Beyond downhill: YouTube edition. Singing lyrics can get you claimed.

TheBiInBilingual · Mar 25, 2019

I have searched and didn't see any thread on this yet. I also don't know if this has been known for a while or if it's new, I've only read about it for the first time today.

So apparently, singing lyrics to a song, even if the song/music is not in your video, can get the video claimed by anyone who has the rights to the lyrics.

We've all been aware of how shitty YouTube has become with these practices being present for a long time. With music it was somewhat understandable, but apparently singing lyrics without any music is already a valid reason to get your video claimed.

Jacksepticeye, a famous gamer YouTuber addressed this on Twitter , also in a reply to that tweet that it actually wasn't the algorithm this time. People manually looked for his video and decided 'yeah, let's screw this guy over'.

Another twitter user, @Iam8bitryan , also confirmed it has happened before with a reply:

Just as I thought YouTube couldn't go down any lower, it continues to surprise me. Where is it going to end? Will another platform eventually rise from dust, or will youtube remain the only one, continuously and consistently screwing over it's creators?

mael · Mar 25, 2019

You think movies and tv shows clear the rights to songs they use or sing for no reason?

nsilvias · Mar 25, 2019

i'm pretty sure this breaks some kind of law, rite? i was under the impression that covers are protected in some way.

jett · Mar 25, 2019

So what does this mean for YouTube channels that make music covers for a living?

Nappuccino · Mar 25, 2019

nsilvias said:
i'm pretty sure this breaks some kind of law, rite? i was under the impression that covers are protected in some way.

Still gotta pay for covers.

LL_Decitrig · Mar 25, 2019

nsilvias said:
i'm pretty sure this breaks some kind of law, rite? i was under the impression that covers are protected in some way.

They're not. Even live performance of a song without any recording equipment is subject to copyright. The only getout here would be pastiche or satire, which requires you to transform the original work. So that literal version of Total Eclipse of the Heart isn't going to get a valid DMCA claim, but a recording of you singing the original lyrics in the shower might.

LL_Decitrig · Mar 25, 2019

jett said:
So what does this mean for YouTube channels that make music covers for a living?

They probably pay for clearance.

Deleted member 2802 · Mar 25, 2019

jett said:
So what does this mean for YouTube channels that make music covers for a living?

RIP those flute/recorder cover videos

Seesaw15 · Mar 25, 2019

Hasn't this been a thing forever? Youtubers I watch are always like I can only sing so many lyrics before I get claimed. Same for when I listened to talk radio. When I used to watch Game Grumps in 2014 this was a running joke.

Heromanz · Mar 25, 2019

What a dumb rules

collige · Mar 25, 2019

Legally, this has been known for a very long time, hence the whole "Happy Birthday" song bullshit that only got recently resolved.

What I wanna know is who's actually watching all these videos though. Does Sony/EMI just hire people to watch highly-viewed Youtube videos all day?

SageShinigami · Mar 25, 2019

Nappuccino said:
Still gotta pay for covers.

Fuck, really?

Cantaim · Mar 25, 2019

While I wanna give some credit to youtubers. That's exactly how it is on television, radio, and in movies. So I don't really see why Youtubers who do youtube for a living should get an exception when no other industry does.

Anth0ny · Mar 25, 2019

YouTube is cracking down on everything.

jett said:
So what does this mean for YouTube channels that make music covers for a living?

Covers are a fair use nightmare. Wouldn't be surprised if they all get fucked.

Strafer · Mar 25, 2019

Youtube is really going down the shitter huh.

LL_Decitrig · Mar 25, 2019

Anth0ny said:
Covers are a fair use nightmare. Wouldn't be surprised if they all get fucked.

A cover definitely isn't fair use. That's the whole point.

CDX · Mar 25, 2019

Back 20 years ago when Rosie O'Donnel had her talk show I remember her talking about that. I remember her saying the show had to pay for all the songs she sung the lyrics to, and that's why her show had more difficulties being sold on the international syndication market outside the US. Because they'd have to pay for the international song rights too.

AND I thought nearly everybody has heard about singing the "Happy Birthday" song and why seemingly every movie and TV show tried to avoid it.

So I don't think this is surprising at all, or even something new in regards to copyright.

Hollywood Duo · Mar 25, 2019

Seems like a pretty established legal thing in other mediums. You have to get permission.

LL_Decitrig · Mar 25, 2019

collige said:
What I wanna know is who's actually watching all these videos though. Does Sony/EMI just hire people to watch highly-viewed Youtube videos all day?

