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Bloodborne |OT| Grant them eyes

Oct 27, 2017
568
Thank you, Noema ! Yes -- I feel like as much praise as the Soulsborne games get, there are still aspects of it that people keep missing; particularly, developers often seem to think that it is the combat or the "fair difficulty" of these games that make them stand out; but there are so many more sides to these games, prime amongst which is their coherency. This kind of metatextual coherency is probably my favourite quality in any type of work; I really hope that more developers will be inspired by it.

Yeah that's the diegetic. Nier Automata does it even more better than the souls series, imo. You should look at it. And I agree it's one of the greatest strength of the series.
 
Jan 17, 2018
1,362
Mexico CIty
Oh boy, the first comment to Elodes 's thread is "Baldur in GoW is better because it's more cinematic and requires no skill".



I mean, opinions, right? De gustibus non est disputandom and all that.I think I'm saving the post to a Google Doc and staying away from the thread.
 
Oct 27, 2017
568
Oh boy, the first comment to Elodes 's thread is "Baldur in GoW is better because it's more cinematic and requires no skill".



I mean, opinions, right? De gustibus non est disputandom and all that.I think I'm saving the post to a Google Doc and staying away from the thread.
Yeah this forum did not deserve such a good OP.
 
Oct 27, 2017
492
Oookaaay, so I got murderized by some guy carrying a sack who practically one shot me, even at level 31. I woke up in some new prison/town, which was unexpected. I cleared that place out (headphones + pigs = bad time) and I found a really neat mace that does electrical damage.

I only have enough shards though to upgrade either my +3 axe or the +3 electric mace further... any advice?

Side note: the music in this zone is terrific!
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,639
UK
Oookaaay, so I got murderized by some guy carrying a sack who practically one shot me, even at level 31. I woke up in some new prison/town, which was unexpected. I cleared that place out (headphones + pigs = bad time) and I found a really neat mace that does electrical damage.

I only have enough shards though to upgrade either my +3 axe or the +3 electric mace further... any advice?

Side note: the music in this zone is terrific!
You can farm more shards if you want to play around with both weapons. I would stick with your original as it's purely physical damage where as the tonitrus is split damage, but the sack guy enemies drop shards and twin shards, so you could upgrade both weapons.
 

Elodes

Looks to the Moon
Member
Nov 1, 2017
642
The Netherlands
Oh boy, the first comment to Elodes 's thread is "Baldur in GoW is better because it's more cinematic and requires no skill".



I mean, opinions, right? De gustibus non est disputandom and all that.I think I'm saving the post to a Google Doc and staying away from the thread.
Ahahaha. That was partially my fault, actually; I'd originally titled the thread "Let's discuss the best boss fight of this gen."

That doesn't mean it's not a painfully simple first post, but mine was a bad title, and the thread as a whole got a lot better after the title was changed at my request.
 

Elodes

Looks to the Moon
Member
Nov 1, 2017
642
The Netherlands
More on-topic: I defeated Ludwig today! Hell of a boss; just absolutely incredible. I really had to break through some distinct skill ceilings over the course of ~forty tries in order to defeat him. What a great experience.

Now on to Lady Maria!
 
Jan 17, 2018
1,362
Mexico CIty
Ahahaha. That was partially my fault, actually; I'd originally titled the thread "Let's discuss the best boss fight of this gen."

That doesn't mean it's not a painfully simple first post, but mine was a bad title, and the thread as a whole got a lot better after the title was changed at my request.
It's also kinda baffling that someone would bring up Baldur of all bosses, even in GoW. I'm not crazy about GoW 2018, but the Valkyries put up a hell of a fight on harder difficulties and I think that Sigrun, the Valkyrie queen, is one of the better bosses outside the From games that I've seen. Specially because her move set is the sum of all the other 8 Valkyries you have to beat before facing her. She's hard as nails in Give me a Challenge (took me about 100 tries I reckon) but it feels fair.

