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Blizzard has removed Hong Kong Hearthstone player blitzchung from Hearthstone Grand Masters and rescinded all his prize money

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Neithardt

Banned
May 22, 2019
68
I'm curious. If Blizzard banned a HK player and fired two casters, say, 1 month ago instead of now, would the reaction been as big? Is the reaction to Blizzard's fuck up magnified by the NBA fuck up and the South Park episode?
The NBA tried to backtrack. Blizzard is upping the ante. That’s the difference between the two.
 

TatteredHat

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,085
I'm curious. If Blizzard banned a HK player and fired two casters, say, 1 month ago instead of now, would the reaction been as big? Is the reaction to Blizzard's fuck up magnified by the NBA fuck up and the South Park episode?
Can't speak for anyone else, but for me it wouldn't be any different. I only heard about the NBA and South Park after.
 

Majukun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,033
The thing is that they don't even have to support the protesters. They just don't have to actively punish people who do. Because that is the same as taking a side in the matter.
even allowing people to do it is taking a stance, or at least it is for the chinese govt given how they react around this kind of matters, it's not the first time that we have something like this happen...didn't trump get in trouble with the chinese govt at the start of his mandate because he acccepted the governor's of honk kong congratulations or something?

they have a rule in place, a general one, that prohibits offensive and or political statement during interviews, they are enforcing that and punish him because of that, not just because it's about the hk protest.

even the guy that got punished said that he knew what he was going to happpen when he did it.
 

Majukun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,033
Your logic is flawed though. Let’s flip it to the opposite. If fans should have to give up money for Blizzard then the opposite would be that Blizzard should give money to fans if they wish to stay since they get more money.

It was Activision/Blizzard decision to enter the market and censorship, fans shouldn’t have to pay for fallout of a decision that didn’t involve them.
customers are not losing money nor profits just with bliz staying in a non-antagonistic relationship with the chinese govt. blizzard would lose a sizeable chunk of profit in reverse though.

also it's not really a matter to "have to", because if we go the technical route, no one HAS to do anything. blizzard doesnt have to allow political statements during official interviews, customers don't have to buy blizzard products anymore if thay don't want to.
 

KeRaSh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,528
The loss I'm talking about is not about boycotting blizzard, that I can totally get behind, I'm all for voting with your wallet no matter the motivation behind it.

I'm talking about making an enemy of the Chinese govt by making that kind of statements fine. The Chinese regime has shown multiple times that are more than willing to straight up ban something from China entirely if they don't fancy it. So at this point you are asking actibliz to straight up kill a market, a sizeable one at that, while you stay in front of the pc doing nothing, not even willing of putting some of your money on the line for the same cause.

Again, it just sounds like a really convenient stance to have.

And also, like I said, mine was a rethorical question, since it's not like blizzard is gonna start an indie gogo campaign to cover the loss or something, but more to understand if all those people complaining, would also be willing to out their money where their mouth is.
Come on. Get the fuck out of here with your ridiculous stance that people have to pay up to be able to criticize a company for bowing down to a regime that rounds up people in camps, kills them and harvests their organs (not necessarily in that order!).
This is not about profits. It's about taking a stance for human rights. If a company is OK with a country violating these rights then everyone without exception should be able to point that shit out and demand a change.
Company profits do not trump human rights.

didn't trump get in trouble with the chinese govt at the start of his mandate because he acccepted the governor's of honk kong congratulations or something?
I believe that was Taiwan.
 

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,575
Madrid
Kibler being the top guy which he conveys via his Stream...

Thijs, which I follow and like... dissapointed :(

I mean, Heartstone is a downwards trending game, and a lot of the streamers is trying to move to other games as well and this was a great oppurtunity to do just that.
I think this is going to hit Blizzard the hardest. Not necessarily boycotts from paying customers (although that has a potential to be damaging too considering how viral this has become), but streamers leaving them en masse and seriously bringing their visibility down.
 

Majukun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,033
Come on. Get the fuck out of here with your ridiculous stance that people have to pay up to be able to criticize a company for bowing down to a regime that rounds up people in camps, kills them and harvests their organs (not necessarily in that order!).
This is not about profits. It's about taking a stance for human rights. If a company is OK with a country violating these rights then everyone without exception should be able to point that shit out and demand a change.
Company profits do not trump human rights.



