Black Quarterbacks and the NFL

LionPride · Nov 16, 2017

For generations, the NFL and the relationship between black QBs and them has been rocky at best and awful at worst. They aren't always given the chance to fail like white QBs are. Never have been. The latest example of this is Tyrod Taylor who was benched for rookie Nathan Peterman after his only poor game of the season. A playoff team benched their QB after one bad game. The QB who has led them to a couple of their .500 season since the 90s, of which there are few.

Nick Wright, someome who is admitedly overzealous sometimes, has spoken a lot this season about black QBs in the wake of Colin Kapernick and this latest situation had him heated. So Resetera, anything to say? Anything about the language used to describe black players?

Deleted member 14002 · Nov 16, 2017

The man speaks the truth.

I don't follow the NFL.

TheMango55 · Nov 16, 2017

Tyrod Taylor being benched was obviously ridiculous.

I agree with some of what he is saying but he's reaching a bit with the draft position. I love Russell Wilson (NC State alum) but it wasn't because he's black that he went in the 3rd round. RG3 is black and went #2 overall in the same year.

Faust · Nov 16, 2017

It's more incompetence than anything with Tyrod. There was an article saying if you run rate stats he is having a better season than Jim Kelley ever has.

Angelus Errare · Nov 16, 2017

There has always been a huge double standard in how NFL treats black QBs versus white QBs. It's so blatant but every time it's brought up some joker pulls the "you're pulling the race card" card.

xbhaskarx · Nov 16, 2017

TheMango55 said:
RG3 is black and went #2 overall in the same year.

Let's not forget Vince Young was picked third, this Jamarcus Russell was a #1 pick over Calvin Johnson

and I still remember Aaron Rodgers sitting by himself after everyone else got drafted.

LionPride · Nov 16, 2017

xbhaskarx said:
Let's not forget this guy was a #1 pick over Calvin Johnson

and I still remember Aaron Rogers sitting by himself after everyone else got drafted.

Does this make the point any less valid?

LGHT_TRSN · Nov 16, 2017

Heard about them benching Tyrod on the radio this morning and I was perplexed. Can't say I disagree with any of the arguments he's making.

xbhaskarx · Nov 16, 2017

LionPride said:
Does this make the point any less valid?

He is using examples from the draft, you can easily find examples in the other direction as well. That's why cherry picking a few cases is anecdotal evidence and essentially meaningless (whether this guy does it in one direction or I do it in the opposite direction).
If the folks over at FiveThirtyEight do an overall analysis of QB draft picks, that could show something. Saying "look at how low Russell Wilson was drafted" doesn't show much. It's about as useful as someone arguing "white Quarterbacks are undervalued, look at where Tom Brady was drafted."

RoninRay · Nov 16, 2017

Remember when the panthers owner told cam newton when he drafted him not to get crown rows are tattoos. Yes black QBs get treated bad in the NFL but a huge portion of NFL fans rather just ignore it.

Faust · Nov 16, 2017

LionPride said:
Does this make the point any less valid?

Yes, draft order has always been a clusterfuck. We could have had JJ Watt over gabert or the other defunct QB. I think a better telling sign is longevity. The amount of failed black QBs vs. failed white QBs as long term backups on teams. Also, with more of these "non-typical" QBs it's not surprising them getting rated harder in general. The higher risk of injury hurts draft order, looks at how RBs have fallen from grace. We were "crazy" to draft Fournette so high.

jwhit28 · Nov 16, 2017

Tyrod Taylor isn't a perfect example. It's similar to what happened to Alex Smith. A steady reliable check down QB being replaced by "potential". That isn't saying that the problem doesn't exist, just the Buffalo example isn't a great one to bring up. Taylor definitely got a raw deal though and I hope he finds a starting job next year where he can be in as good a position as Smith currently is in KC. That goes for Jacoby Brissett as well if Andrew Luck's magic European medicine works. I think the more telling case will be what happens with Teddy Bridgewater going into next year.

