• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
OP
OP
Dedication Through Light
Oct 25, 2017
22,309
Oh wow was really nice to go all in on the romance but then pull away for serious stuff. I guess Yami Charlotte will probably be canon at the end of the story, was hoping for another ship for him though Im alright with is being charlotte since they do have some sort of chemistry.

Asta being the voice of reason was great.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Very fun chapter! Charlotte actually steeling herself and revealing her feelings to her squad surprised me. I found it hilarious that they not only all accepted it and also weren't actually down with the "fuck all men" stuff to begin with, besides Sol, which does make her seem like more of a loser now. (Btw I'm betting the woman with the long black hair is the vice-captain, if only cause Charlotte was ready to resign from her captain role so it'd make sense for her VC to be there and her black hair makes her stand out from all the others)

Yami not actually knowing that Charlotte likes him shocked me too. I would've bet that her ki clued him in on her feelings awhile ago and he just couldn't be bothered to say anything until she confessed.

The final page is very interesting. I like that Dorothy is still awake, though I wonder how her power works for the reconstruction effort (is she just cleaning up or can she create stuff in her dream world and bring it into the real one?). And suggesting that Noelle is tied to curse stuff too for a while makes sense, given her mother's death in childbirth and her magic control issues. I'm looking forward to learning more about Acier, and potentially Papa Silva, and I'm glad that there's still cool Noelle developments coming up.

Asta being the voice of reason was great.
How smart Asta is getting kinda scares me haha
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,272
Alright Silfer Blackleg-sanji1 I'm finally doing this chapter 1

Okay so this dude has absolutely no magical potential whatsoever but because of that he unlocked "anti-magic", but I'm interested to see if "having anti-magic" extends beyond just his sword or whatever

Yuno surprised me with his fake-out on being the condescending type rival and I'm really glad he's not. That trope is a little played out by this point imo and instead I far prefer the "best friend dynamic"

Interesting is that Yuno received the grimoire specifically associated with the last Wizard King rather than just one that's otherwise really special

I feel like in another shonen the rival probably would have received a really great, high potential grimoire and the MC would have initially received nothing before finally unlocking his potential and HE would inadvertently receive the one tied to the Wizard King, Last Hokage, Pirate King

All in all interesting start nothing mind-blowing yet other than the fact that the clips I'd seen of Asta from the anime made him unbearable whereas here (I suppose because of the lack of having to actually hear the screaming) he's significantly more endearing and almost funny sometimes
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Alright Silfer Blackleg-sanji1 I'm finally doing this chapter 1

Okay so this dude has absolutely no magical potential whatsoever but because of that he unlocked "anti-magic", but I'm interested to see if "having anti-magic" extends beyond just his sword or whatever

Yuno surprised me with his fake-out on being the condescending type rival and I'm really glad he's not. That trope is a little played out by this point imo and instead I far prefer the "best friend dynamic"

Interesting is that Yuno received the grimoire specifically associated with the last Wizard King rather than just one that's otherwise really special

I feel like in another shonen the rival probably would have received a really great, high potential grimoire and the MC would have initially received nothing before finally unlocking his potential and HE would inadvertently receive the one tied to the Wizard King, Last Hokage, Pirate King

All in all interesting start nothing mind-blowing yet other than the fact that the clips I'd seen of Asta from the anime made him unbearable whereas here (I suppose because of the lack of having to actually hear the screaming) he's significantly more endearing and almost funny sometimes
Finally...
tenor.gif


I'll be looking forward to your thoughts on how Asta develops his abilities.

Yuno being actually supportive of Asta is something I really love. I don't love Yuno as a character, I only like him, but the Asta/Yuno rivalry is something I do love because unlike a lot of rivals, Yuno has high hopes and expectations for Asta and that's what drives him not to fall behind. It's cool to see.

And yeah Asta is way less annoying in the manga than the anime (God that first ep in Japanese is rough). He just comes off as really energetic here.

Glad you're finally reading this. I hope you enjoy what comes next.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
So here's a pretty cool thing about the latest chapter I just saw on Twitter. On the page where Charlotte talks about curses, this is shown:
IzfgsU1.jpg


Notice how it shows the grimoire changing color as the curse activates? Well


This is from volume 11. As per Tabata's tradition, the grimoire used as background belongs to the person on the front of the next volume which for Vol.12 was Charlotte. So that grimoire used for Vol. 11's background belongs to Charlotte and as you can see, it's red on one side, blue on the other, reflecting the change in the nature of Charlotte's magic. This is a really cool detail and bit of foreshadowing.

Though the panel itself is also very interesting in what it says and shows. Grimoires are the most important symbol of and tie to one's "life" in Black Clover, as hinted at by multiple events in the story, and so showing one while talking about the impact of curses on someone not only helps reinforce that idea, it also does a really good job of selling the weight that curses have and makes it easy to buy it when she says they interfere with the "shape of your life/soul". It's a really clever thing to do as we embark on this seemingly curse-focused saga of Black Clover.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
That is pretty cool. I really wish we'd get more information on how Grimoire function because they are one of my favorite concepts in the series, but I feel like we know so little about them.
Yeah they're a very interesting concept to me too. I honestly feel like we will learn more about them going forward because lately Tabata seems to be diving into the intricacies of concepts introduced a while ago like the various kingdoms, curses, devil powers, the Kira house, etc.

Off the top of my head, the big things we know about grimoires right now are:
-In the Clover Kingdom, you receive one at age 15, regardless of being human/elf. This doesn't apply elsewhere as Mars and Fana had grimoires when they were much younger. Though perhaps even in Clover you can get one earlier.

-Four-leafs that become Five-leafs are "Grimoires of Despair", presumably named after what the four-leaf holder has to go through.

-They start to fade out once the user is mortally wounded. Once gone completely, the user is known to be dead. (which by the way is why we all killed off you-know-who way too quickly lol. I think when someone dies for good, we'll be explicitly shown the grimoire disappearing and people commenting on it)

Even just from those, I have some questions. Like for example, do other countries have their own "special grimoires" like 4-leafs (that can become grimoires of despair)? Are the Spade demons able to possess their normal grimoires? Did Asta only get his grimoire when he did because that's when he actually felt despair and that was a condition?

Also, I remember I used to think they were recycled in some way because of Patry and Lumiere both having Light 4-leafs but their grimoire designs are different.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,272
Chapter 2+3

Okay I immediately like this dude who smokin but I feel like he's gonna turn out to be a huge asshole

Nvm he's a captain? An unruly one of an unruly squad... Asta deadass gonna end up there isn't he lol

DAMN he really gave homeboy the biz after flunking every other test lol

Something suss about Golden Squad man he looked weird at that grimoire I don't like it

Of course Yuno ends up there lol well shit somethin gonna go down

Hahaha I was right Asta is for real in best squad Black Bulls lets go

Man Him I seems a bit boring but he's such a bro I'll give em that he's really ride or die for Asta

Son Wtf goin on in their clubhouse lmao
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,272
My Shonen instincts are never wrong, my next prediction is this Noelle woman has a sad backstory and she will come around on being so arrogant and stuck-up! Captain Tami must have seen something in her!

I love that there's just a cage full of terrifying creatures

We have everything here!

A dining room!
A bathroom!
?̷̰̙͓͓̰̂͂̚?̴̛̫̏͒?̵̙̬̖̥͒́?̸̙̋̊́͝....

And your bedroom!
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,647
My Shonen instincts are never wrong, my next prediction is this Noelle woman has a sad backstory and she will come around on being so arrogant and stuck-up! Captain Tami must have seen something in her!

I love that there's just a cage full of terrifying creatures

We have everything here!

A dining room!
A bathroom!
?̷̰̙͓͓̰̂͂̚?̴̛̫̏͒?̵̙̬̖̥͒́?̸̙̋̊́͝....

