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Better Call Saul - Season 4 - Mondays on AMC
- Thread starter Cornballer
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It's the weakest season by far with some rather hokey writing especially compared to the first 3 seasons. Mind you it's still really good TV but it has some issues.
Of course it is. No but seriously, yes, great stuff, loved it like all the other seasons.
Anytime :D
Because people need to know when they are wrong. Otherwise they go around thinking they know stuff.
Man, it's amazing to me that Mike only exists because of some dumb ass scheduling issue. This amazing character almost didn't exist and Better Call Saul would probably not exist either.Oh man
I'm just about to watch Five-O too. One of, if not the best character moment in both series.
First thing I thought of was Fredo getting killed in the Godfather II.
Yup.
There's a lot of deadweight early on in season 1, and everything with Tuco felt like the show might be some 'Vader made C3PO' type shit. I think that season finally became great with that flashback episode with Mike and then after that the show really figured itself out. Season 2, 3 and 4 have all been fantastic.
Right now I probably think 3 was overall more consistent but 4 is right behind 3 in terms of how good it is. Four felt like a bit like a reset point and then it had to built up a bit but that built that made the show lose a little bit of steam but only for 2 episodes, then it went back to being fucking great.
I easily preferred the first season to this one. A lot of the stuff going on this season was barely keeping my interest and plot lines like the one with Werner were a complete bust for me.
I was always impressed with the showrunners' restraint on having Chuck sing, because...well, you know
I remember Mike's plot line was a lot more interesting than Jimmy's in the first two seasons.
I'm actually due for a rewatch of seasons 1-3, there's a couple things I forgot.
Those scenes were good, what I'm saying when I say "the show might be some X" is that it gave off some vibes that this is what the show was gonna be. Like next episodes we were gonna see another Breaking Bad character or whatever. The first couple of episodes don't feel like BCS to me while the rest of season 1 does. Like I said, I think they were figuring out what the show was gonna be and they didn't really fully know in the beginning.
I was also not a big fan of the plotline with the couple who stole the movie. That, too, had some good scenes here and there but the overall plot was the weakest thing in all of BCS.
I was always impressed with the showrunners' restraint on having Chuck sing, because...well, you know
And I never knew Michael McKean used to sing, up until one of my friends told me. His singing voice is amazing.
I was being facetious. It's not strictly speaking impossible for that to happen, but Kristi would have no reason to come to Jimmy's aid even if she did become a criminal lawyer. And Jimmy, in turn, probably doesn't even remember her in his life as Gene.
Personally, I'm wierded out by the reference-phobia that people have developed. Prequels (and sequels and spin offs and so on) are kinda made specifically because people like a universe and they exist to satisfy that base. Characters showing up and interacting with each other is not a conceptually bad thing, only bad when badly done. Except I mean badly done by reasonable standards. Some people have really weird standards and find it such connections (like it's impossible for Tuco and Jimmy to make contact when they live in the same area) absurd, as if they have never had coincidence encounters in their lives.
To put it simply, I wouldn't be opposed to a Kristi Esposito spin off. Not because I love her character (How can I? She barely appeared and barely had any lines), but just because the writers are good enough to make any character interesting. If they wanted to do a prequel series with Travel Wire Fred, or a sequel with the college film crew with their post-saul adventures, the diaries of Francesca, or Joaquin Salamanca spin off, I wouldn't be opposed to any of that. The base content doesn't matter, the writing does, and we have every reason to believe that the writers will deliver. They always have so far.
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I think Saul, Nacho and Mike will tie together next season. I imagine Nacho will be Jimmy's foray into the cartel criminal world, maybe he'll get caught and Mike will need to recruit Jimmy to help him out now that he's team Gus.
I would be pretty okay with next season ending with the scene of BB where Saul meets Walt on the school. Then cuting to Gene, and having the last season be post-BB.
Bet the Twins couldn't do that shit, they'd just shoot shit up all predictable like
I know that you were being facetious, I was just saying that in the event that they go that route, it'd be nice if they went with what you said maybe with a few tweaks for the writing to be truly solid. But for the most part I agree with the inherent problems (why would Kristi keep what Jimmy said for years inside her head? Why would she have such a strong connection to a 5 minute meeting?), which is why I don't get why people are automatically assuming that Kristi Esposito is some sort of set-up fodder for the post-BrBa plot point. That's also why I bring up the Gould/Gilligan mentality of having their characters face the consequences.
You bring a good point about "reference-phobia" and the inherent hypocrisy behind the existence of prequels and people being annoyed about references being made, despite the fact that the prequel occupies the same universe as the original source. It's why I never understood why people were annoyed with Lalo and Hector being sentimental about the bell and the memories it represents. I fully trust the writing team to handle complex plot points and character introductions and I haven't been disappointed so far.
