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Black Panther |OT| Wakanda Forever (Unmarked Spoilers)

Oct 25, 2017
8,299
Miami, FL
I made a post that was way too good for a locked thread about imhotepery. So here it goes:

In the history of the MCU, Wakanda didn't fuck up Africa's continent. Blame that on the colonizers. They did their best to protect their people from the colonizers, and succeeded. Of course that Wakanda being isolationist is problematic and that's addressed and resolved throughout the film, but the Oakland outreach has several layers that some might be missing:

  1. Wakanda is the 1st world country helping out the fucked up subdeveloped country, in this case, the United States;
  2. It's literal at same time that is symbolic: it brings the utopia of an Africa that was never colonized and an America that was build with the blood and tears of those that were actually colonized. It's the bridge between African and American in African-American, it's the reconnection. It's T'Challa owning up to the mistakes of his utopia city's past by symbolizing hope not just for Africa, but African-American people as well;
  3. It's personal to the film's director, Ryan Coogler: "My goal is to start a (film)business in this area, something that can employ people,” he said. “It will be something the people can point to and kids can see it, saying ‘I can do that,’ instead of doing things that are glaring to the environment.” Source: https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2007/12/17/filmmaker-avoids-tragic-life-plotline/ (This inteview is 11 years old, btw)
This is film is about visibility. This is about restablishing connection with your roots. So of course that T'Challa would be connected with USA. This is an USA film made by an African-American director that grew up in Oakland. In so many ways, Coogler is both T'Challa and the kid at the end of the film. And if you can't understand why this matters, then well, I'm glad that others do and that Black Panther exists for them. Black Panther is one of the best superhero films of all time, if not the best, and even if it was a long time coming, this film was made when we needed it the most.
well stated.
 

BronsonLee

Don't worry I'm on the case
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
10,433
you know I can see edits right

inside baseball; even for things like locking threads it's not a solo run, I check with other mods on almost everything I do

So, again, if you wanna chat about it, you can PM me or another staff member about it. Pretty simple.
 

ashep

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,703
you know I can see edits right

inside baseball; even for things like locking threads it's not a solo run, I check with other mods on almost everything I do

So, again, if you wanna chat about it, you can PM me or another staff member about it. Pretty simple.
Yeah that’s why I edited. Thought better of continuing to derail.
 
Oct 28, 2017
572
You can thank Ta-Nahisi Coates for making T’Challa an incompetent fool and the Wakandans the stars.

People who praise his run are not BP fans.

This movie’s T’Challa was heavily influenced by TNC’s version.

But the movies don’t bother me as much because if he was the T’Challa of old comics, he would have destroyed the MCU Kilmonger, would have taken the throne right from the beginning and lead Wakanda with vigor and straight up killed Baron Zemo instead of allowing him to live. Or he would have beaten the shit out of him.

He would have figured out Zemo’s plan and realize he’s chasing the wrong person far before the airport fight.

He would have a contingency plan in place for an invasion from Thanos. We’ll see if he does in IW.
Making a compelling movie is harder than writing a comic book that makes tchalla an omniscient being.

Tchalla has to have flaws and has to make mistakes, and learn and grow.

This is called character development
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,966
I finally saw the movie this week. I see and like virtually every Marvel movie, but I actually didn't enjoy this as much as I expected. Maybe 6/10 for me?

Good:
  • Tons of black representation and (I assume) authentic accents and dialects.
  • Most of the acting was solid, and I loved some of the characters like the general, the sister, and the first villain.
  • Bilbo was surprisingly good as the American government guy.
  • Gollum was an excellent villain.
  • Some of the fighting was cool and the impacts felt really powerful.

Bad:
  • Not even joking, the camera almost RUINED the movie for me. I'm really sensitive about motion sickness, and for probably the first 50% of the movie, I was going insane from nearly constant camera movement. The very early scene where the camera continuously rotates in the same direction for like 30 seconds bothered me, but I figured the camera would settle down once the plot got going. I was wrong. Even for something like "a character is looking at a computer screen" or "two characters are talking", the camera would be slowly spinning, zooming, or otherwise doing something. I'm super glad I didn't see it in 3D. For some reason after maybe halfway through, I wasn't bothered. I assume I either got used to it, or it didn't happen as much. My fiance also mentioned the camera thing being annoying but she wasn't as affected by it.
  • I have to apologize in advance because this sounds like some sort of racist dogwhistle: A lot of scenes were way too dark in terms of lighting. Of course I'm not talking skin color, but the actual SCENE kept being something like
    "night in the city" or "a dark club" or "twilight outside" or "daybreak" or "inside a dark mountain" or "a dark set of train tracks". I feel it made it hard for me to see detail or follow action much of the time.
  • I wish Andy Serkis hadn't been killed off halfway through. I loved his character and the Evil Black Panther replacement really didn't match up for me. Maybe it was the accent contrast (though obviously the person is American), but I couldn't get it out of my head that the Evil Black Panther basically felt like a random dude reading lines instead of an actual character in the movie. I'm not sure if his acting was good or not, but at present I feel like it was really mediocre.
  • The final battle felt sort of half-finished to me. Technology is super advanced but they apparently don't have AI to control ships, I'm fine with that. But if they have human pilots...were any of them ever shown? Most importantly, what about the final ship that was shooting into the lab? Bilbo's about to die, he finishes his job at the last second, and then the credits scene reveals he's alive. That's fine and dandy, but what happened to the ship that was shooting at him? Who was in it? Why was it apparently okay that the fighter lady's husband who got a bunch of people murdered just took a knee and now it's all good? I guess maybe he gets punished offscreen?
 