And your bedroom!
That's a easy one come on first commander lol
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,293
It goes downhill for a bit after the first introduction of the hideout. The first few missions are boring.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,272
Okay so I was right about Noelle but I'm not bragging my when my captain expects more of me!

Her protecting the villages was wholesome and Magna and Asta using the strat for initiation was pretty clever

Damn these mfs iced themselves blood in and blood out I guess. Oh shit spooky silhouette man, a rising sun and a castle? Man okay this'll surely be important later just remember that symbol brain!

Lol at the bird still following him but why the stone thing? Also Noelle is pretty funny she's very quickly growing on me

Lol at the grandma being the Wizard King I like him already. And he personally requested Asta for this mission that's pretty cool, though I do wonder why.

This Luck is scary lol their obsession with battle while smiling brightly is so off-putting. YO THEM LIGHTNING BOOTS THO! Where tf is he going

UMMMMM THAT SUN SYMBOL FROM EARLIER IS THE CREST OF THE GOLDEN DAWN HUH? VERY INTERESTING......!!!

Ay its Yuno
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,272
Luck is cool yo

Noelle got fucking capped

Asta has a speed mode for his sword?

The villain is Zabuza but with mineral powers?

Golden Dawn glasses man ain't shit to the full squad drip of the Black Bulls, even Yuno couldn't do it

Lightning bois indeed!
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Man seeing these TBN's posts is making me want to re-read again even though I did that like 2 months ago haha.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
I still have a day or so before I'm totally up to date (chapter 196 now), but I have to say, Noelle rocks that Valkyrie armour. She's awesome; it's amazing how she could be this very cliche annoying character and yet she's really wholesome and heartwarming (much like Asta, come to think of it).

The dream world was really damn good. The art was on point (well, when isn't it?) and I loved how you basically have inception powers there, quite original. Even cooler is to have Dorothy appear out of nowhere thanks to that. Great teamwork there, love how Tabata uses all of the Black Bulls (although he should give my man Magna more to do tbh).

Also, that Charmy reveal, goddamn. It was hilarious how not even she knew she was that lol.

And... well. I just got to the fucking demon. I'll keep reading tonight before going to bed I think, but I can't wait to see the angle here. He looks creepy as hell.

I really wonder what will come after this arc, seeing how incredibly focused the manga has been regarding the elf plot. I'm assuming whatever might come of this demon revelation will be important.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
I still have a day or so before I'm totally up to date (chapter 196 now), but I have to say, Noelle rocks that Valkyrie armour. She's awesome; it's amazing how she could be this very cliche annoying character and yet she's really wholesome and heartwarming (much like Asta, come to think of it).

The dream world was really damn good. The art was on point (well, when isn't it?) and I loved how you basically have inception powers there, quite original. Even cooler is to have Dorothy appear out of nowhere thanks to that. Great teamwork there, love how Tabata uses all of the Black Bulls (although he should give my man Magna more to do tbh).

Also, that Charmy reveal, goddamn. It was hilarious how not even she knew she was that lol.

And... well. I just got to the fucking demon. I'll keep reading tonight before going to bed I think, but I can't wait to see the angle here. He looks creepy as hell.

I really wonder what will come after this arc, seeing how incredibly focused the manga has been regarding the elf plot. I'm assuming whatever might come of this demon revelation will be important.
The Noelle moment is still the most exciting part of the series for me. Got me way too hype. Though the Charmy reveal comes close. It was so well done.

Honestly, putting emotional aspect of fights aside, I think the dream world fight is not only my favorite in the series but also the most interesting one on a pure technical level. Even before it begins, there's a big "oh snap" moment with half of the hideout just vanishing and then we see they're in this really cool looking other world. And then once they're in, Sally has to test to properties of the world using the others' powers to understand that objects work like in the real world and she can trick Elf Dorothy to make objects appear which is so cool. And once the exit plan doesn't work, they all use their abilities to make her think the real Dorothy is there and so she ends up creating her and the dream can't support both of them. It's brilliant and I had not expected the fight to play out like that when we got there.

And then beyond just the sequence of events, there's a lot of fun character stuff there like Sally just geeking out over everything and finding out the real Dorothy's personality after all this time. I also love how the last plan relied on Luck's experience as an elf-possessed earlier in the arc.

So you had not gotten to the demon part before? That's interesting. You're basically at last part of the arc now. Curious to see what you think.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
The Noelle moment is still the most exciting part of the series for me. Got me way too hype. Though the Charmy reveal comes close. It was so well done.

Honestly, putting emotional aspect of fights aside, I think the dream world fight is not only my favorite in the series but also the most interesting one on a pure technical level. Even before it begins, there's a big "oh snap" moment with half of the hideout just vanishing and then we see they're in this really cool looking other world. And then once they're in, Sally has to test to properties of the world using the others' powers to understand that objects work like in the real world and she can trick Elf Dorothy to make objects appear which is so cool. And once the exit plan doesn't work, they all use their abilities to make her think the real Dorothy is there and so she ends up creating her and the dream can't support both of them. It's brilliant and I had not expected the fight to play out like that when we got there.

And then beyond just the sequence of events, there's a lot of fun character stuff there like Sally just geeking out over everything and finding out the real Dorothy's personality after all this time. I also love how the last plan relied on Luck's experience as an elf-possessed earlier in the arc.

So you had not gotten to the demon part before? That's interesting. You're basically at last part of the arc now. Curious to see what you think.
One has to guess that Noelle would eventually get the Water Spirit, but even without it, I'm shocked at how powerful she is, and I like how Nozel actually cares about her, although I think Tabata could have made him less cruel in the beginning. It was a bit too much even if it was kind of an act.

But yeah, Asta, Yuno and Noelle have gotten really far in a really short amount of time and it doesn't really feel wrong (the improvement is bigger in Noelle considering her starting point, as Asta and Yuno were already quite strong as soon as they got their Grimoires). I guess I'm used to the main female character being left behind fast, so I'm very happy with this.

I also like how Tabata mixes stuff up, like pairing Asta and Mimosa, or even Noelle with Jack (or Zora before). It's honestly a great use of his cast. If you like a character, chances are you're going to see him/her quite a bit. Hell, even fucking Revchi!

The dream world was really damn inventive indeed. I love how there's little emphasis on melee fights (for obvious reasons) and it's all about either elemental attacks or this kind of weird magic. Like Paint Magic, which results in insane doublespreads. And yeah, really liked Sally in there and Luck as well, I've grown to like him quite a bit. Even Yuno is being really cool lately, love his half-crown form and the fact that there's more to him than meets the eye.

Oh, and I'm really enjoying the whole thing with Patry and Litch and how it's all about perverting the latter's image, essentially. I wonder how he'll react and also what will happen with William.

And the demon part I hadn't seen, no. I'm very excited about it honestly. There's been already hints and straight out references to demons what with the giant demon skull, Asta's swords and all of that, so I can see them being the endgame. I just hope it doesn't take too much away from the humans' actions against the elves (the same way I hope Langris was an asshole on his own right, although there's a redemption path already set for him).

But yep, I think I precisely stopped around the dream world part. I probably had exams or something and was five or so chapters behind and then I just kinda "forgot" to continue, even though I really, really like the manga. I have a very short attention span and I had really forgotten about a lot of things regarding, for instance, Patry and Litch (even though it's not complicated at all). But as soon as I'm to date (like, following weekly new chapters and all), I'm in until the end (unless the manga takes a nosedive in quality).
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
56,647
I did a reread these last three days and I think it's safe to say Bc has the best female representation in today's battle shonen.
 

Mendrox

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,439
I did a reread these last three days and I think it's safe to say Bc has the best female representation in today's battle shonen.

I absolutely agree. Naruto, MHA, One Piece (lol) also have way way worse representation.

