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Billy Mitchell taking legal action against Twin Galaxies and Guinness (Twin Galaxies Responds)
- Thread starter SoH
- Start date
There was some bullshit in one of the MAME videos showing them supposedly swapping out a board on a real cabinet. He knew.
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Fair. I'll add a little summary to the OP for anyone just joining the saga.
Oh no, that wasn't a dig at your OP.
It's just that I had no idea about any of this, and reading up on it. It's crazy. Like when you first find out about John McAfee for example.
I mean, he was able to play them and submit them with only a video, no? Outside of the doc, doesnt seem like they've been anal about anything until recently due to reputation.
Sounds like it'd be easier if they do records like in sport. You have your personal best (which could be hacked in this case), but then a public record that you do in front of people on a specified device (e.g., Olympic record) which should go on websites like twin galaxies or Guinness.
TG made an exception especially for Billy because they trusted him and assumed he would never ever cheat. Normally for arcade game world records they insist it be done on a machine in front of an audience and a judge.
That was because he was in with the guys at Twin Galaxies and they took him at face value without verifying his equipment. A big part of the scandal when it was shown he cheated was that Twin Galaxies didn't do their due diligence and it devalued the rest of the scores that were allegedly legit. So they purged his and Todd Rogers scores after it was proven that they lied and/or cheated in an attempt to regain credibility.
I haven't tried it myself but Billy Mitchell is definitely the type of guy to fuck around and load that shit up with vinegar.
Yes. I'm aware of how it happened. I'm replying to a poster saying that they check everything with a fine tooth comb before submitting in response to me saying that it's entirely possible he didnt know the machines were running mame. We're very close to talking in circles here.
The legal opinion on it is A+ reading material, too (below is part of a thread dissecting it)
haha suing innocent people so funny so WACKY what a cool character!!! great acting
It's the exception that proves the rule, but you refuse to let it go. He was the one person in the world they assumed would never ever try to submit a world record using a MAME machine, either through ignorance or deceit.
EDIT after he replied below: lol I forgot how tiresome this shit could be.
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Huh? Listen all I said was that he may have not known and have responded to people saying he HAS to know and why that must be, or other people thinking I don't know the situation I'm talking about. I'm not NOT letting anything go, just clarifying responses when people reply to me... like... a conversation?
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Billy himself in his massive evidence packet rejects this possibility. Neither Twin Galaxies, Billy Mitchell, or the venue are making an argument that MAME was accidentally used.
And this would mean, if it is indeed a MAME machine or not, he is under the express impression that it isn't?Billy himself in his massive evidence packet rejects this possibility. Neither Twin Galaxies, Billy Mitchell, or the venue are making an argument that MAME was accidentally used.
Anyway, as the other poster was speaking of letting this go, I'm letting this go.
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His evidence document is a lot of repeating the same info but the basic argument is he argues he completed the scores on authentic arcade hardware and the tape was tampered with after the fact.
I remember him getting salty over Regular Show's parody and suing Cartoon Network over it.
"The television character does not match the plaintiff in appearance: GBF appears as a non-human creature, a giant floating head with no body from outer space, while Plaintiff is a human being,"
"And when GBF loses his title, the character literally explodes, unlike Plaintiff."
"The television character does not match the plaintiff in appearance: GBF appears as a non-human creature, a giant floating head with no body from outer space, while Plaintiff is a human being,"
"And when GBF loses his title, the character literally explodes, unlike Plaintiff."
Evidence Document Update
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I have made my way through the evidence document. Here is what I think is the most important throughline worth knowing about..
In TG's livestream reviewing Billy Mitchell's 1,047 score the integrity of the tape source is addressed here. This is Mitchell's primary complaint because the source of the tape, Dwayne Richard, has a publicly well known extreme dislike for Mitchell.
(47:20)
In short, TG used footage from King of Kong as well as an independent copy provided by Greg Erway.
