Biden administration is considering sending AstraZeneca vaccine doses to Canada and Mexico; 2.5 million going to Mexico, 1.5 million going to Canada
- Thread starter Taka
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We don't need to use them because Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J will cover everyone by summer, but those were also relatively recent developments. You wouldn't start doling out vaccines from one stockpile until you knew you were covered elsewhere.
Some of y'all are looking at the best case scenario coming true and basing your post-ex facto anger on that.
It was entirely possible the US wouldn't be able to produce enough of the other vaccines to match what was needed before the AZ vaccine got approval. At which point having given it all away would have been a pretty stupid move
It is because the US reached the point of not needing the extra 30 million doses that they can be distributed without worrying about coming up short.
It's nit hoarding when yoy have legitimate reason to believe you might need it and then get rid of it when you're sure you don't.
went back on forth on this before, no it is not. If the US can assure that if they have enough supply met by other manufacturers to vaccinate everyone, then sure export them over.
Give vaccines to Canada so they can open their border. I want to visit friends and family this summer.
I disagree. I understand the recent developments but the vaccine nationalism has to stop and we should immediately release vaccines that we won’t be immediately using. Back in December it was fine when all nations had just started approval vaccines but at this point we should let countries that want to use AstraZeneca if they want it. We are far ahead of other countries in getting our population vaccinated so we should let other countries get their vulnerable populations vaccinated
Edit: if this causes us to delay our timeline to vaccinate the entire population so be it
Do it, we absolutely should.
Also this isn't and wasn't vaccine hoarding. While the US has orders for vaccines from Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J -- enough orders to provide doses for every qualified American by May -- those vaccines don't exist, the paper and the promises exist, but the doses don't. These doses of AZ were manufactured in the United States, they're orders that the US Gov't has made with AZ. The American Government placed a $1.2b order with AstraZeneca last year for these doses (and more if needed), and AstraZeneca has actually failed to produce them (as others waiting for the AZ vaccine are aware)
Biden has said "If we have a surplus, we're going to share those vaccines with the rest of the world." Currently the US does not have a surplus, in fact, demand far exceeds supply, the US is about 4th in the world for vaccinations but there's no surplus. We have contracts for a surplus, but not actual doses for a surplus.
Based on how manufacturing has gone, and how the US government has paid for enough doses from Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J, I think the right thing to do is to release these AZ vaccines produced in the US to countries who have approved them.
Also general "US Vaccine hoarding thread" reminder that the US has more cases and more deaths than everywhere else in the world and despite this the US is by far the top contributor to COVAX, the global vaccination program. The Moderna vaccine was also funded by the US government, and while Pfizer did not received funding for development of it's vaccine, the US has paid for the production of those ~300m doses of the Pfizer vaccine.
The EU has not only not been negligent in securing vaccines for Europeans, but also far lags behind the United States in support of developing countries. For a year (and much longer) we've seen first hand at how horrible the American healthcare system is and how it underserves Americans, with plenty of scoffing and nose-thumbing from our European friends who chide us -- "why don't you just do it like us?" Trust us, we'd like to. But when it comes to trying to vaccinate the world, the EU is doing nothing ... but chiding others. The entire EU has contributed €870 to COVAX (the overwhelming majority of which has come from Germany), the global vaccine initiative for developing countries, and the United States has contributed $4b. I can't possibly imagine that if the shoe was on the other foot, like is had been from Feb 2020 to Jan 20, 2021, where the United States was a backwater of disease, death, and despair, that we'd get anything other than condescension from Europeans if the US continued to lag behind the rest of the developed world in COVID response.
Germany deserves praise for funding COVAX, they were the global leading contributor until they were surpassed by the US in January. The UK also deserves credit. But basically no country other than Germany in the EU deserves any praise. For individual countries, you've got the US, Germany, and UK stepping up, and then very little from anybody else. The Gates Foundation -- a private non-profit run by two wealthy Americans -- has contributed more to COVAX than every other European country, aside from Germany.
There looks to be great opportunity for the US to help the developing world and very wealthy countries like Canada and countries in Europe, with their vaccination supply. I'm hoping the Biden Administration seizes the moment. But, it would be wrong if the Biden Administration prioritizes the people of Belgium -- a wealthy country with good healthcare infrastructure and access -- over, say, the people of Lawrence, Mass, USA, a relatively poor minority-majority city with low rate of vaccination and substandard access to qualify, affordable healthcare. You hate for politics to intercede in global health, but it's also really bad politics: we'll get the return of Donald Trump or someone like him if the president prioritizes wealthy people from Europe over working class people in America. But like Biden has said, if we have a surplus, we'll donate those vaccines to the rest of the world, we don't have surplus, but I believe he'll follow through on that. I hope he does with this AZ vaccine, given that AZ has not done their due diligence trying to get it approved in the US.
