Blizzard China Defends Decision To Ban Blitzchung, Says They Will Always Defend “the pride of our country”

Feb 24, 2018
965
Remind me again never to look at the comments in news articles... My fears of people trying to crap on any one protesting at Blizzcon against what Blizzard did just grew. And no people shouldn't stop because it will make Chinese government apologist feel uncomfortable at Blizzcon when their just wanting a good time, that's the point, the truth hurts and THIS IS ON BLIZZARD AND THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT'S head not on the protesters, want to complain, complain to them.
 

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,893
1989 is a big big big mistake by our government and I don't like how our government trying to bury it in the history book.
It is not a right thing and our country was get sanctioned.

I admit that 1989 is not that allowed to be discussed in China.

I think I am trying to make it very clear, please do NOT dislike China.
Our country is a great country.
If dudu stops posting after this post I am scared for him
 

Mazzle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,082
Germany
The developer made this mistake and now they have to take the consequences. I would say they are deserved for this.
Is what you said dudu0609 about Devotion being removed from Stea, due to a Winnie the Pooh easter egg.
So much about your freedom of expression. Oh right, there isn't one in China, but only because you live in Europe you can say something like this:
I admit that 1989 is not that allowed to be discussed in China.
Without having the fear to get repercussions from a government, like in China.


Yup, I admit that I am a bit of nationalism and thank you not directly attacking me like many others.
Then lemme attack you for being "a bit" of nationalism.
Fuck off, gently. And I say this as a German citizen, who know all the wrongdoings in Nazi Germany, and the GDR and what pain and suffering these systems brought to the people and Europe. You can stick your nationalism where the sun doesn't shine you hypocrite.
I'm sick and tried to deal with more upcoming nationalism everywhere and I don't need someone here or anywhere to try to defend this line of thinking and normalizing it as something totally normal. That it is okay what China is doing, just because you're chinese. That it is okay for them doing fascist thing, while you can live a free life without fear from a government. For playing dumb even if you have access to all kinds of history books, about the cruelty by the chinese government. Fuck right off with that and don't even restart with your "think I have my freedom of expression and immediately get personal attack." BS.
 

Space Madness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
412
One piece of this story that I'd like clarified: did the ban come from Blizzard's offices in China? Or was it issued from an office in the States or Europe?

Because those are kind of two different things. I don't think that Blitzchung should have been banned, but I'm sitting in a comfy chair in a country with laws protecting free speech. I'm not sure how much moral outrage I can muster about somebody in China making a hard decision between banning a player and facing arrest themselves. (The "right" decision is to risk arrest, of course, but I'm not sure that I'd be brave enough to make the right decision, were I to be the one in that situation.)

From a global perspective, the higher ups at Blizzard in the states have to consider the safety of their employees in China when deciding whether or not to uphold a ban that they instituted. I'm not sure if it counts as moral courage to order somebody to do something that will get them arrested, when you yourself aren't taking a similar risk.

Of course, there's a lot of money at stake here, and there are cynical reasons that Blizzard would have issued and upheld the ban. But I'm not sure that the conversation here contains a lot of respect for the actual people involved in Blizzard's China offices.

And all that is leaving aside the tricky issue of Hong Kong being semi-independent as a legacy of British colonialism; China isn't entirely in the wrong here in its base claims ... though the protesters in Hong Kong aren't exactly wrong to want to preserve the Independence that they have. Oof.
If Blizzard's hand is forced by having employees in China, then the only right thing for them to do would be to stop doing business in China. Then they could support freedom of speech. After all, the Activision Blizzard executives are sitting in comfy chairs with laws protecting their free speech, right?

That's all assuming that morality is a priority for Blizzard.
 
Feb 24, 2018
965
your country is not your government.
the latter is a totalitarian regime, you know it. at least don't try to gaslight us.
This China has a rich and deep history and mythology, helped humanity in many ways, has many unique fauna and flora and many people from China are great. China's government on the other hand is a horrid dictatorship that violates human rights.
 

Noodle

Member
Aug 22, 2018
1,339
no, chinese people are not under oppressive regimes.