I mean, Charlotte, Charmy, Noelle, Meleo are all top tier characters and there are lots more like Grey or Vanessa. I imagine there is more to Grey too, because we haven't seen/heard her real name yet.

And there are also villains that are cool like Fana back then.
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,647
I absolutely agree. Naruto, MHA, One Piece (lol) also have way way worse representation.

I mean, Charlotte, Charmy, Noelle, Meleo are all top tier characters and there are lots more like Grey or Vanessa. I imagine there is more to Grey too, because we haven't seen/heard her real name yet.

And there are also villains that are cool like Fana back then.
I was just reading like damn you important you important you important etc. further I got more development and powerups they all got to keep up. Kimetsu is great too but Bc in that regard wins because not only is it great but there's a ton of them
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
One has to guess that Noelle would eventually get the Water Spirit, but even without it, I'm shocked at how powerful she is, and I like how Nozel actually cares about her, although I think Tabata could have made him less cruel in the beginning. It was a bit too much even if it was kind of an act.

But yeah, Asta, Yuno and Noelle have gotten really far in a really short amount of time and it doesn't really feel wrong (the improvement is bigger in Noelle considering her starting point, as Asta and Yuno were already quite strong as soon as they got their Grimoires). I guess I'm used to the main female character being left behind fast, so I'm very happy with this.

I also like how Tabata mixes stuff up, like pairing Asta and Mimosa, or even Noelle with Jack (or Zora before). It's honestly a great use of his cast. If you like a character, chances are you're going to see him/her quite a bit. Hell, even fucking Revchi!

The dream world was really damn inventive indeed. I love how there's little emphasis on melee fights (for obvious reasons) and it's all about either elemental attacks or this kind of weird magic. Like Paint Magic, which results in insane doublespreads. And yeah, really liked Sally in there and Luck as well, I've grown to like him quite a bit. Even Yuno is being really cool lately, love his half-crown form and the fact that there's more to him than meets the eye.

Oh, and I'm really enjoying the whole thing with Patry and Litch and how it's all about perverting the latter's image, essentially. I wonder how he'll react and also what will happen with William.

And the demon part I hadn't seen, no. I'm very excited about it honestly. There's been already hints and straight out references to demons what with the giant demon skull, Asta's swords and all of that, so I can see them being the endgame. I just hope it doesn't take too much away from the humans' actions against the elves (the same way I hope Langris was an asshole on his own right, although there's a redemption path already set for him).

But yep, I think I precisely stopped around the dream world part. I probably had exams or something and was five or so chapters behind and then I just kinda "forgot" to continue, even though I really, really like the manga. I have a very short attention span and I had really forgotten about a lot of things regarding, for instance, Patry and Litch (even though it's not complicated at all). But as soon as I'm to date (like, following weekly new chapters and all), I'm in until the end (unless the manga takes a nosedive in quality).
I think we've talked about the water spirit before in this thread and I'm in the camp that wants Noelle to fight whoever has it. Because Clover Kingdom is too stacked right now with 2/4 great elemental spirits lol. Also considering how strong Mereoleona is and how Acier Silva was the strongest captain before she died even above Julius (though Nozel may be biased...) I think Noelle really won't need it.

And yes I like the varied pairings too! Even before this war arc, we had switch ups with who among the Black Bulls is with Asta and then the tournament he's with people not in his squad.

Let's talk about the demon plot once you're caught up. Cause we've learned quite a bit about the situation.

Also...that Yuno half-crown...I got thoughts on that too once you're caught up lol.
 
Last edited:

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
I did a reread these last three days and I think it's safe to say Bc has the best female representation in today's battle shonen.
I absolutely agree. Naruto, MHA, One Piece (lol) also have way way worse representation.

I mean, Charlotte, Charmy, Noelle, Meleo are all top tier characters and there are lots more like Grey or Vanessa. I imagine there is more to Grey too, because we haven't seen/heard her real name yet.

And there are also villains that are cool like Fana back then.
I was just reading like damn you important you important you important etc. further I got more development and powerups they all got to keep up. Kimetsu is great too but Bc in that regard wins because not only is it great but there's a ton of them
I agree. It's really cause of just how many of them there are yeah and how well they're developed. Otherwise stuff like Kimetsu, Jujutsu Kaisen, now-officially-a-battle-shonen Neverland are also doing a great job.

Btw, Mendrox about there being more to Grey...someone may have posted a random crazy theory recently lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,647

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
Finally caught up, so time to ramble a little.

Loved the demon stuff. The mouth imagery was great (that bit with the heart in the open creating a mouth was :chefkiss:). Enjoyed the explanation for the five-leaf clovers and how Asta got his. And that double spread with Yuno's new sword and Asta... this manga has some of the best art I've seen in a shonen, no doubt.

I like the fact that Asta has his own demon in the Grimoire (that little confrontation between demons was great) and I'm satisfied with the way things ended even though I guess I could use some harsher treatment of certain characters, as tricked as they might have been the kingdom has been royally fucked and I assume there's been quite a few deaths, plus the destruction of many buildings and the now weaker image of the kingdom against the others.

Speaking of which, the little tease of the other kingdoms was very welcome, they look interesting. The Spade one with how they serve an ancient evil, the Heart one in terms of its mystery and how beautiful the setting is, and the Diamond one, well, we already knew it was essentially Kirigakure from Naruto, but it looks really cool. Barring Heart (and I can see a twist of it actually being a fucked up nation), it seems like Clover Kingdom is the only (mostly) nice place.

Regarding the First Wizard King, he was really enjoyable and it was a nice way to tie the whole giant demon skull down. And Nero! Secre new best girl. Really like her design and background, and her personality is fun, especially in how reminiscent it is of her bird form with how she treats Asta. Nice to see her being an official Black Bull so fast.

All in all, I'm shocked at how endgamey the arc felt. From the length of it (like damn), to the stakes, the final boss quality of Patry and the Demon, the fact that it all had been built since the very beginning and also how everyone was involved (the last few chapters of everybody escaping and reuniting felt like a farewell, almost).

Now onto the Julius stuff. I love the character and was sad to see him go and I like the concept of storing time magic. But yeah, this diminishes the impact that his fight against Patry had (although I guess it makes Patry's redemption easier to swallow. I'm guessing it's controversial among readers and for a good reason. Let's see what this resurrection entails, but yeah.

Yami and Charlotte best couple (even if shipping is the devil). Love how stupid Yami is, for a guy that seems to have most things figured out, and how it's fucking Asta (who's quite smart despite appareances) who kinda nails what's going on. I hope Charlotte goes in this mission as well. And what the hell at Noelle with the curse, we're bound to see more of her legendary mother, which is cool.

In any case, I love the direction the manga is taking, we've spent 200+ chapters in the same kingdom and mostly the same places (the most exotic one was the Underwater Temple), so I can't wait to see where we're going. Any guesses? I'm assuming the most common option would be the Spade Kingdom what with the whole demon stuff, right?
I think we've talked about the water spirit before in this thread and I'm in the camp that wants Noelle to fight whoever has it. Because Clover Kingdom is too stacked right now with 2/4 great elemental spirits lol. Also considering how strong Mereoleona is and how Acier Silva was the strongest captain before she died even above Julius (though Nozel may be biased...) I think Noelle really won't need it.

And yes I like the varied pairings too! Even before this war arc, we had switch ups with who among the Black Bulls is with Asta and then the tournament he's with people not in his squad.

Let's talk about the demon plot once you're caught up. Cause we've learned quite a bit about the situation.

Also...that Yuno half-crown...I got thoughts on that too once you're caught up lol.
Interested in reading those thoughts now :B

(And yeah, Clover Kingdom is too OP as of now in that front -if there were more spirits...-, so I see where you're coming from. Were Nozel a water magic user, I would choose him as the bearer of it, but yeah. I'm expecting a giant water snake/dragon, much like Noelle's attacks anyway).
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Surprisingly enjoyable ep today considering it's mostly recap. Maybe it's the letter framing.
That last bit with Asta grabbing the new sword is crazy though. Caught me off guard but it's a really cool way to hint at the 500 year flashback.

