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Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
naMuCAb.jpg



ALOLA!

With the release of Pokemon Sword and Shield a few months away, and Generation VII more or less "finished", it's time for the Alolan Variant of Birdie's Pokemon Return To The Past. There are 88 Pokemon to discuss between Sun and Moon, Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, and Let's Go---I didn't play this last one but to be honest I don't think it matters much since it doesn't do much for any of the Alolan Pokemon bar the introduction of Meltan and Melmetal. That's not too bad, though there are quite a few interesting variants to talk about including the 18 Alolan Pokemon.

I'll be dividing my discussion between five main groups of Pokemon.

* "Normal Pokemon": All the non-Legendary, non-Ultra Beast Pokemon first debuting in Generation VII, in numerical order.
* "Regional Variants": All the Regional Variants introduced in Alola, by order of their original counterparts.
* "Legendary Pokemon": I'll be covering Type: Null/Silvally (the latter is officially a Legendary Pokemon), the Tapu, and the Cosmog family + Necrozma
* "Ultra Beasts": I'll be covering all the Ultra Beasts.
* "Mythical Pokemon": I'll finish things up with Magearna, Marshadow, Zeraora, Meltan, and Melmetal.

Like before I'll be grouping Pokemon by evolution line (though due to size I might have to split a post), or those linked together such as the Tapu. Note there are some Version Exclusives linked together in the Alola Dex in-game who I'll be giving their own post due to not having much in common, Turtunator/Drampa and Passimian/Oranguru mainly, but like before I'll introduce the Legendary Pokemon together as a group before individually talking about them.

Unlike before, I'll make sure to actually keep this post updated to link to the post for each Pokemon Family.

* Rowlet, Dartrix, Decidueye
* Litten, Torracat, Incineroar
* Popplio, Brionne, Primarina
* Pikipek, Trumbeak, Toucannon
* Yungoos, Gumshoos
* Grubbin, Charjabug, Vikavolt
* Crabrawler, Crabominable
* Oricorio
* Cutiefly, Ribombee
* Rockruff, Lycanroc
* Wishiwashi
* Mareanie, Toxapex
* Mudbray, Mudsdale
* Dewpider, Araquanid
* Fomantis, Lurantis
* Morelull, Shiinotic
* Salandit, Salazzle
* Stufful, Bewear
* Bounsweet, Steenee, Tsareena
* Comfey
* Oranguru
* Passimian
 
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Rowlet, Dartrix, and Decidueye
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Birdie

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
XaCSXzM.png

# 722 - Rowlet
Grass/Flying

So in the original "721 And Counting Thread", we began with Bulbasaur who was our first dual-type Starter Pokemon. At the time that struck me as a weird quirk Game Freak included in the initial game and decided against doing for future titles once they established their formula, but here we are two decades later and we have our second dual-type Starter Pokemon in the form of the Grass/Flying Rowlet. That's pretty cool. As Flying doesn't interact with Fire or Water it also doesn't imbalance the Type Trinity, and as Flying-type Pokemon are typically early game anyway it doesn't make Rowlet particularly overpowered either. A common joke upon its reveal was the "*insert weak Pokemon* uses Powder Snow!" meme, but despite being 4X weak to Ice-type attacks that won't be much of an issue in the early game since Ice-type Pokemon, and attacks, aren't too common early on like usual.

Unfortunately I never got around to using Rowlet in-game, even though he was initially my pick for my first Starter. He's notable in having the highest HP of all first form Starter Pokemon surprisingly, and is primarily a physical Pokemon. Needless to say he happens to be pretty slow, but as that's a theme among Alolan Pokemon it's almost not even worth pointing out here unless the Pokemon is one of the few who is actually quick. In Pokemon Sun and Moon, this time around they have every Starter Pokemon a STAB move right from Level 1 with Litten getting Ember, Popplio getting Water Gun, and Rowlet getting the new move Leafage. Basically a weaker version of Razor Leaf, that move is a bit too powerful for a starting move, so Game Freak gave us a new weak Grass-type move which is pretty neat. Ultimately Leafage isn't anything special, but it gives physical Grass-type Pokemon an extra option for those that are found early on or hatched. It eventually gains Razor Leaf for a stronger Grass-type move, as well as Peck for Flying-type STAB. And hinting at the Type of its final evolution, the Ghost-type Astonish and Ominous Wind(USUM).

Rowlet's design is interesting. A big issue I, and others, have with the Galar Starters are that they all seem to sort of go with a generic body-shape---they each have large heads, with an attachment on top of their heads to make them appear even bigger and draw more attention to them, supported by a smaller body and a tail of sorts. In a vacuum there's nothing wrong with the Galar Starter designs individually, but side-by-side upon first reveal they struck me as a bit dull in terms of design. Rowlet, on the other hand, has a pretty interesting and unique design for a Starter Pokemon. I know I just criticized giant heads, but here's a Pokemon that just tosses away the small body and makes its whole head the body basically much in the same way of Hoothoot. I don't have an issue with this at all because when you think of owls, one of the first things you think of inevitably is their sizable cranium and large eyes, so making that the focal point of the design makes perfect sense.

Another element of Rowlet I enjoy is how it ditches the usual color-scheme of most Grass-type Pokemon much like Chespin did, for a unique cream-colored design. The idea of "let's take an animal and add a plant!" is less obvious here as well, with the exact nature of its body debatable. Are the tan parts simply feathers, or some type of brown grass? It's a bit ambiguous, and among Grass-type Pokemon Rowlet strikes me as being less grass-y than other Pokemon. Though it's capable of using photosynthesis, a cute way to incorporate the idea of owls resting during the day, most of its moves revolve around throwing leafs as projectiles rather than using skills such as Absorb and such. I assume its body is a weird mix of natural feathers and then leaf-like feathers that it can quickly shoot out and regrow. A small part of its design I appreciate and I think was intentional is that the combination of its small eyes and mask resembles an apple core. Also that little bow-tie is cute---and a recent Smash Ultimate Spirit Event grouped it among Nintendo characters who wear dress-clothes so, yeah, it's officially considered as such.

