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Bicycle ERA |OT| This Is Why

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,548
Maybe you need a different seat?
This is the first saddle (out of four attempts) I’ve been able to ride pain free on on the road. On the trainer it seems to be a different story...

I would like to try a completely flat saddle tho. It’s a shape I haven’t tried yet and seems like it might be what I need, as this saddle is close but has a raised rear end.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
Leveling out my bike on the trainer has helped in some ways but is still troublesome. My sitbones are feeling ok but I’m having a lot of soft tissue pain.

It’s kind of funny, because the trainer road notes are always talking about getting your pelvis more vertical, but that is absolutely what I can’t do. Sitting on the pointy part of my sitbones is painful - I sit with my pelvis tilted forward so weight is spread along more of my sitbones.

When I was getting pain down the middle I was actually able to get some relief by pedaling in the drops, with my body angled even more forward. Who knows, I’ll need to do some research.

Workout was rough today, 3x20 minute sweet spot. I took some short breaks to get blood back in my junk, but I did manage to stave off the urge to quit.
riding on a trainer always sucks, no matter what

have you gone to a legit fitter yet, i forget?
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,548
riding on a trainer always sucks, no matter what

have you gone to a legit fitter yet, i forget?
yeah, I had a $400 fit on that bike :/

Did the outside ride on the gravel bike today and it’s just so much more comfortable. I think the reach is significantly shorter on that bike but I don’t know if that is a big factor here. Saddle height and setback are the same on the two bikes. (which is the one from my fitting. I actually had a GURU fitting on the gravel bike but found that the saddle height was way too low).
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
yeah, I had a $400 fit on that bike :/

Did the outside ride on the gravel bike today and it’s just so much more comfortable. I think the reach is significantly shorter on that bike but I don’t know if that is a big factor here. Saddle height and setback are the same on the two bikes. (which is the one from my fitting. I actually had a GURU fitting on the gravel bike but found that the saddle height was way too low).
why not measure and compare them then? Measure the saddle to stem, setback etc. you may very well have different stems and angle, saddle to bar drop, etc.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,548
why not measure and compare them then? Measure the saddle to stem, setback etc. you may very well have different stems and angle, saddle to bar drop, etc.
I'll take a look this week to see the differences.

OK, clothing report! Average temp on the ride was about 39 degrees F. I wore the jersey, base layer and thermal bibs as mentioned, plus balaclava, gloves and liners and shoe covers.

Moving a lot between woods and road sections made things a little interesting. Slower speeds in the woods meant no wind and things were pretty comfortable there. On the road however, wind was surprisingly getting through both layers. It wasn't unbearable, but it wasn't ideal. However, it wouldn't be practical to keep adding and removing a layer like a windbreaker or vest, so I'll have to think about that. Based on the fact that my hands got too warm (I took off my liners which then made my hands a little colder than I wanted, but it was better than overheating) and my butt was sweating, I think having the extra layer in the woods would be too warm.

Head, face and feet were pretty good, I didn't think about them much. Again, on the road I did feel a little chill in the toes. I definitely think If it was a road ride I would wear a windbreaker and some additional help for my legs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
One thing to remember is you never want to be warm on the bike. The stuff is meant to just help pass air through and keep you dry. You might find that a straight wind vest is all you need to keep that barrier.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,548
One thing to remember is you never want to be warm on the bike. The stuff is meant to just help pass air through and keep you dry. You might find that a straight wind vest is all you need to keep that barrier.
yeah, it’s kind of a fine line between cold and uncomfortable. I’ll experiment on next weekend’s ride.

BTW, the ride shop was going to loan me a flat fizik saddle to try out but they didn’t have any handy for people with wide sitbones 😭
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
After i got my bike built i went back to my bike fitter to get re-dialed in and since then i was struggling to take pressure off my hands. No matter what, after 2 hours I would feel a lot of pressure and numbness. Since going back on the trainer it was even more noticeable because you never damn move. So i kept tweaking saddle up, down, forward, back all with mm of my retul measurements.