Acerac · Nov 16, 2017

I was gonna say that benching TT for the rest of the game made sense given how it was already over, then I find out he is benched this week as well.

...

Buffalo sure loves their no playoff streak, don't they?

Imtehman · Nov 16, 2017

iono man cam newton and jamies winston were #1 overall picks. Maybe stop race baiting ?

someone mentioned alex smith, are we going to say NFL is racist against white people since alex smith got replace by kaepernick ?

For a sport predominantly played by black people, its really hard to agree that the NFL, coaches, Owners are racist against black people.

Thatguy · Nov 16, 2017

We're still in love with Russel Wilson in SEA. The guy is a machine though. Bad games are extremely rare and his "bad games" are still usually pretty good.

JABEE · Nov 16, 2017

The NY Giants have yet to start a black quarterback in a single game. They are only NFL team remaining.

Tyrod Taylor's treatment in Buffalo has been odd.

Svadhyaya · Nov 16, 2017

Thatguy said:
We're still in love with Russel Wilson in SEA. The guy is a machine though. Bad games are extremely rare and his "bad games" are still usually pretty good.

You know damn well that light-skinned, god fearing Russel Wilson isn't treated the same as other Black QBs.

The Almighty Tria · Nov 16, 2017

There is definitely something about the Tyrod Taylor situation, but I don't think it's related to race. Firstly, he is completely average, which automatically makes you more expendable.

Secondly, I've heard from a lot of analysts and such that he is kind of awful at reads and leaving open guys on the field. I've noticed a little bit of this, but I don't watch a lot of Bills games.

Thirdly, I think a lot of people aren't really looking into Nathan Peterman and the possibility that the dude has been impressing them enough to win the job.

LionPride · Nov 16, 2017

JABEE said:
The NY Giants have yet to start a black quarterback in a single game. They are only NFL team remaining.

Tyrod Taylor's treatment in Buffalo has been odd.

Buffalo is not known for liking black people

Cat Party · Nov 16, 2017

Imtehman said:
iono man cam newton and jamies winston were #1 overall picks. Maybe stop race baiting ?

someone mentioned alex smith, are we going to say NFL is racist against white people since alex smith got replace by kaepernick ?

For a sport predominantly played by black people, its really hard to agree that the NFL, coaches, Owners are racist against black people.

You are deliberately misrepresenting the argument. Black QBs have to excel to a ridiculous degree in college to be top picks. And when they get a chance in the NFL, they are held to a different standard. You don't have to be overtly racist to be biased.

The existence of a long standing bias against black QBs is undeniable.

iyox · Nov 16, 2017

This guy has never watched a Bills game. His use of the stats from the Jets game proves he is trying set up controversy. Tyrod has not had a good season. It was ok when the defense was playing lights out, but now that the D is struggling, the complete ineptitude of the offense has to be addressed. While it is probably not fair for it to fall on Tyrod, it's pretty much the only lever they have at this point.

Faust · Nov 16, 2017

The Almighty Tria said:
There is definitely something about the Tyrod Taylor situation, but I don't think it's related to race. Firstly, he is completely average, which automatically makes you more expendable.

Secondly, I've heard from a lot of analysts and such that he is kind of awful at reads and leaving open guys on the field. I've noticed a little bit of this, but I don't watch a lot of Bills games.

Thirdly, I think a lot of people aren't really looking into Nathan Peterman and the possibility that the dude has been impressing them enough to win the job.

There's no way Peterman can be showing anything in practice that justifies benching Taylor after one bad performance when the team and himself have performed as well as they have. Their defense gave up 47 points, Taylor could play like Jesus and he's not winning that game.

maxxpower · Nov 16, 2017

LionPride said:
Buffalo is not known for liking black people

Isn't New England the whitest team though?

The Almighty Tria · Nov 16, 2017

Cat Party said:
You are deliberately misrepresenting the argument. Black QBs have to excel to a ridiculous degree in college to be top picks. And when they get a chance in the NFL, they are held to a different standard. You don't have to be overtly racist to be biased.