As you probably know, Rowlet is of course an owl Pokemon. Owls are pretty neat creatures so I'm a bit surprised we didn't get another one until Generation VII after Hoothoot. Rowlet takes after the iconic "barn owl" known for its mask-like face and strange looking mouth---they're quite alien in appearance, and quite a few classic aliens such as Mothman and the Flatwoods Monster were believed to be folks mistaking barn owls for creatures from beyond. That doesn't really have anything to do with Rowlet, but if you recall I'm big into that paranormal stuff. Rowlet has all the stuff you'd expect from an owl---it can rotate its head, though it does it horizontally instead of vertically like Noctowl, it's a quiet flier able to sneak up on prey undetected, and like an owl it has powerful talons. They look stubby, but Rowlet's fainting animation seems to imply it's far thinner than it appears at first and the feathers are covering up a sleeker body so presumably its actual legs are longer which is more obvious upon evolution. None of them learn any kick-based attacks, though.

There are two main species of owls that live in Hawaii---the introduced barn owl, and the native pueo owl. Rowlet takes after the former visually, and as a Starter Pokemon this works in terms of lore since as we never find one in the wild, we can assume they were brought over at one point specifically to give as Starter Pokemon. Or, that's how you can view it. Honestly no game has yet to explore the exact nature of why Starter Pokemon are made Starter Pokemon, and I really wish they'd address this eventually. The pueo owl looks simillar enough to the barn owl that searching it brought up a page explaining how to tell the difference, and the main one seems to be the pueo is much darker. It would've been neat if Game Freak referenced this with Rowlet's Shiny being a dark shade of brown and green, but alas they didn't go this route. But overall, it doesn't subtract from the fact Rowlet is an absolutely adorable design and a worthy owl-based Pokemon to add to the roster.

In the anime, Rowlet is Comedy Relief Pokemon 101. Since Diamond and Pearl, one of the Starter Pokemon has been relegated to this role---it was Piplup at first, then it was Oshawott, then it was Chespin, and once more the Grass-type Pokemon takes up the tradition. But, truth be told, Rowlet is indeed cute and its design makes it ripe for comedy so it's no surprise they chose it. Ash's first capture in the Alola Region, Rowlet lived among a family of Pikipek and its evolutions---I wonder if its birth parents will ever appear?---before joining up with Ash. In general Pokemon in the Sun and Moon anime appear in their PokeBall far less than usual due to the fact the gang isn't traveling this time around and instead just "hang out", and Rowlet follows this mantra in that it instead usually takes a nap within Ash's backpack when not needed. There's even official merchandise in Japan of this. And that's pretty much Rowlet's personality, it's a clumsy sleepyhead that's a bit of a glutton. There's some depth to it though like most Sun and Moon Pokemon in that it eventually forms a protective relationship with Ash's Meltan, but for the most part it exists to look cute and be marketable. And it works, seeing as Rowlet is like the most popular Alolan Pokemon according to polls I've seen in the past.

To be fair to Ash's Rowlet, it isn't a weak Pokemon. It's actually shown to be able to hold its own when it gets serious with surprisingly powerful kicks and has steadily gained new moves as the show has progressed, but as Sun and Moon puts battles on the backseat mostly this isn't saying much. There's a running joke in the show where Rowlet constantly bothers Mallow's Bounsweet/Steenee/Tsareena due to being attracted to its smell, and once it evolved past Bounsweet it began kicking Rowlet to punish it. Eventually, this was weaponized as the "Certain-Kill Mokushoot" (JP name) which basically has Rowlet being used as a makeshift soccer ball in an Inazuma 11-style finisher. By the way, they actually gave a neat reason as to why Rowlet won't likely evolve anytime soon. It accidentally swallowed an Everstone, and though it can cough it up, it decided to keep it. Why? Because it uses the Everstone as a makeshift Seed Bomb, which is honestly a pretty fun idea to incorporate. I was pleasantly surprised when I reached that plotpoint.

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#723 - Dartrix
Grass/Flying

At Level 17 Rowlet evolves into Dartrix. There's not much to say about Dartrix in that being dual-Type in the second form isn't anything special, even more so when you lose said secondary Type upon the next evolution, and the moves it learns around this point are fairly disappointing. Pluck is the only useful move due to STAB, though once again it loses that upon evolution, otherwise it just gets Foresight and Fury Attack. Synthesis allows it to heal though to keep it longer lived, though at this point its high HP has begun to peter off a bit. All of its stats are about on equal ground and there's nothing much to say about it in terms of remarkability, so let's keep this section brief shall we?

Dartrix is, well, a dart/knife thrower? Shooting off its feathers was an element of Rowlet's design expressed in official art and communicated through its moves, but wasn't necessarily a key feature of its overall design---Dartrix makes it more prominent in its name and design. Notably it has what appears to be sheathed orange feathers hidden under its wings which it deploys as makeshift knives and is said to be quite dexterous. It can alter their trajectory and sense a sneak attack quite easily and launch a counter sneak attack, so one could say it's the Hol Horse of Pokemon. It loses most of its thicker feathers in this stage as well slimming down, which also helps communicate the idea of it being a sharpshooter since its body is literally sharper and more aerodynamic now. Here we see the true length of its powerful legs. I'm not sure why they decided to mix an owl with a projectile user honestly, but as owls are known to be stealthy hunters I think it works. Perhaps there's wordplay here as well, as in Japan the word for owl, "fukurou", and the Japanese pronunciation of "throw" are close enough the Japanese name just combined the two into Fukuthrow.