Omg nash and Asta as BLack bulls. Always hoped nash would follow his brother.

Nash is one of those characters I keep in mind for when there's a big timeskip, presumably at the end (with another being that peasant kid from the first arc). Though funnily enough when the chapter with the Bulls saying they were ready to betray the kingdom came out, I kept thinking about how it would go and how they'd have to grab the people at the Church to protect them and Nash would have interesting interactions with Magna given he's also a Fire Magic peasant who's doing well in the Magic Knights. I'd still like them to interact somehow eventually.

Finally caught up, so time to ramble a little.
giphy.gif


Loved the demon stuff. The mouth imagery was great (that bit with the heart in the open creating a mouth was :chefkiss:). Enjoyed the explanation for the five-leaf clovers and how Asta got his. And that double spread with Yuno's new sword and Asta... this manga has some of the best art I've seen in a shonen, no doubt.
Okay so the 5 leaf stuff is basically what I was talking about when I said the arc redeemed the first chapter for me. Because at first, it felt kinda desperate to me how it was basically like "Yuno's so special look he has a 4-leaf no one's got that!!!" and then it one ups itself soon after with Asta like "omg he's got a 5-leaf he's special-er!!!". But now we know what those mean, we've seen what it looks like when a 4-leaf becomes a 5-leaf, the suffering one has to go through for that and the lengths the word devil went to in order to do that not once but twice. Like, that simple grimoire transformation is tied to some much tragedy in their kingdom. Now that its long-term implications are clearer, I look back on that first chapter much more positively than I used to.
Also it suggests some interesting stuff going forward because there's only one 4-leaf user left and that's Yuno...and 2/3 of the other 4-leaf users suffered to the point of their grimoires transforming.

How do you feel about the demon plot in relation to the humans' actions now? Because the way I see it, it doesn't really absolve those old royals because the demon's obviously bad but he took advantage of the how terrible and corrupt those royals already were, with them already doing the magic-based discrimination and being racist towards the elves.

Regarding the First Wizard King, he was really enjoyable and it was a nice way to tie the whole giant demon skull down. And Nero! Secre new best girl. Really like her design and background, and her personality is fun, especially in how reminiscent it is of her bird form with how she treats Asta. Nice to see her being an official Black Bull so fast.
Love Nero. I like how she's basically like Patry but on the human side, being a witness to the events of the past from another perspective now in the future and working for her partner's goal.

Now onto the Julius stuff. I love the character and was sad to see him go and I like the concept of storing time magic. But yeah, this diminishes the impact that his fight against Patry had (although I guess it makes Patry's redemption easier to swallow. I'm guessing it's controversial among readers and for a good reason. Let's see what this resurrection entails, but yeah.
This is what I was most curious about, haha. Julius' return got people talking, to say the least. Personally, I was happy from the start cause I love Julius and felt there was enough to make it plausible he'd come back. Then I learned more and more of the long ass setup that went into his whole story and now I'm way into it. And I like most of the stuff that's been done with him since, from the worldbuilding and sending the bulls away to the reactions of the few people who knew he was dead. The only thing I don't like is how he's seemingly not punishing William much but I gotta see more of how that goes, it's not too clear what'll happen with William and the Golden Dawn right now.

In any case, I love the direction the manga is taking, we've spent 200+ chapters in the same kingdom and mostly the same places (the most exotic one was the Underwater Temple), so I can't wait to see where we're going. Any guesses? I'm assuming the most common option would be the Spade Kingdom what with the whole demon stuff, right?
Same. I'm looking forward to what comes next. As for where we're going first, well the mission is primarily to learn about devil stuff and yeah Spade Kingdom is the devil place so it seems logical but they just feel so endgame to me lol. And I want to go to Diamond first since there's been more setup for that. I'm curious about how the travels will be handled.

At any rate, I'm happy you're up to date and enjoying it!

Interested in reading those thoughts now :B
So yeah for the Yuno half-crown thing, there already kinda is an explanation we could accept for that, which is simply he's the reincarnation of Licht/Tetia's son who is half-royal so Yuno has a half-crown as a nod to that. If that's all there is to it, I'm fine with it but with Yuno and Asta's origins being a mystery, Yuno having a fancy necklace that turned out to be a magic stone, the likes of which a current royal also had (Fuegoleon), Yuno having noble/royal-level magic and now two people tied to the Kira house having a hair color similar to Yuno (Damnatio and Langris' fiancée), I think Yuno may be related to that house in some way (the obvious answer would be illegitimate son sent away like how William grew up in the Forsaken realm). It's far from something I'm convinced of because there's not much to go on and I don't know how Asta would tie into all that but for now it's something I'm keeping in mind for when it's time to learn about their origins and who left them at the church.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
Okay so the 5 leaf stuff is basically what I was talking about when I said the arc redeemed the first chapter for me. Because at first, it felt kinda desperate to me how it was basically like "Yuno's so special look he has a 4-leaf no one's got that!!!" and then it one ups itself soon after with Asta like "omg he's got a 5-leaf he's special-er!!!". But now we know what those mean, we've seen what it looks like when a 4-leaf becomes a 5-leaf, the suffering one has to go through for that and the lengths the word devil went to in order to do that not once but twice. Like, that simple grimoire transformation is tied to some much tragedy in their kingdom. Now that its long-term implications are clearer, I look back on that first chapter much more positively than I used to.
Also it suggests some interesting stuff going forward because there's only one 4-leaf user left and that's Yuno...and 2/3 of the other 4-leaf users suffered to the point of their grimoires transforming.
Yeah, when that came up I thought of you talking about the recontextualization of the first chapter. In a vacuum, it's true that it is quite generic and by the books, but, once things take their place, it's actually quite neat.

I honestly hadn't thought about Yuno going through the same despair, even if it's incredibly obvious. He's a character that escapes me somehow, and I can't really say which path he's going to take. For as much as I hate the hammering down of rivalries and "it's me who's gonna be Wizard King", his relationship with Asta is refreshing and so is his role in the story. So detached, which is only something that happens with rivals when they're going through dark places, and that's not the case with him at all.
How do you feel about the demon plot in relation to the humans' actions now? Because the way I see it, it doesn't really absolve those old royals because the demon's obviously bad but he took advantage of the how terrible and corrupt those royals already were, with them already doing the magic-based discrimination and being racist towards the elves.
I was quite glad because, as you say, it's just that they were happy to be pushed by the demon. As in, you have to be quite fucked up to begin with to do that, and there's no mind control here. You just were given a chance to fulfill your corrupt ideals. No absolution whatsoever.

And really, that corruption is still something that the kingdom thrives on, seeing as recently as the trial. So yeah, I like how no side here is totally evil/good (except for the demon, sure) and how it all comes down to individuals and you can't generalize.
Love Nero. I like how she's basically like Patry but on the human side, being a witness to the events of the past from another perspective now in the future and working for her partner's goal.
She should have some valuable info from the past that I expect the author to bring up every now and then, so that's cool. We admittedly know very little of the world's history.
This is what I was most curious about, haha. Julius' return got people talking, to say the least. Personally, I was happy from the start cause I love Julius and felt there was enough to make it plausible he'd come back. Then I learned more and more of the long ass setup that went into his whole story and now I'm way into it. And I like most of the stuff that's been done with him since, from the worldbuilding and sending the bulls away to the reactions of the few people who knew he was dead. The only thing I don't like is how he's seemingly not punishing William much but I gotta see more of how that goes, it's not too clear what'll happen with William and the Golden Dawn right now.
Lol I'm ultimately fine with it because, yeah, Julius is great and there's also the fact that there were grounds set for this to plausibly happen. It's not an asspull and the way to go about this was kinda cool (I really like how he's only got a page now of his weird-ass Grimoire). I'm just a bit sad because his death was great and it was really high stakes.