The existence of a long standing bias against black QBs is undeniable.

I think the worst bias against black QBs is the thinking that they can only be successful if they are on the run, and aren't "smart" enough for pocket passing.

Maybe I'm just imagining it, but 99% of black QBs I see that are hyped solely because they are "freak athletes" that can run. It feels like that's the only thing the NFL looks for in a black QB.

Pooh · Nov 16, 2017

I dunno man they gave Michael Vick a pretty huge margin of "error."

Seriously though on the topic of Tyrod Taylor, he hasn't been stellar. I say that as somebody who has drafted him twice in the last two years for Fantasy Football.

The problem is real but I don't know that Tyrod is an example of it.

EnronERA · Nov 16, 2017

I honestly doubt Tyrod Taylor's benching is permanent. He's an OK qb - but that's it. Like he's in the 18-25 range when it comes to NFL qbs. He had a poor game, buffalo's offense had been playing poorly for a couple of games now, its probably just intended to be an attention-grabber.

Don't think there's anything wrong with the benching.

Edit: the poster above me has it absolutely right about Mike Vick. He was an average passer beyond his freak arm strength and didn't always read the field well, but he kept getting multiple passes from everyone.

In the end these teams want to win more than anything - i don't think they give a shit about what color the QB is. Fans and analysts and everyone else are the only people interested in that sort of thing.

mattlikewhoa · Nov 16, 2017

We've come a long way from when hosts would discuss Football IQ, and the "difference" between various QB's.

And fingers crossed that the Bill tank after this... There's no real reason to bench Tyrod Taylor.

Deleted member 2145 · Nov 16, 2017

yeah I just read an illuminating article on this

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...itz-mccown-watershed-moment-article-1.3633542

it's fucked up for sure. I also hate the coded language in regards to the qb position and being traditionally white. aaron rodgers can be a cocky ass mother fucker all day and it's fine but people fucking hate cam newton when he's winning and showboating and smiling. like legit seething hatred.

jwhit28 · Nov 16, 2017

Imtehman said:
iono man cam newton and jamies winston were #1 overall picks. Maybe stop race baiting ?

someone mentioned alex smith, are we going to say NFL is racist against white people since alex smith got replace by kaepernick ?

For a sport predominantly played by black people, its really hard to agree that the NFL, coaches, Owners are racist against black people.

Most of the owners and a large portion of general managers are still the same people who 30 years ago wouldn't give a black QB a 2nd look. Even in announcing there are still stereotypes of all kinds. If you hear the words sneaky athletic, lunch pail, or any other words that implies the guy wouldn't be there if he wasn't smarter or didn't train harder than everyone else because he is simply unathletic, I guarantee they are talking about a white guy. The local guys love describing Christian McCaffery as sneaky athletic. The dude is the son of a NFL receiver, runs a 4.2 40, and has a 38 inch vert. There is nothing sneaky about him.

LionPride · Nov 16, 2017

The Almighty Tria said:
I think the worst bias against black QBs is the thinking that they can only be successful if they are on the run, and aren't "smart" enough for pocket passing.

Maybe I'm just imagining it, but 99% of black QBs I see that are hyped solely because they are "freak athletes" that can run. It feels like that's the only thing the NFL looks for in a black QB.

No no, you're right

Even QBs who don't really run like Teddy, was pigeonholed into being a runner

When Donovan McNabb willing takes away part of his game bc he didn't wanna be known as a dual threat athlete and pigeonholed into a role of what he was not

jwhit28 said:
Most of the owners and a large portion of general managers are still the same people who 30 years ago wouldn't give a black QB a 2nd look. Even in announcing there are still stereotypes of all kinds. If you hear the words sneaky athletic, lunch pail, or any other words that implies the guy wouldn't be there if he wasn't smarter or didn't train harder than everyone else because he is simply unathletic, I guarantee they are talking about a white guy. The local guys love describing Christian McCaffery as sneaky athletic. The dude is the son of a NFL receiver, runs a 4.2 40, and has a 38 inch vert. There is nothing sneaky about him.

