Blizzard has removed Hong Kong Hearthstone player blitzchung from Hearthstone Grand Masters and rescinded all his prize money

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Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
20,293
DFW, Texas
why should they incur in losses to follow your moral code?

it's easy to tell people to do the right thing when we don't have actually anything at stake and just have to ask other people to take the hit for the greater good.
covering for the losses they could have from making an enemy out of the ban happy chinese govt would be a way to spread the consequences more evenly.
Are you being serious? Or is this a parody post. Please be a parody post.



EDIT: Of fucking course its not. What the fuck people.
 

Majukun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,108
I hope you at least are getting nice dividends from your Activision shares if you are going to take this position.
i'm getting nothing, that's exactly the point.

from a moral stanpoint i'm all for the protester and i dont even play actibliz (only one was hearhthstone but i stopped playing it a while ago) game so i don't even have particular feelings for their financial state..

but i also recognize that since i don't have anything at stake, i don't really have a voice in the whole matter, i would be just a guy pointing the virtual finger from behind my pc asking them to do the right thing while i continue doing nothing other than point my finger.

if im not willing to lose money for a cause i believe in, why should someone else be willing to lose money for a cause they don't (because they clearly don't)?
 

inguef

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,629
why should they incur in losses to follow your moral code?

it's easy to tell people to do the right thing when we don't have actually anything at stake and just have to ask other people to take the hit for the greater good.
covering for the losses they could have from making an enemy out of the ban happy chinese govt would be a way to spread the consequences more evenly.
Go to sleep
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,547
it's less about thinking of the shareholders, and realizing that it's really easy to tell people to do something when we dont actually have to do nothing ourselves or suffer any consequences at all. we just tell people to do stuff and hit the loss for the greater good, sounds kind of convenient
THEY ARE A COMPANY. They do not have feelings or get punished, they won't even lose money, they'll simply earn SMALLER mountains of money.

Me not playing any of their games is more of a fucking loss than Bobby Kotick getting a smaller bonus, so fuck this nonsense stance of yours. (And in case it's not obvious, it's barely a loss there either, the real loss are, perhaps, the people fucking dying, being deported, simply disappearing, etc over in god damn China and Hong Kong).

i'm getting nothing, that's exactly the point.

from a moral stanpoint i'm all for the protester and i dont even play actibliz (only one was hearhthstone but i stopped playing it a while ago) game so i don't even have particular feelings for their financial state..

but i also recognize that since i don't have anything at stake, i don't really have a voice in the whole matter, i would be just a guy pointing the virtual finger from behind my pc asking them to do the right thing while i continue doing nothing other than point my finger.

if im not willing to lose money for a cause i believe in, why should someone else be willing to lose money for a cause they don't (because they clearly don't)?
They're NOT LOSING MONEY. THEY ARE ACTUALIZING LESS PROFIT. THESE ARE NOT THE SAME CONCEPT.

More importantly, even if they were, we're talking about literal billionaires losing some potential profit to save human fucking lives. So fuck off.
 

Nihm

Member
Jun 7, 2019
95
It's easy to be cynical about Sweeney, but no other executives are saying anything, let alone something supporting free speech. Good on him as far as I'm concerned.

Regarding his comments about % shares- yeah that's fine, but one day his shares will be sold by him or his heirs. At that point Tencent will own Epic, and that's why I'm not interested in building a library of games with them.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,217
Oh no, the multi billon dollar company might be worth less (but still billions) by not caving into China.

Won't someone think of the bottom line?
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,547
It's easy to be cynical about Sweeney, but no other executives are saying anything, let alone something supporting free speech. Good on him as far as I'm concerned.

Regarding his comments about % shares- yeah that's fine, but one day his shares will be sold by him or his heirs. At that point Tencent will own Epic, and that's why I'm not interested in building a library of games with them.
By that logic every single company out there, including Valve, will be owned by Tencent someday (Gaben's beneficiaries will cash the company out or some other nonsense).

The sooner we push for this shit to get at least somewhat regulated, if not solved, the less likely that becomes too.
 

Nihm

Member
Jun 7, 2019
95
By that logic every single company out there, including Valve, will be owned by Tencent someday (Gaben's beneficiaries will cash the company out or some other nonsense).