Loved this season again, there was one episode early on I thought was poor but it got better and better as it went on. Kim surely isnt going to put up with jimmy after the speech showed his real character for what it is.
Not sure who's going to finish that damn hole in the ground now but that storyline is taking forever. If that lalo guy finds out it's being built though shit is going down.
Not sure who's going to finish that damn hole in the ground now but that storyline is taking forever. If that lalo guy finds out it's being built though shit is going down.
The superlab equipment doesn't even first get there until the Breaking Bad timeline. There's a flashback where Gale unboxes it, and him and Gus talk about Walt's product.
Amazing finale. Holy crap. Sooo gripping.
I feel privileged that I get to watch this show in 4K with surround sound.
I feel privileged that I get to watch this show in 4K with surround sound.
LMAO
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I'm going to have to give it nore thought, but I'm not really a fan of Andreas's death in breaking bad
Jesse's crying and shouting during her death was gut wrenching though.
I swear every time Jesse cried in BB I felt like crying. Aaron Paul sells the emotion so well.
They only confirm she didn't get a scholarship
Perhaps someone else did change their vote to her which while it didn't do much did mean jimmys words effected someone positively
Perhaps someone else did change their vote to her which while it didn't do much did mean jimmys words effected someone positively
I think Jimmy's feelings are far more complicated than he's an asshole. He's definitely that, but like someone above said, he really has just repressed so much deep inside of him. Combine that with all the resentment he has been harbouring. That shit is like poison and rather then confronting it, it has pretty much transformed the person that he is but I think we still see glimpses of his normal self. The beginning was obviously a genuine moment between him and Chuck. Also I think even the speech might have had a genuine moment or 2. Jimmy is a great con man but no one is THAT good. Had to come from somewhere.
Man, Jimmy gets a pass. When your brother is that much of a tool who's trying to screw you over and pretty much lied to you for years even though he was taking care of him. He gets a pass for faking his emotions about Chuck's death. Fuck Chuck.
What a garbage brother.
What a garbage brother.
The more I watch the intro of Winner, the more I'm narratively stimulated. It has so much depth that I never thought about in my first viewing. I'll probably do a long write up about how that intro is a culmination of everything that Better Call Saul has shown us. It's an injustice to think it's just about the McGill brothers relationship.
Does he really? Just because Jimmy does all the things for his brother, doesn't mean that it suddenly erases all of the things he did wrong. Say what you will about him, but Chuck was right about Jimmy not really changing as we see him using his Slippin' Jimmy tactics to get what he wants (at the same time, Chuck is also complicit in creating Saul Goodman).
Does he really? Just because Jimmy does all the things for his brother, doesn't mean that it suddenly erases all of the things he did wrong. Say what you will about him, but Chuck was right about Jimmy not really changing as we see him using his Slippin' Jimmy tactics to get what he wants (at the same time, Chuck is also complicit in creating Saul Goodman).
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He was salty as fuck just because his younger brother who looked up to him became a lawyer too. Not his fault that their parents didn't love them the same. Then you have Jimmy take care of him after his wife left him, and put of up with all the electricity nonsense. I don't remember Jimmy complaining.
Yeah, Jimmy is a con man. But he never fucked over his brother until after season 1 when he learns the truth. You have your brother taking care of you, and then on the side your telling your partners to not give him a job. Maybe if Jimmy got a job like Kim, he wouldn't have reverted back to his cons. Instead of a being a good brother and praising Jimmy for turning his life around, dude mocks him from getting his degree from a no name University. Dude gives him a final fuck you too even after his death. Chuck played a huge role in turning Jimmy into Saul, "you'll always be slipping Jimmy." Yeah anyone would I they had him a for a brother.
Jimmy gets a pass from me. Chuck is a piece of shit.
Yeah, Jimmy is a con man. But he never fucked over his brother until after season 1 when he learns the truth. You have your brother taking care of you, and then on the side your telling your partners to not give him a job. Maybe if Jimmy got a job like Kim, he wouldn't have reverted back to his cons. Instead of a being a good brother and praising Jimmy for turning his life around, dude mocks him from getting his degree from a no name University. Dude gives him a final fuck you too even after his death. Chuck played a huge role in turning Jimmy into Saul, "you'll always be slipping Jimmy." Yeah anyone would I they had him a for a brother.
Jimmy gets a pass from me. Chuck is a piece of shit.
