"Blacks at Xbox" - Incredibly tone-deaf? (Update: Xbox Communication Manager explains)

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AndrewDean84

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,914
Fontana, California
The intention seems great, when you see who did it. But I get the knee jerk reaction though.

Maybe we all need to take a minute, gather some info before jumping on a hate wagon. Unless something is so obviously bad.
 
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Primethius

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
I'm confused as to what you are confused by? I didn't make this thread based on nothing.

It's telling you that this is a group created by black people working at Xbox. Why in the world would you leave that out of the OP?
Because that confirmation, when I checked, was not available when the thread was made?

What you posted is not a confirmation that the groups name was created by black folks. It outlines the intent and purpose of the group, but it does not confirm that the actual name, the title around which this thread is premised, was created by black folks. The confirmation came later, after I had made the thread.
 

neon_dream

Member
Dec 18, 2017
2,924
*Waits for the inevitable*
“Yellows at Sony” and “Whites at Nintendo”

Even if it sounds inoffensive to some, it still sounds antiquated.
No one refers to themselves as "yellow" because it's a slur. The only time I've seen my Asian friends use it is in a tongue-in-cheek reference to negative perception by white culture. It's in the same class of insulting terms as "redskin".

All of the color terms, including "white" and "black", come from the same racist ideology:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_terminology_for_race
 

Nitpicker_Red

Member
Nov 3, 2017
928
What you posted is not a confirmation that the groups name was created by black folks. It outlines the intent and purpose of the group, but it does not confirm that the actual name, the title around which this thread is premised, was created by black folks. The confirmation came later, after I had made the thread.
Does it not? It's written in the first person.
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/blacks-at-xbox
In 2015, we formed the Blacks at Xbox employee community as a way of meeting one another across the many buildings Team Xbox inhabits. Our shared blackness does not make us all the same, of course – we come from a variety of cities (and countries), socioeconomic backgrounds, and professional experiences – but we have a common mission: to connect with and uplift the black community within the gaming industry.
 

Sherbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
272
I'm confused as to what you are confused by? I didn't make this thread based on nothing.

Because that confirmation, when I checked, was not available when the thread was made?

What you posted is not a confirmation that the groups name was created by black folks. It outlines the intent and purpose of the group, but it does not confirm that the actual name, the title around which this thread is premised, was created by black folks. The confirmation came later, after I had made the thread.
All this information was available when you posted, as mentioned above. You did the bare minimum of research in an attempt to post a 'gotcha' thread.
 

Kinthey

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,304
Because that confirmation, when I checked, was not available when the thread was made?

What you posted is not a confirmation that the groups name was created by black folks. It outlines the intent and purpose of the group, but it does not confirm that the actual name, the title around which this thread is premised, was created by black folks. The confirmation came later, after I had made the thread.
It's hardly a stretch to imagine that a group created by black people was also named by them. In fact the opposite seems far less likely. Leaving information like this out of the OP just makes no sense
 
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Primethius

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
No, not really. It might hint towards it, but the issue is the title and that doesn't confirm that black folks came up with the title as opposed to say, it was a naming scheme at the company that was then applied to Xbox.

All this information was available when you posted, as mentioned above. You did the bare minimum of research in an attempt to post a 'gotcha' thread.
Man, what the fuck ever. I did my due diligence, I talked to black folks, I posted the thread on behalf of other folks.

Don't accuse me of shit just cause you don't agree with others takes on the situation.
 
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Primethius

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
It's hardly a stretch to imagine that a group created by black people was also named by them. In fact the opposite seems far less likely. Leaving information like this out of the OP just makes no sense
Two things:

One: not if the name is following a company naming convention, so, without a confirmation, I don't see how I can assume that.

Two: folks I talked to, even assuming that, still took issue with it, so I thought the discussion was worth having. A concrete confirmation, to my knowledge, came later.

But you know what? If you think my OP is trash. Fine. Report it. I'm not going to litigate how much you perceive I didn't do and detract from the topic.
 

Kinthey

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,304
Two things:

One: not if the name is following a company naming convention, so, without a confirmation, I don't see how I can assume that.