Yep

Jordy Nelson pre ACL tear was always called deceptively quick, the nigga ran a 40 time faster than Dez

Also this article is a necessary read

http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/JSH/JSH1998/JSH2501/jsh2501g.pdf

LJ11 · Nov 16, 2017

Someone pull up clips of Tyrod not being able to hit the Post/Out and Up combos the Bills tried to run in order to kill the 2 Deep Shells the Saints were running, Tyrod missed 1 throw & ran out of the pocket on another. Ask him to hit the dig on a drive combo against T2 and he can't do it consistently. Everyone knows that Tyrod is an average (to slightly above avg) QB, who happens to add extreme value to his game with his legs. The only problem is that his new coaches don't utilize him the same way his previous coaches did, as a run threat to block 8 - 9 man boxes, so you're just left with an avg QB who adds a bit more due to his run threat, which is negated by the current structure of the offense. Hell the fucking Saints dropped 8 repeatedly, just to spy and take that away as well. It's more about the Bills trying to find out what they have in Peterman, realizing that there is no way in hell they're making the playoffs and trying to plan for the future. Also, weren't you suggesting that the Bills sign Kap a few months ago? So it's clear you didn't think Tyrod was doing much for the Bills, or did you want Kap to come back to ride the pine?

The Almighty Tria · Nov 16, 2017

Faust said:
There's no way Peterman can be showing anything in practice that justifies benching Taylor after one bad performance when the team and himself have performed as well as they have. Their defense gave up 47 points, Taylor could play like Jesus and he's not winning that game.

Himself? He isn't a bad quarterback by any means, but he really isn't performing as well as you seem to think he is. He doesn't turn the ball over, which is great, but he ain't winning you games either. He is serviceable.

While I don't agree with benching him, there are a lot of possible factors involving his benching that we might just not know.

Svadhyaya · Nov 16, 2017

Imtehman said:
iono man cam newton and jamies winston were #1 overall picks. Maybe stop race baiting ?

someone mentioned alex smith, are we going to say NFL is racist against white people since alex smith got replace by kaepernick ?

For a sport predominantly played by black people, its really hard to agree that the NFL, coaches, Owners are racist against black people.

Bill Romanowski tweeted this warm message to Cam after his post Super Bowl loss interview

LionPride · Nov 16, 2017

LJ11 said:
Someone pull up clips of Tyrod not being able to hit the Post/Out and Up combos the Bills tried to run in order to kill the 2 Deep Shells the Saints were running, Tyrod missed 1 throw & ran out of the pocket on another. Ask him to hit the dig on a drive combo against T2 and he can't do it consistently. Everyone knows that Tyrod is an average (to slightly above avg) QB, who happens to add extreme value to his game with his legs. The only problem is that his new coaches don't utilize him the same way his previous coaches did, as a run threat to block 8 - 9 man boxes, so you're just left with an avg QB who adds a bit more due to his run threat, which is negated by the current structure of the offense. Hell the fucking Saints dropped 8 repeatedly, just to spy and take that away as well. It's more about the Bills trying to find out what they have in Peterman, realizing that there is no way in hell they're making the playoffs and trying to plan for the future. Also, weren't you suggesting that the Bills sign on Kap a few months ago? So it's clear you didn't think Tyrod was doing much for the Bills, or did you want Kap to come back to ride the pine?

I suggested teams that could use a QB, the Bills have nothing besides Tyrod, they are currently a playoff team, that's just a fact. And they bench their QB after one actual bad game. I realized it was wrong of me to want Kaep on the Bills for multiple reasons

Imtehman said:
iono man cam newton and jamies winston were #1 overall picks. Maybe stop race baiting ?

someone mentioned alex smith, are we going to say NFL is racist against white people since alex smith got replace by kaepernick ?

