Blizzard’s Actionless Non-Apology Is Complete Bullshit

[Amiablepercy]

If his hands are tied(doubt) he should say so. Just saying something like "You know if it were up to me I'd undo those bans today but it's not within my control". That would at least show that he would like fix it. Instead he says sorry on stage then goes on to give an interview were he acts like they did nothing wrong and flat out refuses to undo the bans. He even gives his very weak reasons as to why.

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Do you understand how hire NDAs operate? Again I feel like I'm dealing with someone who is approaching something JUST philosophically and without any knowledge of how things work in a company as big as ACt-blizz. Your values I completely agree with dude, you have great personal integrity, but the way you are lensing the whole thing is very off to me.

 

[Wink784]

They are actually getting away with robbing three people of their livelihood for 6 months (let's be real, the casters are not getting back to Blizzease anyway) over an arbitrary rule application that the fucking president of the fucking company is literally BREAKING WHILE STATING IT. And the sheep give him applause for a statement that is exactly the same as the one they made before, with a little joke about the protests thrown in to keep the mood light? I just can't... Blizzard is deader than dead to me.

 

[i like big butts]

Do you understand how hire NDAs operate? Again I feel like I'm dealing with someone who is approaching something JUST philosophically and without any knowledge of how things work in a company as big as ACt-blizz. Your values I completely agree with dude, you have great personal integrity, but the way you are lensing the whole thing is very off to me.

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None of this really changes the fact that Blizzard still didn't give a proper apology, which was sort of the thing you were suggesting Brack did by being "emotional".

Edit: Also, again. Understanding the mechanisms of capitalism and expecting more from people aren't mutually exclusive. Shit like NDAs and corporate structures don't really mean anything to me if my people were in the middle of a human rights struggle or victims of what is essentially a genocide.

You might be donating to Hong Kong charity groups but you're also still clearly a Blizzard fan from your most recent posts. Brack's apology was entirely for the Blizzard fan who might have some existing guilt about consuming their future products, it wasn't for Hong Kong players or the three people banned for participating in the livestream.

 

[Sheldon]

We've seen it with the NBA players, we're seeing it with Blizzard. People only take a stand - taking pot shots at Trump, supporting LGBTI rights after its become popular - if it doesn't cost them anything or brings in good PR. Even if they're already multi-millionaires who are realistically set for life.

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As the saying goes "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his sixth yacht depends upon his not understanding it."

 

[-Devious-]

Treating that amount of money as negligible is a such a BS response. Blizzard is a sub group under the wing of a giant corporation. What happened to Blitz was awful no doubt but Blizzard just apologized or Brack did as representative and seemed to me emotionally shook. It made not have been the apology you wanted or delivered in the way you wanted but it was sincerely addressed by the public face and they didn't even have to do that.

What do people like you want him to do beyond that? Quit in protest? Dude has a career and life obligations as much as you and I. Things are becoming so uncomfortably fascistic re: this issue and the screaming free Hong Kong during a panel at a conference they didn't have to go to out of principal is the most group/think signaling I can think of. People need to grow the fuck up and constructively help instead of just bitching online or having weird ass protests (while dressed in Blizzard paraphernalia. hilarious) about a system that is not going to change anytime soon unless our administration and current American value priorities change.

I donated to Hong Kong Unison last week after vetting the org to the best of my ability. What have you done besides talk? I hope something. Call me a bootlicker if you want I just prefer to engage as a singular mind not part of some social issue trend involving a lot of fairly disingenuous people.

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Blizzard was incredibly vague in their apology. They didn't even mention what they were apologizing for and didn't actually state what they will do to rectify it or even if what they did was wrong. The NBA has set a precedent when they released a statement saying,

Silver said "the NBA will not put itself in a position of regulating what players, employees and team owners say or will not say on these issues."

"The long-held values of the NBA are to support freedom of expression, certainly by members of the NBA community," Silver told reporters after issuing the statement, adding that Morey enjoys that right as one of their employees.

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For Blizzard not to acknowledge the concerns that people have regarding the Chinese government dictating what these companies say is what was wrong with their apology. They apologized to no one and to make matters worse they made sure not to say anything that would offend the Chinese government.

Today, United States Senators Ron Wyden and Marco Rubio signed a bi-partisan letter with support from Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Mike Gallagher, and Tom Malinowski addressed to Bobby Kotick, CEO of Activision Blizzard, over the recent suspension of professional Hearthstone player Chung "Blitzchung" Ng Wai.

"We write to express our deep concern about Activision Blizzard's decision to make player Ng Wai Chung forfeit prize money and ban him from participating in tournaments for a year after he voiced support for pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong," the letter reads. "This decision is particularly concerning in light of the Chinese government's growing appetite for pressuring American businesses to help stifle free speech."

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Also, people coming together online and talking about their disapproval about this current situation isn't "bitching online or having weird ass protests" its showing solidarity. It's about creating a conversation and elevating said conversation so that it gains traction among the people and puts a spotlight on said problem.

 

[Amiablepercy]

None of this really changes the fact that Blizzard still didn't give a proper apology, which was sort of the thing you were suggesting Brack did by being "emotional".