However, even if at first I was like "oh, no repercursions after all", he's been heavily depowered and his image could potentially take a hit seeing as he's just a kid now. So Clover Kingdom is still in the same situation really when it comes to them having lost their most powerful figure. We already see Damnatio making those statements.

Regarding William, I feel the same. Not out of hate, but I want to see him punished. Like, I get where he's coming from, but there's a difference between what Julius' side and what Patry wanted. I guess it's quite the link the one that he had with the latter, but still. Although we don't really see what's going to happen with William exactly, just the way he's personally treated by Julius. Who knows.

I think the Golden Dawn could be disbanded honestly and a new team emerge. They've had their captain pulling that stunt and also some messes before with Langris (what's going to happen with him?). Although I guess the likeliest option would be a new captain, which should be exciting on its own.
Same. I'm looking forward to what comes next. As for where we're going first, well the mission is primarily to learn about devil stuff and yeah Spade Kingdom is the devil place so it seems logical but they just feel so endgame to me lol. And I want to go to Diamond first since there's been more setup for that. I'm curious about how the travels will be handled.

At any rate, I'm happy you're up to date and enjoying it!
Yeah, Spade Kingdom's description sounds ominous as hell lol. Diamond could be interesting (and I want to see Fana and Mars again) due to their militaristic focus and the lack of resources there. It looked quite dry. Heart is intriguing as hell, wonder what kind of magic they'll have there.

And yeah man :B I'll be finally posting here every week, feels good!
So yeah for the Yuno half-crown thing, there already kinda is an explanation we could accept for that, which is simply he's the reincarnation of Licht/Tetia's son who is half-royal so Yuno has a half-crown as a nod to that. If that's all there is to it, I'm fine with it but with Yuno and Asta's origins being a mystery, Yuno having a fancy necklace that turned out to be a magic stone, the likes of which a current royal also had (Fuegoleon), Yuno having noble/royal-level magic and now two people tied to the Kira house having a hair color similar to Yuno (Damnatio and Langris' fiancée), I think Yuno may be related to that house in some way (the obvious answer would be illegitimate son sent away like how William grew up in the Forsaken realm). It's far from something I'm convinced of because there's not much to go on and I don't know how Asta would tie into all that but for now it's something I'm keeping in mind for when it's time to learn about their origins and who left them at the church.
I can't believe I didn't catch that (the half-crown significance, I mean) and, while I had the theory that Yuno was a noble as well, I honestly hadn't really thought of him being part of the Kira family (I guess I didn't give it much of a thought, too many things happening), even though he's obviously linked to Tetia and Litch's kid in that way. I mean, Tetia's line could also be traced back in the Silva and Vermillion lines, but he really doesn't fit there. Can't believe I didn't think of that, also despite the fact that I actually took notice of Damnatio's hair (and overall look) being so different from the bum that's king lol.

Regarding Asta, I'm fine with him being a regular ass person whose lack of power is just out of coincidence. I love the fact that he's special due to the fact that he's not special at all, as said in the Witch Forest arc. But I can see it being deeper than that, almost certainly.

I doubt he'd be a noble if Yuno's to be that, yeah. Maybe part of a squire family or whatever?
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
And really, that corruption is still something that the kingdom thrives on, seeing as recently as the trial. So yeah, I like how no side here is totally evil/good (except for the demon, sure) and how it all comes down to individuals and you can't generalize.
Yup the trial is a harsh reminder of that. With the arc focusing on the good guys within the Clover kingdom and even getting to see someone like Nozel change his mind and recognize peasants like Asta/Yuno, it was easy to forget how the kingdom actually worked so the way the trial went down just had me like "ahhh these motherfuckers" lol
Regarding William, I feel the same. Not out of hate, but I want to see him punished. Like, I get where he's coming from, but there's a difference between what Julius' side and what Patry wanted. I guess it's quite the link the one that he had with the latter, but still. Although we don't really see what's going to happen with William exactly, just the way he's personally treated by Julius. Who knows.

I think the Golden Dawn could be disbanded honestly and a new team emerge. They've had their captain pulling that stunt and also some messes before with Langris (what's going to happen with him?). Although I guess the likeliest option would be a new captain, which should be exciting on its own.
Yeah William you can see where he's coming from (for me the biggest thing is that he essentially lived through the Elf massacre in his dreams as a kid and through the elf perspective too so he could've been even more against the kingdom) but that's still a big betrayal he committed.

Honestly, now that we have all these known criminals out and the kingdom's defenses are weakened, what I want is just a Suicide Squad-style thing where they just throw in William, the Midnight Sun people, Licht + Third Eye, Gueldre and Revchi and whoever else fits. Have that be the excuse for them working towards redemption.

Golden Dawn being disbanded could be interesting, that way we'd get to see a new squad's creation. But yeah depending on how little the citizens actually know, they could get away with just a new captain.

Regarding Asta, I'm fine with him being a regular ass person whose lack of power is just out of coincidence. I love the fact that he's special due to the fact that he's not special at all, as said in the Witch Forest arc. But I can see it being deeper than that, almost certainly.

I doubt he'd be a noble if Yuno's to be that, yeah. Maybe part of a squire family or whatever?
Yeah Asta I'm fine with him just being normal too. I like what the Witch Queen said. I can see it being deeper like you say but I'm fine if it's not.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
Yup the trial is a harsh reminder of that. With the arc focusing on the good guys within the Clover kingdom and even getting to see someone like Nozel change his mind and recognize peasants like Asta/Yuno, it was easy to forget how the kingdom actually worked so the way the trial went down just had me like "ahhh these motherfuckers" lol

Yeah William you can see where he's coming from (for me the biggest thing is that he essentially lived through the Elf massacre in his dreams as a kid and through the elf perspective too so he could've been even more against the kingdom) but that's still a big betrayal he committed.

Honestly, now that we have all these known criminals out and the kingdom's defenses are weakened, what I want is just a Suicide Squad-style thing where they just throw in William, the Midnight Sun people, Licht + Third Eye, Gueldre and Revchi and whoever else fits. Have that be the excuse for them working towards redemption.

Golden Dawn being disbanded could be interesting, that way we'd get to see a new squad's creation. But yeah depending on how little the citizens actually know, they could get away with just a new captain.


Yeah Asta I'm fine with him just being normal too. I like what the Witch Queen said. I can see it being deeper like you say but I'm fine if it's not.
Nozel has really won me over tbh. I still feel like the "you're a disgrace" tone he had with Noelle was a bit too far (there are better ways to make her grow and protect her), but it's such a nice feeling how he respects Asta, Yuno and Noelle now and actually cares about their safety and trusts them. I found Nebra's change of heart interesting (while Solid's was, I guess, more straightforward).

Speaking of Magic Knights, we still don't know who the Black Bulls' vicecaptain is, right? We should still have at least one or so members we don't know about. Henry's appareance was really cool and it's a good way to expand on the main cast (we've got "secret members like him, new incorporations like Secre and then, potentially, people that are far away).

Do we have anything on how longer Tabata wants to keep this going?

Because as I said, the last arc felt incredibly final (hell, much more than many other mangas' actual endings) and yet it doesn't feel wrong that this continues, it's just interesting because the structure might change a little bit given just how elf-focused BC had been before. I could see this being the first half ot he manga or so.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Nozel has really won me over tbh. I still feel like the "you're a disgrace" tone he had with Noelle was a bit too far (there are better ways to make her grow and protect her), but it's such a nice feeling how he respects Asta, Yuno and Noelle now and actually cares about their safety and trusts them. I found Nebra's change of heart interesting (while Solid's was, I guess, more straightforward).

