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Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
Nah. And neither should you. Not after yesterday

I don't, because much like Bill, Manchin is much more conservative than his peers and has no problem entertaining some dumbass Republican talking points when he feels like it.

Point being, if Manchin isn't an ally (and he isn't), the guy who is friends with Ann Coulter, likes Milo, and has said bigoted shit on multiple occasions sure as fuck isn't either, political party be damned.
 

Bear and bird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,596
Bill Maher strikes me as someone who is incredibly out of touch with the political landscape among the youth and on the Internet. Unironically using the term "social justice warrior" is a huge red flag.

I've made a point out of (calmly) challenging people who peddle the "too much political correctness" and "SJW" complaint IRL. More often than not they're just repeating shit they've heard online without actually reflecting over how much free speech they really have.

Can we stop pretending Maher isn't just another shitbag like ALex Jones??
Lmao. Maher can be terrible, but he is in no way as bad as fucking Alex Jones.

Maher should absolutely be criticized when he makes mistakes, but comparing him to a conspiracy-peddling snake oil salesmen is only giving fuel to conservatives who think liberals overreact too much.
 

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
Bill Maher is like the liberal equivalent of a "white feminist " he is totally for liberalism as long as it benefits white males. His words constantly reveal how little he thinks about non white Male issues.

Maher is so obtuse to me. Most often he says some pretty on point shit, but most commonly (in the same 5 minutes) jams his entire leg in his mouth with some dumb, contortionist garbage.

Don't get me wrong, Bill is an ally IMO. And he catches a lot a flack for some pretty mundane shit. But he's also not somebody I would take a lick of guidance from when the adults are speaking

The whole concept of ally is stupid. Having empathy towards a morally just causes makes you a decent human being. You should not be praising people for having decency, it is the least we should be doing. Bes

Honestly, calling bill Maher an ally, assuming the concept of ally wasn't already stupid, is an example of how progressive shoot themselves in the foot. It deludes the platform and it is why Democrats Keep moving right. Dems are so desperate that they late any jackass come in.
 

FirMatt

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
252
Boston MA
I personally know someone whose family knew Maher in the early 2000s. She got to meet him back stage once, when she was an early teen. Apparently he was smoking weed with a bunch of other girls her age, and she felt really uncomfortable. That's all I've been told, so it's not like she witnessed him crossing a line per se, but it does strike me as inappropriate and a little weird... Perhaps he's defending Kavanagh across party lines because he's got some skeletons too..
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,203
Maher's def having news drop on him, isn't he?

Also, I love how all the blame goes to Democrats or SJWs or whatever but not the fucking party full of racists who nominated and defended the piece of shit nomination.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,000
Maher's def having news drop on him, isn't he?

Also, I love how all the blame goes to Democrats or SJWs or whatever but not the fucking party full of racists who nominated and defended the piece of shit nomination.
The only thing I blame democrats for is their willingness to not fight this growing narrative. Where the fuck did this come from? What is this "demoralized leftist" shit all of the sudden?
 
Maher's def having news drop on him, isn't he?

Also, I love how all the blame goes to Democrats or SJWs or whatever but not the fucking party full of racists who nominated and defended the piece of shit nomination.
Par for the course in America, whenever Republicans do something awful they always get the benefit of the doubt at the end of the day, meanwhile Democrats always have a priblem with their tone and need to appeal to "civility" otherwise everything is their fault.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,866
Netherlands
The Democrats would never have been able to stave off the confirmation by Ford's hearing. There was no proof, just he said she said (FWIW I obviously do believe Ford), and they should have known R-s would close ranks. All the extra bickering ended up making the Dems look bad for trying to tar someone with something that's unprovable. Instead they should have dug in the moment Kavanaugh started lying to the Senate and claiming a conspiracy. Not go mmmhmm when he said Devil's Triangle was a drinking game, but nail him on the spot for making a mockery of the justice system and therefore unfit to be a justice.