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Blizzard was incredibly vague in their apology. They didn't even mention what they were apologizing for and didn't actually state what they will do to rectify it or even if what they did was wrong. The NBA has set a precedent when they released a staement saying,


For Blizzard not to acknowledge the concerns that people have regarding the Chinese government dictating what these companies say is what was wrong with their apology. They apologized to no one and to make matters worse they made sure not to say anything that would offend the Chinese government.



Also, people coming together online and talking about their disapproval about this current situation isn't "bitching online or having weird ass protests" its showing solidarity. It's about creating a conversation and elevating said conversation so that it gains traction among the people and puts a spotlight on said problem.

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You protest in costume garb of the company you are protesting makes no sense to me. No conversation is created by screaming out like an infant during a panel isn't creating conversation it is attention seeking IMO.

I don't as personal policy believe that one should dictate the parameters of an apology and trying to do so is futile. As I said I've donated to the cause, I disagree with what happened to Blitz, but fundamentally disagree with how these gamers are executing their objections. It is what it is and you and anyone else is entitled to an opinion. The zerging of people who have a different opinion or prefer to be private with their objections is gross to me and that's what I've been seeing this past week. Anyway I'll leave it at that. Sorry to have a differing take.

 

[-Devious-]

You protest in costume garb of the company you are protesting makes no sense to me. No conversation is created by screaming out like an infant during a panel isn't creating conversation it is attention seeking IMO.

I don't as personal policy believe that one should dictate the parameters of an apology and trying to do so is futile. As I said I've donated to the cause, I disagree with what happened to Blitz, but fundamentally disagree with how these gamers are executing their objections. It is what it is and you and anyone else is entitled to an opinion. The zerging of people who have a different opinion or prefer to be private with their objections is gross to me and that's what I've been seeing this past week. Anyway I'll leave it at that. Sorry to have a differing take.

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I think we need a global boycott not that the other companies treat their workers any better they probably don't but if we can't find a way to point out concretely to what is happening then we will all continue to wear exploitation on our bodies without even being conscious of it. I mean in a sense we can't avoid wearing it because it is the clothes we wear but at least we can be conscious of it at least we can in some way participate in efforts to reveal what is going on and hopefully, transform it.

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[i like big butts]

You protest in costume garb of the company you are protesting makes no sense to me. No conversation is created by screaming out like an infant during a panel isn't creating conversation it is attention seeking IMO.

I don't as personal policy believe that one should dictate the parameters of an apology and trying to do so is futile. As I said I've donated to the cause, I disagree with what happened to Blitz, but fundamentally disagree with how these gamers are executing their objections. It is what it is and you and anyone else is entitled to an opinion. The zerging of people who have a different opinion or prefer to be private with their objections is gross to me and that's what I've been seeing this past week. Anyway I'll leave it at that. Sorry to have a differing take.

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I'm not even talking about protests during panels what are you even talking about. I've actually made zero mention of protesters or those people.

I'm merely suggesting that your belief that Brack actually made an sincere apology towards Hong Kong and the three people banned during the livestream to be extremely poorly founded because you're looking for anything to absolve yourself of the guilt of consuming future Blizzard products.

Also "dictating the parameters of an apology"? The fundamental aspects of an apology consists of the following no matter where you look:

that the person apologizing was, in some way, responsible for the harmful actions taken;
that the person apologizing is aware of harms that resulted from those actions; and
that the person apologizing intends to behave differently in the future.

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That's straight out of Wikipedia. Those are also the basis of an apology no matter what source you look at. These are the fundamental aspects of what makes an apology an apology. You're the one here trying to dictate the parameters of an apology by trying to redefine what makes a proper apology. I hope you brought the same energy towards all the vague apologies we got during the #metoo movement.

Like I've said, you've donated to the cause. You're trying as hard as possible to try and justify supporting Hong Kong as well as absolving yourself of any guilt of consuming Blizzard products.

 

[X-Peaceman-X]

This whole thing is just ridiculous. Find a scapecoat to catch all the flak so everyone feels better about it while 187 other companies do the same shit and in some cases even worse, but they do it silently so its ok. Cool stay classy earth.

 

[Deleted member 10747]

The irony of overwatch, and hero's protecting people from opression and danger, and then Blizzard is just embarassing beyond belief.

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It really fucking is. Honestly it feels more like they are mocking people trying to get freedom with they way Blizzard has been acting.

 

[MrBob]

It really fucking is. Honestly it feels more like they are mocking people trying to get freedom with they way Blizzard has been acting.

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Seriously. My jaw dropped at the overwatch 2 trailer when it was trying to promote everything blizzard has not been doing.

 

[SugarNoodles]

The irony of overwatch, and hero's protecting people from opression and danger, and then Blizzard is just embarassing beyond belief.

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This is just escapism in a nutshell. Most people have no capability of reconciling the themes of the media they consume with the reality of their own lives. Harry Potter is a story about fascism rising to power while the masses ignore the warnings and condemn the heroes but I guarantee you 90% of the fans are the first person to wag their fingers are protesters when they have the opportunity.

 

[Deleted member 10747]

Seriously. My jaw dropped at the overwatch 2 trailer when it was trying to promote everything blizzard has not been doing.

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It was a real wtf moment for me and honestly the whole thing started to piss me off even more.