Got a chance to see this during opening weekend (late Sunday night showing FTW) but haven't been around much lately to post -- that said... this movie is a blessing and a gift.

The women stole the show, full stop -- and for most of the movie I legit forgot it was a Marvel joint, which was more than welcome in my eyes.

Fantastic performances all around and well worth the wait; nothing much else to say that hasn't already been talked about in greater detail earlier in the thread, but I for one hope this flick continues to slay and only add to its run toward box office dominance for weeks to come.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,301
The general is by far my favorite MCU character thus far. I want a spin off with her. Her actress is very much like her in real life.
She is just a soldier loyal to the throne....what could she possibly do for an hour 30 minutes that could be actually interesting?
She is one of if not the most "Not free?" characters in the movie....she must do whatever the throne asks.

Shes a brilliant supporting character no doubt....but as a lead character not a chance.

Remember they were Royal guards so they didnt usually go on missions or whatever, most of their time is just chilling in Wakanda or a few following the king.

On Topic
Im glad im not the only one who thought the camera work was kinda wonky....some of the action scenes were irking me the wrong way because of the camera.

And the CGI in some scenes was abysmal....yes abysmal, the movie doesnt get a pass because its a predominately black movie, its still Mahvel.

As an African, i actually didnt HATE the accents for the most part....they did their best and it wasnt cringeworthy.....which is saying alot because hearing none-africans do african accents usually ends with me looking sideways.
Funnily enough Klaue actually had one of the best accents in the movie and was a character that didnt deserve to be killed off so....easily? He should have actually been arrested in Wakanda, seems like a waste of a good character who was already getting built up nicely.
 
Oct 27, 2017
331
Awww man. Since being a parent I tend to watch stuff streaming online if I can’t wait for DVD release and I REALLY regret doing that with BP. Immediately booked childcare and a date night with the wife to see it properly.

From what I saw: it could’ve done with another half hour or so in the middle. As not an African-American I needed a bit more hand holding on Killmongers motives to really see him as three dimensional. I ended up getting his point about Wakanda helping but finding the jump to “arm all the people” a bit of a stretch. Also I really wanted to see more of the struggle between Wakandans and Killmonger after he took over. That bit felt rushed. Also disappointed Serkis got killed off as quick as he did, I liked his character.

Really hoping for an extended directors cut and a quick sequel.

Oh and as a white as fuck guy: anyone who felt uncomfortable watching that in any way needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. It wasn’t overtly “black” in any way that made it inaccessible. Just a damn good superhero movie for those without close personal feelings about the subject matter and from the looks of it a whole lot more to those with said feelings.
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,318
Saw it yesterday,

Great film - Excellent casting

Well realised world, Wakanda is so beautiful you just dont want to leave and the sunsets are breathtaking.

An interesting thing I noticed was that the streets were not paved over, you dont need tarmac when all our modes of transportation fucking floats

Special shout out to the coronation scenes on the boats on the way to the waterfall.

I'll have so much more to say in time. But an excellent time out at the cinema, the people I saw it with had a fantastic conversation about it all.
 
Oct 25, 2017
245
I've seen the movie twice and there's nothing I can add that already hasn't been stated ad nauseam. It was phenomenal. The larger takeaway for me personally is the potential for Afro-Futuristic/Afro-Fantasy to be brought to the forefront of pop culture. I want to see Elder Scrolls: Hammerfell, an Afro-Centric Game of Thrones, etc. We all know Hollywood tends to learn the wrong lessons more often than not but I'm hoping this time will be different.
 

Paradox House

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,115
Just watched it. Its a brilliant film. Could go into a lot of things but I'll just say my favourite scenes:

Both challenge scenes are phenomanal, you feel anything could happen - which really helps with the defeat later on.

Loved the car chase scene and the plane scene. The physical VR like cutting with conversations and scenes of the cars/planes really sell it. Is this from the books or is this the director? Works superbly.

Acting was top notch - they had fun with it whilst clearly giving their all. Costumes and sets were great. Mountain tribe were my faves (I actually expected a generic story where they take over and make everything terrible) and I really like how Wakanda is not a utopia, mistakes can be made and there are rivalries.

Niggles (they didnt really detract from the film but if fixed would have added to it).