I believe that was Taiwan.
if taking a stance for human rights is that important, why are you not willing to put your money on the line then?
if taking a stance is that important, why are you not taking a stance and instead criticizing someone else for not taking it?

if the answer is "well i don't have to", well it's probably the same answer the ceo of blizzard gave to himself too.

anyway, we are going in circles here, i just asked a question and i got plenty of answers at this point
 

Vommy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
502
Blizzard really fucked this one up royaly. This Blizzcon was such a important event for them even without the trouble they are in right now since the last one missed the mark by a mile. With the newest events unfolding this Blizzcon could be a total desaster for them.
I'm happy to see the reaction of the customers and media towards their behavior and I never felt so good deleting games from a company as this one.
 

fanboi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,795
Sweden
if taking a stance for human rights is that important, why are you not willing to put your money on the line then?
if taking a stance is that important, why are you not taking a stance and instead criticizing someone else for not taking it?

if the answer is "well i don't have to", well it's probably the same answer the ceo of blizzard gave to himself too.

anyway, we are going in circles here, i just asked a question and i got plenty of answers at this point
 

KeRaSh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,528
if taking a stance for human rights is that important, why are you not willing to put your money on the line then?
if taking a stance is that important, why are you not taking a stance and instead criticizing someone else for not taking it?

if the answer is "well i don't have to", well it's probably the same answer the ceo of blizzard gave to himself too.

anyway, we are going in circles here, i just asked a question and i got plenty of answers at this point
Not sure if you're concern trolling or gate keeping poor people from criticizing companies for bowing down to China... It seems like you're doing both, mate.

How the hell do you know whether I or anyone else here is not already putting their money where their mouth is?
Are people who can't afford to donate money to these causes not allowed to criticize companies for supporting countries that violate human rights?
 
Sep 4, 2019
1,528
New Orleans
I would be embarrassed if I was working for Blizzard right now. Working for a company giving in to a Communists country? Holy cow, I would be scared to get fired because I likely couldn't hold back my opinions when going to work.
 

Keyser S

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,363
if taking a stance for human rights is that important, why are you not willing to put your money on the line then?
if taking a stance is that important, why are you not taking a stance and instead criticizing someone else for not taking it?

if the answer is "well i don't have to", well it's probably the same answer the ceo of blizzard gave to himself too.

anyway, we are going in circles here, i just asked a question and i got plenty of answers at this point
Your posts make me feel like you recently took a class that is adjacent to the subjects at hand and are just spouting those topics verbatim without any reference to real world situations. There is a human element to everything, and people approach things in different ways. You feel cold, and seemingly expect every situation to have a formula to solve, resulting in a definite answer, and it incredibly off-putting.
 

Majukun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,033
Hate to break it to ya, people can hold multiple positions on similar issues based on context and the efforts required. Not buying some video game shits from one company are very easy. So I'm doing it
you should at least read the whole conversation before just answering one though.
i didn't say a thing about not buying bilzz products, in fact i'm a fan of voting with your wallets, for wahtever reason really you are free to decide what to buy and who to support, it's your money after all.

the entire thing was about people asking blizzard to completely compromise their relationship with the chinese govt and losing a lot of profit in the process by allowing statements like the one made in that interview to exist.
i asked if they were willing to put money on the line for the good cause much like they were asking blizzard to do.

got plenty of answers.

now i'm suddenly gatekeeping poor people apparently, even though how much money was never the point to begin with.

as i said, made my question, got my answer
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,921
I'm curious. If Blizzard banned a HK player and fired two casters, say, 1 month ago instead of now, would the reaction been as big? Is the reaction to Blizzard's fuck up magnified by the NBA fuck up and the South Park episode?
Timing always matter, but it's also the magnitude of Blizzard's reaction that's causing the uproar. If it was a token fine or a short suspension people would probably be more "oh well, china gonna china", but the fact that it's full scorched earth is making people really take notice.
 

crazyfunster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,722
I'm curious. If Blizzard banned a HK player and fired two casters, say, 1 month ago instead of now, would the reaction been as big? Is the reaction to Blizzard's fuck up magnified by the NBA fuck up and the South Park episode?
There's been a cumulative effect, due to a combination of the left-wing being appalled at the Hong Kong stuff and Uighur genocide, and right-wingers being whipped up to be anti-China by Trump. This is giving a rare issue where just about everyone's in agreement, though for different reasons.

Blizzard overplaying their hand woke people up, and the NBA having issues will push this beyond gaming. This is already the biggest gaming dust-up in years, and I suspect it might end up having a similar effect outside of gaming.
 

Robioto

Member
May 18, 2018
1,080
Exeter, UK
I've asked them to close my battlenet account and delete all my details. This is really bad. Add to that, they made loot boxes mainstream in full priced games with Overwatch and thier greed last year to alienate thier fanbase by having the nerve to reveal a pay to win mobile game. They were not in my good books anyway.

As a gamer they are doing everything I stand against. So I choose to vote with my wallet.
 