 

[Deleted member 13560]

Wow... not one person in the audience stood against these fools. It was sickening to hear all those people clapping like the mindless drones that they are.

 

[Wumbo64]

This whole situation is a giant mess.

Folks here in America and on the ground in Hong Kong just want to preserve democracy. I am sure there are plenty of Blizzard employees, even leadership that feel the same. However, when you are a multinational corporation that does business in dozens of countries that span the geopolitical divide, having a fixed ideology is borderline impossible. I mean, unless you are willing to close yourself off from markets in socially volatile nations.

After last year's Diablo Immortal fiasco and laying off so many employees, I doubt Blizzard (or by extension Activision) executives wanted to jeopardize their reputation and fiances further. Separated from empathy, which you unfortunately are subject to when you employ thousands of folks globally, this is a lose-lose situation.

If I were an executive at Blizzard when all this went down, I would probably have to step down. I support the people in Hong Kong and around the world who want democracy and their human rights respected, but I don't know that I could cope with being a company liability for it. I feel the cause is noble, but the pursuit could cost people their livelihoods and countless millions of dollars.

It's why I generally prefer political discourse about such confrontational topics to be left out of non-government arenas, particularly those shared by a global audience. Though I do understand that as we become more globally linked through the internet and digital distribution of media, the clashing will only grow.

I don't think companies can sustain the act of hiding behind scripted apologies like this either.

 

[AcidCat]

Yes, it is a corporation's job to ... espouse democracy over the world. Right. Might as well try to milk cats for your breakfast cereal.

 

[TDLink]

Yes, it is a corporation's job to ... espouse democracy over the world. Right. Might as well try to milk cats for your breakfast cereal.

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They don't have to espouse democracy or advocate for a free Hong Kong, or any of that. They didn't have to do anything. They problem is they did do something: ban someone for using his platform as a winner to speak about a cause he cared about, and two other people who happened to be on stream at the same time as him who didn't say anything.

Blizzard banning these 3 individuals is the problem. They could have done nothing and it would have been alright. Now that they DID do something, the only way to make it right is to undo those ridiculous bans. The fact that the can't and heavily dance around exactly why they banned them in the first place makes it blatantly transparent they are doing the Chinese government's bidding. That is the problem and why they're deserving of everything people want to say about them.

 

[Deleted member 10747]

Folks here in America

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U do know It's not just America right? Also this isn't about Democracy this is about freedom and oppression and while usually not separated from freedom this is a whole other discussion. It's the choice of the Hong Kong people what they want. (edit) The rest of your text I disagree. Apparently I misread/glanced over your initial text.

Yes, it is a corporation's job to ... espouse democracy over the world. Right. Might as well try to milk cats for your breakfast cereal.

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It's not there job but then again it also isn't there job to defend China's honor and be against freedom and support oppression, so yeah what do we know what there job is supp........apparently its to espouse China's values.

 

[-Devious-]

This whole situation is a giant mess.

Folks here in America and on the ground in Hong Kong just want to preserve democracy. I am sure there are plenty of Blizzard employees, even leadership that feel the same. However, when you are a multinational corporation that does business in dozens of countries that span the geopolitical divide, having a fixed ideology is borderline impossible. I mean, unless you are willing to close yourself off from markets in socially volatile nations.

After last year's Diablo Immortal fiasco and laying off so many employees, I doubt Blizzard (or by extension Activision) executives wanted to jeopardize their reputation and fiances further. Separated from empathy, which you unfortunately are subject to when you employ thousands of folks globally, this is a lose-lose situation.

If I were an executive at Blizzard when all this went down, I would probably have to step down. I support the people in Hong Kong and around the world who want democracy and their human rights respected, but I don't know that I could cope with being a company liability for it. I feel the cause is noble, but the pursuit could cost people their livelihoods and countless millions of dollars.

It's why I generally prefer political discourse about such confrontational topics to be left out of non-government arenas, particularly those shared by a global audience. Though I do understand that as we become more globally linked through the internet and digital distribution of media, the clashing will only grow.

I don't think companies can sustain the act of hiding behind scripted apologies like this either.

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Here I changed some words here and there to show how out of touch this sounds...

This whole situation is a giant mess.

Folks here in America and on the ground in Germany just want to preserve democracy. I am sure there are plenty of Ford Motor Company employees, even leadership that feel the same. However, when you are a multinational corporation that does business in dozens of countries that span the geopolitical divide, having a fixed ideology is borderline impossible. I mean, unless you are willing to close yourself off from markets in socially volatile nations.

After last year's ceremony in which Henry Ford accepted the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, the Nazi regime's highest honor for foreigners, I doubt Ford Motor Company executives wanted to jeopardize their reputation and finances further. Separated from empathy, which you, unfortunately, are subject to when you employ thousands of folks globally, this is a lose-lose situation.

If I were an executive at Ford Motor Company when all this went down, I would probably have to step down. I support the Jewish people and people who are categorized as minorities around the world who want democracy and their human rights respected, but I don't know that I could cope with being a company liability for it. I feel the cause is noble, but the pursuit could cost people their livelihoods and countless millions of dollars.

It's why I generally prefer political discourse about such confrontational topics to be left out of non-government arenas, particularly those shared by a global audience. Though I do understand that as we become more globally linked through the radio and distribution of media, the clashing will only grow.