Do me a favour, google Tienanmen Square. Oh, right, you can't....
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,824
I'm not sure why you're bothering with him. He's been spreading that same nonsense here on the forum for years. Here are some from 2017 where he blatantly says that western media are lying about China :
Here's the thing, many mainland Chinese DO believe western media lies about their country. Basically, "fake news" as an accusation for anything badmouthing their government has been a thing for over a decade there. They don't come off as a propagandist or a plant, many people from the mainland are told to believe exactly this. And it's not hard to see why it's widespread. It's way easier to pretend the world is out to keep the little guy down (China has been the little guy for a long time) than to confront the atrocities your country commits miles and miles away from you that you know nothing about.

I mean, just look on US soil and the cognitive dissonance required by the right to either pretend the caged migrant situation either didn't happen or is perfectly lawful and is not doing anything wrong. They will bend over backwards to defend or handwave all kinds of corruption, and the only brainwashing they have is Fox News and public radio. Imagine if the full brunt of the government was focused on spreading fake news and propaganda and anyone fact checking could be disappeared.
 

Pixel Grotto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
866
One thing to note, which some others have already pointed out here, is that the statement made in Chinese is by Blizzard's local team in Mainland China. it's full of the same kind of language that a lot of local Chinese companies - and celebrities - have had to make in order to avoid showing support with Hong Kong and maintain the CCP party line. It specifically says that they'll continue to work to "safeguard national dignity."

A lot of people are jumping on Blizzard for signing with an authoritarian government, but they're a huge corporation that cares about money, and they have long made concessions to the Chinese market. It started with reskinning the Undead bones in WoW to get past censors; now it's this. I'm not surprised - disappointed perhaps, but I haven't really liked Blizzard that much for a while.
 

Dest

The Fallen
Jun 4, 2018
3,901
Work
Just because I disagree entirely with pretty much everything he has said, I will always seek to understand why people think the way that they do rather than just blatantly ignoring it. It’s not going to convince me China’s government isn’t oppressive and doesn’t kill people that speak out against it, but it will help me understand why people champion the government and that in turn allows me to be better informed and better argue my points.
i appreciate this post more than you could possibly understand.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,331
I think I am trying to make it very clear, please do NOT dislike China.
Our country is a great country.
Why are you conflating hating China with hating your government's decisions? We do the same thing in our own country, I fucking hate my government but I don't hate the country. The glorious part is I'm allowed to do that.
 

Space Madness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
412
One thing to note, which some others have already pointed out here, is that the statement made in Chinese is by Blizzard's local team in Mainland China. it's full of the same kind of language that a lot of local Chinese companies - and celebrities - have had to make in order to avoid showing support with Hong Kong and maintain the CCP party line. It specifically says that they'll continue to work to "safeguard national dignity."

A lot of people are jumping on Blizzard for signing with an authoritarian government, but they're a huge corporation that cares about money, and they have long made concessions to the Chinese market. It started with reskinning the Undead bones in WoW to get past censors; now it's this. I'm not surprised - disappointed perhaps, but I haven't really liked Blizzard that much for a while.
None of this justifies Blizzard executives outside of China supporting the Chinese government. After their Chinese division put out that statement, the rest of Blizzard could've denounced it. No, all Blizzard executives share the blame. Money isn't an excuse here.
 

Pixel Grotto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
866
None of this justifies Blizzard executives outside of China supporting the Chinese government. After their Chinese division put out that statement, the rest of Blizzard could've denounced it. No, all Blizzard executives share the blame. Money isn't an excuse here.
You are correct; it's not an excuse. But I...don't think most big conglomerations work in that sort of idealized way.

For what it's worth, the people on the ground at Blizzard are at least voicing their opinions.