Serpens007

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,107
I am not familiar with the case you mention here. But two wrongs don't make it right. We should fight all instances of it, ESPECIALLY if it comes from our home turf.

There are limits to what I accept though. I don't think threaths or hate towards individuals or groups of individuals are ok. "Free Hong Kong" is not hate speech though.

Oh, I would like it if you explained why EU is the same as China in this regard. EU can be counted as a major power right? We do not censor people for speaking out against government.
That was kind of my point. The Hong Kong and every Chinese thing going on is exacerbated by a larger conflict taking place. If it was just human rights, then there would be a whole lot more going on in those other instances of fight as you mention.

If you want my opinion on the EU in this regard of world conflicts, I think that the reason behind the now new problem between the US and the EU is partially thanks to the fact that there are intentions of getting the EU closer to Russia than the US. Macron, of all people, as stated this. The USA is not the best ally right now and god knows where the country is headed. The EU also doesn't want more Chinese influence, but above all, wants to protect themselves.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,398
I've asked them to close my battlenet account and delete all my details. This is really bad. Add to that, they made loot boxes mainstream in full priced games with Overwatch and thier greed last year to alienate thier fanbase by having the nerve to reveal a pay to win mobile game. They were not in my good books anyway.

As a gamer they are doing everything I stand against. So I choose to vote with my wallet.
The pro-China oppression astroturfing on reddit has been out of control. The propaganda arm is in full effect. It runs the gamut from concern trolling for other causes to derail discussion to outright saying the gov't of China is good and just wants the best for everyone. The good thing is that people recognize it and aren't buyin' it.

If Blizzard doesn't comment today I will delete my account also. I've been hesitant because I thought cooler heads might prevail and that they would come out with the right decisions but lordy if they still don't comment rip Blizzard.
 

Greenpaint

Member
Oct 30, 2017
555
That was kind of my point. The Hong Kong and every Chinese thing going on is exacerbated by a larger conflict taking place. If it was just human rights, then there would be a whole lot more going on in those other instances of fight as you mention.

If you want my opinion on the EU in this regard of world conflicts, I think that the reason behind the now new problem between the US and the EU is partially thanks to the fact that there are intentions of getting the EU closer to Russia than the US. Macron, of all people, as stated this. The USA is not the best ally right now and god knows where the country is headed. The EU also doesn't want more Chinese influence, but above all, wants to protect themselves.
If you mean every major power protects their interests, I can agree on that. I think the big difference is the methodology. EU is not willing to compromise rights of individuals to protect government integrity. China is not willing to compromise government integrity to protect rights of individuals.

I see Chinas approach as a bad long term strategy. If people are afraid of their own well being being compromised, they will never criticise government. If you can't criticise, you can't improve since people or groups of people tend to be blind to their own flaws and mistakes. If you don't improve, you will stagnate. And then it's only a matter of time until government starts being a detrimental force to country. That's why governments should never be immune to criticism.
 

Jam_Sandwich

Member
Oct 30, 2017
875
Made a GDPR request the other day.
I expected a quick turn around and an automated email.

I haven't though which suggests to me it's some work on there end.

I'd recommend it for anyone who hasn't and in the EU as another avenue of protest
 

Mr_Moogle

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,303
I wonder how this will affect the upcoming Blizzcon next month...
Tbh even if all this China stuff wasn't happening right now, I still think they would have scrapped the Q&A part of the show. Last year they couldn't even handle a few fans questioning their mobile strategy without embrassing themselves. It was as funny as it was pathetic.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,813
even allowing people to do it is taking a stance, or at least it is for the chinese govt given how they react around this kind of matters
So basically, they were forced to take a stance between profit and human rights, did so and are now rightly condemned for the stance they took. Hopefully their choice will lead to lowered profits too.
 

Haee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,845
I'm more disappointed in Giantbomb.

On their podcast it felt like non of them really wanted to talk about it and all that was said was some middle of the road bullshit. Basically corporations gonna be corporations.

They didn't come down against Blizzard at all. It felt spineless and kind of pathetic to be honest.
Same for Vinny Vinesauce. Really disappointed on him touching the subject (which he has tendency to avoid politics) and simply go "I don't have an hour to collect all informations to make an well-informed thought, I'm just sick of hearing about this everywhere."

Even though you probably need like 5 minutes of your time to understand what's going on.
 

LoFiLoon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
471
Minneapolis, Minnesota
I'm more disappointed in Giantbomb.

On their podcast it felt like non of them really wanted to talk about it and all that was said was some middle of the road bullshit. Basically corporations gonna be corporations.