For a sport predominantly played by black people, its really hard to agree that the NFL, coaches, Owners are racist against black people.

A sport where while we make up 78% of the league, we are 18% of all QBs, and make up a small percentage of coaches along all positions. A sport where there are numerous owners who voted for Trump/donated money to him. A sport where Buddy Ryan said this "Well, you won't be here too long, because I don't like smart niggers"

Faust · Nov 16, 2017

Pooh said:
I dunno man they gave Michael Vick a pretty huge margin of "error."

Seriously though on the topic of Tyrod Taylor, he hasn't been stellar. I say that as somebody who has drafted him twice in the last two years for Fantasy Football.

The problem is real but I don't know that Tyrod is an example of it.

Like what? He played well in the beginning of his career.

BlackSalad · Nov 16, 2017

No denying there is some racism within the NFL but using taylor is a bad example

This article sums everything up pretty well

ESPN Mike Rodak

Although some statistics such as Total QBR favored Taylor, fans saw he was not going to be a franchise quarterback. In benching Taylor, first-year coach Sean McDermott came to the same conclusion and it makes sense.

McDermott's timing in the move, however, raises questions. Taylor either should have been released in the offseason or been given the chance to see through what could be a potential run to the playoffs, and then benched if the Bills were eliminated. That would only have been fair to Taylor and the rest of the veterans in the locker room.

Thatguy · Nov 16, 2017

Svadhyaya said:
You know damn well that light-skinned, god fearing Russel Wilson isn't treated the same as other Black QBs.

From his Wikipedia page:

"Wilson's great-great-grandfather was a slave to a Confederate colonel and was freed after the American Civil War.[18] Wilson's paternal grandfather, Harrison B. Wilson Jr., is a former president of Norfolk State University who played football and basketball at Kentucky State University, and his paternal grandmother, Anna W. Wilson, was on the faculty at Jackson State University.[19] Wilson's maternal grandfather was noted painter A. B. Jackson.[20] According to genetic admixture analysis, Wilson is 62% African, 36% European, 1% West Asian, and 1% Central Asian.[21][22][23]. "

And I'm not sure what god fearing has to do with it. Lots of players pray after games. I just think he's a really good player and gets treated well because of it. I'm not saying racism isn't a problem in the NFL though.

LJ11 · Nov 16, 2017

OP, if the NFL can exploit the talents of a black athlete they will. I think this was a huge issue years ago, not as much these days. Even the old regime soured on Tyrod, the black GM wanted him out, wasn't until the new white coach (McDermott) came along and put Tyrod back into the mix. This isn't about Tyrod's skin color, it's about figuring out where to go from here because they've seen peak Tyrod.

Faust · Nov 16, 2017

The Almighty Tria said:
Himself? He isn't a bad quarterback by any means, but he really isn't performing as well as you seem to think he is. He doesn't turn the ball over, which is great, but he ain't winning you games either. He is serviceable.

While I don't agree with benching him, there are a lot of possible factors involving his benching that we might just not know.

I'm not saying he's top 3 QB but him being middle of the road (Eli Manning is the ultimate mediocre QB and I don't think anyone complains about him that he should have been benched in the past) isn't a bad thing and not turning over the ball is huge. I think you're underselling as much management and keeping the ball is important. Do you want more out of a QB? Sure, but he's not playing to a level that any other team would bench him with their record and success so far this year. They are literally a playoff team, they are currently in the playoffs.

Imtehman · Nov 16, 2017

Svadhyaya said:
Bill Romanowski tweeted this warm message to Cam after his post Super Bowl loss interview

whats the point of this?

LionPride · Nov 16, 2017

LJ11 said:
OP, if the NFL can exploit the talents of a black athlete they will. I think this was a huge issue years ago, not as much these days. Even the old regime soured on Tyrod, the black GM wanted him out, wasn't until the new white coach (McDermott) came along and put Tyrod back into the mix. This isn't about Tyrod's skin color, it's about figuring out where to go from here because they've seen peak Tyrod.