Speaking of Magic Knights, we still don't know who the Black Bulls' vicecaptain is, right? We should still have at least one or so members we don't know about. Henry's appareance was really cool and it's a good way to expand on the main cast (we've got "secret members like him, new incorporations like Secre and then, potentially, people that are far away).

Nope. We still don't know who the vice captain. So yeah, there is at least one member we don't know about. Potentially more but beyond the VC, I'm not really thinking about "mystery Black Bulls" much. Still, the door is open for more than one. Besides the VC who I'm actively looking forward to, I'm indifferent to the introduction of new people who were "Black Bulls all along" but I ended up liking Zora and Henry's situations so it just depends on how it's done.

Regarding unseen Black Bulls, what we've had to go on so far was what Yami says in Ch. 4 "We've got other members, but the rest are out on missions, on breaks or slacking off". Now "slacking off" is the clearest one here as that probably refers to Zora just vigilante-ing around the kingdom instead of actually being with the Bulls. For Henry, both "on break" and "slacking off" could apply. At the very least, it's safe to say that the VC (and whatever other potential BB that may be out there) isn't in the Clover Kingdom and is probably on a mission. Because the kingdom just got attacked and they were nowhere in sight and they didn't show up when the Black Bulls came to the trial, ready to all leave the kingdom.

Also important to note that when Yami took as many Black Bulls as he could with him to the Underwater Temple, the only one he left behind at the hideout was Gordon, which at first seemed like just a joke about Gordon being alone all the time but now that we know Henry, it's more likely that Yami just wanted someone at the base so that Henry wouldn't die. Cause Yami always made sure someone was home every arc. So that tells us that there probably isn't some other secret member who's hiding in the base and probably in the kingdom overall cause if so they'd just be in the base with the others. So they're out on a mission.

My guess is the Vice Captain is a spy somewhere. Cause the Diamond Kingdom has spies in Clover so everyone probably has spies everywhere lol (which is probably why Julius says the kingdom is in danger of being attacked in its weakened state). But espionage doesn't seem very Black Bulls/Yami-ish haha

aUAXFkV.jpg

VC is most likely the one on the right. The one on the left could also be new or it could just be Luck, it looks a bit too tall to be Luck but for now it's what I'm going with until we meet someone else who looks like that.

(God this ended up longer than I thought it'd be)

Do we have anything on how longer Tabata wants to keep this going?

Because as I said, the last arc felt incredibly final (hell, much more than many other mangas' actual endings) and yet it doesn't feel wrong that this continues, it's just interesting because the structure might change a little bit given just how elf-focused BC had been before. I could see this being the first half ot he manga or so.
As for this, well in a French interview from September 2018, this was said:

Question: Is Black Clover a story meant to last for years like One Piece and Naruto?
Answer: Yes, I would like that and I will do everything to make that happen. I'm preparing myself psychologically to not have a vacation for a long time!

Question: Have you already thought about the end of the story?
Answer: I've thought about the major points, but I don't yet know exactly how Black Clover will end. However, I know that the first arc is ending soon.

So...whatever you take that to mean lol. To me, "years like One Piece and Naruto" means around 500 chapters at least. Maybe we get more, maybe we get way more. The only one of those two examples that's even complete is Naruto at 700 chapters so who knows.

The last arc did have an endgame feel, to the point where I saw people in various places questioning whether the series would continue, but to Tabata, those first 214 chapters were just "the first arc" so it being just one big story is probably why it felt endgame-y.
(I think of it more as a "saga" with multiple arcs but ultimately, the term doesn't matter, just that this was the first big part of his story)

For now, it's hard to know for sure where this will go. For the first "arc", even with all the Clover/Elf/Midnight Sun focus, we had things like the first dungeon or the Witch Forest where Tabata is like "yo Diamond Kingdom, don't forget ok? Diamond Kingdom!" which was basically what I and others hung on to when the elf war started and we first got those "...endgame?" vibes, with also very small Spade/gods teases. Now that we're in this curse/exile/exploration part, we might have a similar focus on that while getting teases of what would be the next "saga", to basically frame our thinking so that we always have something to look forward to.

Honestly, it all depends on just how much of what is mentioned Tabata wants to explore. Cause depending on the series, sometimes stuff is mentioned just for the sake of it and sometimes it's mentioned to hint at the scope of the plot. It's hard to know for sure now because we're "just" 221 chapters in, whereas when you look at something like One Piece, by now we have a better handle on how that works and sometimes when some place is mentioned, you basically know we're going there (like how Elbaf seems very likely right now). When I first came across that interview two months ago, what I pictured was basically:

Arc/Saga 1: Clover
Arc/Saga 2: Diamond/Heart/Spade
Arc/Saga 3: God stuff

But like I said, it's just about what has been mentioned, whether we look more into that and how deep we do look into that. Like, are we actually gonna meet the gods? And hell that was just me randomly guessing when Julius had just returned. With all this new info we have, this could look very different. Could each kingdom get its own Clover-sized saga? Will they all tie together into some large war and that's its own saga? Are we gonna go to the world where devils come from?

For all we know, maybe we could end up going to Yami's homeplace, the Land of the Rising Sun, for whatever reason.

All this to say, who the fuck knows lmao. Unless this series gets cancelled, it could be written to go for anything from 5 to 10 years to maybe more.

(And goddamn this part ended up long too. But it's fun to speculate)
 
Last edited:

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
Nope. We still don't know who the vice captain. So yeah, there is at least one member we don't know about. Potentially more but beyond the VC, I'm not really thinking about "mystery Black Bulls" much. Still, the door is open for more than one. Besides the VC who I'm actively looking forward to, I'm indifferent to the introduction of new people who were "Black Bulls all along" but I ended up liking Zora and Henry's situations so it just depends on how it's done.

Regarding unseen Black Bulls, what we've had to go on so far was what Yami says in Ch. 4 "We've got other members, but the rest are out on missions, on breaks or slacking off". Now "slacking off" is the clearest one here as that probably refers to Zora just vigilante-ing around the kingdom instead of actually being with the Bulls. For Henry, both "on break" and "slacking off" could apply. At the very least, it's safe to say that the VC (and whatever other potential BB that may be out there) isn't in the Clover Kingdom and is probably on a mission. Because the kingdom just got attacked and they were nowhere in sight and they didn't show up when the Black Bulls came to the trial, ready to all leave the kingdom.

Also important to note that when Yami took as many Black Bulls as he could with him to the Underwater Temple, the only one he left behind at the hideout was Gordon, which at first seemed like just a joke about Gordon being alone all the time but now that we know Henry, it's more likely that Yami just wanted someone at the base so that Henry wouldn't die. Cause Yami always made sure someone was home every arc. So that tells us that there probably isn't some other secret member who's hiding in the base and probably in the kingdom overall cause if so they'd just be in the base with the others. So they're out on a mission.

My guess is the Vice Captain is a spy somewhere. Cause the Diamond Kingdom has spies in Clover so everyone probably has spies everywhere lol (which is probably why Julius says the kingdom is in danger of being attacked in its weakened state). But espionage doesn't seem very Black Bulls/Yami-ish haha

aUAXFkV.jpg

VC is most likely the one on the right. The one on the left could also be new or it could just be Luck, it looks a bit too tall to be Luck but for now it's what I'm going with until we meet someone else who looks like that.

(God this ended up longer than I thought it'd be)
Hey, we have to make up for lost weekly chapter discussions this past year, so these posts have to be long :P

You make points I hadn't even thought of (particularly the Underwater Temple and the Henry stuff). I honestly hadn't realized that there was an undisclosed woman in that panel there (I think the guy might be Luck, but yeah, he definitely looks taller than usual so who knows. Charmy is missing from there after all...). This manga has been generally great with female characters, so I'm happy she'd be a woman and yeah, she must be doing some important stuff for her not to be there when the whole invasion happened. A mission in a foreign nation I think might be a given and, while Yami is indeed not too spy-like lol, I can see the VC being quite different and doing something like that, especially if sent by Julius himself.