YouTube is simply a target-rich environment. While it's easy to scan the audio stream for likely hits on recorded music, you can reduce the search space substantially by watching the output of, say, the top 100 YouTubers by advertising revenue. At that point you're able to employ a person to watch everything and file a valid claim against every clear infringement. If somebody sings Bohemian Rhapsody on their $2m/year channel they can certainly afford to pay a reasonable per capita to the holders of the rights to perform the song.

Htown · Mar 25, 2019

mael said:
You think movies and tv shows clear the rights to songs they use or sing for no reason?

never thought about it that way

huh

Elderly Parrot · Mar 25, 2019

This has been forever, its always funny watching big brother. If somebody starts singing a song they cut them off

riotous · Mar 25, 2019

Get permission; the main thing isn't money in these small cases it's whether they want their song associated with your content.

Rob · Mar 25, 2019

I know the Game Grumps got hit with this stuff a year or two ago. Just them singing it off handedly hit them.

Nightbird · Mar 25, 2019

Video in question by the way:

https://youtu.be/g8t20CJH870

So yeah, that's a really bad look for YT. Even with everything that happened so far.

StopMakingSense · Mar 25, 2019

This is one of those things that has been around forever, just catching up with YouTube.

Was/is a big running joke with talk radio/podcasts. Sing a couple words from a rolling stone song or something and then the other host yelling 'stop before we owe them 100k!" Or something to that effect.

John198X · Mar 25, 2019

Hollywood Duo said:
Seems like a pretty established legal thing in other mediums. You have to get permission.

Yeah, as awful and screwed up as IP laws are in general, I can't get worked up over a YT video from such a high visibility channel being held to a similar standard to, say, a TV program.

teruterubozu · Mar 25, 2019

I do covers of songs on my channel. Basically you can't "monetize" the video (you gotta unclick the box when uploading) or they will throw a strike against you. However there are songs/artists that completely deny you no matter what.

Youtube does have a searchable list of songs that detail all the copyright details:

https://www.youtube.com/music_policies

LL_Decitrig · Mar 25, 2019

Nightbird said:
Video in question by the way:

https://youtu.be/g8t20CJH870

So yeah, that's a really bad look for YT. Even with everything that happened so far.

I don't get your point, if there is one. That's a channel with 21m subscribers and the video has around 32, 000 approvals. Videos on the channel seems to occasionally accrue millions (literally millions) of views. Somebody somewhere holds the rights to that late 1960s song he sings in the opening. The performance is engaging and draws the viewer in. He could have written his own song, or used a different song, or obtained permission. He's probably a millionaire now and his biggest problem is likely finding a calculator with a display wide enough to display how much money his tax accountant saved him this month. Spare your tears, I'm all cried out.

Turnabout Sisters · Mar 25, 2019

I got my twitch vod muted for singing The Beatles' If I Fell. I sort of took it as a compliment first since I thought I was just really close lol. But they may well just be listening to the lyrics. Kinda creepy, if everything you've ever said on stream is stored somewhere.

riotous · Mar 25, 2019

Nightbird said:
Video in question by the way:

https://youtu.be/g8t20CJH870

So yeah, that's a really bad look for YT. Even with everything that happened so far.

YouTube had to facilitate copyright claims to stay in existence; it's one of the reasons they sold to Google because they were essentially on their way out, losing money, unable to fight lawsuits.

This is not a bad look for YouTube, it's required for them to operate to allow copyright claims.

the_wart · Mar 25, 2019

riotous said:
YouTube had to facilitate copyright claims to stay in existence; it's one of the reasons they sold to Google because they were essentially on their way out, losing money, unable to fight lawsuits.

This is not a bad look for YouTube, it's required for them to operate to allow copyright claims.

This. Now, whether the current state of copyright law is overly restrictive is another issue, but that's not something Google has control over.

Well. Yet, anyway.

Nightbird · Mar 25, 2019

LL_Decitrig said:
I don't get your point, if there is one. That's a channel with 21m subscribers and the video has around 32, 000 approvals. Videos on the channel seems to occasionally accrue millions (literally millions) of views. Somebody somewhere holds the rights to that late 1960s song he sings in the opening. The performance is engaging and draws the viewer in. He could have written his own song, or used a different song, or obtained permission. He's probably a millionaire now and his biggest problem is likely finding a calculator with a display wide enough to display how much money his tax accountant saved him this month. Spare your tears, I'm all cried out.

Huh?

I don't care about jacksepticeye.

I just don't like that you can't even sing a few seconds of a song anymore without getting flagged.
I would understand using the song, but basically shower-singing?

That's ridiculous.

riotous said:
YouTube had to facilitate copyright claims to stay in existence; it's one of the reasons they sold to Google because they were essentially on their way out, losing money, unable to fight lawsuits.

This is not a bad look for YouTube, it's required for them to operate to allow copyright claims.

