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Bicycle ERA |OT| This Is Why

Oct 25, 2017
12,043
They are adding mountain bike trails and steering to Zwift

They showed this off at euro bike. I think they’ll be losing me this winter. I’m going back to trainer road. Zwift is too easy for me to slack off and all the numbers feel stupidly inflated
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,549
They showed this off at euro bike. I think they’ll be losing me this winter. I’m going back to trainer road. Zwift is too easy for me to slack off and all the numbers feel stupidly inflated
I like it, but if I’m on the trainer I want to train, so I gravitate to TR. I mostly use Zwift if it’s a rainy day and I want to exercise or if I am trying to get back in shape (which should hopefully be never going forward).

they definitely have an audience tho
 

Sankt Ra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,848
So I was searching for a Gravel bike and asked myself why nobody just bolted a SRAM Eagle set onto a gravel frame and called it a day, as I found out right now - thats exactly what Canyon did with their new 2020 Grail bike. But 3500EUR is a hard pill to swallow :(
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
So I was searching for a Gravel bike and asked myself why nobody just bolted a SRAM Eagle set onto a gravel frame and called it a day, as I found out right now - thats exactly what Canyon did with their new 2020 Grail bike. But 3500EUR is a hard pill to swallow :(
people do this on their own, I’ve definitely seen some wide set ups. A lot of the stuff hitting the big brands has been happening on the lower level scene. Frame builders definitely been doing silly builds around eagle too
 

HTupolev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
769
So I was searching for a Gravel bike and asked myself why nobody just bolted a SRAM Eagle set onto a gravel frame and called it a day
People do.

One hindrance is that there aren't good options for mounting an Eagle-compatible mechanical shifter on drop bars, so affordability is a problem.
The other problem is that the gear spacing on a 10-50 twelve-speed cassette is crazy wide. Not a problem for MTB, but an annoyance for most people who want their gravel bike to still have good road-bike feel.

What would be nice is if road triples hadn't died, or if the big manufacturers would stop messing around and just make super-subcompact road doubles like 42-26 already.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,549
67 people signed up for my cat 5 race tomorrow, pretty much even between under/over 40. Should be an interesting starting experience.
 

Frontieruk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
421
This story is just surreal (I also don’t understand why all Zwift bike differences are not cosmetic only).

Because If you spent $6 on your carbon Orbea in game you want it to feel different from the free bike
 

T8SC

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
907
UK
It's the end of the season, he said.
Go easier now, he said.

One thing leads to another, very lucky it didn't give way.

 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,549
Welp, here’s what I wrote on Strava

Just a comedy of errors here. No idea if the gps missed it or what, but 495 was closed for an exit and made me 45 minutes late, which meant I took my inhaler way too close to the race and I had a rushed practice lap and no other warm up. I was already coughing before the race started and my one lap was off pace to finish in the same lap as the winner so I just called it. A lot of climbs on this course so maybe not the best for a first try, but it is what it is. I will keep fighting! Another race next Saturday.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,549
Wow, everyone in this 4/5 men’s race is getting blown out by a 13 year old.

edit: wait, something happened elsewhere on the course and an over 40 rider made a big move and went ahead. 13 yo still kicking butt tho.
 
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Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,549
There were a few people with covered rear wheels yesterday, which I found kind of odd. It didn’t help this guy.

 

Hitmeneer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
103
As the weather here in Italy has quickly changed from a scorching 35 degree to a fresh 15-20 degrees, I am looking for a new long sleeved jersey for road cycling (mostly in the Tuscan hills).

- I recently bought the Svolta jersey by Santini , but it has thermofleece inside and it is still too warm to wear (last Saturday I was sweating a lot on the climbs, probably better for between 8-15°C). So I am searching for something between a fleeced jersey and a normal summer jersey (temp range 15-20 °C). Anyone has a suggestion? I checked Rapha, but I hate their product structure (too many products and different lines) and they don't place any temp ranges for their clothing. Any other brand suggestion?

- I came across the brand Pas Normal Studios for some winter stuff (jacket + bibs) and I really like their look. Does anyone have experience with this brand?
 

ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,018
As the weather here in Italy has quickly changed from a scorching 35 degree to a fresh 15-20 degrees, I am looking for a new long sleeved jersey for road cycling (mostly in the Tuscan hills).

- I recently bought the Svolta jersey by Santini , but it has thermofleece inside and it is still too warm to wear (last Saturday I was sweating a lot on the climbs, probably better for between 8-15°C). So I am searching for something between a fleeced jersey and a normal summer jersey (temp range 15-20 °C). Anyone has a suggestion? I checked Rapha, but I hate their product structure (too many products and different lines) and they don't place any temp ranges for their clothing. Any other brand suggestion?

- I came across the brand Pas Normal Studios for some winter stuff (jacket + bibs) and I really like their look. Does anyone have experience with this brand?
I have a jersey that is perfect for that, but it's by Cannondale and they stopped making their own clothes a few years ago. :(

Pearl Izumi lists temperature ranges for a lot of their clothing. I've also found that layering clothes helps a lot and it lets you make game time decisions. I'll even wear my fleeced sleeves and an Under Armor base layer under my light long sleeve jersey to keep warm.
 

studyguy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,002
Got bucked going through a rock garden this weekend, thought I had it. The new pedals def improve grip a ton, but one mean bump on the back left my foot in the air and it was ogre. Group told me I have to pick my lines better and try and slow down on a hard tail since I don't have the suspension in the back to save my ass. Feel like I suck at judging when to brake at the moment.

Got a nice scrape along my ass as a reward
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,549
LOL, just to add insult to injury it looks like none of the photographers caught me on Saturday. Looks like it’s going to rain this week, so next race may be very muddy. The race itself is also likely to be rainy and cold.
 

cdViking

Member
Oct 28, 2017
102
Just started commuting in to work here in Seattle. Awkward time to start (we just started getting daily storms), but better late than never.

First impression is me asking myself why I haven't been doing this for years. It's relatively simple/safe to get to downtown via the Burke and the Elliot Bay trail, it's a solid 1.5 hours of riding round trip (implying 7.5 hours of weekday riding), and it's a grand total of 5-10mins slower than my bus commute from door-to-desk (or vice versa). Coolest part of the commuting is being able to justify getting a new bike due to the combined $10-$12/day in saved bus fare and gas. PIcked up a 2018 Specialized Sequoia and have been loving it. It's definitely heavy (esp when combined with my large body and a backpack), but it's a joy to ride.

Getting a power meter to ensure I'm not pushing too hard everyday, but it means I can legitimately start endurance athletic training again. The last time I was truly fit was August 2014 when I was into TTs and triathlons, and the prospect of reliably getting training in no matter nuts the work week gets is very exciting.
 

kris.

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,638
I haven't been on a bike in well over a decade but I wanted to get one to start riding to the grocery store, start using my car a little less. Found a decent Magna on FB Marketplace for $30, just needed some air in the tires. I've been on it twice just riding around the neighborhood for 5-10 minutes and both times I walk back into my apartment DRENCHED in sweat. My legs feel like I've done 100 squats. I'm so fucking out of shape. Just gonna take it nice and slow and ease back into biking haha.
 

cdViking

Member
Oct 28, 2017
102
Welcome to the club!

Don't be afraid to use all of the gears available to you. It can be so easy to lose track of how hard you really are going, especially on smaller gradients (2%-3%) where it doesn't visually look like you're climbing. Also check to see if both wheels spin freely when you're off the bike. If not, it's possible they're rubbing against the brakes, which would make your ride a lot more challenging!
 

kris.

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,638
Thanks! Yeah, I've been messing with the gears to see what works on what kind of incline. Tires definitely spin freely, I had to deflate the back one because the tread wasn't set properly on the wheel so it was spinning really weirdly. I actually think it might need new brakes because the stock ones are trash. Takes me a bit to actually come to a full stop. Either way, I'm excited to actually get into this. I missed being on a bike.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
Just started commuting in to work here in Seattle. Awkward time to start (we just started getting daily storms), but better late than never.