But, this is all with the benefit of hindsight. It seemed like a sound strategy at the time, and passing blame around now is never a sound strategy.
 

yumms

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,156
I listened to the show, he said this as a passive statement, he never indicated that this was THE reason.
 

studyguy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,282

Did you know that leftists only exist because the tea party yelled at them and so they were like "Oh I guess I'm going to support universal health care now and YOU DID THIS!"

Anyway, democrats continually taking advice from republican leaning op-eds about civility, calls from people like Comey to take a seat and stay civil against an increasingly uneven level of representation in congress and now the judicial branch that is completely skewed, it gets to feel ridiculous heeding those takes.
 

TheRuralJuror

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,501
I fully understand the point he's trying to make, but ultimately, he's arguing for more of the same bullshit and as someone who typically moderate, I think it's time a party stands for something. We need to stop trying to pander to idiots and rape apologists.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
Being liberal does not make you immune from being crazy. Case in point, Maher.
 

Limit

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
362
The hyperbole in this thread is comical. 99% of you didn't even watch the episode. lol

Every single thread about his show is like that. The last segment of the show is way more deserving to be shared and discussed than a passive statement in a 4 minute long debate between him and his panelists.

For those who haven't, check out his new rules segment from last night's show. It's important.
 

DoggosPuppersWoofers

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,880
God, the left is dumb. All this infighting.

SJW's ruin everything. Maher is just like Alex Jones.
Meanwhile kids are in cages and a man unfit to be on the Supreme Court will get confirmed. But apparently it's all SJW's fault. Or Maher's. Or whoever. It's always the people on the left. Even we believe it.
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,338
The Democrats would never have been able to stave off the confirmation by Ford's hearing. There was no proof, just he said she said (FWIW I obviously do believe Ford), and they should have known R-s would close ranks. All the extra bickering ended up making the Dems look bad for trying to tar someone with something that's unprovable. Instead they should have dug in the moment Kavanaugh started lying to the Senate and claiming a conspiracy. Not go mmmhmm when he said Devil's Triangle was a drinking game, but nail him on the spot for making a mockery of the justice system and therefore unfit to be a justice.

But, this is all with the benefit of hindsight. It seemed like a sound strategy at the time, and passing blame around now is never a sound strategy.
EXACTLY. Democrats completely fumbled because they always try to play identity politics and they do it wrong. They could have nailed Kavanaugh about lying under oath and used that as the disqualifier that would also give legitimacy to Ford's allegations. Instead the entire thing because a circus because they asked no questions, and everybody played political theater rather than try to stop the supreme court nomination. No one in that room was interested in the truth, and the democrats were just as bad as the republicans on that point.

The democrats aren't NEARLY as good at playing the victim as the republicans are, and the proof is in how the allegations moved away from being one of the main points to show Kavanaugh wasn't fit for the bench. They could have woven Ford's testimony into an overall narrative that Kavanaugh is a liar. Instead it turned into "Kavanaugh is a repeated rapist" without enough proof to show he was. What they DID have proof of is that he's a liar. And while I believe Ford entirely, going after Kavanaugh's personal record and catching him lying was so important. Democrats are constantly out played by republicans because they expect the republicans to be playing with the same rule set and they don't. Especially now. Trump says worse and worse shit and people get mad on twitter but those same people are saying they still won't get out and vote these mother fuckers out of office.
 

corasaur

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,988
what a fantastically stupid motherfucker. people who respond that way to sexual assault allegations respond that way to literally any discussion of sexual assault whatsoever.

the GOP behaved as an organization that doesn't think very highly of women because it is a collection of people that either don't think sexual assault is a bad thing or view sexist assholes as an acceptable price for the chance to strip-mine the economy and environment.

they didn't almost forget to be sexist until someone pointed out the sexism. collins' career plans dictated her vote, not the patronizing "you made me hit you" tier garbage in her announcement speech. meanwhile, flake wouldn't even have had a spine for 15 minutes without the confrontations- he'd have just cruised along in toady mode the whole time.


and giving a shit about perjury is one of the rules that republicans don't enforce upon other republicans. harping on the inconsistent testimony wouldn't have worked.
 

