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DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,276
In terms of movies, I'd agree (Although Civil War wasn't as fun for me as BP was), but in terms of pop culture BP is HUGE for showing that "black" movies don't have to be parodies or blacksploitation in order to be successful.

I'd agree with Boseman's performance being underrated. MBJ is fantastic of course, but he's given much easier material to work with. It's a bit of the same dilemma of Bale and Ledger in TDK: the guy who plays the villain is generally dealt the better hand in terms of range and opportunities.

Yup. One thing I love about BP is that it comes after the aforementioned films such as Get Out and Moonlight. Indie, horror, blockbuster: I feel it's the final blow to the very idea that black representation in film can't be as momentous and as successful as their white counterparts.

tenor.gif


Damn straight it says a lot. The idea that black-led films can only be culturally important if they're focused on our pain and struggle is disgusting. I'm glad this movie came along to say "Not every movie about us has to revolve around that."

I agree with all of this
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Watched it. I enjoyed it but I guess my expectations were unnecessarily high due to the massive critical successs/high ratings and I left a bit disappointed. Among the best of marvel though.
 

Deleted member 29806

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Nov 2, 2017
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Germany
Wasn't prepared to enter such a militant thread. The state your country is in when it needs to rely on a movie like this for a black identity is pretty sad.

The problem is, if black people watch the movie because of the black cast and cultural impact while the white people watch it because it is is a good movie, nothing is won or proven.

I deeply feel with your country as this something hard to understand from the outside, even with the problems we have here in Germany and Europe.
 

Deleted member 11046

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Oct 27, 2017
942
Wasn't prepared to enter such a militant thread. The state your country is in when it needs to rely on a movie like this for a black identity is pretty sad.

The problem is, if black people watch the movie because of the black cast and cultural impact while the white people watch it because it is is a good movie, nothing is won or proven.

I deeply feel with your country as this something hard to understand from the outside, even with the problems we have here in Germany and Europe.
Why do you feel, first, that this thread is somehow indicative of black Americans relying on Black Panther for our identity. Elaborate here. And secondly, what about this thread and its responses make you believe black people are exclusively seeing the film because of its cast and cultural significance and not, like our white countrymen, because it's also a great movie?
 

Deleted member 29806

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Nov 2, 2017
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Germany
Why do you feel, first, that this thread is somehow indicative of black Americans relying on Black Panther for our identity. Elaborate here. And secondly, what about this thread and its responses make you believe black people are exclusively seeing the film because of its cast and cultural significance and not, like our white countrymen, because it's also a great movie?
There was an "if". I usually don't think things are that black & white (no pun intended).

But getting attacked for saying this is just a good movie and ignoring the cultural impact I felt like people see much more in it.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,675
There was an "if". I usually don't think things are that black & white (no pun intended).

But getting attacked for saying this is just a good movie and ignoring the cultural impact I felt like people see much more in it.
Black Americans see their own personal struggles, philosophical takes, and culture being done justice in a wide-reaching blockbuster fantasy setting that everyone can enjoy, and such media representation is going to go a long way in establishing precedent for the competency of black actors and filmmakers, as well as general empathy towards real black struggles on part of white people when they watch it. It is a small part of racial progress, but a part of it nonetheless.

If you're a German with no real experience with black American contexts and viewpoints, I don't expect you to have empathized with the film's potential sociopolitical ramifications despite watching it from beginning to end.

But trust and believe, we didn't need Black Panther to have a sense of cultural identity. No need to even raise it as a hypothetical in here.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,747
Who exactly said black americans "need to rely on a movie like this for a black identity"?

You really sounding dumb as fuck right now, German dude
 

Marvelous

Member
Nov 3, 2017
347
Wasn't prepared to enter such a militant thread. The state your country is in when it needs to rely on a movie like this for a black identity is pretty sad.

The problem is, if black people watch the movie because of the black cast and cultural impact while the white people watch it because it is is a good movie, nothing is won or proven.

I deeply feel with your country as this something hard to understand from the outside, even with the problems we have here in Germany and Europe.
Black Panther's cultural impact doesn't have to do with the 'state of the country.' The true 'state of the country,' is that we're at the result of centuries of atrocities and severe oppression based on skin color. Black Panther marks the revolution from a previous state where black Americans were stripped of, and lived without, much of their cultural identity and representation for centuries at the hands of their oppressors.

So, maybe it is sad that people have to look to a movie to find identity and representation - but if so, not for the reason you think. What's sad is that it's actually because black Americans have been beaten down for so long that Black Panther - even something, to you, as inconsequential as a blockbuster movie - is actually that much of a significant change from the previous status quo. What's sad is that you can't understand, or even attempt to understand, that this is a big deal when you're fighting from the bottom of a ingrained cultural oppression of your entire race of people.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,903
Black Panther is pretty damn good.

It works on multiple levels.

Hell, I have no problem with it being at the top. I don't have a legit argument against it.

