You can't do that without identifying a tangible source for the problem. Bernie is still the strongest candidate in this respect, and Beto, from what I've seen, is quite weak.
People have already picked their corner and he's a huge threat to those picks, so people are being defensive af.
In reality it has nothing to do with Beto, the knives would come out against anyone perceived as a threat against Bernie's base of young people
I've gotta be honest, "I was born to be in it" still has me laughing. I don't think Beto realized how perfectly that sums him up. A white guy with few firm stances who has done nothing important, literally given a Mexican nickname by his father in part to help him win elections in Texas if he ever chose to become a politician.
Question, why was everyone explicitly denying they were going to run before running? That's strange to me. Like if you're not sure, then don't make any explicit statement one way or another, but a bunch of candidates this time around said very clearly they would not under any circumstance run in 2020. That's just bizarre to me.
Oh you better believe it. Imo
Communism is not acceptable in US IMO. I don't believe most Americans disagree with me
Totally agree WTF is going on in this thread, people should be ashamed of themselves. Please people let's be civil it's ok not to like Beto but some of this anger is getting out of control.
What are you scared of?
Honing their ability to lie with a straight face to the American public about what they intend to do and then do a 180 a few months later.
Unlike others, Beto really didn't have any intention of running until after November, he was only running for Senate (and had he won, given the prize of a Dem Texas Senate seat, would have been there for as long as he could hold it basically). Someone like Gillibrand "ruling it out" around then was laughable given she had obviously been preparing for years to run (and what a run it's been so far).
That he's just a politician but it feels as people hate him more than trump, so much anger, seriously
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