As mentioned before Rowlet has a bit of a "dapper" look with its bow-tie, and Dartrix takes this further in that it's basically a dandy Pokemon complete with a stylish fringe and a design that gives the impression it's wearing a fancy coat, a bit like Prinplup in a way. But while the latter was a more regal appearance, here it's more of a trickster nobleman. For some reason, everytime I look at Dartrix I see Team Rocket's James for whatever reason. Like, if it was voiced, I'd hear James' voice coming from its mouth. It's said to be obsessed with cleanliness and its appearance which I assume is a reference to birds preening themselves. Owls in particular are known to have comb-shaped feathers which help their stealthiness, so I'm guessing Game Freak decided to literally have it comb itself in this case? Preening also helps birds adjust their feathers to be better suited for flight, so perhaps Dartrix does this to help its combat capability as well? Though then again, considering it's said Dartrix cares more about its appearance than winning in some cases maybe it's just a neat freak.

Dartrix has had one appearance in the anime under the ownership of Hau, who despite being prominent in the games didn't pop up till the tail end of Alola. As you can imagine Hau and Ash become quick friends, though Dartrix strikes up a rivalry with Rowlet. In particular Dartrix is annoyed by how Rowlet's feathers aren't neat, constantly preening the little Pokemon to no avail. There's an initial fight, Dartrix wins, but Rowlet wins the rematch thanks to learning Seed Bomb and Ash utilizing a Z-Move. Ash using a Z-Move to win against an opponent without a Z-Move seems like it's cheating almost, but considering Hau was training to take on his grandfather Hala, who has access to a Z-Move, Ash is actually doing Hau a favor to show what to expect. We haven't seen Hau since, but it's said he'll pop up in the Alola League and I imagine Dartrix will have a decisive battle with Rowlet to settle their 1-1 record.

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#724 - Decidueye
Grass/Ghost

The final form of Rowlet obtained at Level 34, Decidueye trades out its Flying-type for the Ghost-type. This was quite unexpected because Pokemon switching their secondary Typing is quite rare, even more so for a Starter Pokemon to do it. As a Grass/Ghost Pokemon Decidueye switches out its Immunity to Ground for Fighting, both are pretty dangerous offensive Types so that's a fair enough exchange, and switches around other weaknesses/resistances---it's kind of weird to have to readjust to that honestly, and I wonder if that annoyed any Rowlet players? Also it now learns the "???" version of Curse being a Ghost-type Pokemon, though learning the move requires a Farfetch'd via Pokemon Bank so most players never got a chance to have a Pokemon learn both versions of Curse.

Decidueye upon evolving learns its signature move Spirit Shackle, which ironically is the only Ghost-type Pokemon move it will learn upon leveling up following its change to a Ghost-type Pokemon. A powerful Ghost-type move, it also restricts the opponent from fleeing---a useful move both for battle and to aid in catching Pokemon that run the risk of escaping, though I don't recall Alola having many Pokemon with that capability. The move can be upgraded with the Decidium Z to transform into Sinister Arrow Raid, which is far more powerful but loses the additional effect. There are other Ghost-type moves it can pick up via the Move Relearner and TMs, but otherwise besides Leaf Blade it doesn't get any new STAB moves. Instead, it gets Sucker Punch (honestly useful to counter other Ghost-type Pokemon and help its Speed issue), some additional Flying-type moves, and ends things off with Nasty Plot. A bit odd since it errs on the Physical side of things, but it's Special Attack is decent enough to utilize it.

Unfortunately Decidueye is slow. That's a common theme for all Alolan Pokemon, but as the first Alolan Starter to have its final stats revealed it bummed a bunch of people out---he's actually the fastest of the three, but the stigma of being a slow Pokemon has never left. It's quite unfortunate too when you realize its signature move is all about trapping an opponent, which feels lackluster when most Pokemon can outspeed you before you're capable of using it. In general, the impression I get is Decidueye is the worst of the Alolan Starters due to the fact it doesn't excel in any stat in particular. The high HP it boasted as Rowlet literally stopped in its tracks as it has the same HP as Dartrix does, and it's not particularly sturdy so it'll often get taken out before it can do much. Competitively it doesn't seem to be anything special as far as Starter-type Pokemon go, though all the Alolan Starters appear to be about on the same level so it isn't that wide of a gap between it and Incineroar/Primarina.

Also Long Reach is an odd Hidden Ability. It reminds me of Chesnaught's Bulletproof which just seems too oddly specific to be seen as an ample asset. It prevents contact-based moves from triggering contact-based Abilities, and there are a sizable amount of those and Decidueye learns a fair amount of contact moves, but I just don't see that as a useful Ability a majority of the time. All the Smogon sets I saw just suggested sticking with Overgrow, and you know something's unremarkable when it plays second-fiddle to the generic Starter Abilities!

I realize I kind of got a bit negative about Decidueye, and to be honest I feel he sort of "failed"---so, let's recall the great Alolan Starter leak. I was always #TeamReal, and the first thing I noted about Decidueye was it seemed they took Greninja and Hawlucha, two of the more popular Generation VI Pokemon, and combined it. Decidueye looked like he was going to be a badass OP Pokemon like Greninja that The Pokemon Company would hype, and then he sort of faded away? Now he isn't forgotten, but it seems The Pokemon Company favored Incineroar far more. Sure, Decidueye got into Pokken DX, but that doesn't compare to getting into Smash Bros. with the big boys. Sakurai of course thought about including him, but decided against it. My best guess is because Decidueye just overlaps with pre-existing characters a bit too much as while a ghost character is unique, Decidueye doesn't quite play up that role as much as other Ghost-type Pokemon do. On the other hand he's a green archer, which we have three of in Smash Ultimate in the Links, and then you add in Pit and Dark Pit as winged archers and, yeah, Incineroar was the better choice.