Maybe I'm biased based on current events and modern-day storytelling, but it's just as good as the other classic movies.
 

Deleted member 29806

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Nov 2, 2017
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Black Americans see their own personal struggles, philosophical takes, and culture being done justice in a wide-reaching blockbuster fantasy setting that everyone can enjoy, and such media representation is going to go a long way in establishing precedent for the competency of black actors and filmmakers, as well as general empathy towards real black struggles on part of white people when they watch it. It is a small part of racial progress, but a part of it nonetheless.

If you're a German with no real experience with black American contexts and viewpoints, I don't expect you to have empathized with the film's potential sociopolitical ramifications despite watching it from beginning to end.

But trust and believe, we didn't need Black Panther to have a sense of cultural identity. No need to even raise it as a hypothetical in here.
Fine, still something like a black president seems more important to me. And I believe and hope most people in your country take black panther as something natural like we do over here.

The rise of a vocal minority of racist assholes under a POS president and return to darker times is really bad but I fear a movie will not change that, only a majority standing up and maybe hitting the streets against that shit will help.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,675
Fine, still something like a black president seems more important to me.
Do you honestly think black people think Obama was less important than Black Panther just because we're excited for the film for the things it does? We're not idiots; why even bring him up????

The rise of a vocal minority of racist assholes under a POS president and return to darker times is really bad
Racists aren't a vocal minority in America. If you lived here you'd probably know that.

but I fear a movie will not change that, only a majority standing up and maybe hitting the streets against that shit will help.
Why do you think black people are placing their hopes in Black Panther to change the country's sociopolitical reality?

Why do you think Black Panther has to accomplish anything of that caliber to be worthy of literary merit?

Why do you think black people can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time; that we're not doing political work just because we're excited for a film?

What is wrong with you?
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,747
Fine, still something like a black president seems more important to me. And I believe and hope most people in your country take black panther as something natural like we do over here.

The rise of a vocal minority of racist assholes under a POS president and return to darker times is really bad but I fear a movie will not change that, only a majority standing up and maybe hitting the streets against that shit will help.

why don't you just tell us how we should feel about everything?

cause here you are telling us that we apparently treat Black Panther as more important than Obama

you know for a fact that you're being a racist asshole right now
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,675
why don't you just tell us how we should feel about everything?

cause here you are telling us that we apparently treat Black Panther as more important than Obama

you know for a fact that you're being a racist asshole right now
Silly blacks being excited for a superhero movie I don't care for. Let me, as a German, tell you what you should really be focused on if you want to fix your troubles, despite not being able to read a two-paragraph OP.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,747
Silly blacks being excited for a superhero movie I don't care for. Let me, as a German, tell you what you should really be focused on if you want to fix your troubles, despite not being able to read a two-paragraph OP.

and this is an asshole that wants to act like people are being unfairly attacked for saying the film is just good

nah, it's everything else y'all say that lets us know how you really feel
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,556
Fine, still something like a black president seems more important to me. And I believe and hope most people in your country take black panther as something natural like we do over here.

The rise of a vocal minority of racist assholes under a POS president and return to darker times is really bad but I fear a movie will not change that, only a majority standing up and maybe hitting the streets against that shit will help.
So if this isn't the biggest event in a black person's life they can't be excited about it? Black people can't be excited about anything until it tops Obama becoming president? I'm pretty sure Germans get excited about the Olympics, does that mean your country is in a sad state because of it?
 

Griselbrand

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,237
Fine, still something like a black president seems more important to me. And I believe and hope most people in your country take black panther as something natural like we do over here.

The rise of a vocal minority of racist assholes under a POS president and return to darker times is really bad but I fear a movie will not change that, only a majority standing up and maybe hitting the streets against that shit will help.

This sounds a lot like what Ben Shapiro was saying in that one Twitter post that got its own thread.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,556
Yeah probably, but your country now seem even so much stranger that I literally stopped understanding what you all are telling me.
Well you came in the thread and said America must be in a sad state of affairs due to the reception of this movie and how black people are positively impacted by it. You then made an outside comparison to President Obama as something black people should be excited so.

I replied asking if black people aren't allowed to be excited about something culturally relevant until it tops President Obama? I'd still like that question answered.

I then made an outside comparison to the Olympics, something Germans (and just about everyone else) get very excited and patriotic over. Why is that any better than being impacted by a culturally uplifting movie?

I'm not trying to be hostile with you, just trying to get your point of view and then I can possibly explain why the movie matters.
 

D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
Fine, still something like a black president seems more important to me. And I believe and hope most people in your country take black panther as something natural like we do over here.

The rise of a vocal minority of racist assholes under a POS president and return to darker times is really bad but I fear a movie will not change that, only a majority standing up and maybe hitting the streets against that shit will help.

In Germany, you still have PoC excited for this movie. It isn't contained to the US how cool it is to see.

If anything it should mean more to people outside of the US...
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,747
Yeah probably, but your country now seem even so much stranger that I literally stopped understanding what you all are telling me. It is obvious I have so little understanding of your culture any further discussion would just be fruitless.