"At the time that Steve Wiebe was submitting his performances and they were being called under question, Billy's performances were used as the model of professional play to compare Steve Wiebe's tapes to as they looked for things. So what happened is Walter Day had copies of Billy's performances sent to all referees that he had asked to take a look at. One of those people was Dwayne Richard. Another one was Greg Erway who actually got digital files of both the 1047 and the 1050 performances. So we got a copy from Greg Erway"
Billy takes issue with this because Walter Day states he never dealt with digital copies of any player's performance so he couldn't be the source. This leads Billy to the wild conclusion that the only possible source of this independent copy is Dwayne Richard. The hateful man out to ruin him. It is a fucking leap and a half and a weak-ass argument. He goes on and on about various things and endless witness documents about how wonderful he is but this is what he presents as his primary evidence of tape tampering.
Quick Update: initially I didn't address line item 4 because I couldn't find whatever testimony from Erway is being mentioned. I think he must be referring to the statement on Page 29 from Richard Vavrence which mentions his discussion with Erway saying he can't confirm the tape source. Which isn't a testimony by Erway it is a second hand discussion, but regardless. It'll be trivial for TG to line up the gameplay from King of Kong if it does match since you have the score as a constant reference.
In TG's livestream reviewing Billy Mitchell's 1,047 score the integrity of the tape source is addressed here. This is Mitchell's primary complaint because the source of the tape, Dwayne Richard, has a publicly well known extreme dislike for Mitchell.
(47:20)
In short, TG used footage from King of Kong as well as an independent copy provided by Greg Erway.
"At the time that Steve Wiebe was submitting his performances and they were being called under question, Billy's performances were used as the model of professional play to compare Steve Wiebe's tapes to as they looked for things. So what happened is Walter Day had copies of Billy's performances sent to all referees that he had asked to take a look at. One of those people was Dwayne Richard. Another one was Greg Erway who actually got digital files of both the 1047 and the 1050 performances. So we got a copy from Greg Erway"
Billy takes issue with this because Walter Day states he never dealt with digital copies of any player's performance so he couldn't be the source. This leads Billy to the wild conclusion that the only possible source of this independent copy is Dwayne Richard. The hateful man out to ruin him. It is a fucking leap and a half and a weak-ass argument. He goes on and on about various things and endless witness documents about how wonderful he is but this is what he presents as his primary evidence of tape tampering.
Quick Update: initially I didn't address line item 4 because I couldn't find whatever testimony from Erway is being mentioned. I think he must be referring to the statement on Page 29 from Richard Vavrence which mentions his discussion with Erway saying he can't confirm the tape source. Which isn't a testimony by Erway it is a second hand discussion, but regardless. It'll be trivial for TG to line up the gameplay from King of Kong if it does match since you have the score as a constant reference.
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I have made my way through the evidence document. Here is what I think is the most important throughline worth knowing about..
In TG's livestream reviewing Billy Mitchell's 1,047 score the integrity of the tape source is addressed here. This is Mitchell's primary complaint because the source of the tape, Dwayne Richard, has a publicly well known extreme dislike for Mitchell.
(47:20)
In short, TG used footage from King of Kong as well as an independent copy provided by Greg Erway.
"At the time that Steve Wiebe was submitting his performances and they were being called under question, Billy's performances were used as the model of professional play to compare Steve Wiebe's tapes to as they looked for things. So what happened is Walter Day had copies of Billy's performances sent to all referees that he had asked to take a look at. One of those people was Dwayne Richard. Another one was Greg Erway who actually got digital files of both the 1047 and the 1050 performances. So we got a copy from Greg Erway"
Billy takes issue with this because Walter Day states he never dealt with digital copies of any player's performance so he couldn't be the source. This leads Billy to the wild conclusion that the only possible source of this independent copy is Dwayne Richard. The hateful man out to ruin him. It is a fucking leap and a half and a weak-ass argument. He goes on and on about various things and endless witness documents about how wonderful he is but this is what he presents as his primary evidence of tape tampering.
Wouldn't all of this be pointless unless Billy has the original recorded footage without the MAME level transitions? Even if the source of the digital copies was in question he'd still have to prove that they were doctored.
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His arguments around the 1,047 tape are really strange. He goes on about how it was never a real submission and was done for "entertainment purposes only" as part of making King of Kong a "docu-drama." As part of that he ended up sending the master tape because the copy had the rollover problem when 1 mil was hit as we saw in the film.