And I mean, we're going abroad, so chances are we'll finally meet her! I wonder just what kind of magic she'd have.
As for this, well in a French interview from September 2018, this was said:

So...whatever you take that to mean lol. To me, "years like One Piece and Naruto" means around 500 chapters at least. Maybe we get more, maybe we get way more. The only one of those two examples that's even complete is Naruto at 700 chapters so who knows.

The last arc did have an endgame feel, to the point where I saw people in various places questioning whether the series would continue, but to Tabata, those first 214 chapters were just "the first arc" so it being just one big story is probably why it felt endgame-y.
(I think of it more as a "saga" with multiple arcs but ultimately, the term doesn't matter, just that this was the first big part of his story)

For now, it's hard to know for sure where this will go. For the first "arc", even with all the Clover/Elf/Midnight Sun focus, we had things like the first dungeon or the Witch Forest where Tabata is like "yo Diamond Kingdom, don't forget ok? Diamond Kingdom!" which was basically what I and others hung on to when the elf war started and we first got those "...endgame?" vibes, with also very small Spade/gods teases. Now that we're in this curse/exile/exploration part, we might have a similar focus on that while getting teases of what would be the next "saga", to basically frame our thinking so that we always have something to look forward to.

Honestly, it all depends on just how much of what is mentioned Tabata wants to explore. Cause depending on the series, sometimes stuff is mentioned just for the sake of it and sometimes it's mentioned to hint at the scope of the plot. It's hard to know for sure now because we're "just" 221 chapters in, whereas when you look at something like One Piece, by now we have a better handle on how that works and sometimes when some place is mentioned, you basically know we're going there (like how Elbaf seems very likely right now). When I first came across that interview two months ago, what I pictured was basically:

Arc/Saga 1: Clover
Arc/Saga 2: Diamond/Heart/Spade
Arc/Saga 3: God stuff

But like I said, it's just about what has been mentioned, whether we look more into that and how deep we do look into that. Like, are we actually gonna meet the gods? And hell that was just me randomly guessing when Julius had just returned. With all this new info we have, this could look very different. Could each kingdom get its own Clover-sized saga? Will they all tie together into some large war and that's its own saga? Are we gonna go to the world where devils come from?

For all we know, maybe we could end up going to Yami's homeplace, the Land of the Rising Sun, for whatever reason.

All this to say, who the fuck knows lmao. Unless this series gets cancelled, it could be written to go for anything from 5 to 10 years to maybe more.

(And goddamn this part ended up long too. But it's fun to speculate)
Goddamn, an arc of 200+ chapters lol. But it makes sense (and yeah, it's semantics, for this is essentially a saga much like East Blue is one in OP, composed of several arcs). It was really focused and, while a lot will carry forward, the elf conflict per se is done with.

This second one seems to be all about curses and demons, but that stuff seems way to important for it to be done away quickly. I'm assuming this will be more about, indeed, going to different places with that overall theme impregnating smaller arcs. I don't see any of these countries as having as much content as the Clover Kingdom had individually, but I think we could get more chapters in conjunction about all of them. Although the description of the Spade Kingdom seems way too heavy for it not to be its own thing. There's also Yami's homeland, yeah. I hope we get to see it. It should be a nice adventure, although it seems like a big diversion right now.

Not gonna lie, an all-out war between the four kingdoms would be dope, and it's been kinda hinted at already. Everybody wants a piece of that Clover Kingdom pie, and now it's the best time to do it. Wouldn't it be cool if the Black Bulls return to Clover Kingdom way later on and encounter a war-ravaged (or war-ready at least) country? So far we've gotten the Diamond Kingdom as the most reckless one (for obvious reasons). You'd think that Spade Kingdom isn't very nice either (unless there's a twist and they just so happen to worship the devil but are still "good" lol), and Heart Kingdom seems kind of independent in that sense, but they're obviously hiding something in how mysterious they are.

The gods thing is interesting, there's definitely been mentions so far (like in the Underwater Temple -I wouldn't be shocked if Noelle had something to do given her "goddess" references in that arc, but I'm probably reading too much there; she has something to do with curses though...). And I mean, there's demons and a demon dimension essentially. And, of course, the church (which is Catholic Christianity all but in name), so yeah.

We're kind of in uncharted waters now and that's really exciting. The manga feels as fresh as ever despite being 200+ chapters in.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
This second one seems to be all about curses and demons, but that stuff seems way to important for it to be done away quickly. I'm assuming this will be more about, indeed, going to different places with that overall theme impregnating smaller arcs. I don't see any of these countries as having as much content as the Clover Kingdom had individually, but I think we could get more chapters in conjunction about all of them. Although the description of the Spade Kingdom seems way too heavy for it not to be its own thing. There's also Yami's homeland, yeah. I hope we get to see it. It should be a nice adventure, although it seems like a big diversion right now.
I also don't expect them to all have Clover-level content cause that is MC's home though I hope they're not rushed either. Closest would probably be Spade, given how important demons are, how it's the largest in size and they're actively trying to gain supremacy on the whole continent according to Julius. For now, I'm with you that all of them together will take longer than what Clover alone had.

Not gonna lie, an all-out war between the four kingdoms would be dope, and it's been kinda hinted at already. Everybody wants a piece of that Clover Kingdom pie, and now it's the best time to do it. Wouldn't it be cool if the Black Bulls return to Clover Kingdom way later on and encounter a war-ravaged (or war-ready at least) country? So far we've gotten the Diamond Kingdom as the most reckless one (for obvious reasons). You'd think that Spade Kingdom isn't very nice either (unless there's a twist and they just so happen to worship the devil but are still "good" lol), and Heart Kingdom seems kind of independent in that sense, but they're obviously hiding something in how mysterious they are.
Yeah if handled well a war could be very hype. The Heart Kingdom I honestly don't know what to think about right now because of how little is known lol. Could be hiding something shady too or maybe they really just don't want to get involved but get dragged into everything somehow.
Also I think others wanting to move in on the Clover kingdom could be a good excuse to periodically look into what the other Magic Knights are dealing with while the Bulls are away. But not showing them or the kingdom for a while could work well to depending on the reasons and what it builds up to.

Btw, wanna know a random thing I can't help but think about because of those kingdoms? This is absolutely baseless speculation lol but I see these kingdoms named after playing cards symbols and I'm just like...is there a Joker? Cause it seems like there should be something named Joker somewhere lol.
Is Joker a person, unique and different from everyone else? (...Asta?)
Is Joker an organization, neutral from every other kingdom?
Is Joker the name of that neutral zone that separates the four kingdoms? Or the name of something/someone in that zone?

Also, Tabata's previous series is called "Hungry Joker" so clearly he likes the concept lol.

The gods thing is interesting, there's definitely been mentions so far (like in the Underwater Temple -I wouldn't be shocked if Noelle had something to do given her "goddess" references in that arc, but I'm probably reading too much there; she has something to do with curses though...). And I mean, there's demons and a demon dimension essentially. And, of course, the church (which is Catholic Christianity all but in name), so yeah.

We're kind of in uncharted waters now and that's really exciting. The manga feels as fresh as ever despite being 200+ chapters in.
The Noelle thing I don't know if you're reading too much into it. We don't have much to go on but the water temple is interesting in that they have their own religion, made a big deal about Noelle and for whatever reason, are not allowed to interact much with Clover, beyond that one beach city. Maybe there's more to learn about them.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
Regarding the latest chapter, I'm loving how we're getting named demons. It was nice seeing the dream world once more (and the justification to bring it up is pretty cool, I love some word-activated curses). I hope Dorothy stays awaken for good, she's very fun and hyper.