I don't think companies can sustain the act of hiding behind scripted apologies like this either.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Yes, it is a corporation's job to ... espouse democracy over the world. Right. Might as well try to milk cats for your breakfast cereal.

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I'm not sure why variations on this shit keep popping up. Blizzard already made a political action by shutting down a protester in the interest of preserving and perpetuating the authority and government of an entirely different country. So why shouldn't we as consumers expect and want them to do the opposite when they're in this situation for performing a political act? And before you say "a corporation's job is to make money"; making money doesn't have to rely on catering to a foreign government that performs abuses of human and civil rights.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

It's kind of telling that you can see the similarities when Jim shows the images of Todd Howard at E3 this year briefly, and how similar they look to this.

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when is that? I just listened to the video, didn't watch it

 

[Wumbo64]

U do know It's not just America right? Also this isn't about Democracy this is about freedom and oppression and while usually not separated from freedom this is a whole other discussion. It's the choice of the Hong Kong people what they want. (edit) The rest of your text I disagree. Apparently I misread/glanced over your initial text.


It's not there job but then again it also isn't there job to defend China's honor and be against freedom and support oppression, so yeah what do we know what there job is supp........apparently its to espouse China's values.

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Of course it isn't just America, but a lot of Hong Kong residents in the weeds of what is going on are appealing to America for assistance. I am also an American so of course I have a bias towards that line of thinking. For the past few hundred years, we have been a beacon of democracy. And in regards to the semantics of what governance you adopt, I just like to think Democracy is the only real means of cementing basic freedoms, as it hinges on individuals expressing themselves.

 

[Wumbo64]

Here I changed some words here and there to show how out of touch this sounds...

This whole situation is a giant mess.

Folks here in America and on the ground in Germany just want to preserve democracy. I am sure there are plenty of Ford Motor Company employees, even leadership that feel the same. However, when you are a multinational corporation that does business in dozens of countries that span the geopolitical divide, having a fixed ideology is borderline impossible. I mean, unless you are willing to close yourself off from markets in socially volatile nations.

After last year's ceremony in which Henry Ford accepted the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, the Nazi regime's highest honor for foreigners, I doubt Ford Motor Company executives wanted to jeopardize their reputation and finances further. Separated from empathy, which you, unfortunately, are subject to when you employ thousands of folks globally, this is a lose-lose situation.

If I were an executive at Ford Motor Company when all this went down, I would probably have to step down. I support the Jewish people and people who are categorized as minorities around the world who want democracy and their human rights respected, but I don't know that I could cope with being a company liability for it. I feel the cause is noble, but the pursuit could cost people their livelihoods and countless millions of dollars.

It's why I generally prefer political discourse about such confrontational topics to be left out of non-government arenas, particularly those shared by a global audience. Though I do understand that as we become more globally linked through the radio and distribution of media, the clashing will only grow.

I don't think companies can sustain the act of hiding behind scripted apologies like this either.

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Listen, I personally don't care about Blizzards pocketbook very much. However, I don't think it is hard to project how damage to their finances could lead to people losing their livelihoods. I am in the midst of cuts at work that have a unilateral effect on all employees, several have quit or had to make RAPID adjustments to feed themselves and their families. It's not good.

Obviously neither is dismantling human rights and oppressing your citizenry. It's why I couldn't make the choice. I don't think any lone entity even should. Decisions related to matters like these have a huge reverberations on the entire web of interconnected peoples caught in them.

Also, thanks for comparing having a bit of empathy for folks managing an horde of employees at an entertainment company to being a known antisemitic thug who helped literally arm a genocidal imperialist war machine. There are no degrees of critical context separating these two situations at all.

 

[Deleted member 10747]

Of course it isn't just America, but a lot of Hong Kong residents in the weeds of what is going on are appealing to America for assistance. I am also an American so of course I have a bias towards that line of thinking. For the past few hundred years, we have been a beacon of democracy. And in regards to the semantics of what governance you adopt, I just like to think Democracy is the only real means of cementing basic freedoms, as it hinges on individuals expressing themselves.

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I don't know were to start and I'm not going to because I want to keep Hong Kong as the center piece. Just know that I highly disagree with almost everything you said.

I was so surprised by your text that i forgot the most important thing.

Fuck China, Fuck Blizzard

Free Hong Kong.

 

[-Devious-]

Also, thanks for comparing having a bit of empathy for folks managing an horde of employees at an entertainment company to being a known antisemitic thug who helped literally arm a genocidal imperialist war machine. There are no degrees of critical context separating these two situations at all.

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What I was focusing on was on the absurdity that It's not profitable/possible to cut off an oppressive government since it will hurt the bottom line.

However, when you are a multinational corporation that does business in dozens of countries that span the geopolitical divide, having a fixed ideology is borderline impossible. I mean, unless you are willing to close yourself off from markets in socially volatile nations.

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This was the focal point of the bipartisan letter addressed to Activision CEO Bobby Kotick, urging the company to reverse its decision to ban Blitzchung. The letter was co-signed by Congress members Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D, NY), Mike Gallagher (R, WI) and Tom Malinowski (D, NJ).