The sooner we push for this shit to get at least somewhat regulated, if not solved, the less likely that becomes too.
Huh? Tencent owns 40% of Epic. That's my logic. I'm concerned they'll increase their stake by 10.1% one way or another in the near future, or leverage their current stake in ways I don't approve.

I'm not concerned about them buying every tech company in existence.
 

fanboi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,099
Sweden
Kibler being the top guy which he conveys via his Stream...

Thijs, which I follow and like... dissapointed :(

I mean, Heartstone is a downwards trending game, and a lot of the streamers is trying to move to other games as well and this was a great oppurtunity to do just that.
 

fanboi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,099
Sweden
Huh? Tencent owns 40% of Epic. That's my logic. I'm concerned they'll increase their stake by 10.1% one way or another in the near future, or leverage their current stake in ways I don't approve.

I'm not concerned about them buying every tech company in existence.
That would mean that Tim Sweeny himself need to sell shares for that to happen, which I don't think will happen (more that he want to buy back due to his quite clear stance towards China).
 

Bregor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
462
i'm getting nothing, that's exactly the point.

from a moral stanpoint i'm all for the protester and i dont even play actibliz (only one was hearhthstone but i stopped playing it a while ago) game so i don't even have particular feelings for their financial state..

but i also recognize that since i don't have anything at stake, i don't really have a voice in the whole matter, i would be just a guy pointing the virtual finger from behind my pc asking them to do the right thing while i continue doing nothing other than point my finger.

if im not willing to lose money for a cause i believe in, why should someone else be willing to lose money for a cause they don't (because they clearly don't)?
I understand the idea behind your position, but I think it is based upon the flawed premise that those protesting Blizzards actions are causing the company to lose money. They are not - they are simply refusing to consume the product Blizzard produces. In the capitalist system, companies have a great deal of power, and one of the only levers that consumers have is refusing to buy the product. That's the deal - they devise the product and set the price, we choose whether or not to buy it. And we have every right to make moral or political factors one of the criteria in that choice. Blizzard has no reason to take their fans business for granted.
 

fanboi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,099
Sweden
To add to Thijs, sure I can understand not putting your livelihood on the line... but outright banning and actively suppressing (a la China) people supporting HK is harmful and awful.
 
Feb 24, 2018
1,064
The caster are in Taiwan. I think theyre safe. One of them had a twitch stream where he say this firing fucked him up financially tho.
Everything about that aspect of this baffles me the most, what was Blizzard trying to accomplish doing that? How did they expect that not to bite them in the arse? Why punish people who couldn't have done anything? Even days later it still makes less and less sense to me.
 

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,529
Huh? Tencent owns 40% of Epic. That's my logic. I'm concerned they'll increase their stake by 10.1% one way or another in the near future, or leverage their current stake in ways I don't approve.
That's not possible. That's why Tim can say this, he is under no pressure, at all. Tencent can't do shit despite owning 40%.
 

Nihm

Member
Jun 7, 2019
95
That would mean that Tim Sweeny himself need to sell shares for that to happen, which I don't think will happen (more that he want to buy back due to his quite clear stance towards China).
It he bought his shares back or Tencent sold it's stake, I'd reconsider building a library on the Epic store. I don't hate or resent China, I just don't want my games/media managed by them.
 

fanboi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,099
Sweden
It he bought his shares back or Tencent sold it's stake, I'd reconsider building a library on the Epic store. I don't hate or resent China, I just don't want my games/media managed by them.
I mean, Valve did similiar things during Dota tournaments where people was banned or post removed for comments against China.
 
Feb 24, 2018
1,064
Why was the other thread closed?
Just saw that as well, odd because mods usually add a last comment to the thread before closing explaining why? Maybe they felt their were too many on the same subject I guess or they thought posting on wiki vandalization crossed a line? I don't know.

edit: Just noticed they did update it during writing this post, it was that their were too many threads.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,547
Huh? Tencent owns 40% of Epic. That's my logic. I'm concerned they'll increase their stake by 10.1% one way or another in the near future, or leverage their current stake in ways I don't approve.