I get what you mean, but there's gotta be a limit to that. This instance counts as cover as best and it got flagged.

What does that mean for all those channels that actually cover songs or redo them in other styles?
Are they now going to be showered with strikes as well?

Again, I understand why this is happening, I just don't like it, especially because there's nothing implying that it'll stop there.

LL_Decitrig · Mar 25, 2019

Maya Fey said:
Kinda creepy, if everything you've ever said on stream is stored somewhere.

I don't know the United States federal law very well and I'm not a lawyer anyway. But I would not be surprised if Twitch were legally obliged to retain certain stream data, particularly audio from an open mic, for years. Even if they are not, the stream is probably being monitored by several security agencies, some of whom share data beyond the reach of your bill of rights.

It's the world we live in. You have no way of knowing if somebody on your channel is really a terrorist communicating with his or her paymasters. Or a FISA court could have issued a multi-hop warrant that covers your stream because one of the players with access to our is a person of interest. You'll never know.

John198X · Mar 25, 2019

Nightbird said:
Huh?

I don't care about jacksepticeye.

I just don't like that you can't even sing a few seconds of a song anymore without getting flagged.
I would understand using the song, but basically shower-singing?

That's ridiculous.

There's a difference between singing an existing song privately and singing it in a revenue-generating product viewed by millions of people. I still think it's stupid, but there's a precedent for it in media.

Grath · Mar 25, 2019

How will this work with Stadia and games music? Or streamers singing?

LL_Decitrig · Mar 25, 2019

Nightbird said:
Huh?

I don't care about jacksepticeye.

I just don't like that you can't even sing a few seconds of a song anymore without getting flagged.
I would understand using the song, but basically shower-singing?

That's ridiculous.

I get what you mean, but there's gotta be a limit to that. This instance counts as cover as best and it got flagged.

What does that mean for all those channels that actually cover songs or redo them in other styles?
Are they now going to be showered with strikes as well?

Again, I understand why this is happening, I just don't like it, especially because there's nothing implying that it'll stop there.

He might have got away with it, if only Guardians of the Galaxy hadn't recently made that a very high value song.

You can write your own songs, you know. Nobody can stop you.

SweetVermouth · Mar 25, 2019

Nightbird said:
I just don't like that you can't even sing a few seconds of a song anymore without getting flagged.
I would understand using the song, but basically shower-singing?

You can do that, you just can't distribute your shower singing.

If you cover a song in front of an audience you need to get permission to do so. Most of the time there is a local organization that represents music authors for every country (ASCAP in the US for example) and everyone needs to pay to that, even artists who sing their own songs.

mael · Mar 25, 2019

Htown said:
never thought about it that way

huh

And it's been like that for literal years.
One of the few vids I actually posted on youtube was a concert in a bar by a local band.
I can tell you that the vid didn't stay up long enough for me to even be able to see it online.
Monetization never even was a consideration for the video.
That was over 10 years ago.

Invisible Cities · Mar 25, 2019

I don't know how this still confuses people: you can't monetize other people's work.

MegaRockEXE · Mar 25, 2019

Basically this, but for YouTubers?

It was a simpler time before. But you ever seen movie credits? If even a single line was spoken, they had to pay for it. But what are regular creators supposed to do? Pay the big bucks they probably don't have just to do what they used to do before?

LL_Decitrig · Mar 25, 2019

Invisible Cities said:
I don't know how this still confuses people: you can't monetize other people's work.

Word. If you're like many people and think people should be allowed to sell the sweat of their brow at a decent price, you should probably support the copyright system at least to the extent that it ensures that writers are recompensed every time is copied or performed.

Or if like JS Bach and other filthy communist Europeans in the eighteenth century you rip popular love songs to use in your St Matthew Passion, you will probably be forgotten forever.

Oh wait...

Yeah, copyright is weird stuff. It reflects the fact that we all think things we benefit from should be free as air, until the possibility of enclosing our work and renting it out becomes a possibility. Then we're all for selling air by the litre.

Nightbird · Mar 25, 2019

LL_Decitrig said:
He might have got away with it, if only Guardians of the Galaxy hadn't recently made that a very high value song.

You can write your own songs, you know. Nobody can stop you.

SweetVermouth said:
You can do that, you just can't distribute your shower singing.

If you cover a song in front of an audience you need to get permission to do so. Most of the time there is a local organization that represents music authors for every country (ASCAP in the US for example) and everyone needs to pay to that, even artists who sing their own songs.

I get it, I truly do.
It's just frustrating to me, that's all.

Beyond downhill: YouTube edition. Singing lyrics can get you claimed.

THE STORE ENSURED ME THERE WOULDN'T BE FILM

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