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Black Panther |OT| Wakanda Forever (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Quick
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This is probably the first marvel movie i genuinely enjoyed throughout. Only weakness was the villain — too much time spent on klau who i just thought was annoying, and killmonger was great but felt under-utilized. Shuri was great, too.
Klaue was barely in the movie, and i think Serkis did a fantastic job.
You see there is a better way to do this. When he is losing to regular people, it makes you question how he would fare against super powered people on Cap's level.
He constantly has to call on allies to help him beat regular humans. Wouldn't have a problem if they had some semblance of super powers.
The movie makes sense why he would lose to Kilmonger. Kilmonger specifically trained his entire life for that day and T'Challa was fully depowered so they were on even ground. As regular humans since Kilmonger has been training that way his whole life of course he would beat him since he has far more experience fighting in human form than T'Challa. Then when both are super powered, T'Challa was far more experienced in his super powered state than Kilmonger, so him winning that way makes sense. Also he was more aware than Kilmonger about the Weaknesses in the suits have.
The comics explanation is he was holding his punches back. What a lame ass trope
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I made it less than 4 minutes into that before I had to peace out.
All I can say is that when I don't understand something, or even if I think I do understand something, I allow for the possibility that I am talking shit and need to listen to others. Especially when it comes to stuff like black cultural identity, something I can only see as an outsider. Red Letter Media has long since exposed that their area of expertise in criticism is highly, highly limited for basically this reason.
This makes sense in a mechanical sense, as in that it appeals to a sense of physics, and that's not nothing...but it's also not the higher echelon of what makes good storytelling.
Here is my alternate take:
Fight 1: When T'Challa fought M'Baku, he was losing until his mother shouted at him "Remember who you are!", at which point he does and he gets a second wind and he beats back M'Baku. The scene demonstrates that T'Challa draws his strength from his self identity, not just of being a strong dude, but a noble one. A King. Hence, he not only beats M'Baku, he graciously reminds M'Baku of his duties to his people, giving him the impetus to yield.
Fight 2: Now he's fighting against Killmonger and who is T'Challa now? He just discovered the crimes of his father, and he is completely unsure how to handle the return of his cousin. During the conversation before this, he kept falling back on "Wakandan Traditions" excuses, which he no longer feels certain about knowing how they have harmed the world around them. By damaging T'Challa's image of his father, who T'Challa has said he wants to be like, that means now T'Challa's own identity is uncertain. T'Challa cannot be like his father, but he doesn't know what else to do. Killmonger on the other hand is certain of exactly what he wants. So he wins.
Fight 3: T'Challa has visited his father once again and resolved to not be like him and his ancestors anymore. He has not only revived, but he already implements changes with M'Baku, saying he will not be like his forefathers. He knows exactly waht kind of king he wants to be now. In contrast, Killmonger I think is somewhat shaken by his vision of the Ancestral plane. His father expressed not pride, but regret and disappointment. It's subtle, but Killmonger acts more emotional than he did leading up to the moment he ascended.
Look, I don't deny that the mechanics of a universe have to make sense, and "Killmonger not being used to Panther powers" is a good way to explain that away. But what stories are ultimately is coded meanings, so I would argue tracking why they win or loss by who they think of themselves as people is a more poignant metric. Plus this follows the 3 act structure rather smoothly, going from Establishing the Rules (Self idenity determines strength) to Darkest Hour (T'Challa losing his identity) to Growth and Winning the Day (T'Challa changes his self identity)
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Two pages of arguing whether or not "What Are Those" worked as a joke.
I love the effect this movie has on people. :)
Because the delivery doesn't require you to know. It works amazing either way
I love the effect this movie has on people. :)
Because the delivery doesn't require you to know. It works amazing either way
Someone replied to my post where I stated that Shuri had the best lines with "she also has the worst line." I didn't even think "what are those" was bad at all.
Yeah, I liked it. Shuri had no bad lines. And I loved when she raised her hand at the ritual fight just to ask if they could hurry up and finish. I almost thought she did want to fight just to show off that she could take down her big bro, but nah, she was just messing around.
Breh, if that happened, Shuri fans would become even more hardcore lol
She'd say she won because she was wearing sneakers and open toe sandals are bad in a fight.
The next movie should show a prototyped Shuri panther suit, just off screen in her lab.
People would lose their collective minds.
Honestly, I cannot remember the last time I was this excited after watching a movie. I am still coming down from the high of that movie.
Wakanda tech vs Stark tech, thoughts? Shuri can cure Rhodey, Stark just helps him relearn how to walk, so Wakanda wins. But near infinite clean energy from Stark reactor is super impressive too.
Obviously Hammer tech is lowest tier.
Oh don't get me wrong, there was the in depth reason as well but I didn't feel like typing it all out so I just used a surface level interpretation.
This movie just has so many layers to it. Love it.
Stark's bleeding edge armour is obviously inspired by Wakandan tech.
His suit materializes from his chest piece like T'Challa's does from his necklace. The first indication of Wakanda sharing its tech with the outside world.
In this case keeping the most advanced stuff within the Avengers themselves.
The sequel to BP will most likely deal with Citizen unrest to this and the invasion of Wakanda by outside forces. Now that T'Challa has opened its borders and made the world aware they exist.
Healing Ross was probably a setup for Rhodey getting fixed in Infinity War when he goes to Wakanda.
Iron Man retired!
Iron Man retired!
Marvel got 5 years to make an Ironheart/Shuri movie happen or we riot.
Gotta see that black girl magic on the big screen.
Gotta see that black girl magic on the big screen.
She doesn't.
The idea is that she teams up with Riri Williams and we get a movie about two clever black girls doing their thing.
