Again, you're mistaking me saying that people who militantly try to defend movie lists are weird, with me saying that there is no conversation to be had. Sure there's conversation to be had, people are having it in this thread. :P
I find it incredibly hillarious how a lot of the reasoning why Black Panther doesn't belong in topping RT's best film of all time list reminds me of this guy:
I wonder how many people on this site (or on other, more film-enthusiast oriented forums) have seen it, too. Outside of academic circles (and among filmmakers themselves) it seems to have almost been forgotten to history. It is surely one of the greatest films ever made.
What is the Shawshank Redemption doing there?
What I'm saying is that art moves forward. There are a lot of cult classics out there that I love and will feature on "best of all time lists". My point is that I don't see fanboys overreacting for the film being criticized. It's the other way around: I'm seeing people that don't agree that the film is getting the kind of raving reviews trying to come up with a variation of mental gymnastics to say that it's not valid. When in fact, it is. There are people that have TDK as the best film of all time. Others, that have The God Father, or Tokyo Story, Blade Runner 2049, The Shining or what have you. Now, we will have people claiming that Black Panther is the best film of all time. And that's also okay.
Is there even a top 1000 film list? It's normally a top 100 right?
It hasn't even been a week since BP came out. Why can't we praise a movie without being hyperbolic?
The true successor to TDK will knock everyone's socks off.
Because when a film resonates this much with someone that's what they do. It happened with The Dark Knight, Star Wars before that and The Avengers and Wonder Woman after that. Two better questions would be: 1) why can't we allow people to enjoy things? 2) why can't we admit that just because we don't agree that a film is getting praised as one of the best of all time it doesn't mean that it isn't? Time has nothing to do with this. It has to do with gatekeeping. Let's not do that.
I think Spider Man was in the book I read (1001 movies you should see before you die) so that's something.
Of course time has a lot to do with it. Inception used to be the best movie of all time :b
Because on the internet, especially in regards to entertainment, it always devolves into hyperbole. Something is either the best thing ever or the worst thing ever.
When you refresh the page, you can see it for a second and then it just disappears lol.It’s not there anymore
Disagreeing that this movie is the "best of all time" is very different from "disallowing people to enjoy things", whatever that means. You're saying like people who disagree with it having the number 1 spot are demanding those who like it to step down or something.
Since a lot of the movie critic "industry" is heavily based on Rotten Tomatoes nowadays, them declaring a newly released Marvel movie as the best movie ever (fuck off all the stuff that's been praised for decades, there's a new superhero movie out for a week that we can already declare historic far more than The Godfather, Citizen Kane, etc.) just further reinforces all the negative thoughts people have about the way they rate movies, which totally isn't in line with other industries (video games or music, for example). I am a huge fan of Saw movies, for one, I always go to out and watch when there's a new one. They are some of my favourite movies ever, I've seen them all multiple times. But I have the sanity to not declare them "BEST MOVIES EVER" because I can see through their shortcomings and errors. Plus there's the fact that we're suddenly comparing a movie that just came out and most people saw it perhaps once to masterpieces analyzed back and forth for decades. What's that good for?
That's not the same. Inception never got the kind of overwhelming praise. Not from the critics, not from the critics. Yes, Nolan has a cult following just like Villeneuve now has a cult following and clearly Peele and Coogler are developing one as well, but Black Panther means something to a lot of people and it's actually an incredibly layered blockbuster film. It amazes me how much thought and heart was put into it. We are talking about a film that has the potential to kickstart a revolution in western cinema, while Inception is like... I don't know, I guess it's better than Interstellar, maybe? Both pale next to Arrival, Sicario or anything that Villeneuve has ever done though.
Inception was a revelation when it came out. People couldn't shut up about it.
No one is saying that people can't enjoy things. But if there really were people talking about Wonder Woman or Avengers being some of the best films of all time (I must have missed that) then that talk certainly faded quite fast after the films left theaters. Which seems to support the idea that recency bias is having some impact here. I'm not actually sure that many people are praising these films as some of the greatest of all time. There just seems to be some quirks with how this computer-generated list determines film rankings that has produced this result.
No one is saying that Saw is a good film. Hell, most of the critics would say it isn't. Classics will always be classics, but art moves forward, not backwards. What Black Panther has achieved wasn't gratuitous, the kind of praise that it's getting from the critics and public isn't about people being politically correct like most of the things that people are saying here truly come down to it. It's a superb film, with so many layers that we have barely started reaching out yet. I like my share of "bad" films, those that get shitted by the critics, but that's not the case of Black Panther, and rightfully so. Yes, some will consider a "Marvel movie" the best movie ever. Some will consider a "Marvel movie" with a black character and cast the best film ever. Others, will consider a "DC movie" with a white dude and white cast the best film ever. Learn to accept things.
Ok I agree that PB is relevant in pop culture as a stepping stone towards more inclusive productions. But as a movie (and that's what matters when you rank the best movies) it's standard MCU fair.
It didn't get nearly the same kind of overwhelming praise that Black Panther is getting, neither resonated with audiences as much as Black Panther is doing. Yes, it was big among geek circles and especially Nolan super fans, but it did a very normal box office run and a very run of the mil critical and public reception. People see it through tinted eyes because of their own perceptions and circles, evidence shows otherwise.
There are. Just like there will be people saying that Black Panther is the best film of all time. I find it curious that you didn't mention The Dark Knight though: why to you is "okay" to say let's say The Dark Knight, but not Black Panther? As far as I'm concerned and literally the majority of critics, Black Panther is the better film. I get it that it might be your favorite film, but it's okay to not gatekeep films getting considered as "best films" because it isn't your favorite. There's room to everyone.
Once again, disagree. I don't think it's the usual "MCU fair" and I think that the critical reception proves that this isn't the case. It might not be for you, but the opinion of the majority is that the film is a masterpiece. And honestly, I agree with that assessment.
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It's a lot of fun. I feel like almost anyone would enjoy it. Don't let stuff like this determine your expectations, and just have a good time in Wakanda.
That's a lot of question marks. Not sure why. Read the reviews. :)
The majority of critics consider The Dark Knight a better film though. Read the reviews. :)
Who? Who are these people calling Avengers and Wonder Woman the greatest films of all time? Who is calling Black Panther the greatest film of all time? I can't actually find anyone who seriously believes this.
Huh? What are you even talking about? When did I say it's OK to say that about The Dark Knight but not Black Panther? I think it's an equally silly claim to make about The Dark Knight. I think a lot of the hyperbolic claims made about films of these kind are directly related to their status as highly promoted, widely distributed blockbusters.
The consensus on RT says: Black Panther elevates superhero cinema to thrilling new heights while telling one of the MCU's most absorbing stories -- and introducing some of its most fully realized characters.
Black Panther:
Can you point me to a single critic who believes this is the greatest film of all time?
You’re implying that the critics themselves consider this the best movie of all time