 

KernelC

Member
Aug 28, 2019
464
you're coward, supporting a awful government. don't comeback if you're gonna support A fascist government
something I've often noticed, even from my closest Chinese friends, is that they all still support China even knowing all the atrocities they commit, and I don't know why. These are extremely smart, normal individuals who have lived almost as much time outside China as in China but they somehow still stand against Hong Kong and Taiwan while supporting their dictator and they all literally defend the Social Credit system. It's super baffling to me
 

Sagadego17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,771
something I've often noticed, even from my closest Chinese friends, is that they all still support China even knowing all the atrocities they commit, and I don't know why. These are extremely smart, normal individuals who have lived almost as much time outside China as in China but they somehow still stand against Hong Kong and Taiwan while supporting their dictator and they all literally defend the Social Credit system. It's super baffling to me
probably don't get tossed in jail or worse, Xi is a crazy piece of shit!
 

Arcsurvivor

Member
Jul 13, 2018
120
something I've often noticed, even from my closest Chinese friends, is that they all still support China even knowing all the atrocities they commit, and I don't know why. These are extremely smart, normal individuals who have lived almost as much time outside China as in China but they somehow still stand against Hong Kong and Taiwan while supporting their dictator and they all literally defend the Social Credit system. It's super baffling to me
Some individuals do not think for themselves and are prone to being sheep. Also, some of your friends may have family members that are affected by the HK protests. I know one particular Chinese HS player- Amaz has not spoken out because it may affect the safety of his family.
 

Yushi

Member
Nov 27, 2017
162
My gf used to be an ex-pat in China nearly 10 years ago. When we meet some of her friends from there, while nice people the first time, it's very very clear they are heavily brainwashed.

Were nearly talking about a 1.4 billion people echo chamber. They're seriously in their own bubble and even still act when they are outside. They never do no wrong!

But in China's culture, familly is very important and they believe they are being watch at all time and dont want to risk any type of situation where it would put family members in harms way

It's real bad.

Fear is a very powerful weapon.
 
Oct 28, 2017
864
I disagree. Even if they are nationalistic, I would like to know more and understand where they are coming from when they say what they say. Better to be informed than to not to be. Thank you for your concern though.
There are a myriad of academics publishing insights into the Chinese ethnocracy, identity politics and One Country, Two Systems policy, if you're looking to be informed. Searching for information from individuals deeply embedded in the CCP's panopticon is a waste of time.

For instance, on the Uyghur issue:


On militarism/nationalism, these guys:

 

Serpens007

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,806
Thank you for responding. Can you expand on what it means to not be allowed? Do you mean it cannot be discussed?

additionally, do you think it is right for the government to censor topics and attempt to cut short the one country two systems that Hong Kong operates under?
I think It's quite hard to believe the news about the horrible thing the Chinese government has/is doing in the middle of a conflict with the main west power. This of course doesn't make the news fake, but even if it's a trade/influence wars, it's still the only conflict there can be between the two powers without dooming the entire planet, so if you add the fact that there is a lot of love of country involved, believing that they are western propaganda is quite easy.
 

jay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,222
Interestingly enough, Marxism and nationalism are entirely incompatible.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,395
something I've often noticed, even from my closest Chinese friends, is that they all still support China even knowing all the atrocities they commit, and I don't know why. These are extremely smart, normal individuals who have lived almost as much time outside China as in China but they somehow still stand against Hong Kong and Taiwan while supporting their dictator and they all literally defend the Social Credit system. It's super baffling to me
Nationalism is poison. A friend of mine was telling me that though they have no family back in the mainland, his parents are big supporters of the CCP. They turn a blind eye to the awful things that goes on and feels that there's always good reason why the Chinese government do what they do. They keep telling my friend that he's misinformed lol

I've seen this sentiment among some Indian friends as well, who are super progressive liberals here but are also ardent supporters of Modi / BJP. Nationalism just sucks.
 
OP
OP
Hobbes

Hobbes

Incident Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,317
United States
There are a myriad of academics publishing insights into the Chinese ethnocracy, identity politics and One Country, Two Systems policy, if you're looking to be informed. Searching for information from individuals deeply embedded in the CCP's panopticon is a waste of time.

For instance, on the Uyghur issue:


On militarism/nationalism, these guys:

Thanks for these resources. I still believe its beneficial to ask for my own sake, but I would not conflate me asking one person as that being my only avenue of gathering information. I'll probably read these later tonight.
 

