Bloomberg: Mueller Ready to Deliver Key Findings in His Trump Probe Soon After Election, Sources Say

Caja 117

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,424
Well we've already had arrests and convictions for people directly attached to him so I don't think that is a reasonable theory.
Well they are not really part of the GOP, so they are fall guys so to speak.
Mueller/Rosenstein aren't politicians. Trump essentially declared open war on the FBI and the IC prior to taking office. I wouldn't be too worried about them secretly being on Trump's side, here.
Im thinking on the Commey angle, as I believe he is not a politician either, but what he did before election looked like a partisan decision. I do highly believe that whatever Mueller concludes its going to be the real deal, but its hard to be optimistic based on how strong Republicans protect each other.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,222
Chicago
Since Mueller's team doesn't talk, or leak, this story was sourced from officials that have an outside perspective.

I'm skeptical that there's any actual news here.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
6,461
As much as I would LOVE for turnout out in the 2018 midterms to beat turn out in the 2016 election, it's highly unlikely. And I don't think any of the evidence you cited really supports that that will be the outcome. We had primary records being broken in the 2010 midterm cycle as well, but turn out for the general was only 41%. And voter registration does not ultimately equate to voter turnout. Also, with a sample size of only 4 elections, I don't think voter registration on National Voter Registration Day is a good data set to base your claim on.

What you cite is evidence, however, of higher voter enthusiasm, and I do think turn out will be greater than usual for a midterm election. But greater than a presidential election? That would be historic. Below is a graph of voter turnout of presidential elections versus midterm elections since 1916. Even the best turnout for a midterm election (1966 - 48.7%) wasn't higher than the worst turn out for a presidential election (1924 - 48.9%).



You can find the interactive version of the graph and more data at https://www.fairvote.org/voter_turnout#voter_turnout_101

It begins.
 

OMEGALUL

Banned
Oct 10, 2018
537
The headline is kinda misleading, Mueller can only give the report to his boss Rosenstein and he only can give the report to congress.
 

PhaZe 5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,901
He may as well wait.

If the House flips, they'll be the first to review the report next year. Then the Senate, which may still be GoP controlled.

Best to get the House to impeach him, on the record, even if the Senate won't.

It'll wind up being another Bill Clinton moment - House will impeach. Senate will reject.

And nothing will change until MAYBE 2020, if enough of the voters even care. But it gives Dems a HUGE piece of ammo going into 2020.
Agreed
 

OMEGALUL

Banned
Oct 10, 2018
537
Where does the headline indicate otherwise?

Also why do we have so many usernames named after Twitch emotes? It's fucking weird!
I assumed it meant Meuller himself would present the report to congress and it makes a difference who reports it, with the reports of him wanting to resign and that thing of him joking about wearing a wire, its going to hard for Rosenstein to be taken serious at at congress. People forget Rosenstein is Boss of the probe not Meuller.
 

BlackLagoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,038
Im thinking on the Commey angle, as I believe he is not a politician either, but what he did before election looked like a partisan decision. I do highly believe that whatever Mueller concludes its going to be the real deal, but its hard to be optimistic based on how strong Republicans protect each other.
Based on the DoJ Inspector General report, it seems pretty clear the Comey was convinced partisans in the New York field office would leak the existence of the "new emails" and the resumed investigation regardless, so he decided to get out ahead of it and take the hit. Not that it worked out well, but it seems like he didn't have any good options.

The headline is kinda misleading, Mueller can only give the report to his boss Rosenstein and he only can give the report to congress.
Not quite. If Rosenstein (or his potential replacement) disagree with the special counsel on how to proceed, Mueller is obligated to deliver a full report on the matter directly to congress. It's the main "safety valve" in the special counsel statute for dealing with a thoroughly corrupt executive.
 

WhySoDevious

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,479
Can the current Congress/Senate rush impeachment hearings just to get the verdict they want (no impeachment, not guilty, what ever)?

If so, would that prevent the next Congress/Senate from having another hearing because there was already one?
 

0VERBYTE

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,411
Hopefully Mueller has some shit on some of these GOP assholes that has been aiding and abeding shit for Trump.
 

uncelestial

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,211
San Francisco, CA, USA
My prediction is an absolutely convincing case, that nothing comes of because a) people think indicting sitting presidents is legally controversial and b) conviction of a president through the impeachment process requires 2/3rd of the Senate.

The Senate will remain in GOP control. The House will flip to Dems. Trump finishes his term but loses in 2020 and the Senate flips to Dem as well.
 

Nothing Loud

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,396
It’s better that they wait to announce.

