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Blizzard China Defends Decision To Ban Blitzchung, Says They Will Always Defend “the pride of our country”

zbon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
138
Toronto!
That was my point. Nationalists from China would disagree though and claim they live in a communist country, as would I assume the Communist Party that runs the country.
My bad. Though now that I think of it, that Marxism/Socialism/Communism confusion also runs pretty strongly through Western mainstream political dialogue as well.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
Incredible.




Separate thread for discussion

I love the "Politics should be outta gaming, but since this affects me....". Like I'm glad he's doing this, but this kinda should be a wakeup call.
 

Space Madness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
422
Do you refuse to work with all citizens of a country if you disagree with one or more of that country's laws?
Yes.

Especially when that law requires you to actively stifle all criticism of that government. Especially when that criticism is of human rights abuses. Blizzard probably has/had customers among the Uighurs and HongKongers. It's wrong. You've only made thinly veiled false accusations of racism, not shown why Blizzard should participate in oppression.

That doesn't sound enlightened, or pro social justice and freedom and such ...
It does to me. Selling games to people doesn't counterbalance actively participating in oppression.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
10,884
something I've often noticed, even from my closest Chinese friends, is that they all still support China even knowing all the atrocities they commit, and I don't know why. These are extremely smart, normal individuals who have lived almost as much time outside China as in China but they somehow still stand against Hong Kong and Taiwan while supporting their dictator and they all literally defend the Social Credit system. It's super baffling to me
I live in a city with a massive Chinese immigrant population and went to grad school with lots of Chinese expats. While they aren't a monolith and have their varying degrees of approval (or disapproval) of their government, the belief that China is a sort of "necessary evil" seems to pervade (assuming they aren't out and out nationalistic). They're also usually from wealthy families that are protected from (most of) the government's atrocities and censorship. They also feel connection to their families and heritage and sometimes view attacks on the Chinese government as an attack on that.

As I've said earlier in this thread, I have family that fled Hong Kong, so you can imagine how I feel about that sentiment.
 

Pelican

Member
Oct 26, 2017
214
They are sharing it everywhere in hopes the Chinese government notices and bans Overwatch in China. Mods on r/overwatch deleted the image when it was shared even though it didn't break any rules.
I expect to see lots of Mei cosplayers at Blizz-con.
3. Posting of images and screenshots to the subreddit
As well as abiding by the SFW requirement for content posting on the subreddit, there are two specific guidelines we ask users to keep in mind when posting images on the subreddit:
3.1. Post images with context
Images without context are forbidden. It is perfectly acceptable (and encouraged) to include images in textual posts when necessary, or submit fanart to the subreddit. However, images without context will be removed; effectively banning direct image posts to the subreddit.

Yes, but redditors hate the Chinese government. Lots of anti-chinese posts reached r/all when Tencent invested money on Reddit but they weren't deleted. I think r/overwatch mods must be paid Blizzard employees. I saw one mod quit r/hearthstone over this debacle.
I can confirm that no one from r/overwatch is a paid employee of blizzard. A leftover from the old era of reddit where game subs were still run by communities as a hobby and not companies. The sub dealt with mass brigading, and like many huge stories, consolidated into a mega thread of sorts. Everything was being spam shared dozens of times, and many rules were being ignored in the process. Add in the threats of doxxing and more, and oh boy is everyone having a grand time. Now a day out, the old thread is fading and the brigading is thinning out. Another thread (Polygon's article about Mei representing the resistance) has quickly reached the top of r/all.


Semi-related, I for one look forward to seeing how much effort they put into not showing the crowds on the BlizzCon streams. Should be really funny.
 

Patch13

Member
Oct 27, 2017
357
New England
Yes.

Especially when that law requires you to actively stifle all criticism of that government. Especially when that criticism is of human rights abuses. Blizzard probably has/had customers among the Uighurs and HongKongers. It's wrong. You've only made thinly veiled false accusations of racism, not shown why Blizzard should participate in oppression.
I guess one thing that makes me uncomfortable is that the Hong Kong protest has a right wing nationalist bent to it, with pro U.S. (pro Trump!) signs showing up, Union Jacks getting hung from places, etc. Hong Kong is a pencil balanced on its tip. It's either going to fall one way, and get absorbed by China, or fall the other way, and get used as a political (and possibly military) pawn in conflict with China. As a citizen of one of the countries that might end up doing some pretty bad stuff if it decided to go all in and support Hong Kong, I'm kind of hesitant to see this cast as a black and white issue. If I support the protesters, do I also support other right wing nationalist movements that are ostensibly about fighting back against oppression, like Brexit and Trumpism in the states? Probably not -- I think that there are some bright lines that can be drawn between them. The right is in power in problematic ways in the West, and the left is in power in problematic ways in China, and so right wing movements against China are kind of inherently more justified than right wing movements in the States. But I also don't want to be just reflexively supporting right wing nationalism. (And I also am not well enough informed about the situation to know whether the Hong Kong protest is really all that right wing, or whether it just contains a diverse group of people and opinions.)