Baldur on the other hand...eh, beat him on my first try, haven't given that fight any thought since. It's just cinematic AAA noise to me.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,995
More on-topic: I defeated Ludwig today! Hell of a boss; just absolutely incredible. I really had to break through some distinct skill ceilings over the course of ~forty tries in order to defeat him. What a great experience.

Now on to Lady Maria!
Oh cool - she's probably my favourite. Really interested to hear what you think about her and how her boss fight shows up her lore as well. She's not a difficult fight if you've got parrying down, but the way it is set up is great.
 

Elodes

Looks to the Moon
Member
Nov 1, 2017
642
The Netherlands
Oh cool - she's probably my favourite. Really interested to hear what you think about her and how her boss fight shows up her lore as well. She's not a difficult fight if you've got parrying down, but the way it is set up is great.
I'll be honest with you -- I feel like I'm missing out on a lot of the context for her character here! There are patients who she was a caretaker (of sorts) for, but they seem to be failures, medically speaking; and she was a corpse, but now she's alive again? I've deliberately forgotten a lot of the stuff Night_Knight mentioned in his thread on Lady Maria, but I'll definitely give it an in-depth read after I'm done with the DLC, because I don't think I'm quite picking up what the game is laying down here!

Her fight is great, though. On one hand, after struggling so much with Ludwig, it's a bit disappointing that she and I seem to be matched in skill almost perfectly; within five tries I can reliably get her to very low health. On the other hand, that kind of match makes the fight feel really, really cool. It's such a cinematic moment in many ways, but deeply mechanical, too; absolutely a highlight. Plus her style is too cool. I can see why she is so beloved!

Edit: And she's slain! What a great boss fight.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
4,361
Lady Maria is fantastic because she proves that having a bonfire/lantern outside the boss door isn't some horrible thing that magically makes the game/boss too easy.

That being said, I played with the Threaded Cane, which can basically stun lock her. So the fight was pretty damn easy for me, and I got it within 5 attempts.
 

Elodes

Looks to the Moon
Member
Nov 1, 2017
642
The Netherlands
Lady Maria is fantastic because she proves that having a bonfire/lantern outside the boss door isn't some horrible thing that magically makes the game/boss too easy.

That being said, I played with the Threaded Cane, which can basically stun lock her. So the fight was pretty damn easy for me, and I got it within 5 attempts.
I had the same with Ludwig's Holy Blade. I really wonder what her fight is like with a weapon that can't stunlock her easily! Should be pretty fun.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,361
I had the same with Ludwig's Holy Blade. I really wonder what her fight is like with a weapon that can't stunlock her easily! Should be pretty fun.
I was going through the game a second time with the Stake Driver, but I only got to just getting it basically, so in Old Yharnam. I have a feeling it'll be a lot tougher with that.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,361
Good pick, Stake Driver is a ton of fun. Enjoy your replay!
I was also doing a 3 player co-op run through with friends, which completely kills the difficulty (especially since I hopped into the DLC straight after Amelia to get a +8 Kirkhammer lol), but I'll be damned if just wailing on bosses isn't satisfying as hell.
 
Jul 3, 2018
59
I've fallen in love with this game I didn't really expect to like. It's my first souls game and I usually don't really like tough games (and hate boss fights), but this game is really, really good. So far I've beaten Cleric Beast, Father G, Blood-Starved Beast, Witches of Hemwick and Vicar Amelia. Right now I'm making my way through the Forbidden Woods.