Two: folks I talked to, even assuming that, still took issue with it, so I thought the discussion was worth having. A concrete confirmation, to my knowledge, came later.

But you know what? If you think my OP is trash. Fine. Report it. I'm not going to litigate how much you perceive I didn't do and detract from the topic.
It's not really about perceiving when your OP is indistinguishable from any hottake. When you make a thread the burden is on you to provide information, especially when it's about a sensitive topic. Don't be surprised that people accuse you of not doing any research when you provide zero of it in the OP.
 

Garrett 2U

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,693
The title feels incredibly click bait.

“Blacks at Xbox! Incredibly time-deaf? Find out inside!”

Pretty strange thread.
 
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Primethius

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
It's not really about perceiving when your OP is indistinguishable from any hottake. When you make a thread the burden is on you to provide information, especially when it's about a sensitive topic. Don't be surprised that people accuse you of not doing any research when you provide zero of it in the OP.
I have told you, time and time again, that when the thread was made and when confirmations came, are two different time periods.

What you posted isn't a confirmation. So if you want to accuse me based on you presuming something, feel free.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,966
Seattle
No, not really. It might hint towards it, but the issue is the title and that doesn't confirm that black folks came up with the title as opposed to say, it was a naming scheme at the company that was then applied to Xbox.
Have you worked in a company with internal community organizations? The groups are always named by the ones who create the group. Somewhat to foster community and ownership of the community but also because no one has a full time job thats titling internal organizations.
 

faceless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,936
what kind of privilege does it take to leave out information because it doesn't 'confirm' that Black people specifically created it.

assuming white creation by default lmao
 

Kinthey

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,304
I have told you, time and time again, that when the thread was made and when confirmations came, are two different time periods.

What you posted isn't a confirmation. So if you want to accuse me based on you presuming something, feel free.
So that it's a group created and run by black people was just irrelevant to you? It didn't in any form vastly increase the likelihood that they're self named? What about that there's a group called "Blacks in Gaming" that's been going for 15 years? I think it's funny that a tweet counts more as a confirmation to you than looking at the group and its history .

Also if my forum time is accurate then that tweet by the community manager was made before you even started the thread.
 
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Primethius

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
Have you worked in a company with internal community organizations? The groups are always named by the ones who create the group. Somewhat to foster community and ownership of the community but also because no one has a full time job thats titling internal organizations.
Yes, I have. A lot of the groups I've come across are already titled, some follow naming conventions and of course, some are newly named.

So that it's a group created and run by black people was just irrelevant to you? It didn't in any form vastly increase the likelihood that they're self named? What about that there's a group called "Blacks in Gaming" that's been going for 15 years? I think it's funny that a tweet counts more as a confirmation to you than looking at the group and its history .

Also if my forum time is accurate then that tweet by the community manager was made before you even started the thread.
As I've already said, I made the thread based on information I had. So, it's very possible I might have missed a tweet on another account, but as I've already said, a mod added explanatory tweets very quickly to the OP.

I'm moving on from this as it's clear nothing I say will please you. I literally discussed this with black folks who had issues with this and I made the thread because I was asked to, and after looking into it, made it based on what we had found at the time.

what kind of privilege does it take to leave out information because it doesn't 'confirm' that Black people specifically created it.

assuming white creation by default lmao
Privilege?
 

CG Amor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,354
Wait, people were actually coming in here trying to say that this was offensive or something?
Apparently the sentiment in this thread is white people keep coming in here to tell black people what to be offended by. Haven't seen it myself, but i haven't read through everything. There at least one person every time i read through a bit of the thread that brings up whites pretending to be mad talking on behalf of black people, but all i've read in this thread is black people arguing what to call themselves. There was a whole discussion around whether African american should be generally used for all black people. Maybe there is more offended people unaware of the context outside of the black community on twitter which contributes to that thought.
 

Ramjag

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,594
Yes, I have. A lot of the groups I've come across are already titled, some follow naming conventions and of course, some are newly named.