I've yet to purchase Pokken DX, but I will say Decidueye has never looked right in 3D. Something about his hand-feathers and legs just work better in his official art whereas when you see them rounded and moving, they just look dorky? It's hard to explain, but he doesn't sit right with me in his S/M model or his Pokken Model. I would be interested to see what he'd look like in the Smash Ultimate style, as I feel like Sakurai did a pretty good job with Incineroar who I also thought looked a bit off in his 3D model compared to his official art. I guess there still could be a possibility for Decidueye as DLC as Pokemon certainly has enough clout to warrant it, but I imagine they'll go with a Generation 8 Pokemon instead of what will be "old news" since Decidueye hasn't proven itself to be a long-lived Pokemon yet in terms of popularity.

As far as Ghost-type Pokemon go, there's nothing really ghostly about Decidueye---it has a bit of an ominous shading around its wings in the official art, and its face is hidden in shadow, but rather its Ghost-type seems to be more symbolic than other Ghost-type Pokemon who are visually ghosts. Owls in general due to their silent nature, propensity for darkness, and general eeriness are often associated with the supernatural, and this extends to Hawaiian culture where the pueo owl was believed to be one of the forms an ancestor would take to watch over their descendants. I don't even know if Game Freak necessarily considered that though because the "Aumakua" take a variety of animal forms and nothing about Decidueye really relates to being a guardian. I think simply "ghost owl" just works on its own.

Another theory is that they represent the extinct stilt-owls that once lived on Hawaii, and thus could be considered ghosts---I feel this has more weight to it because the focus on long legs and the lack of the Flying-type fits the fact that stilt-owls were believed to be mainly terrestrial. Interestingly one suggestion for their extinction was due to the introducing of foreign rats. Considering it has a weakness to the Dark-type Alolan Rattata, this is a neat little coincidence that again I don't think Game Freak even considered. Also there's a theory among Pokemon fans that all the final Grass-type Starters take after extinct animals (dinosaurs, ancient mammals), so a stilt-owl would fit into this pattern as well though a bit more liberally since it co-existed alongside humans at one point.

Oh yeah, and now it's Robin Hood. When I think of Hawaii, I think of Robin Hood after all. In all seriousness, it kind of works because Robin Hood is a figure associated with Britain, and you know that's an island. I sound sarcastic, but quite a few Pokemon in Alola are based on animals from other notable islands---the obvious one being Komala---so maybe that influenced them? There's no relationship between Robin Hood and owls either, though there's a pun in two language---first, a robin is a bird, an owl is a bird. Speaking of which, Fletchling is a robin and has an arrow motif as well. Do you think Decidueye could team up with it and fire it off? Second, once more in Japan an owl is called "fukurou". Hood in Japanese is pronounced "fu-do". I was thinking about this the other day but quite a few Pokemon seem to have originated as Japanese puns, so it isn't too crazy of a theory. Also in some stories Robin Hood was a nobleman before becoming an outlaw, so it evolving from the noble-looking Dartrix is a nice representation of that.

In the anime Decidueye has made two small appearances in a Battle Royal. It died to Incineroar. That's legit the extent of its anime appearances. I feel like Hau's Dartrix will probably become one by the Alola League, but seriously if you judge how much The Pokemon Company loves a Pokemon by anime appearances Decidueye is literally below like every Alolan Pokemon at this point.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,898
I feel bad for Decidueye. He's literally Empoleon 2.0, a rad bird starter that TPC doesn't give a shit about because it's first form is cute.
 

Wiped

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,096
Oh lord I'm so glad this thread is back

Can't believe it was 3 years ago I was obsessively reading every entry back at the old place
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,296
Rowlet is a top-tier design and probably my single favorite design of all. It's just perfect, and adorable. The anime makes it even better, it's really amazing. And Decidueye is cool as well which is a relief.
Tons of similarities with the Piplup line also, which happens to be one of my favorites along with Togepi's lol
 

JCW

Member
Oct 26, 2017
459
I like Rowlet and I like Decidueye but I'm gonna be honest, Dartrix looks like Tim Buckley.
 

Deleted member 3815

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,633
I like the Rowlet line but I was annoyed when I heard that Decidueye got cut over the fake fire/fighting cat.

I also didn't know that Ash's Rowlet ate an everstone, such a derpy Pokémon.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,296
Oh and I almost forgot, Rowlet can actually rotate its head both horizontally and vertically
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,237
Rochester, New York
I was wondering if you were going to do this for the Alolan Pokemon

Decidueye is great if your favorite type is Ghost and you love owls. I happen to be both, so it's perfect for me.
 

Joltik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,762
Yes! I was wondering when the Pokemon Retrospective was going to come back for the Gen VII mons.

Rowlet is an adorable borb, but I wonder how much Decidueye's fans were disappointed when Ash's Rowlet swallowed that Everstone? Hope not too much, because Rowlet gave us some meme faces in the show.
 

Common Knowledge

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,248
Birdie, do you happen to have a place to view all your past entries in this besides the old place? Just curious.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,296
Yes! I was wondering when the Pokemon Retrospective was going to come back for the Gen VII mons.

Rowlet is an adorable borb, but I wonder how much Decidueye's fans were disappointed when Ash's Rowlet swallowed that Everstone? Hope not too much, because Rowlet gave us some meme faces in the show.
I was HAPPY. Rowlet's personality is too precious to be wasted evolving
 

Deleted member 3815

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
6,633
Yes! I was wondering when the Pokemon Retrospective was going to come back for the Gen VII mons.

Rowlet is an adorable borb, but I wonder how much Decidueye's fans were disappointed when Ash's Rowlet swallowed that Everstone? Hope not too much, because Rowlet gave us some meme faces in the show.

Honestly it was obvious that his Rowlet wasn't going to evolve but his Torracat would, given its back story and how popular Incineroar is.

