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Black Americans flock to gun stores and clubs: 'I needed to protect myself' - Gun ownership among Black Americans is up 58.2%
- Thread starter SilentPanda
- Start date
- News
Gun control is a lost battle. We're approaching 10 years since Sandy Hook and not shit has been done to stop another one from potentially happening.
Good.
Black people choosing to protect themselves against racial violence in a nation with a strong tradition of racial violence against them isn't a right wing talking.
Black people choosing to protect themselves against racial violence in a nation with a strong tradition of racial violence against them isn't a right wing talking.
The reasons for owning a gun do not change the outcomes of owning a gun.
To be frank, I can't blame them or anyone at this point.
The NRA and lobbyists have emboldened gun culture to the point where it feels feasible to individual, normal people that they need to protect themselves, because white terrorism is an active and constant presence in modern day America.
We need to dismantle gun culture but for whatever reason this is not happening, so here we are. No other country faces this issue because no other country has this constant fucking background noise.
The NRA and lobbyists have emboldened gun culture to the point where it feels feasible to individual, normal people that they need to protect themselves, because white terrorism is an active and constant presence in modern day America.
We need to dismantle gun culture but for whatever reason this is not happening, so here we are. No other country faces this issue because no other country has this constant fucking background noise.
People on the left do advocate for gun ownership especially socialists and communists.
There is also a huge difference between minorities feeling they have no other viable option but to own a gun to keep their families safe and a white supremacist who wants to hurt others that look different from themself.
Okay this is my real last post.
I agree it is a lost battle for now, but I have faith that the next generation will do something, anything, to help solve gun violence.
I hate hate hate hate gun culture.
No one here said anything remotely close to that. You're making shit up.
more guns always makes me uncomfortable, but I do not blame people for getting one for extra security just in case. I just want people to be responsible with their guns.
if your counter point to a marginalized group being threatened with violence is that they'd be better served begging for mercy......
I don't have enough words for the kind of person you are
I don't have enough words for the kind of person you are
If an R is elected 'Buy some guns while you still can'
If a D is elected ' Buy some guns before they announce a ban any day now'
Minority gun ownership rising in recent years means jack shit compared to the decades of gun hoarding thats been going on in this country
If a D is elected ' Buy some guns before they announce a ban any day now'
Minority gun ownership rising in recent years means jack shit compared to the decades of gun hoarding thats been going on in this country
Do you think a POC using a gun to successfully protect themselves from a murderous white supremacist is more or less likely of a scenario than a person of any race using a gun to successfully protect themselves during a home invasion?
I've never put someone on ignore through a quoted post before. That take fuckin winded me.
Maybe it's me assigning the worst motives but I often feel these weak appeals to compromise are rooted in the fact that these people actually do not want to address the underlying causes which are driving black America to buy guns at record rates. For instance, look at any thread here about the "Defund the Police" slogan. Much of the criticism of the slogan is made in bad faith and rooted in not wanting to actually make major changes because these white liberals benefit from the systems of racism. You see it reflected in NIMBYism and the use of police to keep black people out of certain neighborhoods in big cities. These aren't red areas...
You should just sit this one out, I think.
Is it a day ending in "-y"?
If the research on gun ownership was done during times where a disproportionate amount of gun owners were a bunch of rednecks and hicks who bought them fearing the brown horde and one world government, then no shit the data's gonna show that people owning guns endangers them more than it helps them because they bought them due to theoretical fears that have no basis in reality.
You keep talking about data and research as if the situation on the ground hasn't changed from when that study was done and actual historical examples of minority gun ownership saving lives during times of racial strife. Nobody here's going yay guns, we like guns. Apply some critical thinking here instead of trying to defer to research that may or may not be a) politically motivated, b) out of date, or c) disproportionately focus on dumbass hick gun ownership, or alternatively, had racial bias influence who did or did not participate
I think they're coming from the same perspective that I have, that you could use different means as protection and that guns are a step past that. Hence why I called it retaliatory several times in this thread.
People who go into it with the mindset of protection might not have the full grasp of what they have, while someone going in knowing that it's a retaliatory response might be better prepared for the responsibilities.