Villain I think they tried to make more dimensional and whilst I got his motivations as a person he does descend onto generic marvel villain. I mean give him sooommmme light and shade, hes not even got a real plan and the film conviently forgets to tell us who exactly he is arming - its all a bit too broad. I do like that hes not some American here to save Africa though - there is a shitty film in another universe where hes the hero returning to defeat the man who killed his father and 'save' Wakanda.

Also what the fuck happens to Martin Freemans character at the end? I read it as he escaped but could easily be he tried to but died. Did I miss something or did he simply disappear? Seemed a bit strange as he could at least tie into the new regimes decision to open up?

Anyway I've been dreading Infinity Wars but now want to see more Black Panther so that tells it all really.
 
Oct 30, 2017
533
Los Angeles
Making a compelling movie is harder than writing a comic book that makes tchalla an omniscient being.

Tchalla has to have flaws and has to make mistakes, and learn and grow.

This is called character development
Why? He doesn't have to have flaws. He's 30+ and has had both his parents/money/education his entire life. I don't think we needed to see T'Challa making mistakes at all. Now, if he's an improved individual in the sequel with more of the focus of the film being on him then I'm ok with him learning and growing in this film.

All his weaknesses did in this film was make him the 4th most interesting character in a movie "alledgedly" about him.
 
Oct 27, 2017
703
Also what the fuck happens to Martin Freemans character at the end? I read it as he escaped but could easily be he tried to but died. Did I miss something or did he simply disappear? Seemed a bit strange as he could at least tie into the new regimes decision to open up?

Anyway I've been dreading Infinity Wars but now want to see more Black Panther so that tells it all really.
I might be missing your point but Ross is shown quite a few times in the audience in the mid credits scene
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,011
So not in the actual film then ;) Will catch on youtube at some point but thanks for the heads up!
United Nations is the ending to the movie, it's the conclusion of all plot elements introduced in the film. The Wakandan outreach center in California will not make sense except with the context of what happens in the UN scene.
 
Oct 28, 2017
857
Saw it yesterday
Great movie ,I wish marvel stop wasting their villains (and the great actors who played it)

Killmonger would be amazing as the constant antagonist,like Loki
 
Dec 10, 2017
267
I get up when the credits come on. Anyway the pre-credits ending (you know when films end) is a clear conclusion - it ties up the films themes very well.

Will catch it later.
Marvel movies don't end until the credits do. Usually the after credits bit is either a joke or a leadin to another film but the after main credits before scroll is part of the movie.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,011
Marvel Studios credit sequences are usually one of the best parts of the movie though, excellent visual design, great music, they are so fun to watch.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,966
Also what the fuck happens to Martin Freemans character at the end? I read it as he escaped but could easily be he tried to but died. Did I miss something or did he simply disappear? Seemed a bit strange as he could at least tie into the new regimes decision to open up?
This is my biggest plot question. The post credits scene (there are two) shows he's alive so he apparently escaped. But how did he escape, who was flying the various transports, and what happened to the final one which was blowing up the wall to the lab (why the lab has an exposed wall spaceships can fly up to is another question but one can assume there are reasons like manufacturing vehicles :P)?

I also wanted to know what happened to the guy who kneeled to his wife, but I can understand cutting that short and just assuming he got punished (I thought he ended up getting a bunch of the warrior ladies murdered and possibly some others, unless it was a very PG situation where everyone was merely injured badly).
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,105
That Tim Hardaway line in the intro brought back a lot of childhood memories for me. In 1992 I started to collect basketball cards and played ball every day at school.
 
Oct 25, 2017
769
Some people left when the credits came on, more left after the first scene. I assume it was because it was a late showing and many had seen it last weekend.
 

Fuu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,023
I can understand not waiting for the end-credits scene, but the mid-credits one comes up fairly fast and you get some cool visuals and music while you wait. The vibranium dioramas were ace.
 
Dec 19, 2017
3,140
My buddy from Germany is visiting, hasn't seen the movie yet. So I'll be seeing BP for the third time tomorrow. The first time I've watchd a movie 3 times in a cinema, since The Matrix in 1999.

Wakanda forever!
 
Dec 12, 2017
6,093
The next time someone brings up Blade, Catwoman, Blankman or Meteorman as reasons we shouldn't give a shit about Black Panther, I'm bringing up Batman Forever, Superman 4, Mystery Men, Barb Wire and Tank Girl as reasons they shouldn't give a shit about the other 17 MCU films.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,203
finally saw it and its incredible. Wakanda, alongside with Dr. strange, really elevate Earths chances to actually survive against cosmic beings like thanos. Their technology seem so advanced compared to the stuff we have seen in the MCU so far. It feels more like asgardian or xandar level although we havent seen any spaceships from them (yet).

The characters are all really likable, including the villains, but the women really need a special shout out. Shuri is such a brilliant little sister/genius scientist, Okoye is one of the most badass characters ever (her against scarjo would have been incredibly interesting as Tchalla said in Civil War) and Nikia, while being overshadowed by the aforementioned two is also a strong interesting character.

I am really thrilled that Tchalla allowed the world in the MCU to use wakandan technology, it will be incredibly cool to see how it will enhance earths existing technology.