Some impressions:
  • The game makes a terrible first impression. Not because of the very hard opening area (that's fine I guess), but because you have to read a lot of notes in order to learn the controls and the way things work. I still think the skill menus are pretty overwhelming.
  • I was pretty scared when I ran into BSB because I read a lot of people found him very hard. I beat him in the second attempt. Vicar Amelia on the other hand took me about 10 or 15 attempts. BSB just matched my playing style I guess.
  • Level design is amazing.
  • Music and sound design are amazing as well. Unfortunately, the audio engine is not. Directional audio isn't great, sound FX (like growling monsters) go through walls way too loud and there's no echoes in indoor areas.
  • It's pretty disappointing that there's no (facial) animations when an NPC is talking. All other animations are great, but when an NPC is talking it feels like I'm playing a game from years back.
  • Coming from TW3 it's a relief to play a game with such responsive controls. They really nailed that and I might say the controls and level design are the main reasons this game is so good.
So far I've only been playing with the saw cleaver. I find it hard to compare weapons because the saw cleaver is at +5 and new weapons deal way less damage. I don't want to upgrade a weapon I'm not going to use. Any advice on how to compare weapons?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,996
Ontario
All weapons are good in this game, but you can only upgrade so many. If you're feeling the Saw Cleaver, stick to it. I went through most of the game with the starter axe... until I found the Whirlygig Saw that is.

If you just want to try out some weapons to see if you like it, go back to Central Yharnam and try them out. Enemies don't scale, so you'll find that those enemies are a cakewalk now, comparatively.
 
Jul 3, 2018
59
Thanks, it's a good idea to go back to the streets of Central Yharnam. I'm still struggling to beat Executioners, so I can try to get that one down with a different weapon each time. Great way to practice parrying, I'm stil bad at it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,996
Ontario
Central Yharnam is also a decent place to farm for vials. The giants usually drop two, and the two wolves at the bridge usually drop 3. There are better places to farm them, but I don't think you're far enough.
 
Jul 3, 2018
59
Yes to farm vials I usually start on the bridge, kill the brick troll, wolves, enter the house, go to the two brick giants under the bridge and make my way back to the Central Yharnam lamp. I still hate fighting those two wolves though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,996
Ontario
Yes to farm vials I usually start on the bridge, kill the brick troll, wolves, enter the house, go to the two brick giants under the bridge and make my way back to the Central Yharnam lamp. I still hate fighting those two wolves though.
The wolves can't get in the house. So walk up to them to aggro them, turn around and run down the stairs into the house, kill the two guys inside, and then the wolves should be at the bottom of the stairs, waiting to get killed. They will still attack, but it's much less of an issue now.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,996
Ontario
So I'm dumb. I wanted more "Souls-like" action, but the only game that I "own" that's similar to it is Lords of the Fallen, a game I got for PS+ many months ago. I actually tried it before I played Bloodborne, and I couldn't even make it past the final boss. Replaying it, I easily got through the boss, but the game is pretty damn boring in comparison. I expected this, but it's really dull. The environments are generic, the enemies are pretty lame, rolls are super fucking slow, as is the use of any weapon that isn't light. No joke, the "quick" attack for some of the heavier weapons take a good 3-4 seconds to swing.

The worst thing is that all the bosses I've run into are tall armored dudes. In Bloodborne you get giant beasts, hunters of all types, "great one" monstrosities, all completely unique and exciting. In Lords of the Fallen, it's been all "tall dude with shield and sword" over and over. They have different attacks, mind you, but still.

I guess I'll have to pick up DS3. I said I wouldn't buy any more games for the rest of the year, but oh well.
 
Nov 2, 2017
850
I've only fought Paarl thrice, and I'm already flustered. I could really use some input.

At least with all the other bosses I've faced, even when I'm getting my butt kicked, I can see where openings are and the vague outline of a strategy. Not so with Paarl. I can't stagger him. I get hit after rolling to his side. I've tried rolling under his belly but get swiped or trapped in a bad position. I'm constantly fighting the camera, and miss hits too frequently when I unlock it. If I get too far away he'll do his long jump and swipe me. And if I am in a decent position I'll get trapped in his lightning explosion.

I've got to say, my enjoyment has greatly diminished with Hypogean Gaol. I hate this section. Hate it. It's not just Paarl. It's the goddamn two-hit snatchers. The two pigs. Mortal danger at every corner, all brought to life with a super creepy score.