Then I finally remembered; they dropped my stem 5mm which ended being a 1CM total drop between my old bike and newer bike (110 -7 vs 90 -6). I bumped it back 5mm and everything feels MUCH more comfortable so far.
 

FondsNL

Member
Oct 29, 2017
688
After i got my bike built i went back to my bike fitter to get re-dialed in and since then i was struggling to take pressure off my hands. No matter what, after 2 hours I would feel a lot of pressure and numbness. Since going back on the trainer it was even more noticeable because you never damn move. So i kept tweaking saddle up, down, forward, back all with mm of my retul measurements.

Then I finally remembered; they dropped my stem 5mm which ended being a 1CM total drop between my old bike and newer bike (110 -7 vs 90 -6). I bumped it back 5mm and everything feels MUCH more comfortable so far.
Yeah dropping your stem does A LOT to your hands/ wrists and elbows.
You're more inclined to ride with locked out or extended elbow, your wrists are angled more + there is more pressure on your hands.
All resulting in more pressure on the nerves along that entire chain of movement.

When I've got patients with complaints of numbness because of cycling the first thing I tend to check is how "slammed" their position is and working from there. I'd rather change that position than starting from the saddle.
 

HTupolev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
769
Finally started work on the new bike.

HED Belgium+ 650b rims



CX-Ray Spokes



RS770 Hubs



Applying grease to the rim drillings...



Spokes prepared, black brass nipples.



Laced, 3-cross front and rear.





I still need to tension and true them, waiting for a bladed spoke holder tool.

Set came to 1569g, or 1639g with the thru axles. Not bad.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
Yeah dropping your stem does A LOT to your hands/ wrists and elbows.
You're more inclined to ride with locked out or extended elbow, your wrists are angled more + there is more pressure on your hands.
All resulting in more pressure on the nerves along that entire chain of movement.

When I've got patients with complaints of numbness because of cycling the first thing I tend to check is how "slammed" their position is and working from there. I'd rather change that position than starting from the saddle.
the entire time I was fighting positioning but I wish I thought of this before the winter, but at the same time doing this on the trainer is a lot easier. whats was interesting is when measuring saddle to bar drop they were within 3 to 4mm to each other but I guess it’s far more noticeable with the geo change; contact points are all the same but the angle of stem may point more severe drop
 

LJ11

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,213
TarpitCarnivore did you use Jonathan Blyer over @ ACME to do your fit? I get some neck pain after about 25+ miles, think it may be due to a previous injury that really impinged on a nerve that would numb my entire left arm right down to the fingers, shoulder blade felt all fucked along with my rib cage. Thought I might have thoracic outlet, but with rest everything healed up, I don't want to inflame things again so I've been thinking about getting a fit through ACME, many recommend Jon.

How was your experience with him? Did he take a serious look at your feet, recommend orthotics? Think my right leg may be slightly shorter than my left, would have never realized until I started to cycle more, can feel it slightly due to more saddle pressure on the right side. Anyway, your thoughts would be appreciated, you can PM me if you want to keep it out of the thread. See folks recommending him online, but getting feedback from someone who has experience with him would be great.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
TarpitCarnivore did you use Jonathan Blyer over @ ACME to do your fit? I get some neck pain after about 25+ miles, think it may be due to a previous injury that really impinged on a nerve that would numb my entire left arm right down to the fingers, shoulder blade felt all fucked along with my rib cage. Thought I might have thoracic outlet, but with rest everything healed up, I don't want to inflame things again so I've been thinking about getting a fit through ACME, many recommend Jon.

How was your experience with him? Did he take a serious look at your feet, recommend orthotics? Think my right leg may be slightly shorter than my left, would have never realized until I started to cycle more, can feel it slightly due to more saddle pressure on the right side. Anyway, your thoughts would be appreciated, you can PM me if you want to keep it out of the thread. See folks recommending him online, but getting feedback from someone who has experience with him would be great.
Hey, I did and wrote up my experience about it. I was in a similar spot to you where all of sudden riding a bike hurt a lot and i was trying new saddles, stems, etc. I researched around on finding fitters and came across some bike fit certification directory and Acme was the only place near me that didn't didn't double as a bike shop; I was trying to avoid certified bike shops because I didn't want to end up being told "hey buy a new bike" or "here buy $300 in parts". I just wanted someone to fit me on a bike.