And peak Tyrod is far and away the best QB they have seen in years yet they want to push him out for an unknown commodity.

Hell you can read the article I posted in the NFL community thread if you want http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21251222/the-great-debate-buffalo-bills-quarterback-tyrod-taylor

A lot of the treatment of black QBs, is, and always has been different than their white counterparts

And again, name me a playoff team that just randomly benches their QB after one bad game, hell it took Payton 10 bad games before he was benched

CrankyJay · Nov 16, 2017

As a Bills fan, benching Tyrod was the right move, but the timing and optics of it are atrocious. He shouldn't have been benched until they were officially eliminated from the playoffs. I'm well aware of his stats and he's an average quarterback with exceptional athleticism.

LionPride · Nov 16, 2017

CrankyJay said:
As a Bills fan, benching Tyrod was the right move, but the timing and optics of it are atrocious. He shouldn't have been benched until they were officially eliminated from the playoffs. I'm well aware of his stats and he's an average quarterback with exceptional athleticism.

I think he's slightly above average, if the Bills had a suffocating defense nearing like prime Seattle LOB or 2001 Ravens, then would he still start?

captmcblack · Nov 16, 2017

Tyrod wasn't great. Like, I don't even think it was possible for him to throw a football more than 20 yards.

...but he certainly wasn't bad, and he's definitely better than literally every QB the Bills have employed since zombie Drew Bledsoe. And he's definitely better than people that started games this year and continued to get starts, whether you're a rookie (Kizer) or a journeyman backup (Glennon) or even an equally young starter getting their second/third/fourth chances (Bortles).

I don't have a problem with the Bills doing this if Peterman is actually good. I also think that some teams have given the Bills cover to be like "fuck it" and tank even while winning in this season where more than a few teams are trying to suck (the Jets, for example - they *should* be tanking, but they fucked it up by winning just like the Bills). So looking at this QB switch as a stealth tank move? Totally legit. Why not? Either Peterman is legit, they still can make the playoffs and they can do whatever they like, or he sucks and they tank along like they seemed to be doing in the offseason.

But there is a double standard for how black QBs are handled in the NFL...if they even get to still be QBs in the NFL.

Amory · Nov 16, 2017

Tyrod Taylor is fine but he's not a franchise QB. I think it's a weird move to bench him after the team has had some success this year but everyone's trying to find their long term guy. They apparently don't think he's it.

Svadhyaya · Nov 16, 2017

Imtehman said:
whats the point of this?

But Cam Newton was the #1 draft pick! The NFL can't be racist against him!

LionPride · Nov 16, 2017

Amory said:
Tyrod Taylor is fine but he's not a franchise QB. I think it's a weird move to bench him after the team has had some success this year but everyone's trying to find their long term guy. They apparently don't think he's it.

And that's fair

Most QBs who have been playing aren't though, this is a team that traded for Kelvin Benjamin, they appeared to be making a push to win and get in the playoffs with Tyrod at the helm and....here we are.

Yams · Nov 16, 2017

Tyrod can barely read the defense.

Professor Quixote · Nov 16, 2017

BlackSalad said:
No denying there is some racism within the NFL but using taylor is a bad example

This is my opinion too. The refereeing of black qbs might be an even bigger issue, imo.

Neece · Nov 16, 2017

Cat Party said:
You are deliberately misrepresenting the argument. Black QBs have to excel to a ridiculous degree in college to be top picks. And when they get a chance in the NFL, they are held to a different standard. You don't have to be overtly racist to be biased.

The existence of a long standing bias against black QBs is undeniable.

I don't think this point is true.

Jamarcus Russell
EJ Manuel
Josh Freeman
Jason Campbell

All first round picks even though none of them excelled to a ridiculous degree in college.

Black Quarterbacks and the NFL

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