Or at least that's how I see it, stripping most of the nuance to keep this post from being too long, of course.
Can't blame 'em.
I don't yet feel the urge to buy a gun, but I understand it. Black people have been watching white folks stockpile and proudly brandish firearms for decades, to the point where you now have dipshits in Congress like Lauren Boebert staging their zoom backgrounds with them like they're modest home decor. We then saw some of these same white supremacists proudly march on the Capitol this year, only to be faced with a justice system that seems to think it's too much work to hand out even slaps on the wrist, much less anything resembling justice.
White supremacists are getting more radicalized, not less. Meanwhile, they're also armed to the fucking teeth. And the system has shown, time and time again, that they're not here to protect us.
And it's sad, but it is what is. A massive change from generation to generation in my own family: all of my younger cousins and siblings are getting training and licenses to carry, based entirely one what they're seeing play out in this country. That would have seemed crazy to my generation (and it's not like shit was a picnic when I was growing up).
I don't yet feel the urge to buy a gun, but I understand it. Black people have been watching white folks stockpile and proudly brandish firearms for decades, to the point where you now have dipshits in Congress like Lauren Boebert staging their zoom backgrounds with them like they're modest home decor. We then saw some of these same white supremacists proudly march on the Capitol this year, only to be faced with a justice system that seems to think it's too much work to hand out even slaps on the wrist, much less anything resembling justice.
White supremacists are getting more radicalized, not less. Meanwhile, they're also armed to the fucking teeth. And the system has shown, time and time again, that they're not here to protect us.
And it's sad, but it is what is. A massive change from generation to generation in my own family: all of my younger cousins and siblings are getting training and licenses to carry, based entirely one what they're seeing play out in this country. That would have seemed crazy to my generation (and it's not like shit was a picnic when I was growing up).
And once again you're missing the point.
GUNS ARE NOT MEANT TO SOLVE ANYTHING.
Guns are the result of society not solving the underlying issue. Getting rid of guns does not remove the problem. Your time and energy would be better suited to solving income inequality, improving education, and improving access to resources. Those three will drive down gun ownership, because gun ownership is driven by the lacking in one of those three areas.
Not sure, honestly. But I believe many of the white supremacist and racist attacks are due to the odds of minorities not being armed like white people. I'm not saying gun ownership in general is good. I think the opposite. I don't believe in it for myself and I believe guns should be banned. However, it's absolutely understandable why people who have been constantly attacked to want to do something that makes them feel safe and defend themselves. The alternative is a police force that hates them and is just as likely to hurt them as opposed to the person hurting them. That's not a real alternative.
Its going to be interesting seeing how the NRA will handle this in their diminished capacity right now.
I love that collegehumor video, its so true.
I am worried tho, this will no doubt lead to more police killings of minorities, so many examples in the past of black people informing officers they are carrying, its legal, and still they police kills them.
Please be safe everyone, I am against gun ownership but I understand people who feel they need it for their own protection, in a country with millions of guns out there.
I love that collegehumor video, its so true.
I am worried tho, this will no doubt lead to more police killings of minorities, so many examples in the past of black people informing officers they are carrying, its legal, and still they police kills them.
Please be safe everyone, I am against gun ownership but I understand people who feel they need it for their own protection, in a country with millions of guns out there.
There's a mass shooting every single day in this country. EVERY SINGLE DAMN DAY. You don't get to ignore that.
I can respect people of color being afraid and wanting guns to protect themselves, but you don't get to ignore the harm that they do every single day. The lives they take every single day. You want to make that choice then cool, but you don't get to close your eyes to it.
The good guys with guns and military hardware will save us all!
Just sucks that the bulk of policing is actually white supremacy, and it exacerbates the existential dread black people and all disenfranchised already feel and experience.
But it is easier to tut tut black people on gun ownership than to do what is needed to actually tackle gun control, or at least to get this military shit off the streets.
I cant let this dangerous post go unchallenged. You speak on the intelligence of gun owners that are part of these studies... what does intelligence have to do with committing suicide with the gun they own in their home?