Nome

Designer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,448
NYC
The report is same as english, not sure what do you mean.
Or you guys can't see the tweet?
It’s not even close. The tweet says that he was promised compensation for injuring protestors (wrong, there’s a fundraiser for him). You called it a reward.

There is no mention of charges in the article. It makes no mention of motive, or whether it was an accident.

You also did not mention that the protestors pulled him out of the vehicle and beat him, which is likely why he needs police protection.
 

Berordn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,153
Orlando, FL
They can wait this controversy out and let it subside from the public conscious. However, internally it sounds like shit is boiling over.

They don't have that ability with China without risking the entire market they have been building for years.
And pissing off quite a few investors for things like OWL given how many stadiums they've been building there.
 

Kolbe1894

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,017
It’s not even close. The tweet says that he was promised compensation for injuring protestors (wrong, there’s a fundraiser for him). You called it a reward.

There is no mention of charges in the article. It makes no mention of motive, or whether it was an accident.

You also did not mention that the protestors pulled him out of the vehicle and beat him, which is likely why he needs police protection.
It's a reward, have you ever heard about broken windows theory?
And what the fuck? accident? a stopped Taxi suddenly start moving in a place with full of people is fucking accident now?
 

Nome

Designer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,448
NYC
It's a reward, have you ever heard about broken windows theory?
And what the fuck? accident? a stopped Taxi suddenly start moving in a place with full of people is fucking accident now?
Have not seen the video, thanks for this.
But you did not address the other clear inaccuracies in your post. And you’re gonna have to explain how broken windows theory applies here.
 

Space Madness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
412
It’s not even close. The tweet says that he was promised compensation for injuring protestors (wrong, there’s a fundraiser for him). You called it a reward.

There is no mention of charges in the article. It makes no mention of motive, or whether it was an accident.

You also did not mention that the protestors pulled him out of the vehicle and beat him, which is likely why he needs police protection.
That's a hell of a mental gymnastics act you've got there. All evidence points to this being intentional and the money being a reward.
 

Unknownhero

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,082
I must reply this.
I don't know how people think we are being paid to defend our country.

I am proud of my country from my deep heart and I am defending my country by my own motivation.

Thanks a lot~!
You're on the wrong side of history friend. No country is great if they trample on the freedom of others nor if they subjugate others for religion, race, creed, sex, etc. You my friend are proud of a country that harvests organs from Muslims, reward it's citizens for attacking protestors, silences any form of criticism, and much more. You are no better then those who perform those atrocities, you who would defend them. In my eyes, you're two sides of the same coin. Some here want to learn why you are like this but most already know why like myself. I'm going to stop here, i want to say more but I'll risk a ban doing so and your not worth it.
 

Nome

Designer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,448
NYC
That's a hell of a mental gymnastics act you've got there. All evidence points to this being intentional and the money being a reward.
There are fundraisers for people who do bad shit all the time. Doesn’t make it a reward. Trump’s impeachment defense fundraiser is not a reward for doing illegal things. To call it a reward is to specifically imply it’s being incentivized.
 

jay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,222
What's Marxist about China? Creeping totalitarianism + 'organic' conception of hierarchical society + Han chauvinism (exhibit A in Xinjiang) + state-sponsored capitalism = fascism

I mean, here's what the CCP thinks about 'Marxists'
That was my point. Nationalists from China would disagree though and claim they live in a communist country, as would I assume the Communist Party that runs the country.
 

Space Madness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
412
There are fundraisers for people who do bad shit all the time. Doesn’t make it a reward. Trump’s impeachment defense fundraiser is not a reward for doing illegal things. To call it a reward is to specifically imply it’s being incentivized.
It is incentivized. An impeachment defense fund is absolutely a reward for Trump doing illegal things. Only a Trump supporter would donate to a Trump impeachment defense fund. It's in the definition for reward: "a thing given in recognition of one's service, effort, or achievement". If people didn't support Trump's actions, they wouldn't give to his impeachment defense fund.