Either way I stopped watching the Sun and Moon animé as I got bored of watching Ash go to school rather than exploring the region and doing gym battles, though I wonder what his full team line up will be.
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,663
Yes! I was wondering when the Pokemon Retrospective was going to come back for the Gen VII mons.

Rowlet is an adorable borb, but I wonder how much Decidueye's fans were disappointed when Ash's Rowlet swallowed that Everstone? Hope not too much, because Rowlet gave us some meme faces in the show.
There's always Hau now I guess
 
OP
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Birdie

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
So I did a quick refresher and yep---Decidueye has LITERALLY been seen the least amount of any Gen VII Pokemon in the entire show bar Kartana and Melmetal, who have yet to appear, and Marshadow, but it got a film.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,089
Great to see the series carry on again. I recall reading all the prior ones on the build-up to Sun and Moon.

And man, as someone who picked Decidueye as my starter... I'm still bummed Incenaroar got into Smash over him,

Stop putting Starters in Smash Sakurai! Your splitting the fan base in 3 right out of the gate doing that! Go with something like Tapu Koko in future cases. A Legendary everyone will get and everyone can get behind.
 

JazzmanZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,382
nice, do you happen to have your writeups for the previous pokemon somewhere now?
 
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Birdie

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
Aren't they done with Ultra Beasts? Is Kartana just not going to appear at all?
They finished the main Ultra Beast plot awhile back with Necrozma, but they gave episodes to Guzzlord and Pheromosa afterwards.

Karatana just had his episode revealed in Japanese magazines and it's airing next month I believe. So they would've used all of them.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,300
Oh, I remember that old thread.
Another element of Rowlet I enjoy is how it ditches the usual color-scheme of most Grass-type Pokemon much like Chespin did, for a unique cream-colored design.
That's one of the things I liked about the Cyndaquil line, it's nice to have starters change that up every now and then.
 

Deleted member 3815

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,633
Sakurai picks. He actually considered Decidueye, but decided on Incineroar because he wanted to design a wrestling character

He was presented a choice and then chose his picking on them. Sakurai has stated that The Pokémon Company are the hardest to work with in terms of getting Pokémon into the game.
 
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Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
Rowlet's Pokemon line is probably the most passionate I've ever been with any Starter Pokemon. Weird considering Frogs are my favorite animal and I didn't care about Froakie until Greninja was leaked a week before X & Y release. Rowlet being SPHERICAL is still adorbs. His cocky rich boy middle evolution is great, and Decidueye is indeed Greninja level of cool.

Praise the owl!
 

Crashman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,100
Good to see this series back.


I kind of wish I had gotten Rowlet instead of Litten. The edgey kid in me must have still wanted that black and red tiger. I kind of few Dartrix is kind of bleh looking, but Decidueye makes up for it in the end, so everything ends up, well, right? I've made my peace with it, but its the one that should have gotten into Smash rather than Incineraor.
 
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Birdie

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
So yeah I forgot to mention the packaging of the Rowlet merchandise looks like Ash is showing his butt off.
 

cdm00

The Fallen
Dec 5, 2018
2,225
I loved this thread on the old place when I used to lurk! It was one of my favorite threads.
On topic now, Decidueye is the coolest out of the Gen 7 starter bunch imo, but I still went with Popplio my first time in Alola.
 
Litten, Torracat, and Incineroar
OP
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Birdie

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
gaxCGL8.png

# 725 - Litten
Fire

The Fire Starter of Generation VII, Litten lacks the uniqueness of Rowlet. It doesn't have a secondary Type from the get-go, even though it could've begun as a Dark-type without much fuss since that isn't a particularly powerful Type nor does it mess with the initial Type Triangle. I think fans would've been relieved to have had solid confirmation from the very beginning the Fire-type wouldn't evolve into a Fighting-type, though I guess Decidueye changing Types means that could theoretically still be on the table, and would've saved months of people debating over the exact nature of Incineroar.

Litten was my first Starter Pokemon in Alola, and a departure from my usual trend of picking Grass-type Pokemon. The reasoning behind this was two-fold: I really, REALLY liked Incineroar when he was officially confirmed to be legit, and I was dead-set on my Grass Pokemon being the amazing Lurantis. I was half-right in my decision because Litten proved to be a valuable teammate, but unfortunately whatever Game Freak was on when they decided upon Lurantis' stat spread I'll never know. Litten is probably the best Starter to go with because it has a focus on offense and speed (for now), which is typically the funnest way to experience the scenario of a Pokemon adventure even if it isn't the most rewarding. Before evolving it even picks up Fire Fang, which is quite powerful early on, and has an interesting move in Lick allowing it to either burn or paralyze Pokemon. Also as of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon it learns a Fighting-type attack in Double Kick right before it evolves, which would've been an effective troll had Litten learned this in the initial games to scare Fighting-type fearfuls.

So, Litten is a cat Pokemon. I'm a cat person, but I've never liked any of the cat Pokemon much bar Meowth. And that's not because he's a cat, but rather because of his personality in the show. Skitty's cute enough, Glameow and Purrloin are forgettable, and I find Espurr to be overrated, and there might be some other cat Pokemon I forgot about but that's the ones people think of when it comes to the mandatory cat Pokemon. I like Litten though. The reason being is that it reminds me of my deceased cat, Sega, and because re-contextualizing a "Com Mon" trope into a Starter gives it an odd sense of freshness. Like we have a glut of butterfly/moth Pokemon, but I'd be pretty hyped to see one of those appear as a Starter. It's implied to be based on the feral cat population of Hawaii, less domesticated than say Skitty or Glameow, which is a big ecological problem in the real world as they're responsible for threatening native life. There's no wild Litten in the games though due to Starters having to be rare, so that connection is a bit loss when you only see one the entire adventure.