... which is why I initially poked my nose in the thread wondering who made the decisions in Blizzard, and where they were located, and what their reasoning might be. I'm still leaning on the side of "make Mei art" and "maybe boycott Blizzard" (though there's nothing I can do at this point about my Overwatch Switch pre-order). But the righteous anger blazing through this thread feels just a little bit off to me. We're not demanding Blizzard pull out of the states because of the children dying on the border, or pull out of the U.K. because they're gearing up to potentially starve their population in order to appease some people wont don't like EU banking regulations ...
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,192
I guess one thing that makes me uncomfortable is that the Hong Kong protest has a right wing nationalist bent to it, with pro U.S. (pro Trump!) signs showing up, Union Jacks getting hung from places, etc. Hong Kong is a pencil balanced on its tip. It's either going to fall one way, and get absorbed by China, or fall the other way, and get used as a political (and possibly military) pawn in conflict with China. As a citizen of one of the countries that might end up doing some pretty bad stuff if it decided to go all in and support Hong Kong, I'm kind of hesitant to see this cast as a black and white issue. If I support the protesters, do I also support other right wing nationalist movements that are ostensibly about fighting back against oppression, like Brexit and Trumpism in the states? Probably not -- I think that there are some bright lines that can be drawn between them. The right is in power in problematic ways in the West, and the left is in power in problematic ways in China, and so right wing movements against China are kind of inherently more justified than right wing movements in the States. But I also don't want to be just reflexively supporting right wing nationalism. (And I also am not well enough informed about the situation to know whether the Hong Kong protest is really all that right wing, or whether it just contains a diverse group of people and opinions.)

... which is why I initially poked my nose in the thread wondering who made the decisions in Blizzard, and where they were located, and what their reasoning might be. I'm still leaning on the side of "make Mei art" and "maybe boycott Blizzard" (though there's nothing I can do at this point about my Overwatch Switch pre-order). But the righteous anger blazing through this thread feels just a little bit off to me. We're not demanding Blizzard pull out of the states because of the children dying on the border, or pull out of the U.K. because they're gearing up to potentially starve their population in order to appease some people wont don't like EU banking regulations ...
Are you... just completely unaware of what this whole thing is about?

The issue isn’t that Blizzard are siding with China, that would be its own issue, but that’s not why this is being discussed. It’s because Blizzard are silencing and punishing those who speak out against China.

If my country put pressure on Blizzard to silence and punish any who speak out against Brexit, I would absolutely be pissed off. We all would. And Brexit pales in comparison to some of the evil shit the Chinese government pulls.
 

RoaminRonin

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,916
Can't even handle people on streams talking about Hong Kong, and they want to talk about pride? It's more like exposing to the world to how sensitive and fragile your country is.
 

HugoLiu

Member
Oct 30, 2017
153
Reading posts for this incident as usual and and I saw user [S]leon9506[/S] banned for "banned (duration pending): denying the existence of an oppressive regime and atrocities over a series of posts "

This makes me sad as this person is only trying to give his/her own opinion on this, and as a chinese living in China, I would say 'chinese people under an oppressive regime' is controversial at best, I can also understand why people in the west think this is an undisputed fact which is another topic,but what if we are indeed not under oppressive regime? who will be the one to tell you this?

I for one, also dispprove Blizzard ban thier player for his opinion(while I also have different opinion), but mod of Era banning user with reason like this is no different then what Blizzard have done.
 

Masterspeed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,175
England
Surely this has to be Giantbombs Hottest Mess of 2019 right? This is off the chains for video game news. When politics get as heavily involved as this, shit always gets bad.
 

Space Madness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
422
I guess one thing that makes me uncomfortable is that the Hong Kong protest has a right wing nationalist bent to it, with pro U.S. (pro Trump!) signs showing up, Union Jacks getting hung from places, etc. Hong Kong is a pencil balanced on its tip. It's either going to fall one way, and get absorbed by China, or fall the other way, and get used as a political (and possibly military) pawn in conflict with China. As a citizen of one of the countries that might end up doing some pretty bad stuff if it decided to go all in and support Hong Kong, I'm kind of hesitant to see this cast as a black and white issue. If I support the protesters, do I also support other right wing nationalist movements that are ostensibly about fighting back against oppression, like Brexit and Trumpism in the states? Probably not -- I think that there are some bright lines that can be drawn between them. The right is in power in problematic ways in the West, and the left is in power in problematic ways in China, and so right wing movements against China are kind of inherently more justified than right wing movements in the States. But I also don't want to be just reflexively supporting right wing nationalism. (And I also am not well enough informed about the situation to know whether the Hong Kong protest is really all that right wing, or whether it just contains a diverse group of people and opinions.)