As I've already said, I made the thread based on information I had. So, it's very possible I might have missed a tweet on another account, but as I've already said, a mod added explanatory tweets very quickly to the OP.

I'm moving on from this as it's clear nothing I say will please you. I literally discussed this with black folks who had issues with this and I made the thread because I was asked to, and after looking into it, made it based on what we had found at the time.



Privilege?
You didn’t really clarify, but are you black? This “I discussed it with black folks” stuff sounds off the more you repeat it. You made the thread, you’ve gotta own it. Let’s be real, that line wouldn’t really fly in any serious discussion.

Not saying you can’t have an opinion, your heart is in the right place, just maybe stop providing it through the lens of “some black folks told me” as if that means anything.
 
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Primethius

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
You didn’t really clarify, but are you black? This “I discussed it with black folks” stuff sounds off the more you repeat it. You made the thread, you’ve gotta own it. Let’s be real, it wouldn’t really fly in any serious discussion.

Not saying you can’t have an opinion, just maybe stop providing it through the lens of “some black folks told me” as if that means anything.
Okay, but like, that's not what I'm saying, right? I'm not black. I'm brown. The reason I bring that up is not a deflection, nor is it something I brought up just willy nilly, I've only brought it up as a pushback to this notion that I made this thread just by looking at the tweet and deciding to go ahead with it. So, I'm not disvowing ownership of the thread, but only pointing it out as means of explanation. The tweet was brought to my attention in a discussion with folks, black folks included, who took issue with the naming. I was asked to make the thread, and so I did. That's it. I'm not hiding behind that, I'm not disvowing ownership of the thread, merely pushing back on this notion that I was just one brown dude who decided to make the thread just because.
 

Shpeshal Ed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,465
Melbourne, Australia
No, not really. It might hint towards it, but the issue is the title and that doesn't confirm that black folks came up with the title as opposed to say, it was a naming scheme at the company that was then applied to Xbox.



Man, what the fuck ever. I did my due diligence, I talked to black folks, I posted the thread on behalf of other folks.

Don't accuse me of shit just cause you don't agree with others takes on the situation.
You did your due dilligence but conveniently forgot that tonnes of companies have "blacks @" groups?

ok buddy.
 
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Primethius

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
You did your due dilligence but conveniently forgot that tonnes of companies have "blacks @" groups?

ok buddy.
If you read what people's issues with the naming might be on one side, largely the negative connotation many feel is associated how the term is used, you'd realize that the existence of other similar names doesn't somehow excuse one or the other for those folks.
 

Bits N Pieces

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,070
Scotland
Two things:

One: not if the name is following a company naming convention, so, without a confirmation, I don't see how I can assume that.

Two: folks I talked to, even assuming that, still took issue with it, so I thought the discussion was worth having. A concrete confirmation, to my knowledge, came later.

But you know what? If you think my OP is trash. Fine. Report it. I'm not going to litigate how much you perceive I didn't do and detract from the topic.
You keep using the word discussion but your original OP did zero to stimulate any discussion, you framed it the way you wanted to and now seem to be getting agitated when people are pulling you up for it.
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,576
Just because I find the name of the group questionably and poorly phrased doesn't mean I'm outraged or offended.

My reaction was laughter followed by, "who thought this was a good idea", followed by "they should rephrase that".

And now I'm gonna go on with my life.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,736
Okay, but like, that's not what I'm saying, right? I'm not black. I'm brown. The reason I bring that up is not a deflection, nor is it something I brought up just willy nilly, I've only brought it up as a pushback to this notion that I made this thread just by looking at the tweet and deciding to go ahead with it. So, I'm not disvowing ownership of the thread, but only pointing it out as means of explanation. The tweet was brought to my attention in a discussion with folks, black folks included, who took issue with the naming. I was asked to make the thread, and so I did. That's it. I'm not hiding behind that, I'm not disvowing ownership of the thread, merely pushing back on this notion that I was just one brown dude who decided to make the thread just because.
Dude just take the L, you made the thread without so much as providing a link to the group in question's web page. You provided no context for who this group is, what their role is, nothing, and then are crying foul at people calling you out over it.
 

jrDev

Member
Mar 2, 2018
1,231
This thread is literally an example of what Trump would use to scream “Fake News” because you guys take things WAY out of context and get worked up over something positive. Just stop!
 