If Trump is in trouble, it will just enrage Republicans and inspire them to go the polls even more to protect their messiah.

If he’s not in trouble, it will just make Democrats look even more like they make false accusations after the Kavanaugh drama.

Just wait til after midterms
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,294
My prediction is an absolutely convincing case, that nothing comes of because a) people think indicting sitting presidents is legally controversial and b) conviction of a president through the impeachment process requires 2/3rd of the Senate.

The Senate will remain in GOP control. The House will flip to Dems. Trump finishes his term but loses in 2020 and the Senate flips to Dem as well.
Neither of those conditions would prevent something from coming of Mueller’s findings. Prevent him from being removed from office, sure, but he could still be indicted after his term is up. The Senate can’t prevent Trump from eventually getting what’s coming to him.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
6,461
Can the current Congress/Senate rush impeachment hearings just to get the verdict they want (no impeachment, not guilty, what ever)?

If so, would that prevent the next Congress/Senate from having another hearing because there was already one?
No, that would be really stupid. The very act of bringing impeachment hearings to a vote would require the sitting House speaker (Mitch McConnell) to admit that they believe the president did something worthy of impeachment.

Impeachment isn't a legal procedure, there is no burden of proof or formal trial. If they went through a Congressional impeachment "for the lulz" and it was shot down, it would never reach the Senate, and the Democratic Congress could just try again in January.
 

corasaur

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,347
No, that would be really stupid. The very act of bringing impeachment hearings to a vote would require the sitting House speaker (Mitch McConnell) to admit that they believe the president did something worthy of impeachment.

Impeachment isn't a legal procedure, there is no burden of proof or formal trial. If they went through a Congressional impeachment "for the lulz" and it was shot down, it would never reach the Senate, and the Democratic Congress could just try again in January.
Mcconnell is senate majority leader. Speaker is ryan for now. Not that it makes logistical difference here
 

Heretic

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
769
It'll be another Hillary situations where "he was careless and shouldn't have done what he did but it's not enough to take to the courts."
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,130
USA
We already got "nothing will come of this" when lots has already come from it (guilty pleas and jail time, almost certainty that more Trump goons will be indicted), and we haven't even seen the reports yet.

If you think it's gunna be a big nothing burger you haven't been paying attention to actual events that have transpired until this point.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,056
Classic political bullshit.
If you have something now, then release it now!

At the end of the day, mueler is still a republican, and will try to save tribe over country every single time.

Disappointing
We don't need Meuller to make an informed decision this late. The type of people who are waiting simply don't care in the first place. You don't need to be a democrat to be concerned about the stability and integrity of this country in this specific case. We have enough observable evidence such as the way republicans flipped their stance on Crimea at the convention.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,442
For people who still nothing is happening Manafort has been singing a full blown opera to the SC office.

 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,110
Releasing findings right after mid terms, and two years prior to next presidential election, seems like literally the worst possible time.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,130
USA
It just occurred to me, I haven't heard from Sessions nor Trump's TV lawyer for a while.
Rudy has been mysteriously quiet.
Releasing findings right after mid terms, and two years prior to next presidential election, seems like literally the worst possible time.
I think it's best to wait until after the midterms at the very least so that way there's not more fuel for the "it was a hit job to get democrats in power" fire. Seems like it would negatively impact the investigation.
 

ZackieChan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,885
Well they are not really part of the GOP, so they are fall guys so to speak.


Im thinking on the Commey angle, as I believe he is not a politician either, but what he did before election looked like a partisan decision. I do highly believe that whatever Mueller concludes its going to be the real deal, but its hard to be optimistic based on how strong Republicans protect each other.
Sounds like you've heavily researched the issues involved, evidence by your inability to even spell the principal peoples' names correctly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,381
Norman, OK
Releasing findings right after mid terms, and two years prior to next presidential election, seems like literally the worst possible time.
Depends on what the findings/recommendations are. If there's bad stuff in there about Trump, handing it directly over to (hopefully) newly elected Democratic leadership in the House seems like really good timing. Allows them to get started on hearings and/or potential impeachment proceedings right away.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,110
Depends on what the findings/recommendations are. If there's bad stuff in there about Trump, handing it directly over to (hopefully) newly elected Democratic leadership in the House seems like really good timing. Allows them to get started on hearings and/or potential impeachment proceedings right away.
Hmm, that's true. My pessimism born out of the past couple years wasn't looking at it through a lens of dems winning this fall, haha.
 