I'm really hoping this section is an aberration and the subsequent sections are a return to prior glory.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,995
I've only fought Paarl thrice, and I'm already flustered. I could really use some input.

At least with all the other bosses I've faced, even when I'm getting my butt kicked, I can see where openings are and the vague outline of a strategy. Not so with Paarl. I can't stagger him. I get hit after rolling to his side. I've tried rolling under his belly but get swiped or trapped in a bad position. I'm constantly fighting the camera, and miss hits too frequently when I unlock it. If I get too far away he'll do his long jump and swipe me. And if I am in a decent position I'll get trapped in his lightning explosion.

I've got to say, my enjoyment has greatly diminished with Hypogean Gaol. I hate this section. Hate it. It's not just Paarl. It's the goddamn two-hit snatchers. The two pigs. Mortal danger at every corner, all brought to life with a super creepy score.

I'm really hoping this section is an aberration and the subsequent sections are a return to prior glory.
Hypogean Gaol was a nightmare for me as well - if you get bagged and tagged into it just after beating BSB then you can be pretty weak and the enemies are quite tough. It's worth it to make some suicide runs and meet an NPC but it can be quite hard throughout - I spent a few too many tries once I got the lamp just being destroyed by the very first bag snatcher.

Paarl - once you've got him into a pattern can be quite easy but hitting that pattern is difficult. The first thing is that it's best to be aggressive. You should try and aim for his legs, as if you can do enough damage to one, he'll stumble and you can start hitting his face (I think it's a visceral but can't remember exactly). Get in front of him (about middle distance) and bait his swipes - I think he usually does three. Get in/under his legs but (classic souls advice) don't get greedy. Do a couple of hits, don't lock on and then get out again. Repeat. If you get confident, you can roll through his AOE - you should be able to do a couple of hits after that!

Once he's powered up, watch for him discharging his electrical field. Once he's done that he will always try to back away from you and recharge. Be super aggressive at this point - chase him, hit him and he won't recharge.

Hope that helps!
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,639
UK
You can come back and do Paarl later if you're having trouble, he is an optional boss. I used to always leave him to a bit later, you can feel a bit underpowered if you take him on as soon as you get to Hypogeon Gaol. Don't come back too late though as he'll be Pinwheel level easy if your weapon is fully upgraded etc. The camera is atrocious in this fight, a few bosses suffer from this in BB, it's really something they should've figured out by then, but alas they still haven't.

Fire paper up, pop a BB pellet and concentrate on one limb at a time.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,996
Ontario
So I borrowed Dark Souls 3 from a friend. Bloodborne was my first "Souls" experience, so this will be my first "Souls" experience with "Souls" in the title. What do I need to know?

I know that compared to Bloodborne, the game is much more defensive and that shields are actually important in this game. Anything else?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,702
Sheffield, UK
So I borrowed Dark Souls 3 from a friend. Bloodborne was my first "Souls" experience, so this will be my first "Souls" experience with "Souls" in the title. What do I need to know?

I know that compared to Bloodborne, the game is much more defensive and that shields are actually important in this game. Anything else?
Shields aren't that important and you can play it like BB if you prefer. I played DS1-3 that way and it was great. Shields are nice, but not if they engender passivity.

Just remember that you don't regen health by counterattacking.

If you you go this route you need to be more mindful of your equipment load, but DS3 is more generous than previous games. Stay below 70% max and you'll roll fast enough. You go even faster below 30% but imo it ain't worth it.
 
Jan 17, 2018
1,362
Mexico CIty
So I borrowed Dark Souls 3 from a friend. Bloodborne was my first "Souls" experience, so this will be my first "Souls" experience with "Souls" in the title. What do I need to know?

I know that compared to Bloodborne, the game is much more defensive and that shields are actually important in this game. Anything else?
DS3 is pretty similar to BB in many ways. It sorta feels the same, it looks very similar, but it's still a Souls game. Overall I'd say it's harder than BB, but if you could handle BB you'll really have no trouble with DS3.