That's obviously a more generous read than I gave it. It looks to me like a comparison between two groups, one desperate for any type of relief from the ongoing slaughter they face, and another that really enjoys military cosplay and killing people with impunity.
That might be because of my personal experiences with both groups and watching group one do the homework because they know a gun is a dangerous weapon, and watching group two habitually go, "drinking and shooting" for giggles.
Obviously both groups are gonna have individuals that do/don't take firearms seriously, but I'd put my chips on the last resort folks being more responsible owners pound for pound.
Do you have data of how many gun owners own more than 1 gun, only claim to own guns for sport and a breakdown of gun ownership by income?
Its just a feeling here, but I think there is a lot of gun owners who do not suffer these 3 issues you pointed out, and just own guns because they can. Do you have any data to support your thesis?
It sounds to me like this is happening because there's no scenario where being approached by a cop isn't a risk to their lives. Cops will murder literal children and get away with it. George Zimmerman was whiter than Trayvon Martin, so he got off scott free.
I don't want this to happen, but when you have two big problems wherein the US is hit with constant white terrorism and the people who are supposed to protect you then fucking shoot your sons dead, what the fuck are they supposed to think? How are they supposed to "see the big picture" when their lives are on the line?
I feel the same. Those types in this thread (and many others) are completely naive at best and supporting systematic oppression and targeted violence at worst.
Sure, but white liberals who want to finger-wag about the propagation of guns among black Americans don't get to ignore the harm that has been done to our people for centuries by racism either. Every damn thread on POC gun ownership on Era has one or more of these posters. It's tiring as hell.
Address America's culture and systems of racism. Then we wouldn't have to arm ourselves. But since this will never happen, what choice is there? Would you have us beg white supremacists and murderous cops for our lives?
Well, since we have documented instances of cops going rogue and joining racist mobs to harass minorities in their homes because they moved into the neighborhood, you probably would be in the right instances.
This is good news. IMO, all minorities should do the same, including Asian-Americans.
Exactly. We've been treated like second class citizens in this country for far too long. We're given harsher sentences for the same crimes that Caucasians have been committing because we have racial injustice/systemic racism, & we've always been the target of racist cops in which we get shot & killed for no real reason other than their racism. It's sickening, & we've had enough of it.
Exactly. We've been treated like second class citizens in this country for far too long. We're given harsher sentences for the same crimes that Caucasians have been committing because we have racial injustice/systemic racism, & we've always been the target of racist cops in which we get shot & killed for no real reason other than their racism. It's sickening, & we've had enough of it.
Truth be told, it's because it's not their blood, the blood of their kin, or their very lives which are at risk currently. They don't care about the material lives lost at the hands of racist institutions until it is comprised neatly in a overly dramatic theatrically released retelling, which they'll heap empty superlatives upon because that's the barest minimum of being an ally.
Then take a moment to consider who are the people primarily engaging in mass shootings. If you can respect minorities wanting to buy guns out of feeling the need to defend themselves or their families who are only now buying guns as racial tensions have escalated, have the decency to realize that equating them with the lunatics engaging in mass shootings is doing them an extreme disservice to put it politely. This is a ridiculous sidestep of why minorities are turning to guns and ignores every point brought up in this thread. Owning a gun because you feel you're forced to for self-defense is radically different than being the type of person who thinks guns can be recreational and likes to go down to the shooting range every other week and normalizes it to their kids.
Do you think I'm celebrating the need for guns here?
Challenge away, bud. If people are buying guns not because they want to but because they feel forced to, then I'm 'happier' with those people owning guns than any other group of people because I'd sooner trust them to be responsible than the recreational gun owners, preppers, or the actual lunatic racist conspiracy theorists or whatever overlap of the three these other gun owners fall under. And by 'happier' I mean made my peace with the fact that this is how America works, gun ownership isn't going away, and done some basic-ass introspection on who would be the focus of study in past gun ownership research to form my own conclusions. Because I think you, me and the overwhelming majority of this forum can agree that the type of person that stereotypically owns guns or are big into gun culture are the LAST people you want to own guns.