... which is why I initially poked my nose in the thread wondering who made the decisions in Blizzard, and where they were located, and what their reasoning might be. I'm still leaning on the side of "make Mei art" and "maybe boycott Blizzard" (though there's nothing I can do at this point about my Overwatch Switch pre-order). But the righteous anger blazing through this thread feels just a little bit off to me. We're not demanding Blizzard pull out of the states because of the children dying on the border, or pull out of the U.K. because they're gearing up to potentially starve their population in order to appease some people wont don't like EU banking regulations ...
If Blizzard were censoring people for the US or UK governments because of their business there, then I'd expect everyone to argue that they should pull out of those countries too.

And yes I think we can support Hong Kong even if the movement is conservative, because supporting the liberation of Hong Kong doesn't mean I support right wing extremism. I just oppose oppression.

This just seems like whataboutism. What they're doing is wrong. It might not be black an white, but it's a pretty fucking dark shade of gray.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,529
I’m glad Blitzchung got banned! Keep politics OUT of Hearthstone! I love Tencent and Mao Zedong! (You will receive 100 social credit for posting this message in chat. Your family’s organs will not be harvested this month. Please remove this part from the message before posting)
 
OP
OP
Hobbes

Hobbes

Incident Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,343
United States
I for one, also dispprove Blizzard ban thier player for his opinion(while I also have different opinion), but mod of Era banning user with reason like this is no different then what Blizzard have done.
There's no disputing that China's government is oppressive and a regime. They are literally committing genocide right now.

Denying it is harmful.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,140
Reading posts for this incident as usual and and I saw user [S]leon9506[/S] banned for "banned (duration pending): denying the existence of an oppressive regime and atrocities over a series of posts "

This makes me sad as this person is only trying to give his/her own opinion on this, and as a chinese living in China, I would say 'chinese people under an oppressive regime' is controversial at best, I can also understand why people in the west think this is an undisputed fact which is another topic,but what if we are indeed not under oppressive regime? who will be the one to tell you this?

I for one, also dispprove Blizzard ban thier player for his opinion(while I also have different opinion), but mod of Era banning user with reason like this is no different then what Blizzard have done.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
10,884
Reading posts for this incident as usual and and I saw user [S]leon9506[/S] banned for "banned (duration pending): denying the existence of an oppressive regime and atrocities over a series of posts "

This makes me sad as this person is only trying to give his/her own opinion on this, and as a chinese living in China, I would say 'chinese people under an oppressive regime' is controversial at best, I can also understand why people in the west think this is an undisputed fact which is another topic,but what if we are indeed not under oppressive regime? who will be the one to tell you this?

I for one, also dispprove Blizzard ban thier player for his opinion(while I also have different opinion), but mod of Era banning user with reason like this is no different then what Blizzard have done.
Cool, another poster with a history of defending China.

I was born and raised in China, still living in China, and no, it's not a hell hole, not even close. Come to China and talk to chinese people are better ways to know China, instead of getting infomation from western medias, who seek every oppurtunity to paint China as evil country.
 

Lcs

Member
Aug 9, 2018
118
as a chinese living in China, I would say 'chinese people under an oppressive regime' is controversial at best
I'm sorry to single you out like this, but can you go right now to whatever social media site you guys use and start posting stuff about tiananmen square, Xi Jinping Pooh Bear memes or openly organize protests against the treatment of uyghurs?

If you don't feel comfortable or safe doing any of those things, than you live in an oppressive regime.
 

Sothen

Member
Dec 15, 2017
543
Surely this has to be Giantbombs Hottest Mess of 2019 right? This is off the chains for video game news. When politics get as heavily involved as this, shit always gets bad.
Their takes on this issue on the Bombcast yesterday were disappointingly lukewarm. Brad's announcement of the news was answered by a minute of silence followed by a weird take by Gerstmann who almost but didn't quite equate people who are criticizing this with people bitching about the Epic Store because of Tencent. Then everyone shrugged and said Blizz probably won't do anything about it.

I hope the Beastcast has a better take on this issue because the Bombcast didn't really call out Blizzard's kowtowing to the CCP or talk about the human rights issue in Hong Kong in the context of the story much at all.
 