I'd say the biggest differences would be:
  • No rallying health, and limited health items at the beginning of the game. And healing is slower compared to Bloodborne's instant 'pop' when using a Blood Vial.
  • Parrying is much more difficult and riskier. It's possible to parry a ton of stuff, but the timing with most shields is very tight and, unlike BB, you have to be at melee range to parry. Parrying is actually pretty overpowered in BB.
  • Stamina management is much more important. Stamina is important in BB, for sure, but the game is much more generous when it comes to the stamina costs of dodging and attacking.
  • Builds: DS has much more flexibility when it comes to builds, and you can create all types of characters, ranging from tanky knights, to fast, light ninjas with katanas, to pyromancers, sorcerers, or a combination thereof.

Hop over to the official SoulsEra thread and you'll get a ton of advice from people in the know there! I'm not the most experienced or best player but I sure love talking about these games, hahah.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
5,902
More on-topic: I defeated Ludwig today! Hell of a boss; just absolutely incredible. I really had to break through some distinct skill ceilings over the course of ~forty tries in order to defeat him. What a great experience.

Now on to Lady Maria!
The music, the fucking music.

I was staying over at a friend when I slayed him, I shouted in literal ecstasy and worried him deeply lol.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,902
So I borrowed Dark Souls 3 from a friend. Bloodborne was my first "Souls" experience, so this will be my first "Souls" experience with "Souls" in the title. What do I need to know?

I know that compared to Bloodborne, the game is much more defensive and that shields are actually important in this game. Anything else?
Most builds are viable (Faith builds (also magic IIRC?) come to mind as not recommended for NG). DSIII is a very linear game.

e: sorry about the double
 

Pimz

Member
Jul 3, 2018
59
Well I’m giving up for today. I really liked the challenge so far, but the shadows of Yharnham killing me with giant weapons going straight through the big tombstone feels like an unfair death. Time for a beer.
 
Oct 28, 2017
443
Well I’m giving up for today. I really liked the challenge so far, but the shadows of Yharnham killing me with giant weapons going straight through the big tombstone feels like an unfair death. Time for a beer.
Curious what weapon you are using. I used the axe and was able to dish that nonsense right back at them by basically 2 hand charge R2 through the tombstone as they walked near it.


Just finished off the Headless Bloodletting Beast. Getting close to the platinum. Beat him on maybe my 8th try or so and hilariously I did it by switching back to one handed mode with my Holy Blade instead of all the previous attempts’ 2 handed mode. Using a bolt paper, ran under him and literally spammed R1 while locked on the entire time until he died. He was almost stun locked the entire fight because I was just shredding his knees. I used a few vials in total while waiting for my stamina to recharge.
 
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Pimz

Member
Jul 3, 2018
59
Curious what weapon you are using. I used the axe and was able to dish that nonsense right back at them by basically 2 hand charge R2 through the tombstone as they walked near it.


Just finished off the Headless Bloodletting Beast. Getting close to the platinum. Beat him on maybe my 8th try or so and hilariously I did it by switching back to two handed mode with my Holy Blade instead of all the previous attempts’ 2 handed mode. Using a bolt paper, ran under him and literally spammed R1 while locked on the entire time until he died. He was almost stun locked the entire fight because I was just shredding his knees. I used a few vials in total while waiting for my stamina to recharge.
Yesterday I beat the Shadow (and I felt ecstatic). I'm using the Saw Cleaver - I'm used to it's moveset and at +6 it's still doing fine I think. I've done a few attempts on Rom and he's just as frustrating. Can't wait to dive back in.

Congrats on your slaughtered prey. Speaking of platinum, I noticed 5,6% of all players has the platinum trophy. That's a very high percentage for a trophy I reckon is very hard to get, especially considering BB has been a free PS+ game. It says a lot about how much people love this game.