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Again, I feel people are being too hung up on the "The committee just wants Jimmy to honor Chuck" part of it. I mean, when you get down to it, they wouldn't look kindly on Jimmy just shitting on his brother and perhaps it's unfair that they kinda forcefully contextualize Jimmy having to talk about Chuck as him learning from his mistakes, but it's wrong to think that they just wanted him to say some nice words about chuck. Look, the core problem here is that Jimmy was trying to bullshit bullshit-detectors in his original meeting. They tried to get him to mention Chuck because that is the source of the entire conflict: Chuck betrayed his trust, he broke into Chuck's house, he was sued by Chuck, the transcript talked about their history, etc. And he goes out of his way to not talk about him?
Forget the committee, Kim herself was disturbed and weirded out by how he reacts to Chuck's memories after his death. He was completely numb during most of the first episode with the funeral, then disturbed at how, afterwards, he went about cheerfully feeding his fish. Jimmy has been trying to basically rewrite his mindset to exclude Chuck from his life, as if Chuck never had any influence over his life, and it's simply bullshit for him to pretend that there was nothing there. It's more disturbing that it seems to have worked and Jimmy legitimately seems to lack human emotion that he used to have before, but he can't simply rewrite the past as people know it.
That's why he didn't get approved. He was transparently fake, not because he didn't kiss Chuck's dead ass, but because he is lying to himself if he thinks he can live in a world where he can tell people that Chuck was nobody to him. That's why his speech at the finale was so convincing: He was finally acknowledging that yes, Chuck has a major influence over his life, not all of it positive. Mostly everything he said to them, barring everything post "I'm lucky to have this letter" was the honest truth being used as a lie: Jimmy feels nothing for Chuck now, but he did before.
Do you remember how the Kettlemens back in season 1 were not just lying to others, but actively seeming to convince themselves that they didn't steal the money, even to parties that literally knew what they did? That's where Jimmy's insincerity was coming from.
Forget the committee, Kim herself was disturbed and weirded out by how he reacts to Chuck's memories after his death. He was completely numb during most of the first episode with the funeral, then disturbed at how, afterwards, he went about cheerfully feeding his fish. Jimmy has been trying to basically rewrite his mindset to exclude Chuck from his life, as if Chuck never had any influence over his life, and it's simply bullshit for him to pretend that there was nothing there. It's more disturbing that it seems to have worked and Jimmy legitimately seems to lack human emotion that he used to have before, but he can't simply rewrite the past as people know it.
That's why he didn't get approved. He was transparently fake, not because he didn't kiss Chuck's dead ass, but because he is lying to himself if he thinks he can live in a world where he can tell people that Chuck was nobody to him. That's why his speech at the finale was so convincing: He was finally acknowledging that yes, Chuck has a major influence over his life, not all of it positive. Mostly everything he said to them, barring everything post "I'm lucky to have this letter" was the honest truth being used as a lie: Jimmy feels nothing for Chuck now, but he did before.
Do you remember how the Kettlemens back in season 1 were not just lying to others, but actively seeming to convince themselves that they didn't steal the money, even to parties that literally knew what they did? That's where Jimmy's insincerity was coming from.
Again...not necessarily. Think about everything that occurred in this episode: Jimmy dedicated a library, attended the scholarship thing, wept at his gravestone.
And what were the committee doing when he came up to them with Chuck's death letter in hand? Barely paying attention, with one of them absentmindedly flipping through papers.
It wasn't until Jimmy actually decided to talk about his true relationship with his brother, which included some shit talking.
I mean, don't get me wrong, the committee wouldn't have looked kindly on him just trashing chuck, but what they needed some amount of actual truth out of him. Really, his only lie came at the end, where he promised he would try to be better.
It's not just that Jimmy became a lawyer. It's that he did it by cutting corners despite having a clear trajectory. He went to University of American Samoa, which might as well be DeVry: Law Edition from the way people look at that school's Law division. At the same time, Chuck is being incredibly elitist about where lawyers come from, especially considering Jimmy isn't really a bad lawyer from a skills standpoint, he's just terrible at offering actual workable solutions that are also legal. Also, that's wrong to think that Jimmy wouldn't have slipped into his old ways if he was a peer at HHM. Before Jimmy knew that it was really Chuck that blocked him from getting a job at HHM, he was already doing Slippin' Jimmy tactics like the billboard con to try and drive more clienteles, and he was willing to help Mike by dumping coffee on a detective to get his evidence notes pickpocketed (we know this but Chuck doesn't). Chuck had reason to think he would never stop being Slippin' Jimmy, which of course contributed to Jimmy's loss of self-identity to the point that if he felt boxed in as "Slippin' Jimmy" to his peers, then he might as well just give up and become "Slippin' Jimmy"/Saul Goodman.
