Blizzard's Long History of Manic Pixie Nightmare Girls and Fear of Women

VPplaya · Feb 14, 2020

This article seems to be stretching things a bit in my opinion. Regarding Jaina, I fail to see how she fits into the trope that the author is trying to make. Her character arc has been one of the most fleshed out stories in WoW for quite some time. While people can complain and criticize her actions in Legion, I also fully believe people would have complained had Blizz rugsweeped her character if she just forgave and allowed the two factions to work together to fight the demons.

As a Horde player, Sylvanas is a totally different story. But I would not lump her and Jaina together.

PlanetSmasher · Feb 14, 2020

ChippyTurtle said:
Isn't Jaina somewhat understandable in that her city was destroyed? I hate Blizzard's storytelling but i can't particularly disagree with that change.

Wasn't that her own racist-ass asshole father's fault, though?

ChippyTurtle · Feb 15, 2020

PlanetSmasher said:
Wasn't that her own racist-ass asshole father's fault, though?

We are referring to the events during the MoP expansion? https://wow.gamepedia.com/Jaina_Proudmoore#Jaina_Proudmoore:_Tides_of_War

Zed · Feb 15, 2020

PlanetSmasher said:
Wasn't that her own racist-ass asshole father's fault, though?

Her father died before World of Warcraft. Theramore was destroyed by Garrosh's mana nuke well after her father died.

I also agree with the other posters that Jaina's story is probably one of the few good examples of Blizzard fleshing out a character over a long period of time. Jaina started out as someone who always gave people the benefit of the doubt in hopes of peace, but over time as the Horde constantly back stabbed and/or attacked the Alliance she became more jaded until there was a miscommunication between a joint Alliance/Horde assault against the Burning Legion which made it appear like the Horde on purposely left the Alliance to die.

Compare that to someone like Illidan who was an anti-hero in WC3 but suddently became a Saturday morning cartoon villain in the Burning Crusade (his actions in BC has since been retconned)

sora87 · Feb 15, 2020

They sure did Slyvanas dirty

fireflame · Feb 15, 2020

Yuntu said:
I think only Diablo doesn't have one of these. Unless I forgot a character or D4 is about to change that.

I didnot feel convinced by the Adria Twist honeslty.. No torture but it would be the trope or the woman with inappropriate love for an evil being.

Deleted member 11413 · Feb 15, 2020

Moirayn said:
This is true of a lot of the female characters, but this is something that feels like it also applies to characters like Arthas & Illidan to an extent.

It definitely applies to Arthas/Illidan. It's really just Blizzard's default villain origin story.

marimo · Feb 15, 2020

Wowfunhappy said:
So, the fact that this type of backstory is seemingly only applied to female villains is kinda problematic.

But... idk, is the trope itself problematic? I think the idea that a villain started out with good intentions, but other people turned them into monsters, is a much more interesting backstory for anyone of any gender, and—for the most part—also more realistic.

The problematic part for me is that, for this type of female villain, their transformation often happens against their will and involves some kind of bodily violation. There are fallen male characters but usually they have more agency, choosing to corrupt themselves as a tradeoff for more power. One is a noble sacrifice while the other is a trauma.

disclaimer: I'm not a Blizzard lore expert but I've played a good number of their games

GiantEnemyCrab · Feb 15, 2020

On the other hand, I don't think the male characters in Blizzard games are exactly well written or multi-dimensional either.

Aexact · Feb 15, 2020

I'm having trouble nailing down what the trope is supposed to be. The article does a lot to retell the stories of the three chosen examples, Kerrigan, Sylvanas and Widowmaker, but I'm skeptical that the instances cited add up to form a new type of trope. It feels very stream of conscious, like when it states that there are silly reasons why they're all hot which feels like a much wider issue than the one they're trying to argue. Is the thesis that they all suffered and became evil and the problem is the loss of agency because becoming evil was an inevitable outcome of suffering for this female trope?