First impression is me asking myself why I haven't been doing this for years. It's relatively simple/safe to get to downtown via the Burke and the Elliot Bay trail, it's a solid 1.5 hours of riding round trip (implying 7.5 hours of weekday riding), and it's a grand total of 5-10mins slower than my bus commute from door-to-desk (or vice versa). Coolest part of the commuting is being able to justify getting a new bike due to the combined $10-$12/day in saved bus fare and gas. PIcked up a 2018 Specialized Sequoia and have been loving it. It's definitely heavy (esp when combined with my large body and a backpack), but it's a joy to ride.

Getting a power meter to ensure I'm not pushing too hard everyday, but it means I can legitimately start endurance athletic training again. The last time I was truly fit was August 2014 when I was into TTs and triathlons, and the prospect of reliably getting training in no matter nuts the work week gets is very exciting.
Power meter is overkill for this. Could probably use aHR monitor as a supplement
 

bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,261
Yeah, an HR monitor would be a more sensible starting point (and far, far cheaper than a power meter).
 

Hitmeneer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
103
Yeah, an HR monitor would be a more sensible starting point (and far, far cheaper than a power meter).
I agree and a HR monitor is actually a better way to measure your effort than a power meter (because in the end, your HR will determin how hard it was to deliver a certain amount of power). And like everyone already said, a power meter is reeeeeeeaaaaaaaaally expensive (unfortunately).
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
I agree and a HR monitor is actually a better way to measure your effort than a power meter (because in the end, your HR will determin how hard it was to deliver a certain amount of power). And like everyone already said, a power meter is reeeeeeeaaaaaaaaally expensive (unfortunately).
Yes and no. HR will measure your body’s effort but it won’t accuratel measure power because it’s simply reading your heart. And all of us have variations in perceived effort and our heart rate. Someone could be at 180 and comfortable but someone at 150 is exhausted. The power meter creates a more neutral point of measurement.
 

Hitmeneer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
103
Yes and no. HR will measure your body’s effort but it won’t accuratel measure power because it’s simply reading your heart. And all of us have variations in perceived effort and our heart rate. Someone could be at 180 and comfortable but someone at 150 is exhausted. The power meter creates a more neutral point of measurement.
But your power curve will change over time, while HR stays the same for a certain person. I mean when I started cycling my average power for a medium intensity ride would be 100W, while now I am probably at 150W for the same intensity. My average heart rate for both rides should be the same in case the intensity is the same. (your heart gets stronger, so you are able to generate more power with the same HR).
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
But your power curve will change over time, while HR stays the same for a certain person. I mean when I started cycling my average power for a medium intensity ride would be 100W, while now I am probably at 150W for the same intensity. My average heart rate for both rides should be the same in case the intensity is the same. (your heart gets stronger, so you are able to generate more power with the same HR).
You have a power meter though which is allowing you to properly correlate your zone efforts to a heart rate measurement. And as you noted your power will fluxtuate, and so does your heart rate. Hitting 150 bpm with a FTP of 120 is very different than with a FTP of 200. So unless you have a way to line the numbers up you can't just go "Well I'm in zone 4 because I was at 180bpm", further there is no real baseline metric for HR since all our bodies are different. You can get there but not without properly collecting data and analyzing it.

The joke of "zone 3" training is a thing because of this very reason. Many people think they're working hard but they're just sitting in zone 3 and not actually entertaining that next zone. It's because with just a HRM a lone we don't know how to properly mark out our zones. Anerobically I may be gassing at 160BPM and think I'm in zone 4 ->5, but without a way to measure power output I have no way to accurately know.
 
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ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,018
I'll echo the sentiment that both the HRM and the power meter are useful for different things. Your heart rate reacts more slowly to exertion than a power meter. I know that when my heart rate hits 180, I can't sustain that for long. But when I'm going up a hill, it takes a little while for my heart rate to get up to that level. But with my power meter, I know that I can maintain 240 to 260W for most hills, and the power meter is instantaneous. It gets so easy to dial in effort. That's probably the opposite of "training", but when I'm on a group ride going for 75 to 100mi, I want to make sure I'm not burning up all my matches in one go.