I'm not concerned about them buying every tech company in existence.
And what I'm saying is, it's just as likely as Valve opening up an IPO and Tencent buying 51% of them. Or any other company. He's not like, hoping it doesn't happen, he personally controls it. It's a weird boogeyman stance to take considering we have no reason to believe it will happen, just like I don't believe Gabe will suddenly give his control of Valve away.
 

fanboi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,099
Sweden
Honestly dude I just try to make reasonably informed purchases/votes/decisions with the knowledge I have at the time.
That is fine, and now you know that Valve is also bending over for China, what you then do with that informaiton is up to you, and I won't judge if you buy games from Steam or EGS (which I will continue doing just due to the nature of the digital marketplace where Steam is near monopoly, but with a growing EGS, if Tim keep his word to stand against China pressure, is good).

EDIT: To add, it is incresingly hard to make good decisions and purchases due to the nature how things consolidate.
 
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Nihm

Member
Jun 7, 2019
95
And what I'm saying is, it's just as likely as Valve opening up an IPO and Tencent buying 51% of them. Or any other company. He's not like, hoping it doesn't happen, he personally controls it. It's a weird boogeyman stance to take considering we have no reason to believe it will happen, just like I don't believe Gabe will suddenly give his control of Valve away.
I'm sorry but Sweeney or his heirs selling more of their stake to the next biggest shareholder is more likely than some hypothetical IPO where Tencent manages to get a 51% stake. Tencent would obviously pay more for that 10.1% than any other potential shareholder. But whatever, call it a 'weird boogeyman stance' if you like i guess.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,903
why should they incur in losses to follow your moral code?

it's easy to tell people to do the right thing when we don't have actually anything at stake and just have to ask other people to take the hit for the greater good.
covering for the losses they could have from making an enemy out of the ban happy chinese govt would be a way to spread the consequences more evenly.
So your stance is basically that crossing ethical and moral boundaries is fine as long as you profit?

You should maybe think this over before making this your final position on this matter, because you sound like a cartoon villain.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,547
I'm sorry but Sweeney or his heirs selling more of their stake to the next biggest shareholder is more likely than some hypothetical IPO where Tencent manages to get a 51% stake. Tencent would obviously pay more for that 10.1% than any other potential shareholder. But whatever, call it a 'weird boogeyman stance' if you like i guess.
They're both rubbish, there's no reason to possibly believe it's happening any time while Tim is alive, and once you get to him not being alive it becomes just as likely as it happening anywhere else. It's the most ridiculous example of launcherwars2019 I can even possibly imagine, trying to spin that quote as something negative because in some hypothetical future, Tencent could own the company (Just like they HYPOTHETICALLY could own any other company in the future too).
 

Claven

Game Localization
Verified
Aug 22, 2018
3,332
Taliesin has been an Blizzard apologist/defender for a long time now, even when others turned against the current expansion he made excuse after excuse for everything and did so in a rather smarmy way. I went from enjoying their content to seeing him as some shill. Kinda like how Blizzard Watch won't allow any criticism, which I suppose paid off as the guy in charge there just got a job at.........Blizzard.
Exactly, I really don't expect T&E to be anything more than Blizzard PR.
 

fanboi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,099
Sweden
So your stance is basically that crossing ethical and moral boundaries is fine as long as you profit?

You should maybe think this over before making this your final position on this matter, because you sound like a cartoon villain.
Totally random, but I called my kid a cartoon villain today when she was trying to hide that she had changes her sweather by putting the outdoor jacket on real quick :D

So no I am laughing.
 

Nihm

Member
Jun 7, 2019
95
They're both rubbish, there's no reason to possibly believe it's happening any time while Tim is alive, and once you get to him not being alive it becomes just as likely as it happening anywhere else.
Sorry but that's not true. The company is private, and if Tim or his heirs wanted to sell shares, those shares would be most valuable to and thus fetch the greatest price from Tencent. That's fine if you want to defends Tim's honor, but it's a simple fact that a 10.1% stake is far more valuable to Tencent than any other single private investor.