Why would people possibly donate to a fundraiser for someone who accidentally plowed a car into a bunch of protestors? Do you think those people donating are proponents of Hong Kong's liberation?
 
OP
OP
Hobbes

Hobbes

Incident Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,317
United States
EDIT - Didn't know he a gamergater. Whoops.

Incredible.


I am ethnically Chinese. I was born in Taiwan and I lived in Hong Kong for a time. I have done buisiness with China for many years, with serveral gaming companies there. So I think I have a valid perspective here, having been a Team Lead at Blizzard and having grown up in Asia.

I have watched China slowly take over as the dominant investing force in gaming and movies over the years. It’s a shame US companies never believed as strongly as China and Asia in investing in games, but this allowed China to have unprecedented influence over our media.

Chinese game companies have grown huge not just because of market size, but because the government subsidizes them. They get free land, free offices, and huge infusions of cash. This cash was and is used to do expand and buy up stakes in US gaming companies.

I’ve seen firsthand the corruption of Chinese gaming companies, and I was removed from a company I founded (after Blizzard) for refusing to take a 2 million dollar kickback bribe to take an investment from China. This is the first time I’ve ever spoken pubically about it.

I’ve also seen how American company reps in China have been offered similar bribes to get licenses for large AAA titles. Not everyone refused like I did.

Chinese companies tried to ruin my career with planted press stories. Money is often paid for favorable press in China and some of that money flows here to the US as well. Unfortunately, money talks. China has succeeded in infiltrating all levels of tech, gaming and more.

Unfortunately, US and European companies are loath to take risks and invest in game companies legally as much as China was. China remained one of the few places mid tier studios could get funding. So again, China influence grew. I’m sure this is the same for movies as well.

But now we are in a situation where unlimited Communist money dictates our American values. We censor our games for China, we censor our movies for China. Now, game companies are silencing voices for freedom and democracy. China is dictating that the world be authoritarian.

Of all the companies in the world, Blizzard is the LAST company I ever expected to give in to China’s demands. Blizzard was always about “gamer first” and “don’t be greedy.” At least, it was when I was there.

It’s one thing to keep politics out of games, which I am still a proponent of doing. It’s another to unfairly and harshly punish voices that speak out against corruption, against abuses of human rights, and freedom.

I take a huge risk by saying this. China monitors all social media and I know this means that we will probably never get an investment from China for my new MMO, and probably never get a license to operate there.

But enough is enough. I stand with Hong Kong, and I oppose Blizzard’s obvious and laughably transparent fear of China. It’s time for Blizzard to grow the spine it used to have, and to do what’s right for gamers once again. Gamers, rise up.


And yes, this means I will be refusing any deal for Epic exclusivity. The money comes from Tencent. Em8ER will never be an Epic game store exclusive. This might mean we never make a dime, but more is at stake now than just games. A line has to be drawn, and I’m drawing it now.
Separate thread for discussion

 
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Patch13

Member
Oct 27, 2017
356
New England
If Blizzard's hand is forced by having employees in China, then the only right thing for them to do would be to stop doing business in China. Then they could support freedom of speech. After all, the Activision Blizzard executives are sitting in comfy chairs with laws protecting their free speech, right?

That's all assuming that morality is a priority for Blizzard.
If you just think of China as a big pile of money, this is a straightforward moral decision (though not an easy one for a business to make -- hooray Capitalism!)

If you think of China as a few billion people who might be interesting to work with, or to see as opponents across a virtual Hearthstone table, then the decision gets a bit more complex. Do you refuse to work with all citizens of a country if you disagree with one or more of that country's laws? Is it easier to do this when the country is further away, and filled with people who don't look exactly like you?

I think that people have seized upon one "right" answer, which is to make lots of pro Hong Kong Mei fan art. That's awesome and subversive and cool. I hope that one of the other "right" answers isn't that Blizzard just stops doing business with China, or that players refuse to play games with other players who just happen to be Chinese citizens. That doesn't sound enlightened, or pro social justice and freedom and such ...