DoomGaze

Member
Nov 16, 2017
181
so insane right-wingers who think that obama was a maoist and nancy pelosi wants a communist revolution only voted for a hardline conservative rapist judge because some women yelled at them as they were doing so?
No. That is a very, very specific framing of a sentiment that could be explored in a lot of ways. Of course I think the actual reason he got confirmed was because at the end of the day, it's 51R and 49D.

I think Maher is, in his usual abrasive fashion, trying to point out that there were things the party could have done for itself, and I definitely agree. Ford was compelling and believable, at least initially. The inclusion of Avenatti was a poor decision and it diluted the situation. After that it just became a shitfest, and it didn't take long for people to start realizing that people were just throwing shit in hopes that something would stick. It was a demonstration of the reality that anyone can say anything.

Even right now, the confirmation. All the screaming in the assembly. How do they think it makes them look? Whatever effect they're hoping it will have, is going to be greatly different from the effect it will actually have. I've always liked Maher but I know I'm in the minority here.
 
EXACTLY. Democrats completely fumbled because they always try to play identity politics and they do it wrong. They could have nailed Kavanaugh about lying under oath and used that as the disqualifier that would also give legitimacy to Ford's allegations. Instead the entire thing because a circus because they asked no questions, and everybody played political theater rather than try to stop the supreme court nomination. No one in that room was interested in the truth, and the democrats were just as bad as the republicans on that point.

The democrats aren't NEARLY as good at playing the victim as the republicans are, and the proof is in how the allegations moved away from being one of the main points to show Kavanaugh wasn't fit for the bench. They could have woven Ford's testimony into an overall narrative that Kavanaugh is a liar. Instead it turned into "Kavanaugh is a repeated rapist" without enough proof to show he was. What they DID have proof of is that he's a liar. And while I believe Ford entirely, going after Kavanaugh's personal record and catching him lying was so important. Democrats are constantly out played by republicans because they expect the republicans to be playing with the same rule set and they don't. Especially now. Trump says worse and worse shit and people get mad on twitter but those same people are saying they still won't get out and vote these mother fuckers out of office.

Oh please people hammered he lied under oath, Republicans didn't care.

He clearly lied under oath, they just don't care.
 

Bandage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,626
The Internet
No. That is a very, very specific framing of a sentiment that could be explored in a lot of ways. Of course I think the actual reason he got confirmed was because at the end of the day, it's 51R and 49D.

I think Maher is, in his usual abrasive fashion, trying to point out that there were things the party could have done for itself, and I definitely agree. Ford was compelling and believable, at least initially. The inclusion of Avenatti was a poor decision and it diluted the situation. After that it just became a shitfest, and it didn't take long for people to start realizing that people were just throwing shit in hopes that something would stick. It was a demonstration of the reality that anyone can say anything.

Even right now, the confirmation. All the screaming in the assembly. How do they think it makes them look? Whatever effect they're hoping it will have, is going to be greatly different from the effect it will actually have. I've always liked Maher but I know I'm in the minority here.
So if Democrats were more polite to the people destroying the world it would be better?

Uh huh
 

DoomGaze

Member
Nov 16, 2017
181
That's exactly what you and Maher are saying though.

No it's not.
I'm not talking about measures of politeness. I am speaking distinctly about measures of effectiveness. You're not arguing in good faith- you're taking anything I say and twisting it into the worst possible interpretation.
 
I guess all the media coverage I've seen that focused on the sexual assault allegations was just my imagination?

People called out his lying, not to the degree of the sexual stuff but don't pretend people didn't.

Lying wouldn't have stopped the nomination anyone could see he was lying and even on twitter en mass people pointed it out.

Pretty sure Bernie Sanders had a tweet storm about him lying too.

Again, Republicans would do anything to put him through they don't care.

So again I think its funny that people think lying would have stopped the nomination, considering how craven Republicans are in congress.
 
