If you accept that the capital class will repeatedly use their influence to corrupt and influence governments to rescind regulations or tax cuts to gain more wealth, talk of "limiting" or "regulating" capitalism equates to half-stepping.
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Biden : "500 billionares arent the reason we're in trouble"
- Thread starter Inuhanyou
- Start date
If you accept that the capital class will repeatedly use their influence to corrupt and influence governments to rescind regulations or tax cuts to gain more wealth, talk of "limiting" or "regulating" capitalism equates to half-stepping.
What is the better option? I can accept that corruption exist as long as it is punishable. In Sweden as an example it is forbidden to lobby for your cause.
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Those billionaires are a huge part of the problem. They are the ones flooding DC with lawyers, lobbyists and money to constantly skew the rules in their favor. The one thing they fear more than anything is getting the money out of Washington. They wouldn't so readily part with their money there if they knew it wasn't going to pay off. You got folks in DC right now who don't want to talk to the public in town halls but will do back flips and parkour the second big money wants a word with them. They are probably scared shitless of publicly funded candidates because their money means fucking nothing and they have to get in line like everyone else. "Corporations are people too" bullshit came from them.
Remember all those people who hated Clinton, loved Obama and would have preferred Biden on GAF/ERA?
This is pretty close what Biden is saying. He isn't interested in stoking the us vs them mentality to drum up votes. In a way it's stronger to say "the system has failed" than to say "it's specifically these guys who are to blame"
Put Biden in a hoveround and never let him speak again.
The culture of living for market value above all value, yaknow, the framework that would allow even 500 billionaires to have a world catered to their interests, is precisely the framework that is burning the planet and fueling inequality.
This is almost as dumb as Nancy Pelosi's remark that "shareholder capitalism" is the problem. No. It's neoliberal capitalism, which is America's take on the formula, which it exports to the whole planet as "The Way to Do Things". Only caring for the market and market value is specifically the reason we are where we are in terms of problems.
We can blame the 500 people, but we also blame each and everyone who justified, justifies, and rationalizes the cancer we're currently living with.
The culture of living for market value above all value, yaknow, the framework that would allow even 500 billionaires to have a world catered to their interests, is precisely the framework that is burning the planet and fueling inequality.
This is almost as dumb as Nancy Pelosi's remark that "shareholder capitalism" is the problem. No. It's neoliberal capitalism, which is America's take on the formula, which it exports to the whole planet as "The Way to Do Things". Only caring for the market and market value is specifically the reason we are where we are in terms of problems.
We can blame the 500 people, but we also blame each and everyone who justified, justifies, and rationalizes the cancer we're currently living with.
But those billionaires perpetuate and take advantage of that system to make mor emoney
As long as people are allowed to accumulate wealth, there will be corruption of the political process. Anything that challenges the power or status of the capitalists will be subject to prohibition or regulation - like how unions are subject to stringent regulation, despite how the capitalist class claim to be in favour of small government. They are totally in favour of regulation that is in their interest. It's the process of accumulation itself that is the problem.
If you can't accept that has to change, the only view is the fatalism of 'there'll always be wealthy people'; if you don't believe things can really change what's the point of politics?
The billionaires are the beneficiaries of the system that has failed, and they use that wealth to continue to lobby for its preservation. It's fair to say they are part of the problem. If any of them choose to come out and admit that the inequality they benefit from is a problem and they want things to change, then they can be part of the solution.
I can't tell if you're meming, but it is fair to say that there are bankers who should probably have been prosecuted for things that occurred around the financial crash of '08. Iceland investigated and prosecuted where appropriate, and even ended up writing off most of their debts. I wouldn't call it crimes against humanity though.
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No, it's not. It's a cowardly cop-out. The "us vs. them mentality" is all that matters in class warfare. They're the enemy, and they need to be taken down. This "the system has failed" bullshit is what led Obama to bail the banks out and actually reward them when they should've been individually persecuted and stripped clean for their crimes against humanity.
He is not wrong. Middle class is the bigger problem.
Their voting power to preserve their massively subsidized way of life is hugely detrimental to civilization and the planet.
Their voting power to preserve their massively subsidized way of life is hugely detrimental to civilization and the planet.
If what it takes is to give Capitalism a face to punch, then I'm for it. Biden clearly isn't but I can see where he's coming from. Call it civility politics if you want, I'm not a fan but I get it
What Biden is displaying isn't civility politics, though. That's my point. He's not interested in being courteous - he's interested in disarming the rightful anger people feel towards the 1% in his effort to protect that 1%. Those are his politics, and that of the Democrat establishment.
That's the reason why the DNC seemingly always has such a hard time capitalizing on the resentment people have towards the rich, which theoretically is an incredibly easy task for progressives: they want that resentment gone as much as the GOP.
Isn't this what a lot of people actually believe? That poor people just aren't working as hard as Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk? Never mind that poor people often work longer and more jobs than most people overall.
I don't have a problem with wealth and wealthy people, just as long as they pay their fair share taxes and whatnot so other people can live great lifes.
Ethical billionaires don't exist. Nobody can accumulate that level of wealth and stay a moral person.
But you can have laws and regulation that force people to pay their share so people can have great lifes.
Fucking this. Biden needs to get the fuck out.
He really said that? Fuck Joe Biden then.
Not that I'm about to make a great argument, and this is just curiosity really.
What happens when "they" are eradicated? Or however you want to put it. If we won, what happens next? On a personal level, I don't like these corrupted rich people, and I wouldn't cry if they were gone, but what's a good next step?