I'm not saying Chuck didn't directly contribute to Jimmy becoming Saul Goodman, but rather both McGill brothers' actions towards each other, and their inability to mend their flaws is incredibly destructive to each other. Jimmy's antics flared up Chuck's mental illness (as it is more emotions-based, and went out of control when Chuck told Jimmy that he never cared about him), and Chuck's negative reinforcement of people never changing contributed to Jimmy being boxed in and permanently seen as "Slippin' Jimmy" (which is why the juxtaposition to Esposito is so telling. He tries to convince people that despite her shoplifting, she might offer a perspective that the legal world might not be privy to. But when his peers brand her as a "shoplifter" instead of saying her name, Jimmy takes it so harshly because he interprets it to mean that he never really got away from the Slippin' Jimmy shit).
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When it aired, I thought the same thing, but I've come to terms with it as we needed to give Jesse a truly fresh start for the future, and as tragic as that was for Andrea's fate, there's no way he would leave Andrea+Brock and that world behind. Plus, as mentioned, we got another incredible Aaron Paul emotional scene.
Back to Saul, I've noticed that all four season finales are Jimmy flashbacks, and all four relate to his relationship with Chuck (S1: Chuck gets Jimmy to move to Albuquerque, S2: Their mother dies calling for Jimmy, S3: Chuck reads Jimmy a bedtime story, S4: Chuck vouches for Jimmy's law degree). I wonder if S5 will continue that, perhaps showing the first signs of Chuck's condition?
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So, did he say "Saul Goodman" or "It's all good, man" at the end, I think it was Saul Goodman. As in the name he is going to use.
I saw this gif on the sub reddit and it's obviously title It's all good, man, but I don't believe these are the proper titles, and this storyboard for the final scene has it as Saul Goodman.
If you wonder. In german it was translated clearly as Saul Goodman
Its honestly the bleakest part of the show for me, I thought which is funny considering she's a relatively minor character- but damn with the other sympathetic characters who died (Hank, Gomez, Gale) you at least got the impression that those characters signed up for that fate in their lines of work. But Andrea? She was innocent, imagining Brock finding her dead like that, and Jesse's reaction.... I wasn't a fan of it upon airing, I thought they want too far but honestly it didn't;t feel cheap. It didn't feel cheep and still felt gut-wrenching, and that's the mark of truly great writing and acting.
Andrea's death was an arguably....and I do mean arguably.... an example of fridging being well done...sorta....
She was killed for no more reason, and no more consequence, just to cause Jesse more pain. More than that, it didn't feel like she had much in the way of characterization in the show. I mean, she had slightly more than comparable side characters in other shows with similar roles, but that's just BB being a step above everyone else in everything, as the norm. But within the context of the story of BB, she just didn't have much characterization.
But at the same time, I can't help but feel that can be it's own merit. She was just an ordinary person, living her life. She didn't lack definition entirely, but she was seperate from the narrative that Jesse and everyone else connected to him was a part of. She was an innocent bystander who didn't have anything to do with his life except being his girlfriend, with her death being completely outside of her knowledge or control.
Really, it's not that her death is any sort of subversion or even intelligent manipulation of the Fridging trope. It's pretty much played straight, and in many other shows, it'd be derided as a cheap gutpunch that it basically is. But everything surrounding it is so good, it feels like it's acceptable by association.
On that note, I've actually been meaning to make a post on how BB and BCS write female characters for a while...
She was killed for no more reason, and no more consequence, just to cause Jesse more pain. More than that, it didn't feel like she had much in the way of characterization in the show. I mean, she had slightly more than comparable side characters in other shows with similar roles, but that's just BB being a step above everyone else in everything, as the norm. But within the context of the story of BB, she just didn't have much characterization.
But at the same time, I can't help but feel that can be it's own merit. She was just an ordinary person, living her life. She didn't lack definition entirely, but she was seperate from the narrative that Jesse and everyone else connected to him was a part of. She was an innocent bystander who didn't have anything to do with his life except being his girlfriend, with her death being completely outside of her knowledge or control.
Really, it's not that her death is any sort of subversion or even intelligent manipulation of the Fridging trope. It's pretty much played straight, and in many other shows, it'd be derided as a cheap gutpunch that it basically is. But everything surrounding it is so good, it feels like it's acceptable by association.
On that note, I've actually been meaning to make a post on how BB and BCS write female characters for a while...
In Brazilian Portuguese it was "Está tudo certo, cara." (S'all good, man). Granted, the wordplay is untranslatable.
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This season felt slower than the others to me, but I still loved it. I suppose Kai's storyline was a bit of a red herring? I sort of doubt we will see anything else of the Germans.
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