You knew you didn't know anything about what you were talking about in the first place.

You came into this discussion making sweeping baseless generalizations and acting like you're not equipped all of a sudden is fake as shit
 

Deleted member 4247

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Oct 25, 2017
8,896
Alright, I haven't seen it yet (don't really watch MCU movies anymore, can't keep up), but really? I understand it's an important movie in some ways, but the best movie ever? A Marvel superhero movie? I just have a hard time believing that.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Alright, I haven't seen it yet (don't really watch MCU movies anymore, can't keep up), but really? I understand it's an important movie in some ways, but the best movie ever? A Marvel superhero movie? I just have a hard time believing that.
If it was a "DC superhero movie" with Batman would you have the same reaction?

For years, TDK fans have proudly said that The Dark Knight is one of the best films of all time. What is wrong on the film that is getting more critical AND public acclaim than The Dark Knight getting the same kind of honor? And what do you mean by "an important movie in some ways"? As far I can tell as a film buff, Black Panther is important and excellent on every way. So... what do you mean?
 

Branu

Banned
Feb 7, 2018
1,029
Fine, still something like a black president seems more important to me. And I believe and hope most people in your country take black panther as something natural like we do over here.

The rise of a vocal minority of racist assholes under a POS president and return to darker times is really bad but I fear a movie will not change that, only a majority standing up and maybe hitting the streets against that shit will help.

Racists in America are the majority, not the minority.
 

Deleted member 4247

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Oct 25, 2017
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If it was a "DC superhero movie" with Batman would you have the same reaction?

Yes? I don't really understand the question.

But Batman v Superman wasn't very good. And I haven't seen any other DCEU movies, except the first Superman one. I'm generally not a fan of these "universes", there's just so many fucking movies I have to watch if I want to keep up. I preferred the standalone Spidey and Batman trilogies (but certainly wouldn't consider any of them one of the best movies ever).
 

Deleted member 29806

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I can only explain my point of view with a comparison to Germany, which you probably find totally racist.
We have a lot of immigrants here and I just take them for granted like everone else living here. If everyone did I believe everything would be fine. Unfortunately there are people like the AfD spreading poisonous thoughts and I think that should be fought.

If someone made a movie with and about immigrants (probably there are, not a fan of german movies), I wouldn't care much as it should on the one hand be just normal and on the other hand would unfortunately not change the views of a bunch of Neonazis at all.

Anyway, if people enjoy those movies, fine. But probably here the cultural and political impact is low. If I want to fight Neonazis I'd speak out against them and I did, as unfortunately I know people believing in some of the poison the AfD spreads.

The situation is different obviously, so I decided I am out as it is bigger than I thought...to the point where I don't understand why you are attacking me.

And what I stand by: I don't think your country is in a bad state because people enjoy the movie for whatever reasons, but because of the necessity to see it as something special when in a perfect world it should just be taken for granted and totally everyday normal.
 
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ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Yes? I don't really understand the question.

But Batman v Superman wasn't very good. And I haven't seen any other DCEU movies, except the first Superman one. I'm generally not a fan of these "universes", there's just so many fucking movies I have to watch if I want to keep up. I preferred the standalone Spidey and Batman trilogies (but certainly wouldn't consider any of them one of the best movies ever).

It doesn't matter what you or me think. There are people that consider TDK one of the best movies ever. Now Black Panther is in the conversation, and you people are trying to deny this for claims that it's a "Marvel superhero movie". It's much more than that. And better than Nolan's TDK trilogy combined.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,747
A film's ability to impact people and culture is one of the points I consider when ranking films.

The ability of Black Panther to upset so many racists absolutely makes this film a contender for best movie of all time, for me.

These people are SHOOK at how different this film is over every other movie they have ever seen in their life. The fact that this film has attracted so many people to watch it and break multiple records has these racists MAD AS FUCK, still a week after release

from Birth of a Nation to Black Panther. That's why it's a reasonable contender for the best film of all time, bitch
 

Deleted member 4247

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Oct 25, 2017
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It doesn't matter what you or me think. There are people that consider TDK one of the best movies ever. Now Black Panther is in the conversation, and you people are trying to deny this for claims that it's a "Marvel superhero movie". It's much more than that. And better than Nolan's TDK trilogy combined.

Alright, I'll watch it for sure if it's really that great. I just have a hard time believing it I guess, exactly because it's a Marvel superhero movie and those are generally decent to good at best. Very few of the ones I've seen, if any, have been GREAT. So that's why I've been cynically assuming that this movie's scores have been inflated by its significance as a black superhero movie. Which I understand IS important for many (I'm not black, so I can't pretend to fully understand this), but it doesn't mean the movie itself is amazing. But maybe they really did knock it out of the park and make one of the best movies ever, in which case I'll definitely watch it even though the MCU generally doesn't interest me that much anymore. I'll gladly be proven wrong!