Is there going to be an increase in successful suicides despite attempts at responsible gun ownership? Yep. And there's nothing we can do about that because their decision is out of our hands and bemoan that this is how America is. Pretending like I'm ignoring the downsides of gun ownership is a nice lil' spin though, I'll admit.
Yes, those of us who have been hurt by gun violence are totally super fucking naive about guns. Totally the issue.
And white socialists going on about how great guns are, and posting pictures of their AK-47s and whatnot, they're totally on the up and up. They totally care about those of us who lost shit to assholes with guns.
I mean, sadly?
There really isn't a motivating factor to de-escalating a situation if you feel like you're 100% safe and in control. Sure, the 'I was afraid for my life' is the go to line when filing a police report but I would argue If they were actually afraid for their lives, some of these situations...particularly the wanton murder ones, would go down differently.
The reason why they can indefinately escalate shit is because at the end of the day, it works in their favor. But at that moment of a random incident, where three people are filming, are getting agitated, and are possibly armed during a police brutality moment...you might have to stop brutalizing the guy in handcuffs because you don't know what might happen next; you're now in danger and you're either forced to escalate lethally which you were already doing (but not in the literal line of fire) or de-escalate. And that's the thing about many of these incidents right, the cops are cool as cucumbers more often than not.
Is it going to stop an incident that pops into my mind where a rookie cop in a NYC housing project had his gun out against police procedure because he was scared to be there and shot a dude coming down a staircase minding his own business. No. Might make that even more likely. But something like the Floyd case where you've got bystanders pleading for his life and the cops are like, 'Nah', it makes you think.
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I don't blame people for feeling like they have no other options left. And I can see a case made for it when it comes to mobilizing as a group for a specific purpose. But overall, I don't see any other outcome than (needlessly) destroyed lives, so it's sad that it has to come to this. I don't know what can be realistically done.
You're missing the point.
Income inequality leads to crime. People don't have enough money, so they go and commit crimes. People are afraid of criminals, so they buy a gun to "protect themselves." If someone had the financial resources to meet their needs, they're less likely to go try to rob someone for it. Less income inequality, less criminals, less gun ownership to protect from criminals.
Improving education provides the resources necessary to teach people about different people and cultures. A lack of ignorance of differences leads to a lack of hate, which leads to a lack of racism. A lack of racism would lead to a lack of racist violence. A lack of racist violence would lead to a lack of minorities buying weapons to defend and retaliate against racist and racist aggression
Improving access to resources increases the likelihood of someone addressing an issue they have, be it mental health, financial instability, or medical costs. All of these have a direct impact on the previous two points.
People ignoring minority perspectives and playing the ally? Can't say I'm surprised.
There is no such thing as responsible gun ownership. Well maybe if the guns were kept in central location and required multiple authorizations to 'sign out'. Like a gun club taken to the next level but aside from that I cant imagine it. And that was not a spin, you said only hicks/rednecks/stupid people present a danger to themselves and others with guns. That's disrespectful to victims of gun violence to try and paint away the statistical realities.
The responsible gun owner is the one who takes gun training and locks the gun in a safe. That "responsible" person will know the password to the lock if they are ever in a self-harming state or aggravated state which most people cannot ever predict if or when they will ever be in that state no matter how thoughtful or responsible they are. The chances of negative outcomes are higher than the chances of positive outcomes.
Too be blunt, I see no reality in which increased gun ownership in the black community helps more black people than it hurts. It's not my right to tell black people what they should do, but I'm just looking at this as logically as I can. It's true that racially motivated white on black crime is increasing, but still don't see how the numbers add up to this being a good thing that won't end up with more innocent black people dying than before.
The increased deaths that are going to occur due to just owning the firearm in a household (minors finding the gun and accidentally shooting themselves/somebody else and suicide) will more than likely cost more lives than those that will be saved by the gun being used in self defense. It's the same issue with current gun ownership by white people, with the difference being the scenarios that PoC could think up to justify buying the gun are more likely to come to fruition. But still very unlikely.