"Blizzard shows it is willing to humiliate itself to please the Chinese Communist Party," Wyden said. "No American company should censor calls for freedom to make a quick buck."

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"Your company claims to stand by "one's right to express individual thoughts and opinions," yet many of your own employees believe that Activision Blizzard's decision to punish Mr. Chung runs counter to those values. Because your company is such a pillar of the gaming industry, your disappointing decision could have a chilling effect on gamers who seek to use their platform to promote human rights and basic freedoms. Indeed, many gamers around the world have taken notice of your company's actions, understandably calling for boycotts of Activision Blizzard gaming sites.

"As China amplifies its campaign of intimidation, you and your company must decide whether to look beyond the bottom line and promote American values–like freedom of speech and thought–or to give in to Beijing's demands in order to preserve market access. We urge you in the strongest terms to reconsider your decision with respect to Mr. Chung. You have the opportunity to reverse course. We urge you to take it."

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[Wumbo64]

I don't know were to start and I'm not going to because I want to keep Hong Kong as the center piece. Just know that I highly disagree with almost everything you said.

I was so surprised by your text that i forgot the most important thing.

Fuck China, Fuck Blizzard

Free Hong Kong.

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It was never my intent to cause ire or insult anyone. I just wanted to contribute to a conversation with my honest opinion. I am glad you feel moved enough to take a stand without pause. I simply couldn't do that. The longer my life goes on, the more I learn situations involving governing people (be it in a proper society or business organization) rarely end well. In this instance, I wouldn't be comfortable supporting one at the cost of another, despite the priority in the moral hierarchy being what I consider proper.

Of course folks in free nations should support Hong Kong. Of course the mainland Chinese government needs to be criticized. Of course folks who feel Blizzard is directly or indirectly contributing the erosion of certain people's human rights should be upset and vocal.

Though there is a real possibility that taking these stances and actively protesting the company, damaging their reputation in the press, etc... could cause innocent creatives and working folk harm. Not just suits with golden parachutes, but employees just trying to earn a living. I work for a company that had it's stock drop recently and now dozens of managers are demoted or fired. Thousands of regular employees are without hours as we head into the holiday season, including myself. Though I am fortunate enough to have a safety net of sorts. Many regular Joes I work with on a regular basis don't. A lot of these folks have families to feed and bills to pay. I even know one guy who may become homeless again as a result.

This is where my sympathy for walking this tightrope of decision making comes from. It's easy for me to upset at my managers and corporate liaisons, but I see them suffering too. Just because we are suffering while being in a more privileged position on a global totem pole doesn't make it any less valid. This isn't a game where simply having the highest moral standing and working towards the best possible outcome for the least fortunate subset of folks automatically guarantees no others can be left severely damaged. It's why I said I could never make the decision. I know well enough that exerting effort to uplift some can often directly or indirectly put others down. And it isn't always well off folks that are put down.

 

[Slim]

The damage has already been done. I don't think an actual apology would've done much for them from a business standpoint.

 

[Nerokis]

This whole thing is just ridiculous. Find a scapecoat to catch all the flak so everyone feels better about it while 187 other companies do the same shit and in some cases even worse, but they do it silently so its ok. Cool stay classy earth.

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This is some shit tier whataboutism.

People didn't get mad at Blizzard for doing business with China, people got mad at Blizzard for responding to pro-Hong Kong sentiment in a highly disproportional way that was blatantly tailored to appease, specifically, China's government. It was a naked, blunt, visceral (to use a classic Blizzard word) example of two things: one, the tendency in capitalism to choose money over morals; two, China using its soft power to suppress freedom of speech abroad.

NBA did the same thing, got flack for it also, and backtracked. That's how this should work. No one can keep up with all the bullshit those 187 companies are engaging in, but when this especially powerful company that we're especially familiar with does something especially obviously shitty, it doesn't hurt for people to be especially responsive in the form of call outs, protests, boycotts, or whatever else.

 

[hanshen]

This is some shit tier whataboutism.

People didn't get mad at Blizzard for doing business with China, people got mad at Blizzard for responding to pro-Hong Kong sentiment in a highly disproportional way that was blatantly tailored to appease, specifically, China's government. It was a naked, blunt, visceral (to use a classic Blizzard word) example of two things: one, the tendency in capitalism to choose money over morals; two, China using its soft power to suppress freedom of speech abroad.

NBA did the same thing, got flack for it also, and backtracked. That's how this should work. No one can keep up with all the bullshit those 187 companies are engaging in, but when this especially powerful company that we're especially familiar with does something especially obviously shitty, it doesn't hurt for people to be especially responsive in the form of call outs, protests, boycotts, or whatever else.

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Say, Blizzard issues an official statement criticizing China and get kicked out like NBA. What happened to the three overwatch pro teams then? Or all the StarCraft and Hearthstone pro players, like the girl who just won. Or all the regular Blizzard fans who just lost access to the games they paid for. Do they overthrow the government and create a power vaccum in a nuclear nation over video games? Does this make Hong Kong any more free and democratic?

 

[MCD]

This may or not be related but I got "accept privacy policy" msg just now while trying to login on Xbox:

As far as I know this is the first time I've seen it.

Edit: I logged in with another account and didn't see it. Could be a false alarm due to new account. My apologies.