Doober

The Fallen
Jun 10, 2018
2,295
I really gotta temper my expectations here. Holding the results until after the election already seems suspect as hell, especially if Mueller has solid evidence of serious shit.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,235
I really gotta temper my expectations here. Holding the results until after the election already seems suspect as hell, especially if Mueller has solid evidence of serious shit.
and we both know if he did anything tangible republicans would cry up to the scotus if they could about how he robbed him of election before canning him.
 

Voyager

Member
Oct 27, 2017
994
I really gotta temper my expectations here. Holding the results until after the election already seems suspect as hell, especially if Mueller has solid evidence of serious shit.
Suspect as hell? Not when you want the information to be made public. Presenting it when Republicans can hide it makes no sense.
 

Dr.Acula

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,266
I really gotta temper my expectations here. Holding the results until after the election already seems suspect as hell, especially if Mueller has solid evidence of serious shit.
We all have solid evidence of serious shit. Don Jr. tweeted out his own emails about conspiring with the Russians. Trump admitted to Lester Holt that he obstructed justice. Nepotism. Emoluments. Etc.

The reason Mueller is holding things until after the election, is because when Comey DIDN'T hold an announcement related to Clinton until after the election, everyone gave him shit, CNN, Fox News, Hillary, Trump.

Trust me, if a photo of Muller smiling in a Starbucks gets published today, Republicans will call for his execution for treason over election interference tomorrow.
 

Heretic

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
769
lol you had to bring her up huh
Sorry. I'm as pessimistic as they come about this whole Mueller investigation. If I had my way, Dems would win Senate and House and leave trump as president. Impeaching gives us Pence who can rally the right because he's even more of a puppet than trump is.
 

Doober

The Fallen
Jun 10, 2018
2,295
The jaded soul in me expects it'll go something like this:

- it looks like collusion
- it smells like collusion
- but there's not enough hard evidence for a definitive call.

I'm much more curious to see what obstruction looks like, seeing how Trump's attempted to obstruct a hundred times.
 

Mariolee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,426
Even if it's fucking nothing (which with the help of Manafort and Cohen I HIGHLY doubt it) this investigation has already yielded many indictments and results so I really don't like how disparaging this thread is so far.

The full list of known indictments and plea deals in Mueller’s probe
1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, was arrested in July 2017 and pleaded guilty last October to making false statements to the FBI. He got a 14-day sentence.

2) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted on a total of 25 different counts by Mueller’s team, related mainly to his past work for Ukrainian politicians and his finances. He had two trials scheduled, and the first ended in a conviction on eight counts of financial crimes. To avert the second trial, Manafort struck a plea deal with Mueller in September 2018.

3) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February he agreed to a plea deal with Mueller’s team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

4) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, pleaded guilty last December to making false statements to the FBI.

5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller. He was sentenced to 6 months in prison and 6 months of home detention in October.

22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail and has completed his sentence.

23) Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia, was charged alongside Manafort with attempting to obstruct justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case this year.

24-35) 12 Russian GRU officers: These officers of Russia’s military intelligence service were charged with crimes related to the hacking and leaking of leading Democrats’ emails in 2016.

Finally, there are two other people Mueller initially investigated, but then handed over to others in the Justice Department to handle. Both eventually agreed to plea deals.

Michael Cohen: Trump’s former lawyer pleaded guilty to 8 counts — tax and bank charges, related to his finances and taxi business, and campaign finance violations, related to hush money payments to women who alleged affairs with Donald Trump.

Sam Patten: This Republican operative and lobbyist pleaded guilty to not registering as a foreign agent with his work for Ukrainian political bigwigs, and agreed to cooperate with the government.
Full list below including those who took plea deals.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17031772/mueller-indictments-grand-jury
 

Casualcore

Member
Jul 25, 2018
552
I had friends expecting a release a few weeks before the election, trusting Mueller to save us from the Republicans. My reply of, "Mueller is a Republican," was mostly shrugged off.
 

Extollere

Member
Oct 27, 2017
659
Somewhere
The jaded soul in me expects it'll go something like this:

- it looks like collusion
- it smells like collusion
- but there's not enough hard evidence for a definitive call.

I'm much more curious to see what obstruction looks like, seeing how Trump's attempted to obstruct a hundred times.
Don't forget the solid reporting that came out recently more or less concluding there was back channel set up for covert communication between the Trump campaign and Russia. Who knows what Manafort and other witnesses have corroborated. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that Mueller has evidence of collusion, but I think it's best to temper expectations anyways.
 

Dude Abides

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,903
I really gotta temper my expectations here. Holding the results until after the election already seems suspect as hell, especially if Mueller has solid evidence of serious shit.
DOJ policy is not to release info that might affect an election within a few months of it. Mueller is probably just following that.