See that mark on its head? That's the alchemical symbol for sulfur. Okay, seriously, Game Freak has clearly referenced alchemy elsewhere and Japanese folks love referencing that as much as Alice in Wonderland and Lovecraft, but I think fans are going a bit overboard here. Litten draws inspiration from a tabby cat, which is any breed of cat known for having stripes along their body. Usually they have an "M" pattern, but Litten trades it out for a double-lined "T". This simply seems to be a reference to that stripe shape often seen on the heads of tigers, hinting at its evolution, and a quick google search shows that other anime cats have the same pattern appearing on their head. Unless Game Freak says otherwise, I'm chalking this up to coincidence. Folks expanded on this and claimed Rowlet and Popplio reference alchemical symbols as well, which feel even more forced than this example. I mean I'm deep into Pokemon and some of my theories are a bit out there, but yeah this seems too much for me.

As a Fire-type Pokemon, I enjoy Litten for ditching the usual design philosophy as it's a cool black-and-red as opposed to the bright orange or yellow we usually see, and there's no visual flames anywhere---instead it coughs up fiery hairballs and sheds its fur through self-immolation, which I find pretty hilarious. Likely why they're not good pets either, considering how dangerous that would be. Its design is a bit emblematic of the big head, small body philosophy of a lot of modern Pokemon designs, but I think its cooler and mischievous personality helps it stand out when so many of the other Pokemon with that design type have a big grin. Like, imagine Litten with the Ohmura "chipmunk" face, and that would be horrible. I like that of all the Starter Pokemon it just doesn't seem to care. It's not even smug like Snivy, it just looks like it's looking for a way to get out of here and go mind its own business.

Ash's Litten in the show rules. Like a lot of Fire-type Pokemon Ash has had in the past it was introduced as suffering in some form. In this case it's a mischievous street cat that steals to help its friend Stoutland, who is basically dying. And, yeah, Stoutland eventually unambiguously passes away. But hey, now Litten can join up with Ash without abandoning its friend so that's cool. Litten's pretty much Ash's cat, in that it acts like a cat in a lot of scenes as it's a bit more relaxed than the other Pokemon and sometimes looks down on their sillier antics. It's no slouch when it comes to battling, however, and eventually evolved into Torracat in order to take on Masked Royal's Incineroar. Another cute touch is fellow cat Pokemon Meowth has respect for Litten despite being on opposing sides, referring to it as "honcho" and cheering for it whenever it isn't conflicting with the goals of Team Rocket.

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# 726 - Torracat
Fire

At Level 17 Litten evolves into Torracat. Like Dartrix its natural moveset in this stage is a bit disappointing with Bite being the only real standout, though Fire Fang is good enough still to keep carrying it forward. Furthermore the line has a great selection of TMs at their disposal which can give it a surprising amount of versatility, and as TMs begin to appear more frequently around the point you get Torracat it can stay relevant quite easily. It's one of the quicker Pokemon of Alola as well, and with good attack it can take things down handily without much fuss. If you LOVE using quick Pokemon and find 85/80 base offense to be good enough for the in-game, you might want to invest in an Eviolite.

Torracat is a pretty bulky looking cat, with an oddly muscular body---originally I thought it looked a bit uneven in terms of weight distribution when I saw the official art, but the anime has helped it grow on me and now I think it's easily the best mid-form of the Alola Starters. It's less of a tabby cat though and more of a large cat now, a tiger cub you could say, though it actually becomes more domesticated at this point. Considering that the only way to obtain a Torracat (in-game at the very least) is to raise a Litten, there's the idea that it eventually warms up to its Trainer, and this can be seen in its PokeDex entries. Though one must be careful, as it can become too spoiled if not careful. The fiery bell on its neck is a neat way to represent its domestication and growing bond with its Trainer as bells are typically given to cats as a symbol of domestication. It's a nice touch. It also no longer has a "I'm bored" look, now it looks like it's ready for a fight fitting a Trainer's Pokemon.

But what you're probably here for is the sinking feeling that looking at Torracat, you begin to notice certain "signs". Wow, it sure looks a bit muscular, doesn't it? And with the change in the distribution of its fur, doesn't it look like it's wearing some sort of mask? And you know, bells aren't just used to represent pets, they're also used in professional fighting. And what's that in its PokeDex Entry---IT CAN PUNCH? But thankfully as we know now, no, it didn't become a Fighting-type technically, although it is a Fighting-type in spirit. It actually didn't learn a single damaging Fighting-type attack without breeding till USUM gave the line Double Kick---instead of the more lore sensible punching attack---so that's kind of odd. Of course I recall by the time we saw Torracat, we knew Incineroar was a Dark-type (or at least suspected it, we definitely saw Incineroar's design months beforehand) so unless you went into Sun and Moon blind you didn't experience that panic but, damn, Game Freak really wanted to make this line Fighting-type Pokemon aesthetically.

Ash's Litten evolved into Torracat in order to attempt to overcome Masked Royal's Incineroar, which is one of the neater rivalries in Pokemon history. We've seen similar "pre-evolution vs evolution" rivalries before, notably Pikachu vs. Raichu, but the dynamic of this rivalry is a bit nicer since not only is Torracat a fleshed out character, Incineroar is as well. Incineroar isn't merely a "jerk" like Raichu is usually depicted as when paired against Pikachu, it explicitly wants to see Torracat get stronger and knows the best way to do so isn't to go easy on the Pokemon and hurt its pride, but hold nothing back. It's unknown if Torracat will evolve eventually, though I don't think it will. For one, there's no visual difference between two Incineroar, so I think it'd be a bit odd to see them fight when neither one is distinct. Second, Sun and Moon seems to like to have Ash's Pokemon be his "pets", and I think pulling off that dynamic with Incineroar would be a bit odd. Considering Ash's mom is shown to be fond of Litten, I imagine it'll stay as a Torracat and in the end go to Pallet Town and hang out alongside her and Mr. Mime at Ash's house as opposed to being sent to Oak's Lab.