Man, Noelle really lucked out in the "main female character in a shonen" department: she gets tons of development, an actual fun personality and seems to be on her way to glory strength-wise. That's rare, especially the last part.
I also don't expect them to all have Clover-level content cause that is MC's home though I hope they're not rushed either. Closest would probably be Spade, given how important demons are, how it's the largest in size and they're actively trying to gain supremacy on the whole continent according to Julius. For now, I'm with you that all of them together will take longer than what Clover alone had.


Yeah if handled well a war could be very hype. The Heart Kingdom I honestly don't know what to think about right now because of how little is known lol. Could be hiding something shady too or maybe they really just don't want to get involved but get dragged into everything somehow.
Also I think others wanting to move in on the Clover kingdom could be a good excuse to periodically look into what the other Magic Knights are dealing with while the Bulls are away. But not showing them or the kingdom for a while could work well to depending on the reasons and what it builds up to.
I'm most curious to see the systems of government and institutions of the other countries, specifically with regards to how they deal with magic. I can only imagine the amount of forbidden magic users in Spade Kingdom.
Btw, wanna know a random thing I can't help but think about because of those kingdoms? This is absolutely baseless speculation lol but I see these kingdoms named after playing cards symbols and I'm just like...is there a Joker? Cause it seems like there should be something named Joker somewhere lol.
Is Joker a person, unique and different from everyone else? (...Asta?)
Is Joker an organization, neutral from every other kingdom?
Is Joker the name of that neutral zone that separates the four kingdoms? Or the name of something/someone in that zone?

Also, Tabata's previous series is called "Hungry Joker" so clearly he likes the concept lol.
Not gonna like, when you said Joker in Black Clover my mind first went to Zora lol. But, if there's to be one such figure, Asta fits it really well. He's basically cheating and not really playing by the rules.

In any case, there's for sure gotta be an explanation for the naming in these countries and there might as well be more card allusions indeed. The possibilities...
The Noelle thing I don't know if you're reading too much into it. We don't have much to go on but the water temple is interesting in that they have their own religion, made a big deal about Noelle and for whatever reason, are not allowed to interact much with Clover, beyond that one beach city. Maybe there's more to learn about them.
Oh, yeah, they can't really do that. The Underwater Temple is no doubt my favourite location so far and the one that I'm most curious about. It could also indeed be quite important in laying down whatever religion we might have in BC. It's kinda weird how little we've gotten considering how prevalent (aesthetically, mostly) the Church has been so far (in the form of orphanages, mostly).

On that, I do wonder what's next for Kiato and Kahono (I assume she might have gotten famous by the time the Black Bulls return lol).
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
This chapter felt short but is really interesting. And that cover page is lovely.
I'm really liking Dorothy so I'm glad she's awake now, funny how she might be awake for good now that the story needs her. Guess she's slept enough.

Dorothy messing with Noelle is funny. With that Asta thing and the recent chapters, I can't tell if Tabata is treating or trolling the shippers haha.

The idea of Acier's curse not being something you can talk about is very interesting. I wonder if it's just for her curse or if we'll see others like that, cause Dorothy does say it's the "type" of curse she was under.

The bit about the types of way mages interact with devils or their world is also cool cause it matches examples we've seen. Forbidden magic is Secre and the elves, the type where you pay a price is probably Licht and the limited power usage would be Asta. I like Dorothy saying that demon stuff is all over the place cause it means we don't have to go to Spade immediately and can possibly get Diamond stuff soon.

Looking forward to learning more about Acier next.

Regarding the latest chapter, I'm loving how we're getting named demons. It was nice seeing the dream world once more (and the justification to bring it up is pretty cool, I love some word-activated curses). I hope Dorothy stays awaken for good, she's very fun and hyper.

Man, Noelle really lucked out in the "main female character in a shonen" department: she gets tons of development, an actual fun personality and seems to be on her way to glory strength-wise. That's rare, especially the last part.
Man as a Noelle fan, I feel extra good about how the first named demon in this manga is the one who's important to her story lol.
Gotta be honest, when the elf arc ended, I thought about and got afraid that maybe that was the end for Noelle being relevant and how I'd feel if that ended up true but I'm glad Tabata "nah fuck that".
 

ArgyleReptile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,912
I like Dorothy saying that demon stuff is all over the place cause it means we don't have to go to Spade immediately and can possibly get Diamond stuff soon.

It's pretty frighting and a bit sad too because that may mean that the Clover Kingdom has been so insolated (perhaps due to the influence of nobles) that they've ignored a very real threat and passed them off as legends.

But yeah, chapter was short but good. Hope we get more information next chapter.

Also, yes, Dorothy is great. Still want to know how she and Nozel are related and why they are in the know about all of this.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
It's pretty frighting and a bit sad too because that may mean that the Clover Kingdom has been so insolated (perhaps due to the influence of nobles) that they've ignored a very real threat and passed them off as legends.
Had not even considered that angle. Clover Kingdom so dumb lol.

Also, yes, Dorothy is great. Still want to know how she and Nozel are related and why they are in the know about all of this.
Dorothy is 27-28, even younger than Nozel, so yeah it is curious that she knows all this given she wasn't a peer of Acier's. Maybe she looked up to Acier like Mereoleona or maybe it's due to her witch background since the Queen just knew everything (why did she leave the Witch Forest anyway? I'm pretty curious). For now I'm just guessing her power was convenient so Acier got her to help share the info with Nozel but maybe it was Dorothy that approached them.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,293
Dorothy was one of the ten best characters when all she did was sleep and appear once every 70 chapters and she's even better awake.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819

Tabata's comment for the week is "Tamura Sensei zipped by on his bike to deliver gifts to celebrate the birth of our baby. He was like the wind!".
I love how most of Tabata's recent comments have been about his baby but this one is also neat because "Tamura" refers to Ryuhei Tamura, author of Beelzebub, who, fun fact, is friends with Tabata because they both worked as assistants for Toshiaki Iwashiro on Psyren. Both Iwashiro and Tamura drew special manga for Black Clover vol. 1 and 2 to congratulate him (with Tamura's manga hinting at Tabata being like Asta in real life lol) so I found this comment really cool.

Btw, Tabata is also friends Yuto Tsukuda, writer of Shokugeki no Soma (who also drew a special thing in a BC volume) and I'm pretty sure he's friends with MHA's Kohei Horikoshi too. He's well connected haha.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
EFdNGCdUYAQec-F


Cover for Volume 22 (Saw it here). I like it! It joins Vol.18 in being the rare volume cover that doesn't use a grimoire as a background and once again, it does so to nice effect, showing the two friends reunited with the dawn of the end of this 500-year story in the background ("Dawn" is the volume's name btw).

23 will probably have Damnatio on it and contain the whole trial.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
I hope that Noelle's fight against Kivn can get the Yoshihara treatment too. The introductions of Asta's black form and Yuno's Spirit Dive both got it so it seems only fair that Noelle's new form get it too given that she's the third most important. I understand that there's a lot of action in this arc and some parts have to be sacrificed, like Mereoleona's fight with the elves, but Valkyrie Armor is such an important moment for one of the most important characters and with just the perfect build-up and emotion to it. It feels like a powerful moment not just for Black Clover but for Jump heroines in general so I hope it can be done justice like Asta, Yuno and Yami's big moments.
I would like to add to this that I hope they play Opening 5 - Gamushara when Noelle gets her moment in the anime, like they did with Haruka Mirai. Cause I kinda associate this with Noelle due to the singer saying the title as Noelle launches her attack in the OP but really it's cause "gamushara" means "reckless" and in discovering Valkyrie Armor, Noelle ends up thinking of magic as "wild and free" so it would fit the moment well.

So glad the animes continuing. Hope they do the entire elf arc.
At this point the arc probably is gonna be fully adapted. I wonder if it'll go past that though, cause there may not be enough material.

Any thoughts on the chapter?