 

[Deleted member 10747]

Dear Wumbo64,

First of thank you for taking the time to address my post in such a way that I feel obligated to give you a proper response and i can see that you're a defeated person. here goes.

Part1

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I was not insulted or anything just that you were being short sighted and i can understand the point you are trying to make i just really disagree with it.

Standing still is never a option, being defeated is also not a option when you look at other people suffering and it's not a battle who suffers the most. I will always stand for mankind, freedom, love, just being able to breath without worrying about every simple thing, for most free people a given for those oppressed not. When there is suffering i will stand by them. It doesn't matter how, what and if other people think its important. I will always choose my fellow people.

If you have ever suffered because of other people you know how hurtful it is to be dominated by other people. The hopelessness of being unable to do something. The feeling of being lost, unable to move, unable to even close your eyes and if you for a moment think that will pass, i got bad news for you. It doesn't, not now and not in 30 years. I'm not going to continue since I just don't want to tell what, how or how much i've been through. Just know that i will never trust a single soul.

Like i said its not a race who is worse off but having a bit of perspective goes a long way. The reality for the people you are mentioning is bad and if it could be different i would gladly take it but do you really consider looking for a job and fighting for freedom to be the same?
Blizzard is with there action literately supporting suffering and not just against Hong Kong but against several groups including the Chinese people themselves. Being against human rights and against freedom should never be a outcome and that's the one Blizzard is taking.

As individuals we can do so much but as a group we can be strong but we need all the people that we can get. I understand that you are trying to play the both sides get hurt stand. So let me sketch you a situation that you as a American should be familiar about.

Can you imagine if someone stood up earlier to stop slavery in the beginning? So many less people would have been hurt, died. And yes, some people would have lost stuff and jobs and whatever but wouldn't it be worth it to stand up to the monsters at the beginning, even if you know other people will get hurt in a different way but at least no one would be oppressed, killed, dominated.

part 3

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It's all bad and i do sympathize with them but just like i said above. Is it really comparable? To stop oppression and suffering and not having freedom should we really close our eyes and act like nothing is happening, just because some will lose there jobs because we decide not to buy there product and making sure that other people know about the shit the company is doing?

Companies will never think of the people that work for them. A couple of people can make mistakes but the first people to get fired are the one further away from were those issues arrived from. So from a companies position your only a number that's replaceable.

Part 4

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Read above.

This may or not be related but I got "accept privacy policy" msg just now while trying to login on Xbox:
Picture
As far as I know this is the first time I've seen it.

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What is it saying and isn't it just a standard privacy notice? Although i don't think i remember seeing that on consoles ever.

Edit:

Fuck China, Fuck Blizzard

Free Hong Kong

 

[Wumbo64]

Dear Wumbo64,

First of thank you for taking the time to address my post in such a way that I feel obligated to give you a proper response and i can see that you're a defeated person. here goes.


I was not insulted or anything just that you were being short sighted and i can understand the point you are trying to make i just really disagree with it.

Standing still is never a option, being defeated is also not a option when you look at other people suffering and it's not a battle who suffers the most. I will always stand for mankind, freedom, love, just being able to breath without worrying about every simple thing for most free people. When there is suffering i will stand by them. It doesn't matter how, what and if other people think its important. I will always choose my fellow people.

If you have ever suffered because of other people you know how hurtful it is to be dominated by other people. The hopelessness of being unable to do something. The feeling of being lost, unable to move, unable to even close your eyes and if you for a moment think that will pass, i got bad news for you. It doesn't, not now and not in 30 years. I'm not going to continue since I just don't want to tell what, how or how much i've been through. Just know that i will never trust a single soul.

Like i said its not a race who is worse off but having a bit of perspective goes a long way. The reality for the people you are mentioning is bad and if it could be different i would gladly take it but do you really consider looking for a job and fighting for freedom to be the same?
Blizzard is with there action literately supporting suffering and not just against Hong Kong but against several groups including the Chinese people themselves. Being against human rights and against freedom should never be a outcome and that's the one Blizzard is taking.

As individuals we can do so much but as a group we can be strong but we need all the people that we can get. I understand that you are trying to play the both sides get hurt stand. So let me sketch you a situation that you as a American should be familiar about.

Can you imagine if someone stood up earlier to stop slavery in the beginning? So many less people would have been hurt, died. And yes, some people would have lost stuff and jobs and whatever but wouldn't it be worth it to stand up to the monsters at the beginning, even if you know other people will get hurt in a different way but at least no one would be oppressed, killed, dominated.



It's all bad and i do sympathize with them but just like i said above. Is it really comparable? To stop oppression and suffering and not having freedom should we really close our eyes and act like nothing is happening, just because some will lose there jobs because we decide not to buy there product and making sure that other people know about the shit the company is doing?

Companies will never think of the people that work for them. A couple of people can make mistakes but the first people to get fired are the one further away from were those issues arrived from. So from a companies position your only a number that's replaceable.

Read above.

Click to shrink...