Zed · Feb 15, 2020

marimo said:
The problematic part for me is that, for this type of female villain, their transformation often happens against their will and involves some kind of bodily violation. There are fallen male characters but usually they have more agency, choosing to corrupt themselves as a tradeoff for more power. One is a noble sacrifice while the other is a trauma.

Blizzard has transformed important male characters with unwilling mutilation and torture. Bolvar Fordragon comes to mind.

First he is gets poisoned and then is permanently lit on fire against his will:

Then he is later tortured by the Arthas (the same person who tortured Sylvanas ): (The cutscene is kind of awkward since it is a vision that happens during a boss fight)

Bolvar never becomes a villain but he does unwilling loses his "humanity" and that is why is he is able to become the Jailer of the Damned.

Shelbyville Milhouse · Feb 15, 2020

Is this actually a problem tho?
Obviously Blizzard likes this trope but the characters themselves are rather iconic for people who play those games, so is this really a problem?
They are only badly written in the way most Blizzard characters are badly written.

Dark Ninja · Feb 15, 2020

When's Mei gonna get tortured. I wish they would have killed her off in that Overwatch 2 cinematic. Cmon Blizzard writers give me a canon reason to hate her.

AStrangerIsHere · Feb 15, 2020

BDS said:
Blizzard reuses a lot of character and plot tropes in their games.

I think so too. One day I was telling one of my friend that the "good guys", or the more apt at evolving, in Blizzard games are always the group that come from the patchwork group, like the Horde for example in Warcraft or just the humans in Diablo. And that it was reminiscing of the US history, a bunch of people coming from different horizons, becoming the less "bad" group, existing by opposition of the older and stricter groups. There's always an old community, like the Alliance, the Protoss or the Angels, which feels like Europe.

Acidote · Feb 15, 2020

This is just Blizzard reusing stuff over and over again. Because that backstory has been used with a few more characters that are not female.

Please someone count how many time did a character "went crazy/corrupted/tortured until gone crazy" to justify them becoming villains, instead of developing a different, more worked, story around it.

Weltall Zero · Feb 18, 2020

elenarie said:
"Kerrigan was taken from her family"

She was a murderous assassin already. And she did not get tortured. 🤷

I'd say being incapacitated by zerglings, then shoved inside a coccoon and forcefully mutated / brainwashed into a human / zerg hybrid counts as torture...

Zed said:
Blizzard has transformed important male characters with unwilling mutilation and torture. Bolvar Fordragon comes to mind.

First he is gets poisoned and then is permanently lit on fire against his will:

Then he is later tortured by the Arthas (the same person who tortured Sylvanas ): (The cutscene is kind of awkward since it is a vision that happens during a boss fight)

Bolvar never becomes a villain but he does unwilling loses his "humanity" and that is why is he is able to become the Jailer of the Damned.

That kind of reinforces some of the points of the article, though. Men are capable of enduring torture and dehumanization and remain heroes, women break and become villains. As mentioned, Arthas is probably the better counterexample, being closer in his trajectory to the female examples.

Fantastapotamus said:
Is this actually a problem tho?
Obviously Blizzard likes this trope but the characters themselves are rather iconic for people who play those games, so is this really a problem?

I'm a bit confused. Is your argument "beloved characters can't be problematic", or am I missing something obvious...?

Shelbyville Milhouse · Feb 18, 2020

Weltall Zero said:
I'm a bit confused. Is your argument "beloved characters can't be problematic"

No?

Weltall Zero · Feb 18, 2020

Fantastapotamus said:
No?

OK, so... what is it?

Primal Sage · Feb 18, 2020

While Widdowmaker fits the description by the author, Sombra and Ashe do not. There are even long range fighters like Pharra and the old Sniper lady who don't turn evil.

The article is thin.

Mentalist · Feb 18, 2020

Andariel, the Act 1 boss of Diablo 2 literally reuses Kerrigan's model-including the super-Sayan hair and the spiky tentacles from the back.