This Gizmodo article w/ video also helped sell me on Acme https://gizmodo.com/the-ocd-science-behind-a-perfect-fitting-bike-5924940

Onto the process:

First was an interview on what I'm looking for, what's bothering me, and what have I tried.

After that was getting on the bike to look at mechanics and then into a physio type exam: walk in a line, stand straight, get on a table to check hip movement, all that stuff. I ended up trying an orthodic and i liked them so I kept them.

Next was him putting my bike saddle onto GURU bike and setting it up based on my existing set up. From there it was trying different saddle options (this is SUPER easy there with the way they have the system set up, basically just a QR on/off) and they have a TON from Specialized, Brooks, Fabric, Selle SMP, Ergon, Fizik and maybe a few others. Obv they have their preferences based on customer experience (I went from Fabric to Ergon). Once a saddle is decided on they begin to adjust the fit through Guru by incrementally adjusting things: height, reach, fore/aft. My end result was a slight up tick in saddle height and a longer stem (I was on 80, needed 110).

Finally they set you up for retul and measure everything to asses it from a movement aspect. Since I had a slight hip turn (my right hip dips) I'm not perfectly balanced and thus when pedaling my feet are not even in length (likely the same as you), so my one knee tracks a little wonky. Again, all OK things by his measurement because it's a pretty common problem with a lot of enthusiast riders and he said he only knew of ONE rider to ever fully fix it; they basically stopped riding for an entire year and focused 100% on correcting it.

They'll email you a fit chart at the end with all your measurements which I then used to get my frame built.
 

bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,261
Yeah dropping your stem does A LOT to your hands/ wrists and elbows.
You're more inclined to ride with locked out or extended elbow, your wrists are angled more + there is more pressure on your hands.
All resulting in more pressure on the nerves along that entire chain of movement.

When I've got patients with complaints of numbness because of cycling the first thing I tend to check is how "slammed" their position is and working from there. I'd rather change that position than starting from the saddle.
I feel like a lot of people slam the shit out of their position because they've been told it's the "pro" way to play, and then struggle because the pros tend to be a lot more flexible than your average punter :)
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
I feel like a lot of people slam the shit out of their position because they've been told it's the "pro" way to play, and then struggle because the pros tend to be a lot more flexible than your average punter :)
It's more than flexibility though, it's a lot of core strength. I'm more the flexible to slam my stem but i have shit core so it becomes a lot of stress to stay up.
 

LJ11

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,213
Hey, I did and wrote up my experience about it. I was in a similar spot to you where all of sudden riding a bike hurt a lot and i was trying new saddles, stems, etc. I researched around on finding fitters and came across some bike fit certification directory and Acme was the only place near me that didn't didn't double as a bike shop; I was trying to avoid certified bike shops because I didn't want to end up being told "hey buy a new bike" or "here buy $300 in parts". I just wanted someone to fit me on a bike.

This Gizmodo article w/ video also helped sell me on Acme https://gizmodo.com/the-ocd-science-behind-a-perfect-fitting-bike-5924940

Onto the process:

First was an interview on what I'm looking for, what's bothering me, and what have I tried.

After that was getting on the bike to look at mechanics and then into a physio type exam: walk in a line, stand straight, get on a table to check hip movement, all that stuff. I ended up trying an orthodic and i liked them so I kept them.

Next was him putting my bike saddle onto GURU bike and setting it up based on my existing set up. From there it was trying different saddle options (this is SUPER easy there with the way they have the system set up, basically just a QR on/off) and they have a TON from Specialized, Brooks, Fabric, Selle SMP, Ergon, Fizik and maybe a few others. Obv they have their preferences based on customer experience (I went from Fabric to Ergon). Once a saddle is decided on they begin to adjust the fit through Guru by incrementally adjusting things: height, reach, fore/aft. My end result was a slight up tick in saddle height and a longer stem (I was on 80, needed 110).