So he wants us to understand it was not a serious submission and the referees watching it were not verifying it. Implying that what is seen cannot be used to verify. So he is admitting what is on the tape that is shown in King of Kong was fabricated bullshit but never actually saying it as to not implicate himself? I really, really do not understand his argument.
He also has a whole section dedicated to even though he believes the tapes were tampered, just in case, the girder level transition IS ACTUALLY possible on arcade hardware..
..on DK jr.
It is an odd document.
Twin Galaxies Responds
Looks like Twin Galaxies has responded. https://www.twingalaxies.com/showth...ayer-Billy-L-Mitchell-Score-1-062-800/page377
Looks like Twin Galaxies has responded. https://www.twingalaxies.com/showth...ayer-Billy-L-Mitchell-Score-1-062-800/page377
God damn, that is quite a reply lmao.
It didn't take long to get good either.
They were like "Straight up, this is how it's gonna be." right away.
Just kinda felt like there was "sass" sprinkled in the rest too. I know that might seem silly to think like this since it's like... an important document or something, but I got the feeling the overall tone while reading it was "Look... we're sick of your shit. You don't want none of this."
Thanks for posting that KBSaint
It didn't take long to get good either.
They were like "Straight up, this is how it's gonna be." right away.
Just kinda felt like there was "sass" sprinkled in the rest too. I know that might seem silly to think like this since it's like... an important document or something, but I got the feeling the overall tone while reading it was "Look... we're sick of your shit. You don't want none of this."
Thanks for posting that KBSaint
LMAO
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i watched a video where they claim that billy mitchell took a break during his perfect pacman record which is against the rules so that is also invalid. he also wasn't the first one to get a perfect pacman score either. it was pretty much walter day and billy doing it for some pacman anniversary.
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Just got to read their response in full. The jab at Mitchell for not bothering to lay out a statement of defamation so they tried to make one for him to refute is top shelf. It would be foolish of him to proceed with legal action. I don't know where he goes from here. I assume it is important to his cheer squad that he maintains being the victim unjustly stripped of his accomplishments, though I can't see a scenario where any legal action looks good and doesn't financially ruin him.
There's also a rumor that his family doesn't speak to him since years. That would be a great villain origin.
LOL
I will always have a spot in my heart for the old site for introducing me to the king of kong
That Twin Galaxies response is one of the better legal "fuck you" letters I've seen in a mainstream case like this. I think they've chosen very good counsel. It's not easy to make a publicly digestible doc like that which slits the throat of any legal credibility by the plaintiff.
That said, these defamation/libel standards are so basic that any comm major would have probably studied them as a sophomore/junior, at least from programs I've been around. It's hilarious how actively bad Mitchell's counsel seems to be.
That said, these defamation/libel standards are so basic that any comm major would have probably studied them as a sophomore/junior, at least from programs I've been around. It's hilarious how actively bad Mitchell's counsel seems to be.
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I know someone that when you meet him at first, he seems like a nice chap. In fact, that is his initial plan with everybody he meets.
In reailty he is a morally bankrupt piece of shit. Of the highest caliber, and someone that is not in prison becuase the shit he did to other people is not 100% illegal.
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Whenever I hear him say "'Cuz I'm Billy Mitchell..." I always imagine the question is that "Why are you the way that you are?" gif.
Funny watching this after the recent Apollo Legend video I found by lurking around that Twin Galaxies thread..
personally? I don't think any of Billy Mitchell's family stuff is anybody's business, so I think it'd be better if he just cut that part of the phone call...
I've always wanted to try it, but I kinda really want to try it now, lol...
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some shade was definitely intendedGod damn, that is quite a reply lmao.
It didn't take long to get good either.
They were like "Straight up, this is how it's gonna be." right away.
Just kinda felt like there was "sass" sprinkled in the rest too. I know that might seem silly to think like this since it's like... an important document or something, but I got the feeling the overall tone while reading it was "Look... we're sick of your shit. You don't want none of this."