Some form of socialism? Are we at that point in time to accept socialism? Are we even capable of making socialism work?
Are we going to move to a system that's not capitalism? But if not capital, would people really stop looking for something to put them in higher position over others? It was copper, iron, horses, salt, spices and such back in the old days, nothing much have changed, the item that grants one status is just called 'money'(or oil) in our current time.
Are we going to rid ourselves of the idea of classes?
I guess, however, even if we just replace the current rich old men with rich progressives, we could still salvage the planet and that's a good thing, but the system is indeed fucked. For as long as each of us seek to improve our own personal standing through something, we would just essentially be climbing on a snake and going back to an earlier square if this ...hmm. not sure if there's a better word, mentality isn't changed. A rich elite by any other name is still a rich elite, replacing one with another doesn't solve the problem, just delaying the inevitable. What is now considered progressives will become old and closed-minded in the future, and they're just as likely as these current generation of selfish rich billionaires are to do anything to keep themselves in power when it comes time for the generational shift.
Admittedly, I'm just a guy who make shitty doodle for a living(and not that great at it to boot) and play games for entertainment(not great at that either), so I don't know jack about what I'm saying, that's why like I said at the start, this is just me literally curious to know what's after "us vs them".
Everyone owes it to themselves to read Marx at least once.
Edit: I don't mean this as a slight, by the way. He should help you at least give you an idea of what comes after.
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...Evan Spiegel created a dick pic app that gained so much popularity, investors and the market deemed it worth "x valuation" and thus his share of the Company resulted in him becoming a billionaire by 25.
What immoral thing did he do outside of creating a popular app? (He's an asshole, but no more than any other millennial who grew up in LA)
Truthfully, it's scary that a reasonable and rational response is met with the level of contempt in this thread. But then again, I'm only rooting for the person who will get Trump out. Class warfare is a childish and infantile way to look at the world's problems but I digress. I agree in principle with what Joe said.
Biden though old is the type of democrat that could win a election though. Mostly because the media won't turn around and call him a socialist.
This statement isnt even close to the truth. Across the US they would be sending different politicians to Congress if a majority were as desperate or overall viewed billionaires as nothing but villians like you're implying. Most people dont blame business for taking the advantages they can, folk just want to be able to do the same things.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/5248/big-business.aspx
Like the "fuck you, got mine" mentality that drives their decisions in other areas of policy, its a selfishness that isnt purely antagonistic. Progressives are going to keep losing on the national stage if they dont develop an understanding who actually makes up the majority and their priorities.
i remember Bill Clinton talking about 2008 and those responsible for the financial crisis and saying something to the effect of "What did you want them/us to do? Hang them in the street?" id take that over bailing them out.
It is far more important to get to a point where it is impossible to accumulate such amount of wealth in the first place. Taxation and wealthfare-ism will incur transaction costs for the state and due to their wealth and influence rich people will either find or create means to dodge their tax burden. Instead we should focus on how to eliminate their rent-seeking behaviour, which people more down the food chain pay for, so normal workers get the real equivalent of their productivity paid out and don't have to subsidise the already rich.
I think saying they aren't "bad guys" is misguided since some well, are bad people.
I get that the problem isn't these individuals but the system that led us here. But some of them are perpetuating this system and thrive in it.
There are more problems that mega billionaires but it's not like these extreme gap isn't a problem and they are working to further it and not to help anyone else.
I get that the problem isn't these individuals but the system that led us here. But some of them are perpetuating this system and thrive in it.
There are more problems that mega billionaires but it's not like these extreme gap isn't a problem and they are working to further it and not to help anyone else.
if the only people who can win national elections in america are white supremacists and center-right civility fetishists then we're doomed and should be worrying more about trying to survive the coming apocalypse
He's not wrong, the so-called 1% are the tip of the iceberg and focusing on them alone is a foolish strategy that won't solve all our problems. Our problems go way down into the middle class and we can only get so far by not fundamentally changing the way our wealthier citizens acquire and use their financial resources. But it's still not really something worth saying, #notallbillionaires isn't exactly going to get people riled up and ready to vote. This kind of statement is the sort of thing that should be understood implicitly, saying it blatantly out loud does no one any favors
That Biden appears to be the Democratic Party's "top candidate" going into the 2020 election shows you just how behind the eight-ball they are. Anyone expecting this to be a total walk for the DNC, even after two years of Cheeto Mussolini, is in for a rude surprise.
Then what is your solution? I don't see why you ignore the progressive parts of the party that are trying to push Democrats to the left. It's like throwing your hands up and admitting defeat. What does that do to help us move toward a better future?
This is exactly it. Biden has never been a good candidate. The only thing he has going for him is that "have a beer with him" factor that I pray has finally met its end.
His stance on the issues has never been good. He has always been bought and sold by lobbyists. Stop pushing Biden.
I think you're confusing the Democrats view in this country with the registered Democrats on this forum. They don't see Biden the same way you do.
You want European middle in America and I don't think America wants Europeon anything
it's not about how i see biden. he is fundamentally conservative, in that he wants to largely preserve the structure of the government and economy without making any radical low-level changes to anything. he thinks reformist tinkering around the edges to make them a little smoother will do just fine.
that's not really a matter of opinion, it's clear every time he opens his mouth. if that's what democratic voters really want then we're absolutely fucked. radical change is desperately needed, and at this point in history political moderation is basically rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.
that's a problem though, isn't it? I don't think the American political system is equipped to deal with this