Arthas' arc is identical to Kerrigan's. And Sylvanas' arc in Frozen throne mirrors Arthas'

Blizzard recycles tropes and ideas across IPs; news at 11.

if you look at the pre-WOW lore, Illidan is the only "misguided villain" of the bunch- his "crime" was to preserve a sample of the original Well of Magic and create a new Well of Eternity after Azhara's Kingdom was destroyed following the 1st legion invasion.

Edit: let's not forget, the Terran Confederacy assassinated Arcturus' father and his entire life family, and then nuked Korhal, turning it into a desert.

Maledict · Feb 18, 2020

Moirayn said:
This is true of a lot of the female characters, but this is something that feels like it also applies to characters like Arthas & Illidan to an extent.

You're missing one of the fundamental points of the article.

Female villains are created by a traumatic event happening *to* them - they have no agency. Violence and torture is inflicted on them, resulting in them becoming twisted and evil (and purple!).

Both Illidan and Arthas chose their fates. Violence was not done to them - they did it to theirselves.

(there's multiple layers to that. Only men have agency - women are the result of things done to them. Women start off as intrinsically pure and good ((light skinned!)) and then become purple and evil when violated)etc etc

Sera · Feb 18, 2020

Weltall Zero said:
OK, so... what is it?

woman are sick of seeing female characters "having to be broken" to be a villain (and that villainess character also fulfills sexy fanservice)
Its boring, repetitive & tiresome
why can't she just be a static asshole? why the tragic backstory, every time? Why does she need to be "broken" to be sympathetic (pity)? Does she need to be sympathetic (pity) to be compelling as a villain?

Blizzard is definitely getting better a long these lines, mainly with Symmetra
but on release Widow Maker was super yikes

Maledict said:
You're missing one of the fundamental points of the article.

Female villains are created by a traumatic event happening *to* them - they have no agency. Violence and torture is inflicted on them, resulting in them becoming twisted and evil (and purple!).

Both Illidan and Arthas chose their fates. Violence was not done to them - they did it to theirselves.

(there's multiple layers to that. Only men have agency - women are the result of things done to them. Women start off as intrinsically pure and good ((light skinned!)) and then become purple and evil when violated)etc etc

This stuff too

Weltall Zero · Feb 18, 2020

Sera said:
woman are sick of seeing female characters "having to be broken" to be a villain (and that villainess character also fulfills sexy fanservice)
Its boring, repetitive & tiresome
why can't she just be a static asshole? why the tragic backstory, every time? Why does she need to be "broken" to be sympathetic? Does she need to be sympathetic to be compelling as a villain?

Blizzard is definitely getting better a long these lines, mainly with Symmetra
but on release Widow Maker was super yikes

Follow the chain of replies, I'm asking Fantastapotamus what his argument is (because it seems to be "these characters are popular, so it's OK"). The article itself is plenty clear and I pretty much agree with it.

Sera · Feb 18, 2020

Weltall Zero said:
Follow the chain of replies, I'm asking Fantastapotamus what his argument is (because it seems to be "these characters are popular, so it's OK"). The article itself is plenty clear and I pretty much agree with it.

fair enough

Gold Arsene · Feb 18, 2020

It doesn't necessarily bug me but I always found it kinda odd that until Moira Overwatche's only "white" villain is the one not turned evil of her own will.(I haven't kept u with Overwatch lore so forgive me if I missed a retcon.)

Deleted member 49438 · Feb 18, 2020

Maledict said:
You're missing one of the fundamental points of the article.

Female villains are created by a traumatic event happening *to* them - they have no agency. Violence and torture is inflicted on them, resulting in them becoming twisted and evil (and purple!).

Both Illidan and Arthas chose their fates. Violence was not done to them - they did it to theirselves.