I am just going to say you aren't the only one with life experiences. I am personally fine if I lose my job. I am not going to lose my house or anything. I know others that will literally be destitute because of where they are in their lives. I don't work at a big office or with some folk that are super flexible with how they could rebound from stuff like this. I work with a lot of poor folk, older previously unemployed folk and others with precarious living situations. Of course they have the option to uproot their lives and go elsewhere. That isn't feasible for a lot of people in the low income bracket though. They will make what they can work, if possible.

I realize this isn't in the same tier as things that challenge basic freedoms. But when you see a family unit or individual have their life turned inside-out because of money, it can be hard to still feel so resolved. So when you mention perspective, I feel it is disingenuous when there are folks here facing a bevy of life-threatening issues and stresses due to being displaced by the economy. I unfortunately know a lot of folks that would likely surrender their "fundamental freedoms" so they can put a roof over their heads.

Rapid onset of mental illness, drug and alcohol addictions, becoming desperate enough to engage in criminal activity to get ahead... these are the things I have seen happen and are unsurprisingly likely to happen when you pull the rug out from under people. This doesn't make the principle of fighting for fundamental rights any less just, it just means there will be unconsidered negative ramifications from pursuing a course of action that effects a macro set of individuals. Which is why I said the entire affair is a mess. It is also why I said I couldn't make these decisions as part of a body that governs people. As a leader in these situations, you optimally make compromises to satisfy a logistically read out of all parties. In some instances, you let principle dictate your course of action and sacrifice more than just face to get a point across. It's often hard to do. It's why I sympathize with a lot of authority figures. They are still people, they still have to make choices, it's still hard to reconcile choices you make.

Human beings have a tendency to simplify complex issues by creating priorities and hierarchies of the factors involved in their minds. Outsiders to these affairs only have to redistribute where their sympathies lie and voice an opinion for or against a cause. Worse yet, the unaffected rarely consider the entire spider-web of human variables that gets tugged on when these decisions get made.

I voiced my opinion in the hopes that some would look beyond just the core problem, horrid as it may be. When I look at this forum and to the greater gaming community... I am certainly heartened by the devotion to civil rights being respected, yet it too often comes with a mob mentality that lacks substance beyond basic emotional compassion. It's why we see blanket statements like "Fuck Blizzard" when we know there are employees that don't support the action or might not have even known what was occurring behind closed doors. Yet the leaders of these snowballing movements rarely stop to pick apart the details and keep their supporters informed so they make decisions leveraging their perspective and individuality to give real weight to a cause.

I am not trying to discredit the cause or apologize for Blizzard's behavior. I am trying to reinforce that committing to this action shouldn't come at the cost of considering the human element every individual brings to this situation, particularly from those in authority.

I would also hope that some learn that blind love can also easily be transformed into blind wrath. Something that is never good for anyone.

Anyone that has turned this over in their head, considering who it effects and how, yet still feels willing to commit to principles... has my respect.

 

[Huey]

yeah it came off much more as an apology to their various overlords for mismanaging the situation than any kind of apology for the thing people were actually upset about.

That being said, based on era's response to the announcements, I don't think there will be much in the way of repercussions for them sales wise. Era would be as good as it gets for standing firm on this, so not much hope for the broader community having any memory on this.

 

[Deleted member 10747]

I am just going to say you aren't the only one with life experiences. I am personally fine if I lose my job. I am not going to lose my house or anything. I know others that will literally be destitute because of where they are in their lives. I don't work at a big office or with some folk that are super flexible with how they could rebound from stuff like this. I work with a lot of poor folk, older previously unemployed folk and others with precarious living situations. Of course they have the option to uproot their lives and go elsewhere. That isn't feasible for a lot of people in the low income bracket though. They will make what they can work, if possible.

I realize this isn't in the same tier as things that challenge basic freedoms. But when you see a family unit or individual have their life turned inside-out because of money, it can be hard to still feel so resolved. So when you mention perspective, I feel it is disingenuous when there are folks here facing a bevy of life-threatening issues and stresses due to being displaced by the economy. I unfortunately know a lot of folks that would likely surrender their "fundamental freedoms" so they can put a roof over their heads.

Rapid onset of mental illness, drug and alcohol addictions, becoming desperate enough to engage in criminal activity to get ahead... these are the things I have seen happen and are unsurprisingly likely to happen when you pull the rug out from under people. This doesn't make the principle of fighting for fundamental rights any less just, it just means there will be unconsidered negative ramifications from pursuing a course of action that effects a macro set of individuals. Which is why I said the entire affair is a mess. It is also why I said I couldn't make these decisions as part of a body that governs people. As a leader in these situations, you optimally make compromises to satisfy a logistically read out of all parties. In some instances, you let principle dictate your course of action and sacrifice more than just face to get a point across. It's often hard to do. It's why I sympathize with a lot of authority figures. They are still people, they still have to make choices, it's still hard to reconcile choices you make.

Human beings have a tendency to simplify complex issues by creating priorities and hierarchies of the factors involved in their minds. Outsiders to these affairs only have to redistribute where their sympathies lie and voice an opinion for or against a cause. Worse yet, the unaffected rarely consider the entire spider-web of human variables that gets tugged on when these decisions get made.