Also this isn't and wasn't vaccine hoarding. While the US has orders for vaccines from Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J -- enough orders to provide doses for every qualified American by May -- those vaccines don't exist, the paper and the promises exist, but the doses don't. These doses of AZ were manufactured in the United States, they're orders that the US Gov't has made with AZ. The American Government placed a $1.2b order with AstraZeneca last year for these doses (and more if needed), and AstraZeneca has actually failed to produce them (as others waiting for the AZ vaccine are aware)
Biden has said "If we have a surplus, we're going to share those vaccines with the rest of the world." Currently the US does not have a surplus, in fact, demand far exceeds supply, the US is about 4th in the world for vaccinations but there's no surplus. We have contracts for a surplus, but not actual doses for a surplus.
Based on how manufacturing has gone, and how the US government has paid for enough doses from Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J, I think the right thing to do is to release these AZ vaccines produced in the US to countries who have approved them.
Also general "US Vaccine hoarding thread" reminder that the US has more cases and more deaths than everywhere else in the world and despite this the US is by far the top contributor to COVAX, the global vaccination program. The Moderna vaccine was also funded by the US government, and while Pfizer did not received funding for development of it's vaccine, the US has paid for the production of those ~300m doses of the Pfizer vaccine.
Maybe some day soon the EU will contribute to global health in this fight against COVID like the United States is at the moment.
The EU has not only not been negligent in securing vaccines for Europeans, but also far lags behind the United States in support of developing countries. For a year (and much longer) we've seen first hand at how horrible the American healthcare system is and how it underserves Americans, with plenty of scoffing and nose-thumbing from our European friends who chide us -- "why don't you just do it like us?" Trust us, we'd like to. But when it comes to trying to vaccinate the world, the EU is doing nothing ... but chiding others. The entire EU has contributed €870 to COVAX (the overwhelming majority of which has come from Germany), the global vaccine initiative for developing countries, and the United States has contributed $4b. I can't possibly imagine that if the shoe was on the other foot, like is had been from Feb 2020 to Jan 20, 2021, where the United States was a backwater of disease, death, and despair, that we'd get anything other than condescension from Europeans if the US continued to lag behind the rest of the developed world in COVID response.
Germany deserves praise for funding COVAX, they were the global leading contributor until they were surpassed by the US in January. The UK also deserves credit. But basically no country other than Germany in the EU deserves any praise. For individual countries, you've got the US, Germany, and UK stepping up, and then very little from anybody else. The Gates Foundation -- a private non-profit run by two wealthy Americans -- has contributed more to COVAX than every other European country, aside from Germany.
There looks to be great opportunity for the US to help the developing world and very wealthy countries like Canada and countries in Europe, with their vaccination supply. I'm hoping the Biden Administration seizes the moment. But, it would be wrong if the Biden Administration prioritizes the people of Belgium -- a wealthy country with good healthcare infrastructure and access -- over, say, the people of Lawrence, Mass, USA, a relatively poor minority-majority city with low rate of vaccination and substandard access to qualify, affordable healthcare. You hate for politics to intercede in global health, but it's also really bad politics: we'll get the return of Donald Trump or someone like him if the president prioritizes wealthy people from Europe over working class people in America. But like Biden has said, if we have a surplus, we'll donate those vaccines to the rest of the world, we don't have surplus, but I believe he'll follow through on that. I hope he does with this AZ vaccine, given that AZ has not done their due diligence trying to get it approved in the US.
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You are saying you want to vaccinating everyone in your country to take priority over helping vaccinating their vulnerable in the countries where it is most vulnerable. Those vaccines could either be used for healthy 20 year old Americans in three months or healthcare workers in Mexico now? What is saving most lives? Do you prefer the first?
How do you know, that these aren't orders by the EU or other countries?
But no matter what, hoarding this while people need them, while they don't use them, while people die is just asshole behavior.
...isn't that what this news is about though? That we're giving out vaccines we aren't using to other countries who will?
I don't know what part of my post you're disagreeing with, my point is that AZ being a vaccine we aren't using is precisely because we have vaccines from other manufacturers that we are using instead. If Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J were producing far less, or didn't have FDA approval, or there was some problem in the supply chain with those companies, then we'd need these AZ vaccines to make up the difference. But because we have these three other vaccine makers producing a glut of doses for us to use, we don't need AZ, hence this news.
The issue with posting this comic is that the US is absolutely one of the houses on fire in this situation. This isn't New Zealand hording vaccines.
You are saying you want to vaccinating everyone in your country to take priority over helping vaccinating their vulnerable in the countries where it is most vulnerable. Those vaccines could either be used for healthy 20 year old Americans in three months or healthcare workers in Mexico now? What is saving most lives?