Finally they set you up for retul and measure everything to asses it from a movement aspect. Since I had a slight hip turn (my right hip dips) I'm not perfectly balanced and thus when pedaling my feet are not even in length (likely the same as you), so my one knee tracks a little wonky. Again, all OK things by his measurement because it's a pretty common problem with a lot of enthusiast riders and he said he only knew of ONE rider to ever fully fix it; they basically stopped riding for an entire year and focused 100% on correcting it.

They'll email you a fit chart at the end with all your measurements which I then used to get my frame built.
Thanks dude, appreciate you taking the time out to write this up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
Aye, sorry, should have been more specific. Regardless, people try to copy the pros when it's not necessarily sensible to do so.
No need for sorry, was expanding your thought

Thanks dude, appreciate you taking the time out to write this up.
No problem, good luck if you do it. It's a lot but for me I was fighting trying to be comfortable for a year and I knew i wanted a new bike so it was a no brainer. I think my session came close to being 4 hours? The one downside of it all might be depending on where you are it could be annoying to get too. It's in Gowanus by all the warehouses and construction, so each time I had to take the ferry over from NJ and then ride my bike. Driving was 100% out of the quesiton.
 

bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,261
I have a Bolt and it has been fantastic. I don't need the extra navigation features of the Roam. I know there are plenty of people who swear by Garmins, but there are also plenty of people who swear about them ;)
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,548
36 degree average temp for today’s ride. Went without glove liners, which actually helped because my hands didnt sweat. Wore my windbreaker (I know I said I was going to wear my vest - things happen) but took it off after a few miles. Felt good overall. Not a lot of fast open road travel/wind, though.

so I took a look at the measurements on my bikes. Surprisingly, the reach is a few cms longer to the stem and hoods on my more comfortable bike.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
36 degree average temp for today’s ride. Went without glove liners, which actually helped because my hands didnt sweat. Wore my windbreaker (I know I said I was going to wear my vest - things happen) but took it off after a few miles. Felt good overall. Not a lot of fast open road travel/wind, though.

so I took a look at the measurements on my bikes. Surprisingly, the reach is a few cms longer to the stem and hoods on my more comfortable bike.
A few CM is a lot. 1/2 to 1 is usually around when you begin to find discomforts, but at a few cm then I’m going to say that’s a major problem. It also doesn’t totally surprise me because saddle discomfort is usually height or reach.

Do you have a stem you can swap too? How big of a change are we talking here?
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,548
A few CM is a lot. 1/2 to 1 is usually around when you begin to find discomforts, but at a few cm then I’m going to say that’s a major problem. It also doesn’t totally surprise me because saddle discomfort is usually height or reach.

Do you have a stem you can swap too? How big of a change are we talking here?
just want to make sure you caught that the longer reach is on the more comfortable bike, which is what confused me.

if so, the stem is less of a difference, it’s actually the depth of the handlebars. I guess a longer stem could make up for both

Looks like the gravel bike has an 80mm stem and the road bike has a 100mm stem, so more confusion there. Tomorrow I’ll look up actual specs on the Internet to get to the bottom of it.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
12,043
just want to make sure you caught that the longer reach is on the more comfortable bike, which is what confused me.

if so, the stem is less of a difference, it’s actually the depth of the handlebars. I guess a longer stem could make up for both
Handle bars can have reach variation but often you use a stem to extend or shorted.

The longer reach being comfortable makes sense because that was my exact problem. I was pushing myself back into the seat. I wasn’t able to get my hips to rotate and my body extend. Instead I was pushing myself back and more upright into the seat.

Discomfort from too long of a reach is usually in the form of back, hand and neck pain.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,548
Handle bars can have reach variation but often you use a stem to extend or shorted.

The longer reach being comfortable makes sense because that was my exact problem. I was pushing myself back into the seat. I wasn’t able to get my hips to rotate and my body extend. Instead I was pushing myself back and more upright into the seat.

Discomfort from too long of a reach is usually in the form of back, hand and neck pain.
interesting, I’ll get more accurate measurements tomorrow.