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Primethius

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
You keep using the word discussion but your original OP did zero to stimulate any discussion, you framed it the way you wanted to and now seem to be getting agitated when people are pulling you up for it.
I framed it the way I saw and had discussed it with others up until that point, yes.

Dude just take the L, you made the thread without so much as providing a link to the group in question's web page. You provided no context for who this group is, what their role is, nothing, and then are crying foul at people calling you out over it.
Take the L? For what? I'm addressing comments from people who are acting like I made this thread in bad faith without consulting anyone.

No, I'm not gonna sit here and be dismissed as some white dude looking to get offended on black folks behalf.
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,211
This thread to me is peak ResetEra. No one seems to care about context, and are far too quick to judge and get a hot take out than have a nuanced discussion about a potential issue (which in this case was non existent).

I'm disappointed to say the least.
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,818
Just because I find the name of the group questionably and poorly phrased doesn't mean I'm outraged or offended.

My reaction was laughter followed by, "who thought this was a good idea", followed by "they should rephrase that".

And now I'm gonna go on with my life.
That was exactly my reaction.
 

Syriel

Member
Dec 13, 2017
4,922
Apparently the sentiment in this thread is white people keep coming in here to tell black people what to be offended by. Haven't seen it myself, but i haven't read through everything. There at least one person every time i read through a bit of the thread that brings up whites pretending to be mad talking on behalf of black people, but all i've read in this thread is black people arguing what to call themselves. There was a whole discussion around whether African american should be generally used for all black people. Maybe there is more offended people unaware of the context outside of the black community on twitter which contributes to that thought.
The beginning of the thread is basically a whole bunch of folks criticizing black employees for daring to have an employee resource group at Xbox.

Reading through from the start, the thread really does come off as judgmental, for all the wrong reasons. This isn't in support of the black employees who created the group. It's criticizing them for how they chose to self-identify.

If you read what people's issues with the naming might be on one side, largely the negative connotation many feel is associated how the term is used, you'd realize that the existence of other similar names doesn't somehow excuse one or the other for those folks.
ERGs are common at any large company. They are run by, and named by, the employees that are members in them. There's no reason to discount the information posted by the group itself on the webpage.
 

VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,327
This thread to me is peak ResetEra. No one seems to care about context, and are far too quick to judge and get a hot take out than have a nuanced discussion about a potential issue (which in this case was non existent).

I'm disappointed to say the least.
Blame the OPs click bait title and pertinent lack of research
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,736
I framed it the way I saw and had discussed it with others up until that point, yes.



Take the L? For what? I'm addressing comments from people who are acting like I made this thread in bad faith without consulting anyone.

No, I'm not gonna sit here and be dismissed as some white dude looking to get offended on black folks behalf.
I never said you were a white dude, I know you aren't. You made this thread without a shred of any of the vital context that was necessary to actually understand the situation, which other posters had to then provide, taking multiple pages worth of reactionary hot-takes from people misled by your bare-bones OP. Can you at least admit that you didn't provide the appropriate context for this discussion?
 

Unidentified

Member
Nov 11, 2017
22
You have to have the humility to understand that you are an advocate not a Champion... I offer my opinion all day every day but I know my opinion is not the only one nor does it have the most ethos. You gotta respect that the group in the mix has a perspective that you could never truly understand
I might be misunderstanding your post, but it seems that is also basically what I am saying.

My perspective is just my perspective - I was pointing out that a lot of other people were shutting down other perspectives.

Of course, I find the terminology here "awkward" to say the least. I am a black person, specifically African, but grew up in the US - so coming from mostly that perspective and how I've seen that term used here, who works in the gaming industry who definitely sees a major issue with the skewed demographics of the industry (I've encountered very few other black people while working at a gaming company with over 800+ employees - that is over the span of working here for 5+ years), so while I think what they're doing is great - not liking the name of the group is a completely separate (albeit - a much less important one). Though the same issue I have here applies to a broader topic - one minority thinking that because they are a minority they can speak for everyone.