I can actually see why there are calls to have power meters removed from racing. It does get very easy to dial in your effort, even for a recreational cyclist like me.
 

Hitmeneer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
103
You have a power meter though which is allowing you to properly correlate your zone efforts to a heart rate measurement. And as you noted your power will fluxtuate, and so does your heart rate. Hitting 150 bpm with a FTP of 120 is very different than with a FTP of 200. So unless you have a way to line the numbers up you can't just go "Well I'm in zone 4 because I was at 180bpm", further there is no real baseline metric for HR since all our bodies are different. You can get there but not without properly collecting data and analyzing it.

The joke of "zone 3" training is a thing because of this very reason. Many people think they're working hard but they're just sitting in zone 3 and not actually entertaining that next zone. It's because with just a HRM a lone we don't know how to properly mark out our zones. Anerobically I may be gassing at 160BPM and think I'm in zone 4 ->5, but without a way to measure power output I have no way to accurately know.
Sorry, but I think I misread the original post. I thought he didn't want to push too hard in going to work (and as a result arriving completely dead at work). However, you are of course right that a power meter is more powerful and more precise for your training.
 

Lonely1

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,194
This is what I know after a year of rides of varying intensity.
  • I can maintain a HR of 150-160bpm for long periods of time (>4hrs).
  • I can maintain a HR of 160-170bpm for about 1 hour and maybe up to two hours.
I don't have a power meter, so I only have Strava estimates, which some people say that are worthless. But according to Strava, the 150-160bpm is 220ish Watts.

I's going for long (4+ hours) 150-160bpm rides every weekend a Zone 3 trap!? I think that at what would improve my results now is losing weight, but damn if it isn't hard plus I don't want to lose muscle... :S
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
At that point you might want to consider a hard tail mob or a good hybrid. I guess that riding position is just more natural for some people but if I’m on that much terrain I want easy control not drop bars.
The newer wider sweep back bars provide a lot more control, especially coupled with a shorter steam. The one in the picture looks like an 80mm
 

Skel1ingt0n

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,185
Welp, I completely underestimated how fast the sun actually sets - but wife and I ended up turning an ~8 mile family bike ride with baby in the wagon to a 17 mile affair. Longest bike ride I've ever done. I know it's peanuts to many... but three weeks ago I was doing 4-5 miles and was happy I was getting a couple 8mi rides under my belt. 17 felt real hard, but I did it. Thinking if I could get a 20 mile ride in before the winter hits too hard...
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
Welp, I completely underestimated how fast the sun actually sets - but wife and I ended up turning an ~8 mile family bike ride with baby in the wagon to a 17 mile affair. Longest bike ride I've ever done. I know it's peanuts to many... but three weeks ago I was doing 4-5 miles and was happy I was getting a couple 8mi rides under my belt. 17 felt real hard, but I did it. Thinking if I could get a 20 mile ride in before the winter hits too hard...
That’s great! How was hauling a wagon for that time?
 

Skel1ingt0n

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,185
That’s great! How was hauling a wagon for that time?

My wife is much more fit than me, so she did the pulling. First time on a real bike in a while for her, too - but she did Cyclebar for years and then we got a Peloton she uses a couple times a week for the last ~year. She said the hills were pretty killer - especially the longer, more gradual inclines. But she only failed to crest once in those 17 miles with a 10+ year old cheap-ish mountain bike.

Only oddity about the wagon is becuase of how it anchors, it's not "centered" behind you - it's like a little more to the left... which makes it hard to navigate on very tight bike paths on the vehicle bridges with barrier to your left and fence to your right. And we did hit a couple bumps a little too fast that we'll slow down for next time. But otherwise, the Burley wagon itself was great for a hand-me-down. No real issues.
 

cdViking

Member
Oct 28, 2017
102
Power meter is overkill for this. Could probably use aHR monitor as a supplement
It was discussed ad nauseum after your post, but while I agree that an HRM is a good starting point, I've already got that and am going with the PM so I can precisely measure the training impact of the rides. My recorded TSS scores from commutes have been silly high lol. Plus even though I'm out of shape, I have a very low heart rate that doesn't spike until it's too late.
 

cdViking

Member
Oct 28, 2017
102
This is what I know after a year of rides of varying intensity.
  • I can maintain a HR of 150-160bpm for long periods of time (>4hrs).
  • I can maintain a HR of 160-170bpm for about 1 hour and maybe up to two hours.
I don't have a power meter, so I only have Strava estimates, which some people say that are worthless. But according to Strava, the 150-160bpm is 220ish Watts.