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# 727 - Incineroar
Fire/Dark

At Level 34, Torracat stands up and becomes Incineroar. Against all odds it is NOT a Fire/Fighting Pokemon, but rather Fire/Dark. Not only is that unique among Starter Pokemon, it's a fairly unique Type in general since it hasn't been used since Generation II's Houndour and Houndoom, though I guess technically it was used last Generation with Mega Houndoom. In a way, Incineroar taunting fans by basically being a Fire/Fighting Pokemon, but not really, is pretty true to its character. That's probably giving Game Freak too much credit, but you can't deny that Incineroar pissed off a lot of fans by playing into fan expectations only to subvert it in the end, but in a way that might be even more aggravating. But besides being almost a Fire/Fighting Pokemon, could they piss of folks more?

It gets slower. Pokemon losing stats upon evolution is an oddity, except for gimmicky Pokemon. Of all the stats to get weaker upon evolution, however, Speed makes the most sense but this is usually averted for Pokemon for gameplay sake. Torterra is faster than Turtwig, for instance, even though Turtwig would logically be nimbler due to having less weight it has to lug around. But for Incineroar they dropped its Speed lower than Litten's, and it's the only Starter Pokemon to see a decrease in stats. On the other hand it has solid bulk, with a nice Typing that gives it a decent amount of defenses, and can deal some heavy damage. It also has a surprisingly diverse movepool that makes it quite fun to use in the main game, with access to Outrage, Shadow Claw, and the newly buffed Leech Life. The low Speed is a shame, but found it fun enough to use thanks to the variety of coverage options.

Other than Bite, it won't learn any other Dark-type attacks naturally other than its signature move Darkest Lariat. It's a solid move that ignores changes to the opponent's Defense and Accuracy, but loses points for the hilariously awkward t-pose animation. It can be upgraded with the Incinium Z into Malicious Moonsault, which loses the additional effect but is super strong and, more importantly, far more badass. Canonically this move seems to suggest Incineroar can cause an entire wrestling ring to appear at will. It also has a second signature move in Throat Chop, which it can only learn via the Move Relearner. This was made widely available in USUM as a tutor move, but prior to that this was the only way to get it, and the only Pokemon who could get it otherwise would be a bred Sneasel. It's almost as powerful as Darkest Lariat and prevents the opponent from using sound-based moves, which are seen frequently enough to make it useful in places but not frequently enough to make it worth the trade in power from Darkest Lariat. It seems to be designed as a counter to Primarina, however, who uses such moves.

While Decidueye and Primarina got brand new Hidden Abilities, Incineroar sticks to Intimidate. This is for the best, though I would've liked to see something a bit more interesting, as Intimidate is a good Ability and one of the reasons why Incineroar is popular in the Doubles Format. Its main weaknesses are Ground, Fighting, Rock, and Water, so decreasing the Attack of the opponent is useful as the first three are typically Physical moves. Like you'd expect from a heel wrestler, it works best when teaming up with an ally due to useful support moves such as Fake Out, Taunt, and Knock-Off, allowing it to weaken the opponent while a faster partner cleans them up. As mentioned above it's popular in the VGC-format, but its slow Speed keeps it lower when it comes to Singles.

Tiger Mask is a popular manga series in Japan that centers on a tiger-themed wrestler known as Naoto Date who began his career as a "heel"---a bad guy---before turning into a hero in order to set a positive example for an orphanage. This series isn't that well known outside of Japan, but is a cultural icon in Japan with real-life wrestlers adopting the persona over the years as well as being homaged in popular media with Incineroar being Pokemon's example. Incineroar never quite made the jump to being a heroic wrestler, he's still a heel, and thus could draw inspiration from the various dark Tiger characters that Tiger Mask deals with. Much like how Tiger Mask became a role model for the orphaned children of Japan, Incineroar could be seen as a role model for the homeless Litten of Alola. As far as Dark-type Pokemon go, it's implied its more malicious aspects are probably played up for the crowd and may be a big softy inside.

Some people dislike how Incineroar looks due to its humanoid appearance, but as far as humanoid Pokemon go it doesn't bother me---don't google it though. There's a popular edit of it I've seen that redraws it as a regular bearded dude, and it works. My favorite part of its design has to be how it looks like its wearing a shirt with the sleeves ripped off. The fiery bell it had as a Torracat morphs into a flaming belt, which I think is a decent progression of that element of its design, but leads to the awkwardness of it firing fire from its crotch. The character model sheet for it also shows it using its crotch as a stovetop too which, is, uh, certainly something. In case you couldn't tell I'm a fan of its design, it's perhaps my favorite Starter Pokemon next to Torterra to the point I dumped using Rowlet first partially for it.

I don't think it's controversial to say Incineroar is the most popular of the Alolan Pokemon and this was cemented when it was added to Smash Bros. Ultimate. While his reveal pissed a lot of folks off mainly due because it was one of the final reveals alongside Ken and the oddball Piranha Plant---true to form once more---there's no denying his style of fighting is extremely fresh for Smash Bros. Well, almost. I always thought King K. Rool and Incineroar had a bit of crossover as big, heavy dudes, with K. Rool showing off some wrestling moves in his reveal trailer and also running on all fours, reminding me of the infamously awkward way they had Incineroar run in the I Choose You! movie. Thankfully they ditched this run animation for Incineroar, and K. Rool's looks far cooler, but when I first saw the King K. Rool trailer I thought to myself, y'know, this could easily be reworked into Incineroar's reveal trailer. At the very least, the Classic Mode banner seems to imply they're rivals of sorts which I've adopted into head canon. Yeah, I ship it.