Edit: one of the things that's still confusing to me is Insight. So far I've been playing solo exclusively and I bought nothing from the Insight bath messenger. If I get it right having more insight will make the game harder in some parts. But is there any advantage in having lots of insight? Should I use the Madman's Knowledge that's piled up in my inventory or just sell them for blood echoes if I don't want to play coop or summon NPC's?
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,995
Yesterday I beat the Shadow (and I felt ecstatic). I'm using the Saw Cleaver - I'm used to it's moveset and at +6 it's still doing fine I think. I've done a few attempts on Rom and he's just as frustrating. Can't wait to dive back in.

Congrats on your slaughtered prey. Speaking of platinum, I noticed 5,6% of all players has the platinum trophy. That's a very high percentage for a trophy I reckon is very hard to get, especially considering BB has been a free PS+ game. It says a lot about how much people love this game.


Edit: one of the things that's still confusing to me is Insight. So far I've been playing solo exclusively and I bought nothing from the Insight bath messenger. If I get it right having more insight will make the game harder in some parts. But is there any advantage in having lots of insight? Should I use the Madman's Knowledge that's piled up in my inventory or just sell them for blood echoes if I don't want to play coop or summon NPC's?
Insight does make the game harder - some enemies have more attacks. The main pain is the way it links up with frenzy - basically, the more insight you have, the less resistant to Frenzy you are. And Frenzy is awful. There's no real advantage to it once you've seen something around the Cathedral Ward.
 
Oct 28, 2017
443
Rom was one of those I see a lot of frustration with. I beat him on my first attempt. Ignored all the spiders ran up next to him charge R2 two handed axe once and ran away. Rinse and repeat until dead. The sweep from the axe kept the spiders away enough.

I mostly use my holy blade now but for certain situations the 2 handed axe is still unmatched for crowd control/AOE/range.


Have to start NG+ to get the Umbilical Cord ending. I think I missed the iosefka one (I know missed the fetus one) and I also popped them much earlier in the game rather than right before the fight.

On another note, Gahrman was super easy.


**got the platinum. What Souls game would you recommend tackling next? BB was my first. I do have a PS3 in case it should be Demons.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,702
So for a long time now I've kept seeing this physical box (in North America) that says "Bloodborne: The Old Hunters." Is that the game AND Old Hunters or just Old Hunters?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,995
So for a long time now I've kept seeing this physical box (in North America) that says "Bloodborne: The Old Hunters." Is that the game AND Old Hunters or just Old Hunters?
This is a bit of an odd one. In Asia there was an edition released called The Old Hunters that included the base game and Old Hunters, but as far as I can tell it wasn't released in the US. If it was the UK it might be the Game of the Year edition which is the base game and Old Hunters.

In the US it doesn't seem like there is an official bundle. My guess is it is the Asian version with both.

There was also a special Japanese version of the Old Hunters edition that comes with a soundtrack and guide.
 
Oct 27, 2017
119
UK
Got back to my original character and sunk in to NG++ last night. I played through the game on release, then through NG+ when the DLC came out, now I'm just going for one more spin. I ended up going all the way to Father Gascoigne (and the bonus bit after the chapel which ends with the weird locked door, quite impressed with the difficulty spike, and then it dawned on me that I had TOTALLY forgotten about the blood gems and I was using a new weapon. It's been, uh, a bit easier since then.

Went through Old Yarnham, cleaned out the cathedral ward and did all of Hemwick without dying, but still so much fun. It's nice to try out some of the crazy weapons - spent some time with the wheel of doom and the spooky arm hammer, though I find myself going back to the whirligig and holy blade in terms for just being so much fun to swing around. And being able to buy blood rocks with insight now is such a good change, it completely got rid of the decision paralysis I had about what to play with for my NG++ run.

Anyway... good to be back. Since my stats are pretty much plateaud now, I guess the NG++ run will steadily get harder at a decent pace.