I's going for long (4+ hours) 150-160bpm rides every weekend a Zone 3 trap!? I think that at what would improve my results now is losing weight, but damn if it isn't hard plus I don't want to lose muscle... :S
I'm less experienced with using HR for setting training targets (all hail the almighty watt), but my runner friends use 90% of their lactate threshold HR (roughly hour max) as their Z2 ceiling. Assuming your 1 hour max is 170 and your long rides are at 150, you're right on the cusp b/w Z2 and Z3. Anything more and you'd be creeping into Z3, though I would look up a testing protocol to establish a threshold value.

In my experience, if you're truly going Z3 for 4 hours and it makes up a big % of your weekly riding, you're putting yourself in a pretty big fatigue hole and you open yourself up to potential sickness/injury. An alternative would be to mix some 2 or 3 20' intervals at Z4 (approximately your threshold HR) and go the rest of the way easy.

In any case you're almost certainly gaining fitness with a long Z3 ride (unless you don't ever sleep/recover), though you might not be optimizing those gains. However, the baseline requirement for fitness gains is to train at all, so go out there and do the ride and figure out the effort level that's going to keep you doing the ride consistently. I know people who are mentally incapable of Z1-Z2'ing for more than an hour, so if Z3 is what takes to keep you interested and motivated, just go for it.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,549
Welp, the struggles continue. I didn’t realize I had dropped a chain during a run up, hopped back on the bike and the race was over in the first lap. I needed to remove the crank to get the chain out. On the positive side I got to use my crank puller for the first time and turned it with my pedal wrench.

Also, holy crap wood chips are slippery.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
Welp, the struggles continue. I didn’t realize I had dropped a chain during a run up, hopped back on the bike and the race was over in the first lap. I needed to remove the crank to get the chain out. On the positive side I got to use my crank puller for the first time and turned it with my pedal wrench.

Also, holy crap wood chips are slippery.
what tires are you using?
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,549
ah ok. I running Vitoria Terreno Dry and they’ve been gripping everything but I’m also tubeless and running 38.
I mean with the wood chips there’s really not a lot to grip - they are piled and loose and shift when you apply force. So if you go through a turn with any amount of speed you’re going to slide. The question is how much. I handled the first part of the S turn and then took a dive turning the opposite direction.

If I wasn’t super bummed I probably would have had the presence of mind to stick around and watch other riders go through and see what line they were taking/how fast/if they were putting a foot down.

on the positive side my mounts and dismounts were decent.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
I mean with the wood chips there’s really not a lot to grip - they are piled and loose and shift when you apply force. So if you go through a turn with any amount of speed you’re going to slide. The question is how much. I handled the first part of the S turn and then took a dive turning the opposite direction.

If I wasn’t super bummed I probably would have had the presence of mind to stick around and watch other riders go through and see what line they were taking/how fast/if they were putting a foot down.

on the positive side my mounts and dismounts were decent.
good to hear about your dismounts!
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,549
good to hear about your dismounts!
here’s the course. The place where I dropped my chain is around 6 minutes. Of course these guys just rode up it LOL. I only had one practice lap and didn’t realize there was a line (or if I could ride it :P). The wood chip parts are under the barns. These guys did fine, although you see one guy put a foot down. There’s a different video where you see a guy wipe out.

 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,549
So, cleaning question. Since I pulled my crank off I figured I’d give it a good cleaning before putting it back on. Should I do anything to the open bottom bracket besides make sure there’s no debris in there? I assume I should make sure no water gets in?