Not to mention black people already have to deal with police lethally shooting them while unarmed, what's going to happen in a hypothetical situation where they justifiably defended themselves from a white person with a gun, or are searched with a gun on their person, them having a CCL be damned. Yes it's already a problem, but there's room for it to get even worse as fucking terrible that is to think of.
I promise you, I write this with the upmost sincerity. I may be anti-gun but you better fucking believe I would support this movement 1000% if I had any reason to believe it would help black Americans and PoC in general live more peaceful lives in less fear. But I just don't see how the statistics add up to this helping anyone, but would love to be proven wrong.
The increased deaths that are going to occur due to just owning the firearm in a household (minors finding the gun and accidentally shooting themselves/somebody else and suicide) will more than likely cost more lives than those that will be saved by the gun being used in self defense. It's the same issue with current gun ownership by white people, with the difference being the scenarios that PoC could think up to justify buying the gun are more likely to come to fruition. But still very unlikely.
Not to mention black people already have to deal with police lethally shooting them while unarmed, what's going to happen in a hypothetical situation where they justifiably defended themselves from a white person with a gun, or are searched with a gun on their person, them having a CCL be damned. Yes it's already a problem, but there's room for it to get even worse as fucking terrible that is to think of.
I promise you, I write this with the upmost sincerity. I may be anti-gun but you better fucking believe I would support this movement 1000% if I had any reason to believe it would help black Americans and PoC in general live more peaceful lives in less fear. But I just don't see how the statistics add up to this helping anyone, but would love to be proven wrong.
My kind and innocent cousin was shot in the head by a local gang that fired on her friend's house while she was walking through a hall. This doesn't change that Black communities in the US have historically been able to successfully defend themselves from threats of violence (often white people) with firearms when the police didn't do shit for them, like the events detailed in this book:
I understand the WANT to protect yourself. I just don't think buying a gun "just in case" is a smart way to go about it. It's like the image of a boogeyman encroaching in, and you, the one lone hero, saving the day - the "good guy with a gun." It's cowboy shit, that you can just buy one and magically the bad guy can't get you.
The response to a system problem has to be a systemic - cops aren't protected by their weapons, they're protected by a system. Buying a gun "for protection" is an individual response. Honestly, it's what the OP is about - forming organizations to counter aggressors. Weapons are the means to that end, not an end in-and-of themselves - the gun itself is neither the problem nor the solution, just a reality of American life. I'm disagreeing with some of the rhetoric in the thread more than the topic itself.
Anyone who is skeptical of guns offering any real kind of protection is white all of a sudden?
Here's the thing about people like you that wanna talk on the internet about reason. Mofos out here don't care about that. We just had a militia storm the capitol building. Miss me with that reason talk when white people are armed why can't everybody else be
User Banned (3 weeks): inflammatory accusations and commentary surrounding gun violence
Good. Not perfect, obviously, but better than waiting on all the broken promises to fix policing, let alone economic racism. Anti-gun fundamentalism hasn't done shit for anybody, and neither has the tunnel vision on gun ownership only being possible on the level of the individual.
Solidly stupid pronouncement when there's literally white supremacists marching and menacing people anytime they think they have an opening. But that's the 'progressive' way, pay lip service to the brutality of policing against minorities in one breath, and excoriate those same minorities when they have the gall to take steps to defend themselves and each other in the next. You're either with us or you're with the frothing NRA gun cultists!
I mean, a lot of those shootings are white supremacists slaughtering minorities so like....???
Why is this surprising? The state has absolutely failed to protect minorities in this country. In fact the state is the main reason a lot of them feel unsafe. If people can't rely on the state to protect them then of course they are going to look for alternatives which would include purchasing a gun.
I can't speak for other posters, only myself, but I'm a black socialist, and I'm not saying "how great guns are". There's a greater discussion about the right of the people to bear arms in a state and should the state have a monopoly on being armed but I'm not even going to bother with that now. What I'm saying is that conditions in the US have made gun ownership by black Americans desirable and perhaps even necessary. That's not on us, we didn't create these conditions, this is an outcome we've been forced to.
And so It's just not helpful to get lectured on black gun ownership as long as America remains a racist country with more guns than people.
You're right, of course.