I'm glad the US is exporting these to neighboring countries. It should have been done sooner, but I also "get" that enough Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J vaccines for the populace weren't secured into relatively recently, so I can't point to some specific previous date that the US "should" have done this by.
Pretty much this, J&J getting approved and AZ approval getting delayed in the last 2 or 3 weeks have changed the dynamic for US vaccination rollout.
We no longer need the AZ ones with the supply we are getting from the other 3 so we can release the AZ ones to others.
This is exactly it. It isnt nationalism to prioritize your own country first. It sucks but thats just reality that any country abides by. Priority for America is ensuring that all of our citizens can get the vaccine as fast as possible and then support everyone else.
Definition of NATIONALISM
loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
No it's not, this is just Americans in these threads justifying it to themselves. It is absolutely vaccine nationalism. Reality is that allies are able to cooperate, some just seem to choose not to and others do, EU being the leading provider of vaccines to the world, including 1 million vaccines to the US.
Vaccine hoarding (outside of stockpiling for second jabs) isnt justifiable, especially if you have vaccinated your risk groups, which doesnt seem a long way away for the US. The earlier risk groups all over the world are vaccinated, the less deaths it means.
User Banned (1 Week): Spreading Misinformation in a Pandemic
Kinda shitty that the US is hoarding the vaccines that are proven to work, but tossing the ones that might not to other countries.
Even the US giving away vaccines turns into some nonsense. The US got these orders in early on in the pandemic after also partially funding the development. It's not hoarding when AZ was originally meant to be a significant mix of our vaccination program.
There is almost no federal "US storage". Almost all our vaccines are shipped directly from the factory to distribution centers or states. It's purely semantics. The US owns those vaccines which are stored at AZ factories in the US. Why would they ship out vaccines to the states that can't use them?
You are saying you want to vaccinating everyone in your country to take priority over helping vaccinating their vulnerable in the countries where it is most vulnerable. Those vaccines could either be used for healthy 20 year old Americans in three months or healthcare workers in Mexico now? What is saving most lives? Do you prefer the first?
With how our response has been and with Red States in particular opening up, yes. Yes we should ensure enough supply at home first before exporting to anyone else.
Well, prioritizing your own country first really is nationalism haha. But at the same time, the fact of the matter is, half a million (and counting) have died in the US and there are millions in this country choosing to make it actively worse because they not only flaunt quarantine measures but pride themselves on doing so. So there's both a massive amount of political pressure and a frankly very urgent public health need to vaccine as many Americans ASAP before more of these idiots continue spreading it and killing us.
User Banned (1 week): inflammatory rhetoric
It really shows how well Trumps message works even on a dem hub like ERA as long as you package it with nice words
That’s a cynical take. But IF that is what the US is doing, the US isn’t the only country doing something like that.
New Zealand has recently decided to give away the AztraZeneca vaccine they pre-purchased too. All New Zealand purchased vaccines except for Pzifer are now going to other countries.
New Zealand recently decided to pay more and wait months longer to even start vaccinating it’s citizens, so they are now a Pfizer only country. I guess since New Zealand successfully stamped the virus out through lockdowns they have the luxury of waiting and picking and choosing that other countries don’t have.
Its not a promotion of Americans culture and interests on a global scale to ensure that its citizens are taken care of during a global pandemic first. Im glad we are now starting to help the rest of the world and that definetly needs to happen. The goal of every country's government during a global pandemic is to ensure its people are taken care of firstDefinition of NATIONALISM
loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups… See the full definition
This is not the case at all. It is natural for every country on the planet during a global pandemic to prioritize their citizens more than others, that's one of the main purposes of government.
Trump's message was packaged with an extreme brand of isolationism and go it alone attitude, along with burning bridges, on pretty much everything. I don't think most dems as you put it, agree with that. I don't think people on either side of the political spectrum (particulary outside of ERA) have an issue with the US government looking out for the interests of Americans first. This shouldn't be news
User Banned (1 week): inflammatory rhetoric
Foreigner Era is going full hate boner on the US aren't they?
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You're talking semantics.
Letting vaccines sit in a warehouse you might use on healthy 30-year olds some time in future while other countries are going through a third wave right now, with their elderly and risk groups largely unprotected is an extremely selfish and unsolidary move that costs a lot of lifes.
For the unlikely case of supply issues with other vaccines it would just set back the US vaccine campaign a few weeks, which is laughably irrelevant in the context of other countries real struggle to even vaccinate their risk groups right now.
I'm pretty sure that's nationalism, and not every contry abides to fucking over global vaccine supply with general export bans. Which is evident by all the vaccine exports happening around the world.