I voiced my opinion in the hopes that some would look beyond just the core problem, horrid as it may be. When I look at this forum and to the greater gaming community... I am certainly heartened by the devotion to civil rights being respected, yet it too often comes with a mob mentality that lacks substance beyond basic emotional compassion. It's why we see blanket statements like "Fuck Blizzard" when we know there are employees that don't support the action or might not have even known what was occurring behind closed doors. Yet the leaders of these snowballing movements rarely stop to pick apart the details and keep their supporters informed so they make decisions leveraging their perspective and individuality to give real weight to a cause.

I am not trying to discredit the cause or apologize for Blizzard's behavior. I am trying to reinforce that committing to this action shouldn't come at the cost of considering the human element every individual brings to this situation, particularly from those in authority.

I would also hope that some learn that blind love can also easily be transformed into blind wrath. Something that is never good for anyone.

Anyone that has turned this over in their head, considering who it effects and how, yet still feels willing to commit to principles... has my respect.

Click to shrink...

Where in my text am i acting like I'm the only one with life experiences? But whatever.

Second the people you are talking about, yeah guess what I'm like them. I have jack fucking shit and am literately struggling but that still doesn't mean that human rights is not important and we should not step over it because we can lose our jobs. I haven't bought a freaking game in the last 1.5 years, i have been saving to buy one game so don't come with your defense of poor people struggling to act like human rights should just be well brushed aside. Like the fuck? You are literately saying to be passive because people will be effected? Whats next your also going to say not to fight isis because innocent people can be hurt and killed on both sides while fighting isis?

Just because a cause can have different effect shouldn't mean we should walk over bodies and human rights now matter how poor we are.

Standing still doing nothing and expecting change is never going to happen. But sure let's act as if the outcome is the same on both sides.

Fuck China, Fuck Blizzard

Free Hong Kong

 

[LowParry]

yeah it came off much more as an apology to their various overlords for mismanaging the situation than any kind of apology for the thing people were actually upset about.

That being said, based on era's response to the announcements, I don't think there will be much in the way of repercussions for them sales wise. Era would be as good as it gets for standing firm on this, so not much hope for the broader community having any memory on this.

Click to shrink...

It may also come down to when everything gets settled in Hong Kong. It could happen next week or next year.

 

[Wumbo64]

Where in my text am i acting like I'm the only one with life experiences? But whatever.

Second the people you are talking about, yeah guess what I'm like them. I have jack fucking shit and am literately struggling but that still doesn't mean that human rights is not important and we should not step over it because we can lose our jobs. I haven't bought a freaking game in the last 1.5 years, i have been saving to buy one game so don't come with your defense of poor people struggling to act like human rights should just be well brushed aside. Like the fuck? You are literately saying to be passive because people will be effected? Whats next your also going to say not to fight isis because innocent people can be hurt and killed on both sides while fighting isis?

Just because a cause can have different effect shouldn't mean we should walk over bodies and human rights now matter how poor we are.

Standing still doing nothing and expecting change is never going to happen. But sure let's act as if the outcome is the same on both sides.

Fuck China, Fuck Blizzard

Free Hong Kong

Click to shrink...

Again, I am heartened by your resolve. I am glad you are for this, especially in light of your circumstances. It gives it substance and has my respect. I am glad you are not willing to be passive in this situation. I am more hesitant, that is my nature. I will contribute what I feel is right to the causes I believe.

However, there are plenty of historical contexts that rightfully downplay the gains made by big social efforts.

I am glad there were liberals in the 1960s and 1970s who protested the Vietnam War. However, I am also disgusted that they slandered folks who were often drafted or simply thought they were fighting for democracy. They threw stones at them as the got off the planes and labeled them as baby killers. A lot of these people were essentially blacklisted from having careers or finding jobs. Now I live in area where I see them in droves on a daily basis, often mentally ill or drug addled occupying camps or shanty towns. They were a casualty of an American public who acted without thought in condemning symptoms of a sick government. Now they are often treated like invisible cattle, uniquely forgotten and dehumanized. An unconsidered consequence of a bunch of folks transfixed by short-sighted empathy, despite clearly wielding good intentions.

You absolutely can be considerate and direct your energy towards productive change. Haste can make waste.

 

[X-Peaceman-X]

This is some shit tier whataboutism.

People didn't get mad at Blizzard for doing business with China, people got mad at Blizzard for responding to pro-Hong Kong sentiment in a highly disproportional way that was blatantly tailored to appease, specifically, China's government. It was a naked, blunt, visceral (to use a classic Blizzard word) example of two things: one, the tendency in capitalism to choose money over morals; two, China using its soft power to suppress freedom of speech abroad.

NBA did the same thing, got flack for it also, and backtracked. That's how this should work. No one can keep up with all the bullshit those 187 companies are engaging in, but when this especially powerful company that we're especially familiar with does something especially obviously shitty, it doesn't hurt for people to be especially responsive in the form of call outs, protests, boycotts, or whatever else.

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Did i say others are doing business in china and thats what i was speaking on? sorry i guess i can't read properly.
Other companies actively contribute to working against Hong Kong. That has nothing to do with doing business in a region.

Now the point i agree with is that this is a company we as gamers are inherently familiar with and as such are in a situation to make an impact, but imo this is the wrong way to make that change.

knowing that people will not stop buying their shit, complaining will always fall on deaf ears beyond a simple apology like we got. So it suits us best to approach the situation differently.

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]