Space Madness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
422
I would say 'chinese people under an oppressive regime' is controversial at best, I can also understand why people in the west think this is an undisputed fact which is another topic,but what if we are indeed not under oppressive regime? who will be the one to tell you this?
The families of the people who've disappeared after criticizing the chinese government. They'd have to come forward and all admit to lying. The Uighurs would have tell us this after coming back from concentration camps. The social credit system would have to go away. So would the censors and state run social media.

Honestly, there's too much evidence of oppression for this to be hearsay.
 

Masterspeed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,175
England
Their takes on this issue on the Bombcast yesterday were disappointingly lukewarm. Brad's announcement of the news was answered by a minute of silence followed by a weird take by Gerstmann who almost but didn't quite equate people who are criticizing this with people bitching about the Epic Store because of Tencent. Then everyone shrugged and said Blizz probably won't do anything about it.

I hope the Beastcast has a better take on this issue because the Bombcast didn't really call out Blizzard's kowtowing to the CCP or talk about the human rights issue in Hong Kong in the context of the story much at all.
I agree sadly. They could of said so much more. When it comes to the GOTY videos they really do get into the grit of this stuff. Hopefully they don't hold back when It comes to it. It's going to be a long episode.
 

Devilgunman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,769
It's a sad reality we live in. Every large company will choose Chinese money over human right. NBA and Blizzard got backlash because they took action. What about other big businesses that have been silent? Go ask their CEO what they think of Hong Kong protest and all you get is "no comment." If you're going to boycott, boycott those who are silent too.
 
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Zen

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,742
It's a sad reality we live in. Every large company will choose Chinese money over human right. NBA and Blizzard got backlash because they took action. What about other big businesses that have been silent? Go ask their CEO what they think of Hong Kong protest and all you get is "no commend." If you're going to boycott, boycott those who are silent too.
You do what you can, when you can. It isn't all or nothing.
 

Juryvicious

Member
Oct 28, 2017
706
Well, I've canceled both my WOW accounts as of today. I'll reconsider once Blizzard changes their tune.
 

KeRaSh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,482
Reading posts for this incident as usual and and I saw user [S]leon9506[/S] banned for "banned (duration pending): denying the existence of an oppressive regime and atrocities over a series of posts "

This makes me sad as this person is only trying to give his/her own opinion on this, and as a chinese living in China, I would say 'chinese people under an oppressive regime' is controversial at best, I can also understand why people in the west think this is an undisputed fact which is another topic,but what if we are indeed not under oppressive regime? who will be the one to tell you this?

I for one, also dispprove Blizzard ban thier player for his opinion(while I also have different opinion), but mod of Era banning user with reason like this is no different then what Blizzard have done.
And why would you say anything different? Oh right, if you actually spoke up against your country you could face serious consequences. That's not normal.
We had a similar situation in Germany. I'd love to hear your take on that.
 

Zomba13

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,912
Surely this has to be Giantbombs Hottest Mess of 2019 right? This is off the chains for video game news. When politics get as heavily involved as this, shit always gets bad.
Did this happen before or after this weeks podcast was recorded? I want to hear them discuss it. I expect it'll be mentioned on the Beastcast this week with Dan being confused by what is going on and how Hong Kong and China are related and how to relate this to Metal Gear.
 

MillionStabs

Member
Jan 11, 2018
292
Reading posts for this incident as usual and and I saw user [S]leon9506[/S] banned for "banned (duration pending): denying the existence of an oppressive regime and atrocities over a series of posts "

This makes me sad as this person is only trying to give his/her own opinion on this, and as a chinese living in China, I would say 'chinese people under an oppressive regime' is controversial at best, I can also understand why people in the west think this is an undisputed fact which is another topic,but what if we are indeed not under oppressive regime? who will be the one to tell you this?

I for one, also dispprove Blizzard ban thier player for his opinion(while I also have different opinion), but mod of Era banning user with reason like this is no different then what Blizzard have done.
I respect your opinion, and I just want to ask this: Do you think maybe lots of Chinese people just don't know they're living under a regime? In Western countries, personal freedom is the most important thing to our nations (America especially, "give me liberty or give me death").
From what I've heard from my Chinese professors, they acknowledge the limitations of the country, like how VPNS are almost required and they can't teach about *certain* things in school, but they don't seem unhappy with their country or their leaders. I.e the 习大大 thing

They just accept it as part of life and don't question it. I don't want to misrepresent Chinese people as most Chinese people I've met never discuss politics, but that's the impression I personally got
 

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,387
Madrid
Reading posts for this incident as usual and and I saw user [S]leon9506[/S] banned for "banned (duration pending): denying the existence of an oppressive regime and atrocities over a series of posts "

This makes me sad as this person is only trying to give his/her own opinion on this, and as a chinese living in China, I would say 'chinese people under an oppressive regime' is controversial at best, I can also understand why people in the west think this is an undisputed fact which is another topic,but what if we are indeed not under oppressive regime? who will be the one to tell you this?