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Bandage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,626
The Internet
No it's not.
I'm not talking about measures of politeness. I am speaking distinctly about measures of effectiveness. You're not arguing in good faith- you're taking anything I say and twisting it into the worst possible interpretation.
You're crying about Americans utilizing their right to protest a rapist being elected to the highest court in the land.
That's about as disingenuous as you can get.
 

mikeys_legendary

The Fallen
Sep 26, 2018
3,009
Tey should be believed, every single one of them. Especially because statistically reports are truthful more than not. That doesn't mean demonize the person accused without further proof.
I disagree, but you're free to believe them. I personally try my best to remain impartial until I have the details. Without both sides being heard, believing the alleged victim is the same as condemning the alleged perpetrator.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,325
Bill Maher is useless

Don't get bogged down in any fights about is he left or right?

The only thing that matters is that he's fucking useless
 

DoomGaze

Member
Nov 16, 2017
181
You're right. They're not effective because Republicans are monsters.
It's not because of "social justice warriors" or protesters.
It's because Republicans are garbage pieces of shits.

That's not why they're ineffective. And if you continue to adopt that philosophy you'll continue to lose. The Republicans are indeed tyrannical. But that is one hurdle, and there are many ways to deal with that. Clearly going nuts in a public forum is not one of them. There were tons... tons of protests about Kavanaugh, and there was extensive coverage on them. He still got elected. I firmly believe he could have been stopped.

You said I'm crying about Americans utilizing their right. I'm not. I'm saying they should use their right in a way that yields utility.

Interestingly enough I actually believe Kavanaugh being elected will cement the Democrats taking the House. I don't know if it was their intent to just let it go, but if it was they're probably willing to make some concessions in order to win a bigger battle.

And I don't know how much you know about judges, but if you follow them, you know that if they hadn't gotten Kavanaugh they would have gotten Barrett, and that would have been a nightmare.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,954
I disagree, but you're free to believe them. I personally try my best to remain impartial until I have the details. Without both sides being heard, believing the alleged victim is the same as condemning the alleged perpetrator.

It's not the thing a thing all, so your logic doesn't follow.

Believe means listen and take their accusation seriously, especially as a large majority of accusations are proven to be true, that's all. It has never meant condemn the accused.

So yes. You should always believe.
 
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Masterz1337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,794
The responses here are just as bad as his original statement. Demonizing an ally because he is wrong on a issue or disagrees with you on approaches isn't conductive or going to lead to a change. While I hate the term "SJW" as much as anyone else here, there are plenty of people who make the dumbest of arguments and dilute the conversation on our side.

Just look as far as the people who try and make the case or insinuate Kavanaugh is an alcoholic or has a drinking problem to diminish him because he like every other college student drank to much when he was young. The p point being made should have been that he was out of control then with his drinking, blacking out, aggressive, and that his own testimony can't be taken to be accurate regarding his high school and college behavior.

There are plenty on the left who feed the rights fears and however good their intentions are, the lack of unity on the left can be detrimental to leftist causes. While I haven't watched the episode yet this article seems to be taking a lot of this out of context and cherry picking the parts that will outrage people. Compare this to the right, where while they may have their own batshit insane advocates, they generally fall in line with the party line. Unlike the left, they aren't trying to win with facts and logic, but with feeling and sensation. The left has to win with logic and reason to convince people, not prey on their emotions like the right does.

I also think it's silly to put the blame of this nomination on the people who were going to vote for him regardless. If we outnumber them and can't be an effective opposition, we need to be looking at us and how we can operate as effectively as the right when it comes to matters like this. The lefts messaging is weak when it comes to convincing people to change their minds.

The dems did a terrible job managing this whole thing. The arguments were weak and shifting and lacked any sort of cohesive message and in the end the focus was solely on allegation which we all knew the FBI wouldn't be able to fully investigate within a single weeks time. By the end there was no talk of his failures and policies, and hinged all on a social movement that was never going to convince republicans not to back him considering the republicans tend to believe in "innocent until proven guilty" anyway as if this was some court of criminal trial.

And you can debate what the best route of action could or should be, but if you believe the Dems and the left did everything they could and don't think it could be done more effectively, then that's just pure insanity to back losing tactics. No matter how hard those tactics were tried.