I mean, besides not getting the cultural importance of the movie and why the tribal and spiritual stuff was necessary, what didn't they get?
Just wanted to say that I really liked this post and the thought that went into it.
I'm curious on how intelligent T'Challa is in the MCU because they really didn't capitalize it in the film.
he is top 5.
and maybe in the next movie.
it would have been effective if they had shown him working on inventions with his sister. or even just asking how the refit of "my ship designs" were going. One liners that are an easy way to establish his sister isn't the only super-genius in the tech room.
That surprised me in this movie. I don't know a lot about the character, but I always see him mentioned as one of Marvel's great minds. That didn't really show in this movie, or in Civil War. I saw him on par with someone like Captain America where one of his big strengths is leadership.
I get the feeling that they're trying to portray T'Challa as a realistic person who has to work up to the ultimate mastermind state where he is in the comics. It wouldn't really be believable to have a character who's that tactically intelligent in his very first movie.
It helps that, especially in Civil War, the dude was absolutely emotionally compromised and blinded by rage. This film is a good way of setting a baseline for him to grow off of in future films.
It helps that, especially in Civil War, the dude was absolutely emotionally compromised and blinded by rage. This film is a good way of setting a baseline for him to grow off of in future films.
There wasn't a lot of time to delve into T'Challa in general because of how fast things happened so soon after Civil War. To be honest though, he felt more like comic T'Challa in Civil War than here: one step ahead of everyone else and taking zero shit. Even if he was enraged until the end.
Of course one can see him being shaken by the reality of his father's death setting in and the fact that all hell breaks loose the day after his ascension. But I do hope the vibe he had going in Civil War returns quickly.
Of course one can see him being shaken by the reality of his father's death setting in and the fact that all hell breaks loose the day after his ascension. But I do hope the vibe he had going in Civil War returns quickly.
Just saw the movie for a 3rd and most likely final time. Everytime I leave I like M'Baku and the Jabari a lot more. "Witness the might of the Jabari.... first hand", I legit smiled and geeked at that line. And when they first appear out the cave, they just looked menacing but really cool.
Really a great movie. The finale battle was really the low point. I was fine with the war going on between the Dora Milaje and the border tribe but Killmonger and T'Challa just didn't look great. The action could've been more grounded.
Really a great movie. The finale battle was really the low point. I was fine with the war going on between the Dora Milaje and the border tribe but Killmonger and T'Challa just didn't look great. The action could've been more grounded.
Okoye said Wakanda survived by only fighting when absolutely necessary. Is it not absolutely necessary to fight when an alien threat with gigantic ass flying beasts are destroying a city or when an AI robot with an AI robot army made of vibranium (of all things) are lifting an entire country?
I hope they explain this in the storyline somehow.
I hope they explain this in the storyline somehow.
Neither of those things were a threat to Wakanda. Wakanda didn't care what happened outside its borders. If the Chitauri or Ultron attempted to invade Wakanda, they'd be dealt with accordingly.
Granted, they likely would have stepped in to stop Ultron from destroying all life on earth with his meteor city, but that whole event happened within the events of like less than 24 hours.
Why would they care about shenanigans going down half the world away? Once the Chitauri or Ultron decided to dip their toes in Wakandan territory, then they'd step up. Until then, their general policy on how to respond to global crisis is basically this:
Or Coogler just has no interest in writing a character that's a master martial artist, strategist, scientist and inventor.
Saw it tonight. Basically enjoyed it. Sounds and costuming were dope, first MCU villain in ages who was interesting, killer cast.
But goddamn. Some of the CGI here was just atrocious. Uncanny fight scenes, uncanny crowds. But the worst was the BP v Killmonger (lol that name) climax. These two dudes having the big ole heart-to-heart in the *greenest screen* I ever saw. Lord. Build a couple sets and hire like three stunt fight performers.
But goddamn. Some of the CGI here was just atrocious. Uncanny fight scenes, uncanny crowds. But the worst was the BP v Killmonger (lol that name) climax. These two dudes having the big ole heart-to-heart in the *greenest screen* I ever saw. Lord. Build a couple sets and hire like three stunt fight performers.
I thought he had line about him designing a previous panther suit ?
Yeah I just wish the tech was animated better though. The flying craft were fine. But the panther suits enveloping characters never looked good. I hate the scene where T'Chall leaps backwards onto the car in S Korea, he feels weightless. I'd rather have the mechanical Iron Man style slotting into place animation.
Anyway, just another thing to improve on for the sequel, along with action scenes. I'm sure they'll take these mild criticisms to heart and make a sequel even better than the first movie. (good luck creating a better villain though!)
This is exactly my feels about the movie too. Should have had more material on Killmonger, and his development.
Is that line from when she saw him wearing slippers? Cuz that acene was really nice and funny
That was a meme? In Germany we laughed our asses off because we Germans like to wear socks and sandals and her reaction was the same as ours here when someone does this...he didn't wear any socks, but the sandals themselves were funny. Seems like it works in different ways.
Finally saw the movie.
Liked it, but felt the villain was a bit.... undercooked, coming off more like a random foreign usurper of the Crown, rather than 'The Grand Cousin of the King'. His death as a result, lost a lot of weight.
A couple more scenes dealing with him could've done wonders.
That said, is M'Baku supposed to be an anti-hero in this version of the story?
Liked it, but felt the villain was a bit.... undercooked, coming off more like a random foreign usurper of the Crown, rather than 'The Grand Cousin of the King'. His death as a result, lost a lot of weight.
A couple more scenes dealing with him could've done wonders.
That said, is M'Baku supposed to be an anti-hero in this version of the story?