I for one, also dispprove Blizzard ban thier player for his opinion(while I also have different opinion), but mod of Era banning user with reason like this is no different then what Blizzard have done.
I can't get over the side-splitting hypocrisy of being "sad" at Era's moderators culling obvious regime mouthpieces while also handwaving the Chinese government censoring... well, pretty much any and everything. :D

This reminds me of the time a right-wing party was booed right out of the Pride Parade here in Spain, then took to the social networks to call paraders doing so "intolerant". Good times... :D

as most Chinese people I've met never discuss politics
Gee, can't imagine why...

And now I'm reminded in turn of an old Spanish joke:
- How's things in Cuba?
- Well, we can't complain.
- So, not bad then?
- No, I mean we can't complain.
 

Jroc

Member
Jun 9, 2018
996
People in the west have this false idea that people in China are repressed and hate their system of government.

This isn't like the Eastern Bloc where most citizens knew Communism wasn't working and that their governments were fairly inept. The Chinese will stand by the CPC as long as they keep the economy moving forward. Even if economic downturn starts to hit, the CPC has earned 30+ years of undying goodwill to help ride it out. Contrast that with the Soviet Union where the country was crumbling by the 1980s.

For the average Chinese person who is doing well (key word: doing better than they were in the past), why would they ever want to change things? Many of these people think that the concept of a liberal democracy is a joke. "Why would I ever want the freedom to say whatever I want and potentially rock the boat?" "Why would I want random people to run and be elected when the meritocratic CPC never screws up?" "Why would I want to promote art that damages the face of my country?". Instead of using whataboutism to detract from the negatives, the negatives themselves have now become positives.

I honestly find it a bit of a terrifying irreconcilable difference when talking with certain international students here in Canada.
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,908
do we have any idea of how many subscriptions/population they have lost because of this?
 

Zen

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,742
People in the west have this false idea that people in China are repressed and hate their system of government.

This isn't like the Eastern Bloc where most citizens knew Communism wasn't working and that their governments were fairly inept. The Chinese will stand by the CPC as long as they keep the economy moving forward. Even if economic downturn starts to hit, the CPC has earned 30+ years of undying goodwill to help ride it out. Contrast that with the Soviet Union where the country was crumbling by the 1980s.

For the average Chinese person who is doing well (key word: doing better than they were in the past), why would they ever want to change things? Many of these people think that the concept of a liberal democracy is a joke. "Why would I ever want the freedom to say whatever I want and potentially rock the boat?" "Why would I want random people to run and be elected when the meritocratic CPC never screws up?" "Why would I want to promote art that damages the face of my country?". Instead of using whataboutism to detract from the negatives, the negatives themselves have now become positives.

I honestly find it a bit of a terrifying irreconcilable difference when talking with certain international students here in Canada.
It's scary to think about and experience. It goes beyond simply having a difference of perspective and into brainwashing and a skewed moral compass.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,191
do we have any idea of how many subscriptions/population they have lost because of this?
We would never know that. All we know is that they might just have the worst public image in gaming and that is quite a feet considering the competition. It will diminish them. They don't produce good enough product to counter this kind of dark negativity.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,140
People in the west have this false idea that people in China are repressed and hate their system of government.

This isn't like the Eastern Bloc where most citizens knew Communism wasn't working and that their governments were fairly inept. The Chinese will stand by the CPC as long as they keep the economy moving forward. Even if economic downturn starts to hit, the CPC has earned 30+ years of undying goodwill to help ride it out. Contrast that with the Soviet Union where the country was crumbling by the 1980s.

For the average Chinese person who is doing well (key word: doing better than they were in the past), why would they ever want to wil change things? Many of these people think that the concept of a liberal democracy is a joke. "Why would I ever want the freedom to say whatever I want and potentially rock the boat?" "Why would I want random people to run and be elected when the meritocratic CPC never screws up?" "Why would I want to promote art that damages the face of my country?". Instead of using whataboutism to detract from the negatives, the negatives themselves have now become positives.

I honestly find it a bit of a terrifying irreconcilable difference when talking with certain international students here in Canada.
but this way of thinking is unsustainable, sooner or later they will be the one the government will crack down.