They didn't come down against Blizzard at all. It felt spineless and kind of pathetic to be honest.
That's pretty bad. They spend a lot of time roasting several companies on their podcast yet the just walk past this issue. Hell, wasn't their whole website founded because of screwed up business practices?
 

Serpens007

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,107
If you mean every major power protects their interests, I can agree on that. I think the big difference is the methodology. EU is not willing to compromise rights of individuals to protect government integrity. China is not willing to compromise government integrity to protect rights of individuals.

I see Chinas approach as a bad long term strategy. If people are afraid of their own well being being compromised, they will never criticise government. If you can't criticise, you can't improve since people or groups of people tend to be blind to their own flaws and mistakes. If you don't improve, you will stagnate. And then it's only a matter of time until government starts being a detrimental force to country. That's why governments should never be immune to criticism.
I agree, it's not good in either front. My bet is that the Chinese government is terrified not just of their people changing their minds but having outside powers getting in there. I mean, the US, as other western democracies, have been seriously damaged by outside powers via social media and the manipulation it comes from there, as proven by the 2016 elections.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,905
I'm more disappointed in Giantbomb.

On their podcast it felt like non of them really wanted to talk about it and all that was said was some middle of the road bullshit. Basically corporations gonna be corporations.

They didn't come down against Blizzard at all. It felt spineless and kind of pathetic to be honest.
I mean, Jeff was literally wearing a winnie the pooh shirt...
 

Greenpaint

Member
Oct 30, 2017
555
I agree, it's not good in either front. My bet is that the Chinese government is terrified not just of their people changing their minds but having outside powers getting in there. I mean, the US, as other western democracies, have been seriously damaged by outside powers via social media and the manipulation it comes from there, as proven by the 2016 elections.
The underlying democratic system is designed to handle this exact kind of damage. Meaning limiting the power of any single leader, because it's not a question of if there will be a compromised, dangerous, greedy, etc leader. It's a question of when such a leader arrives. As bad as 2016 elections look, countries will go on. It's a setback, but not a setback of lethal proportions. The situation will be very different in a system where government has absolute power.

The sad thing about this whole Hong Kong situation is that until this all started, nobody really questioned the 2047 Hong Kong integration deadline. It's a 100% unnecessary situation, regardless of if the actions that caused it were done in good or bad faith.
 
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Serpens007

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,107
The underlying democratic system is designed to handle this exact kind of damage. Meaning limiting the power of any single leader, because it's not a question of if there will be a compromised, dangerous, greedy, etc leader. It's a question of when such a leader arrives. As bad as 2016 elections look, countries will go on. It's a setback, but not a setback of lethal proportions. The situation will be very different in a system where government has absolute power.

The sad thing about this whole Hong Kong situation is that until this all started, nobody really questioned the 2047 Hong Kong integration deadline. It's a 100% unnecessary situation, regardless of if the actions that caused it were done in good or bad faith.
Agreed. The two systems one country thing was inevitably lead to problems.
 

Psamtik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,553
Bad-faith actors notwithstanding (and boy, they've really come out of the woodwork on this one), if this is what it takes to finally get gamers caring about social justice, so much the better.

Can't help but wonder how many of the people currently lighting their hair on fire knew anything about the HK protests 72 hours ago, but I'm willing to hold out hope that this is about more than just dunking on Blizzard.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,563
Tokyo
Hey can anyone verify if Blizzard actually made this state mate? People are saying they said this as an apology to China. If this is true, woah boy...

 

MrNelson

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,590
Tampa, FL
Hey can anyone verify if Blizzard actually made this state mate? People are saying they said this as an apology to China. If this is true, woah boy...

Yep


But on Chinese microblogging site Weibo, the official account of Hearthstone reposted Blizzard’s statement in Chinese -- with a significant change. “We will, as always, resolutely safeguard the country’s dignity,” it added.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,563
Tokyo

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,398
Bad-faith actors notwithstanding (and boy, they've really come out of the woodwork on this one), if this is what it takes to finally get gamers caring about social justice, so much the better.

Can't help but wonder how many of the people currently lighting their hair on fire knew anything about the HK protests 72 hours ago, but I'm willing to hold out hope that this is about more than just dunking on Blizzard.
We won't know how long this one incident will garner attention as gamers, just like everyone else, have short attention spans. The difference here is that the atrocities and censorship in China and there efforts to export it to the west will inevitably worsen. So what we will see is more and more instances like this and then eventually there will be a straw that breaks the camel's back.

Previous gamer outrage has been levied at egregious mtx and the like which these companies usually just backtrack and then people move on. This is a problem that will only get worse as China is becoming more and more brazen.
 
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