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Thinking that the US government should prioritize vaccinating Americans is a tiny asteroid barely within the furthest reaches of the universe that is the ""AMERICA FIRST"" ideology. It's like accusing someone of being a die-hard libertarian because they think we should get rid of the sales tax.
This mythical "every country is out for themselves" doesnt reflect the reality of whats happening and vaccines being exported. Moreover, the WHO would disagree. The "global" in "global pandemic" is there for a reason.
I keep seeing Americans claim this but the rest of the world has shown that this is not the case. Everyone else was sharing what they could. It is completely fair to criticize the US for vaccine nationalism since that is what they did and anyone else that refuses to share in the middle of a pandemic would be called out for the same.
I don't understand why American's both want to be nationalist like this but also get really defensive when you point it out.
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We were literally tapped out in January. Had the AZ vaccine been approved by then we wouldn't have a stockpile of it now because elderly and at risks groups still aren't fully vaccinated here despite being well on their way now that there's a steady work flow.
Once again, you're looking at the fact that things have gone well after the fact as opposed to the very real possibility that they may not have.
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Gov. Kate Brown of Oregon: States will not be receiving increased shipments of vaccines from national stockpile...because it doesn't exist
Just in awe of how bad this administration is.
www.resetera.com
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This is rather cynical (if not outright disingeneous) considering that A) the US is using as many vaccines as it can get its hands on from the approved ones, and B) they aren't snubbing these vaccines for probably "not working" but because they have enough supply of the others.
Astra Zeneca is absolutely proven to work, and work well, at what it is a vaccine for: COVID. There may be a currently unproven side effect that causes blood clots in a tiny, tiny amount of people.
Also, there isn't a country on earth that would prioritise other countries over vaccinating their own citizens, so all this pearl clutching about America First is pretty tedious to read. If the shoe was on the other foot, I would bet my life that most of you would be justifying about how actually it makes perfect sense that Germany/Mexico/Japan/Pick A Country looked after it's own supply line first.
Pretty much, if Canada had the capacity at the time to produce I'm sure we would have done the same thing
This isn't vaccine hoarding. America was going to need these shots until *extremely recently* when production ramped up on the other 3 vaccines. Also, I am sure the pause on astra-zeneca vaccines likely informed this decision as it would be *really* bad optics for anti-vaxxers if the US gave emergency use authorization here given the news-cycle. I think we may otherwise have been starting to use these shots this week or next.
We are also a raging tire fire of covid and the federal government legally can't keep large conservative states from opening up everything 100%. We are in an active race to vaccinate idiots before they kill us all.
America has had (and continues to have) one of the worst public health responses to the pandemic. You want our dumb asses vaccinated because we're the fuckers that are going to create a strain that gets past the vaccines otherwise.
We are also a raging tire fire of covid and the federal government legally can't keep large conservative states from opening up everything 100%. We are in an active race to vaccinate idiots before they kill us all.
America has had (and continues to have) one of the worst public health responses to the pandemic. You want our dumb asses vaccinated because we're the fuckers that are going to create a strain that gets past the vaccines otherwise.
Maybe some are hoping that the US would be in the situation EU is in? Putting many eggs in one basket, then it be riddled with issues throughout?
The US vaccine situation did not look as good as it does currently until very recently. Part of that was getting whatever supply looked promising rather than rely on only one company. Now that it looks like some supply that wasn’t yet approved may not be needed, the next move should be to look to send them elsewhere, which is happening it looks like.
The US vaccine situation did not look as good as it does currently until very recently. Part of that was getting whatever supply looked promising rather than rely on only one company. Now that it looks like some supply that wasn’t yet approved may not be needed, the next move should be to look to send them elsewhere, which is happening it looks like.
"Foreigner" Era is it? Not even subtle about the mentality here lol
Aren't there issues with the Astra Zeneca vaccine? A few countries have stopped using them because of this. I almost feel this is some sort of double edged sword scenario for Canadians that will bite them in the ass in the long run
You're right. After all isn't the AZ vaccine also one-shot like J&J? Therefore it's probably much easier to transport and administer. I would also assume those are the ones that will be sent to poorer communities.
Yes, both of these vaccines are the easiest to distribute and one would assume rural parts of most countries will have an easier time administering and storing these. Especially rural areas of Mexico which we know have been a real challenge for the mexican government
Germany, Belgium, Italy, Netherlands, Swiss, India, China, Russia all are allowing exports vaccines to other countries. The USA and the UK are the only producers that don't. For instance, every Pfizer vaccine used outside the US is Belgian.
I said it in the last thread that came up about this.
If two countries have out of control wild fires and one is rich and one is poor, is it the rich country's responsibility to help put out both fires at the same time? or should they prioritize their own fire first?