Much like in the main games Smash Incineroar is slow, but hits hard with moves that can K.O. at low percentages. His Side B, the unique to Smash Alolan Whip, is easily his funnest move and has a lot of interesting uses due to how it works depending on your timing. On the other hand I forget Darkest Lariat is a move at times because it just lacks a punch and feels awkward due to how slow it is, which fits how bad the move looks in Sun and Moon I guess. But then you activate his Final Smash, Max Malicious Moonsault, and I got to say that's probably one of the coolest Final Smashes in the series. He also has a Big the Cat alt color which earns him extra points. I remember being a bit mixed on Incineroar getting in Smash originally when he was rumored, thinking Decidueye or Mimikyu might be cooler, but the execution won me over. He's easily one of my favorite Smash characters and I hope he sticks around in future titles if there are roster cuts.

So Incineroar was one of the newest Pokemon to be featured in the I Choose You! film, a retelling of Ash's Kanto adventure. Incineroar had a fairly prominent role in the film as the main Pokemon of Cross, Ash's edgy rival introduced in the film who is Damien + Paul. The original owner of Ash's Charmander in this timeline, him and Ash compete multiple times throughout the film with Incineroar beating Charmleon before later evolving into Charizard and returning the favor. It's pretty notable to its popularity that it was put up against Charizard, and alongside popular mascot Pokemon Lucario and Piplup,, as well as plot relevant Legendaries Ho-Oh and Marshadow, gets the most focus of a non-Kanto Pokemon in the film. This was the first impression I got that The Pokemon Company wanted to push Incineroar.

And then came the anime. So, for those of you who don't know, Professor Kukui is the Masked Royal. So far in the show, only Molayne and Faba are aware of this, though Ash's Torracat seems to suspect it, with Kukui going so far as to never show off his Incineroar to anyone when he's not in his Masked Royal persona. The one exception is Faba, and he only did so because he was losing to Team Rocket and needed to use his trump card. Considering Professor Kukui is basically Ash's dad in Sun and Moon, he appears quite a bit as the Masked Royal, and likewise so does Incineroar. It's almost a main character at this point as it had a decent amount of appearances under its literal belt, and pretty well developed. As mentioned before it has a mentorship towards Ash's Torracat, and an upcoming episode is going to showcase how it first met Professor Kukui as a Litten. Will this be the point that Ash pieces the connection between Kukui and Masked Royal together? Probably not. It's also implied that Kukui's Incineroar may be the final challenge to Ash in the Alola League, though like in USUM this might be subverted since that's what fans are expecting. I'd like to end this by saying Incineroar's focus episodes in the show are really fun because of the wrestling aesthetic. One episode has a dude driving his limo into the ring which is pretty much perfect.
 

Pata Hikari

Banned
Jan 15, 2018
2,030
Incineroar was, like, the most used Pokemon period in the last VGC season. Pretty sure it had a 90% usage rate.
 

Delio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,464
Incineroar was my starter of choice right from the start. Love him to bits and i love the rage he still brings people.
 

Joltik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,762
The Litten line was my Alola starter of choice because I wanted to try out a Fire/Dark type as my main in the story and the Pokemon Amie gifs of Incineroar won me over. Plus I like the idea of a Tiger Mask heel Pokemon. We got a Luchador Pokemon last gen, why not a Japanese inspired wrestler. Bonus points was that my Incineroar was female meaning she was a typical "feminine" Pokemon. :)

Incineroar over Decidueye is fine for smash since the series is long overdue for a wrestling rep, but why are there so many pictures of Incineroar with Isabelle?
 
OP
OP
Birdie

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
Your avatar reminds me I LOVE the episode of Sun and Moon where James and Faba bond over Royal Mask.

That's a plot I don't think any other season of Pokemon would've done, but Sun and Moon's switch in structure made it possible. I'm also shocked how entertaining Faba ended up being when he's a "nothing" character in the game.
 

Joltik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,762
Your avatar reminds me I LOVE the episode of Sun and Moon where James and Faba bond over Royal Mask.

That's a plot I don't think any other season of Pokemon would've done, but Sun and Moon's switch in structure made it possible. I'm also shocked how entertaining Faba ended up being when he's a "nothing" character in the game.

I liked that episode too though I was thinking of changing it as I had it since last year. It was kind of weird that everyone forgave Faba very quickly in the anime considering the questionable things his did/planned to do in the show such as erasing Lillie's memory. But I guess Team Rocket is similar in some ways.
 
OP
OP
Birdie

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
Nah Faba is totally on the up-and-up hey come to my wedding and oh yeah, why don't you swing by school too sometimes.
 

Wonderrade

The Wise Ones
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,217
Super nitpicky but I want to point out the darkest lariat is a pretty great move in smash. It has alot of use, most notably the arms will negate one attack and with revenge boost it forces the opponent to get hit or get their shield broken.

Other than that great stuff, please say great things about poplio though as its one of my wife's favorite pokemon. ;)
 

mjw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
540
Back on the subject of Decidueye, GF kind of shafted it by introducing Dhelmise in the same gen. Same typing, same strong trapping move, MUCH better ability, arguably better stats and movepool. Decidueye couldn't even have a unique gimmick in its own gen, damn shame
 

winstein

Member
Oct 28, 2017
593
Malaysia
I personally found Decidueye as the most ideal starter Pokemon, because it is a bird Pokemon (that is not Flying), Grass-type, and Ghost-type final evolution all in one. I agree that when it comes to a fighting game, Incineroar will be recognised as the Gen 7 Pokemon going forward only because it's in Smash, despite the fact that Decidueye had a spot in Pokken (a far less popular fighting game).

I am interested in what you are going to have to say about Dhelmise, who has the same type combination (but different permutation) as Decidueye. It would seem that Dhelmise's access to a similar signature move and higher Attack would put it at an edge, which in a way it is, but it's also at a lower Speed and have a weaker Ghost STAB.

Thank you for reading.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,121
Decidueye is the Green Arrowl

That's all that needs to be said