You think his heirs would rather go to all the trouble of a fucking IPO rather than just sell to Tencent? Like why am I even arguing this with you. I apologize for the derail.
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,434
i'm getting nothing, that's exactly the point.

from a moral stanpoint i'm all for the protester and i dont even play actibliz (only one was hearhthstone but i stopped playing it a while ago) game so i don't even have particular feelings for their financial state..

but i also recognize that since i don't have anything at stake, i don't really have a voice in the whole matter, i would be just a guy pointing the virtual finger from behind my pc asking them to do the right thing while i continue doing nothing other than point my finger.

if im not willing to lose money for a cause i believe in, why should someone else be willing to lose money for a cause they don't (because they clearly don't)?
By this logic, the only people who can ever voice any criticism whatsoever, however slight, are those who own their own multi-million dollar companies.

Which might be peak fucking capitalism right there.
 
Mar 26, 2019
181
It's just so strange that all this happened.

I could see how Blizz would want a "non-political" environment and wag their finger while slapping on a small fine, but they went full purge on this.
No warning, no second chances just straight up purged him, took his money, removed him from the grand masters and fired those casters.
There been plenty of content creators under Blizzard that said some dumb stuff and they only get a slap on the wrist, this dude and his friend was snatched up in the night and never seen again.
 

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,694
United Kingdom
To add to Thijs, sure I can understand not putting your livelihood on the line... but outright banning and actively suppressing (a la China) people supporting HK is harmful and awful.
I like Thijs but he's always been a bit of a coward and it feels like he's lived a sheltered life. There's no excuse for banning people from his channel, not going to watch him until that stops.
 

Keyser S

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,385
Checked back into Thijs' stream, and people are allowed to post Hong Kong and China now it seems, and it looks like no bans are happening. But chat is in rK9 mode - which is a mode to stop the same person from posting the same messages more than once. Probably a good option, but also something that I believe was never regularly used on the channel (which is always a spamfest) until today.
 

CrazyAndy

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,071
Thijs or any other streamer are not the issue here. People should be mad at Blizzard and Blizzard only. People can't just spam their messages in people's channels who have nothing do to with this situation. They are simple trying to do their job and these people make it kind of impossible for them to do it. You can't expect everyone to comment on this issue.

Kibler said:
However, I want to make clear that not everyone involved in GM has this luxury. Do not take your anger out on the other casters, or streamers, or employees of Blizzard. This is not the kind of decision that comes from the rank and file. Most likely they’re just as angry as you are. I know I am.
Kibler had this luxury. Many others don't. People can't expect from simple streamers to basically give up their current life.
 

Thorrgal

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,036
Huh? Tencent owns 40% of Epic. That's my logic. I'm concerned they'll increase their stake by 10.1% one way or another in the near future, or leverage their current stake in ways I don't approve.

I'm not concerned about them buying every tech company in existence.
Lol and how would they do that if Tim doesn't want to sell?

Guys, this is NOT on Tencent, it's 100% on Activision/Blizzard
 

Militaratus

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,012
Doing my part by reporting blatant World of Warcraft advertising on ResetEra. Such a scummy move of Activision Blizzard by trying to capitalize on the public outrage of their public support of the Chinese Regime.
 

Majukun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,108
By this logic, the only people who can ever voice any criticism whatsoever, however slight, are those who own their own multi-million dollar companies.

Which might be peak fucking capitalism right there.
No, the people that can complain are the one that are ready to do what they ask other people (or companies) to do for them. Otherwise it just sounds really convenient, you go take the loss while I stay here and do nothing at all. ain't the right thing to do really easy to do.

And it's not even like you have to pay the money to actually complain, mine was just an hypothetical question, if people would be OK with using some of their money to make blizzard do the right thing.

Anyway, I got my answer.
 

Majukun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,108
So your stance is basically that crossing ethical and moral boundaries is fine as long as you profit?

You should maybe think this over before making this your final position on this matter, because you sound like a cartoon villain.
No, my point is that if you are asking a company, or anyone really, to do something, you should be willing to do the same thing.
If you are not willing to put some of your money on the table to support the hk protesters, why should a company put their future profits on the table and follow the moral compass ?

It's not even a problem of being able to complain or not since it's not like actibliz is gonna ask people for money, mine was an hypothetical question, if those asking them to take the hit would be OK with taking part of the hit too for the good cause.