Because we black folks have had a lot of our culture and heritage systematically taken and destroyed over the course of centuries and we're not going to take kindly to non-blacks trying to be arbiters of even our very identity.

Colonizers. Colonizers everywhere.
I can see that, and I think in a lot of cases, you have to be part of the group to have an informed opinion. You could argue whether this topic is one as its about the name of an outward facing group being tweeted about.
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,211
Blame the OPs click bait title and pertinent lack of research
Yeah, I don't buy the claims that meaningful research was done otherwise OP would have known this was made by black people.

Even then, there was no real context to anything in the OP other than the tweet and OP's "I had to double take" comment. At least present the findings of the supposed research you did.

Just hold the L. Regardless of who you spoke to beforehand, this thread was framed poorly and the results are evident in the initial pages worth of comments.
 

SharkJohnson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
863
I’ve never seen more people here get tougher and try to turn absolutely nothing into something.

It blows my mind the number of ‘progressive’ non-black folk here and on Twitter trying to dictate how black people should think, feel, and what to name their groups. Many of you are EXACTLY what right-leaning folk paint y’all as.

Doubly crazy that people lack English skills and cannot use critical thinking to realize that it isn’t “Our blacks at Xbox” but “our Black at Xbox.” The US needs better school systems.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,129
I’ve never seen more people here get tougher and try to turn absolutely nothing into something.

It blows my mind the number of ‘progressive’ non-black folk here and on Twitter trying to dictate how black people should think, feel, and what to name their groups. Many of you are EXACTLY what right-leaning folk paint y’all as.

Doubly crazy that people lack English skills and cannot use critical thinking to realize that it isn’t “Our blacks at Xbox” but “our Black at Xbox.” The US needs better school systems.
This is ERA in a nutshell, really. It's unfortunate sometimes and keeps me essentially out of political commentary threads despite leaning largely left. It's sometimes so bad it's borderline comical.
 
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Primethius

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
I never said you were a white dude, I know you aren't. You made this thread without a shred of any of the vital context that was necessary to actually understand the situation, which other posters had to then provide, taking multiple pages worth of reactionary hot-takes from people misled by your bare-bones OP. Can you at least admit that you didn't provide the appropriate context for this discussion?
I provided the context that I had at the time that I thought was relevant, and the ones that came out around or after (or I missed, which again, I freely admit I might have) was added fairly quickly by mods. The OP hasn't been context less for a while. On top of that, note how I didn't make judgment calls on MS, Xbox or even the group in the OP. I titled tone-deaf with a question mark followed by my reaction to the name/tweet precisely because thats the extent of me pointing this out, like a "Oh they should probably rephrase that," sort of reaction. Something you'll see was also shared by many in the Twitter replies and elsewhere.

But I will take the blame. Because it was on me and I overestimated how much context the tweet was providing (I thought it was self explanatory that the groups title is "Blacks at Xbox" and it featured black folks at Xbox, and the OP was concerned largely with phrasing/negative connotation). That's on me. I'll own up to it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,017
What even discussion is there to be had either way....like some black people don't like the useage of the word "nigga" and even that is a stupid discussion to have. If someone black told me they didn't like the word then tough shit. No one is gonna change anyones mind, 99% of black people know the history of these terms and no matter what anyone says we took them back. Hell I'm gay and I use the word "fag" all the time, and have heard many other LGBT people use it too.
 

Ramjag

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,594
This is ERA in a nutshell, really. It's unfortunate sometimes and keeps me essentially out of political commentary threads despite leaning largely left. It's sometimes so bad it's borderline comical.
What’s crazy is when the bulk of the people in the thread think that the OP was a bit much and are actively criticizing him, yet we still gotta get all these “era is too much” comments anyhow. It doesn’t matter what people are saying, some of you are going to find a way to complain about the forum it seems.
 

Wonderment

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,714
Official Staff Communication
The situation and name of this group have been publicly addressed. Since the thread has steered into commentary about other things, this thread will be closed.
 
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