(there's multiple layers to that. Only men have agency - women are the result of things done to them. Women start off as intrinsically pure and good ((light skinned!)) and then become purple and evil when violated)etc etc

Totally fair point. Whereas Arthas & Illidan are corrupted/influenced by Frostmourne & Xavius respectively (and Arthas ultimately loses his agency) they had both kind of started down that path already to an extent. Whereas the women definitely had the traumatic experience that *transforms them* into something evil.

Finaj · Feb 18, 2020

A big problem with Blizzard villains (especially when it comes to Warcraft) is a lot of villains are "corrupted" and have very little agency to be doing what they're doing.

Strangely enough, Sylvanas seems to have her own agency (in that no one appears to be controlling/ordering her) but we know very little of why she has made the decisions she has (besides bad writing).

echoshifting · Feb 18, 2020

Finaj said:
A big problem with Blizzard villains (especially when it comes to Warcraft) is a lot of villains are "corrupted" and have very little agency to be doing what they're doing.

Strangely enough, Sylvanas seems to have her own agency (in that no one appears to be controlling/ordering her) but we know very little of why she has made the decisions she has (besides bad writing).

You can probably trace Blizzard's fascination with corruption back to Games Workshop and Warhammer, which they've always liberally drawn inspiration from. Corruption is a big deal in those settings.

That said. The problem here, as others are pointing out, is really the lack of agency involved when female characters are corrupted, not the corruption itself. Like Sylvanas had no agency when she was first turned into a banshee.

Ryuelli · Feb 18, 2020

dlauv said:
I get that Blizzard is a problematic punching bag lately, but this seems like a stretch for woke points - or a school assignment.

This is what I thought too. There's PLENTY of female Blizzard characters who don't match this weird definition.

Maledict · Feb 19, 2020

Ryuelli said:
This is what I thought too. There's PLENTY of female Blizzard characters who don't match this weird definition.

The article is talking about their main characters. Kerrigan was literally(and unfortunately!) the entire point of the Starcraft storyline across all the games. Sylvanas has been the main female character in terms of WoWs narrative for a long time - and ultimately the only difference between her and Jaina for a long time was that she was purple. Jains was another female character who has something traumatic and violent happen to them which made her go crazy and vengeful. And for Overwatch whilst there is a wider and more varied cast, Widowmaker is clearly the most shown 'evil' female character in press and publicity.

The article is talking about the main characters whom the stories revolve around. Not the more interesting side characters like Liandrin, the but characters whom blizzard invests the time and money and puts centre piece of their storytelling efforts.

Death Penalty · Feb 19, 2020

Yeah, the "female character unwillingly (usually torturously) converted to evil" fits into Diablo as well, with Lea, even if not as neatly. There's something oddly fetishistic about it, and I don't like how it almost always starts by eroding that characters' will and twisting them unrecognizably. This wouldn't be such a problem necessarily. As others have pointed out, there are lots of male Blizzard characters that go through this arc. But there are also plenty of male villains that are just assholes, and lots of male heroes that don't experience this arc, where it feels like their are fewer and fewer main female Blizzard characters that don't go off the deep end and there are even fewer female villains that aren't tragically broken.

I have hopes for Lilith in Diablo IV, but they unfortunately aren't high hopes...

dskzero · Feb 19, 2020

Metroidvania said:
(There's also the underlying principle of Lea being subsumed and degraded by Diablo, but it doesn't fit quite as neatly as Kerrigan, Widow, or Sylvanas)

Did that happen in any way besides being the body Diablo uses to manifest? I can't remember it.

As for the article, I think the writer needs to read up on what's a maniac pixie girl. Is Blizzard just using the same tropes over and over again? Yes, but none of those characters are manic pixie girls in any form previous to their transformation. Hell, Sylvanas is a strong, resourceful military leader, and Kerrigan is a super efficient scout/sniper.

Linus815 · Feb 19, 2020

blizzard writing in general has always relied on edgy tropes and they reuse the same shit over and over. it doesnt just apply to their female characters.

Blizzard's Long History of Manic Pixie Nightmare Girls and Fear of Women

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