The answer apparently is no. Personally I just think it's kind of a convenient stance to have
 

Majukun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,108
I understand the idea behind your position, but I think it is based upon the flawed premise that those protesting Blizzards actions are causing the company to lose money. They are not - they are simply refusing to consume the product Blizzard produces. In the capitalist system, companies have a great deal of power, and one of the only levers that consumers have is refusing to buy the product. That's the deal - they devise the product and set the price, we choose whether or not to buy it. And we have every right to make moral or political factors one of the criteria in that choice. Blizzard has no reason to take their fans business for granted.
The loss I'm talking about is not about boycotting blizzard, that I can totally get behind, I'm all for voting with your wallet no matter the motivation behind it.

I'm talking about making an enemy of the Chinese govt by making that kind of statements fine. The Chinese regime has shown multiple times that are more than willing to straight up ban something from China entirely if they don't fancy it. So at this point you are asking actibliz to straight up kill a market, a sizeable one at that, while you stay in front of the pc doing nothing, not even willing of putting some of your money on the line for the same cause.

Again, it just sounds like a really convenient stance to have.

And also, like I said, mine was a rethorical question, since it's not like blizzard is gonna start an indie gogo campaign to cover the loss or something, but more to understand if all those people complaining, would also be willing to out their money where their mouth is.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,903
No, my point is that if you are asking a company, or anyone really, to do something, you should be willing to do the same thing.
If you are not willing to put some of your money on the table to support the hk protesters, why should a company put their future profits on the table and follow the moral compass ?

It's not even a problem of being able to complain or not since it's not like actibliz is gonna ask people for money, mine was an hypothetical question, if those asking them to take the hit would be OK with taking part of the hit too for the good cause.

The answer apparently is no. Personally I just think it's kind of a convenient stance to have
The thing is that they don't even have to support the protesters. They just don't have to actively punish people who do. Because that is the same as taking a side in the matter.
 

Doukou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,958
The loss I'm talking about is not about boycotting blizzard, that I can totally get behind, I'm all for voting with your wallet no matter the motivation behind it.

I'm talking about making an enemy of the Chinese govt by making that kind of statements fine. The Chinese regime has shown multiple times that are more than willing to straight up ban something from China entirely if they don't fancy it. So at this point you are asking actibliz to straight up kill a market, a sizeable one at that, while you stay in front of the pc doing nothing, not even willing of putting some of your money on the line for the same cause.

Again, it just sounds like a really convenient stance to have.

And also, like I said, mine was a rethorical question, since it's not like blizzard is gonna start an indie gogo campaign to cover the loss or something, but more to understand if all those people complaining, would also be willing to out their money where their mouth is.
Your logic is flawed though. Let’s flip it to the opposite. If fans should have to give up money for Blizzard then the opposite would be that Blizzard should give money to fans if they wish to stay since they get more money.

It was Activision/Blizzard decision to enter the market and censorship, fans shouldn’t have to pay for fallout of a decision that didn’t involve them.
 

Bregor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
462
The loss I'm talking about is not about boycotting blizzard, that I can totally get behind, I'm all for voting with your wallet no matter the motivation behind it.

I'm talking about making an enemy of the Chinese govt by making that kind of statements fine. The Chinese regime has shown multiple times that are more than willing to straight up ban something from China entirely if they don't fancy it. So at this point you are asking actibliz to straight up kill a market, a sizeable one at that, while you stay in front of the pc doing nothing, not even willing of putting some of your money on the line for the same cause.

Again, it just sounds like a really convenient stance to have.

And also, like I said, mine was a rethorical question, since it's not like blizzard is gonna start an indie gogo campaign to cover the loss or something, but more to understand if all those people complaining, would also be willing to out their money where their mouth is.
If the price of keeping the Chinese government content is to remain silent on political or moral issues that are important to the consumer, than Blizzard is expecting to much of the buyer. And to be honest, the same goes for employees, who shouldn't have to abandon their principles in order to keep a job. Even if society has traditionally maintained that a company has sole discretion on the behavior of their employees, I feel that their are circumstances where such power should not apply.
 

Mr. Pointy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,097
I'm curious. If Blizzard banned a HK player and fired two casters, say, 1 month ago instead of now, would the reaction been as big? Is the reaction to Blizzard's fuck up magnified by the NBA fuck up and the South Park episode?
 
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